Longevity Genie, 400M

DANG O_O.

I wanna be on DW now... q_q

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No you don't. Trust me.

But But But- 400mil !

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm rolling for high LP discipline genies for the windforce skill. Eruption skill at 10% chance to purge is a long shot and imo a waste of energy but you didnt ask for opinions and it's your coin so good luck.

main point of eruption fist is the mdef reduction which can be quite decent (esp. since it stacks with elemental weakness) for magic classes with no debuffs i.e. psys xD

Fissile - Archosaur wrote: »

For 400M this is not worth doing at all. As was discussed in a previous thread, if someone set out with the intent to create a 91+ LP genie with a good strategy of when to keep/ throw away genies, they would spend on average somewhere in the neighborhood of 950 to 1000 million spirit and throw away around 15,000 genies (45,000 celestones) in doing so.

400 million doesn't even cover the celestone cost of preparing a special-order 91+ genie, let alone the year of daily PV (with 4-6 runs per day) to get all that spirit.

But you are wrong in a couple of key points that make most of your math invalid.

1) DEMAND. Even a lot of diehard pkers are happy with 81-90 LP genies. When faced with the decision between anything over, say, 200mil, and a +12 refine, its a no brainer as to which comes first. Only a VERY SELECT few people who have their gear mostly done would entertain the notion of purchasing a 91+ from somebody else.

2) SUPPLY. People who set out to make a 91+ genie aren't selling. If they make a 91+, you can be damn sure they will keep it. Thus we can predict that nearly every 91+ genie for sale is coming from some very lucky, random nub. Somebody who, in all likelihood, has average gear and average knowledge of the game... knowledge that probably isn't appreciative of just how rare a 91+ genie is or how difficult it is to make one usually. Without having endgame gear and being highly experienced in pvp, it is impossible for them to begin to appreciate the difference between having 7 and 8 skills on a genie.

These two factors combined drive price a lot lower than you might expect. I've purchased three 91+ genies (technically 2, but I did a swap for a third), and I've never spent over 250mil. The supply is low but the demand is low too, because people just aren't willing to spend so much $ on genies when there are still big gear improvements to make.

Long story short?

400mil is a VERY good price.

Fissile - Archosaur wrote: »

For 400M this is not worth doing at all. As was discussed in a previous thread, if someone set out with the intent to create a 91+ LP genie with a good strategy of when to keep/ throw away genies, they would spend on average somewhere in the neighborhood of 950 to 1000 million spirit and throw away around 15,000 genies (45,000 celestones) in doing so.

400 million doesn't even cover the celestone cost of preparing a special-order 91+ genie, let alone the year of daily PV (with 4-6 runs per day) to get all that spirit.

Yeah cause spirit is valuable at our levels.

Fissile - Archosaur wrote: »

For 400M this is not worth doing at all. As was discussed in a previous thread, if someone set out with the intent to create a 91+ LP genie with a good strategy of when to keep/ throw away genies, they would spend on average somewhere in the neighborhood of 950 to 1000 million spirit and throw away around 15,000 genies (45,000 celestones) in doing so.

400 million doesn't even cover the celestone cost of preparing a special-order 91+ genie, let alone the year of daily PV (with 4-6 runs per day) to get all that spirit.

The actual chance of a 91+ genie is 1 in 6,521 (182m worth of mirages). Of course in making it you will also make around 15-20 81+ genies to sell as well.

400m for that is actually a very good deal in my opinion. I spent 75m for my 93/100 Discipline genie but that was years ago.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

The trouble is that the those mirage costs and 81+ genies assume you level up every genie to 100, which unless you have billions of sp just sitting there, isn't really an option. Realistically you should be tossing the genies with a smaller chance of making it (e.g., don't continue leveling a 1/10 genie, even though it is still possible to make it to 91/100). So the numbers Fissile gave I think are more accurate for what the costs might be if someone was going to make this genie to order. I think it'd be a really poor business to farm SP/make genies all day if you were only going to sell them for 400m.

well, it actually depends on the value of spirit/exp/cubes.
probably the best way is to farm WS which has the added benefit of badges/molds

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

It does, and I actually never really looked at exp cubes, but I suspect that it'd be far better to farm sp than buy exp cubes. Leveling up any genie that could still make it uses an obscene amount of spirit, and is really not practical. The best method that I found had similar costs to what Fissile described, where the mirage cost alone is more than 400m.. add in that large quantities of spirit can be of value as well as the time it takes to make thousands of genies.. just be a bad business lol

for the first levels, no exp loss cubes are reaaally good. not sure how much they sell for now, haven't seen a catshop with those for ages. but yeah, it's bad business, let alone requiring a LOT of clicking.

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

The actual chance of a 91+ genie is 1 in 6,521 (182m worth of mirages). Of course in making it you will also make around 15-20 81+ genies to sell as well.

400m for that is actually a very good deal in my opinion. I spent 75m for my 93/100 Discipline genie but that was years ago.

The actual spirit cost of leveling 6,521 genies (assuming your player is level 100 to minimize the imbue penalty) is 214,815,523,804. A player who is good at PV can potentially get around 2 million spirit per token. Assuming (I've never used one of the Morai tokens) the Morai tokens last the same duration, something in the neighborhood of 5 million spirit per character per day is the maximum feasibly attainable. Multiply that by 1.8 since you get about 4 times that value in XP which is worth 1/5 as much imbued into a genie.* So it would take about 24,000 character-days (since the total PV time of 2 tokens runs about an hour, this is also about 24,000 man-hours) worth of PV at a minimum to level all those genies. If your repair bill after your 12 or so PV runs each day is about 100,000 coins then you would expect to pay 2,400 million coins in repairs before getting your 91+ genie, not to mention the roughly 8,000 sets of hyper exp stones you would use assuming you are really good at hyper management and use less than a minute per run.

If you spent those same 24,000 man-hours earning $1 per hour, then you could purchase 24,000 gold (23,500 after the AH gold selling fee) which you could sell for at least 30,000 million coins.

* It would take almost twice as many PV runs for someone level 105 since they have a worse imbue ratio and get zero XP.


As I stated earlier, for roughly triple the mirage cost, you can reduce the spirit requirement by a factor of over 200 (to roughly 120 man hours of PV) by throwing away genies that have a low chance of reaching 91/100 LP.



My point remains. If people read this thread and start making longevity genies until someone sells a 91+ longevity to the OP, odds are high that the total investment in all the genies they create will far, far exceed the 400m the OP is offering. Unless on whatever server the OP is on, the dragoons still give full XP and spirit and they have 10x spirit and xp turned on all the time.

Problem is, Longevity isn't a popular genie type. Failed attempts would sell for a lot less than Zeal or Discipline.

Fissile - Archosaur wrote: »

The actual spirit cost of leveling 6,521 genies (assuming your player is level 100 to minimize the imbue penalty) is 214,815,523,804. A player who is good at PV can potentially get around 2 million spirit per token. Assuming (I've never used one of the Morai tokens) the Morai tokens last the same duration, something in the neighborhood of 5 million spirit per character per day is the maximum feasibly attainable. Multiply that by 1.8 since you get about 4 times that value in XP which is worth 1/5 as much imbued into a genie.* So it would take about 24,000 character-days (since the total PV time of 2 tokens runs about an hour, this is also about 24,000 man-hours) worth of PV at a minimum to level all those genies. If your repair bill after your 12 or so PV runs each day is about 100,000 coins then you would expect to pay 2,400 million coins in repairs before getting your 91+ genie, not to mention the roughly 8,000 sets of hyper exp stones you would use assuming you are really good at hyper management and use less than a minute per run.

If you spent those same 24,000 man-hours earning $1 per hour, then you could purchase 24,000 gold (23,500 after the AH gold selling fee) which you could sell for at least 30,000 million coins.

* It would take almost twice as many PV runs for someone level 105 since they have a worse imbue ratio and get zero XP.


As I stated earlier, for roughly triple the mirage cost, you can reduce the spirit requirement by a factor of over 200 (to roughly 120 man hours of PV) by throwing away genies that have a low chance of reaching 91/100 LP.



My point remains. If people read this thread and start making longevity genies until someone sells a 91+ longevity to the OP, odds are high that the total investment in all the genies they create will far, far exceed the 400m the OP is offering. Unless on whatever server the OP is on, the dragoons still give full XP and spirit and they have 10x spirit and xp turned on all the time.

Although I agree with the point you are trying to make, I just thought I'd mention that you can farm far more sp per token than you are estimating. When I was 104 and still leveling, I was getting at least 12m sp a day by just doing pv (2 tokens.. 6-7 runs a token). I wouldn't be surprised if someone told me they could get 14-15m sp a day.

@WannaBM, it is very very unlikely that you'd even break even for those prices.

I solo 6 to 7 runs of PV a day and rake in a good amount of spirit.