Skai You Sage Barb Hater
Kwandelan - Heavens Tear
Posts: 164 Arc User
Hey everyone,
I wanted to address some of the changes made in the latest content update.
Moderator Added Updates:
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(Skaitavia) Some things that have been noticed:
-Barbarian's new intense Sage True Form now deals 100% damage (same as Demon). This renders Sage True Form being at a much higher advantage than Demon than before.
You make it look as if Sage Barbs were at an advantage all along against Demons, whereas in reality looking at all the Sage vs Demon threads, there's Demons everywhere saying how it is a way better path on a skill-by-skill basis.
Just now PW decides to do a little something for Sages, you make it sound as if its imbalancing the class, that too to a large extent b:angry
I dont mind PWI giving demons something else in place of the (somewhat crappy) crit reduction bonus but saying Sage barbs are "at a much higher advantage than Demon than before" is...ridiculous. b:shutup
Post edited by Kwandelan - Heavens Tear on
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Wait so Sage barbs are now much (More) better than Demon barbs in true form. That's unfair unless you're going to grant us Demons something else as well. b:sad[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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I was going demon on my barb because of the demon true form, but now it's useless since sages can do full damage as well.0
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i still dont understand all the fuzz about these little details.
Isnt the whole sage vs demon thing simply the choise between a bit more HPs and 100%crit from sunder + APS from spark ?
The rest are details compaired to that imo.0 -
EXACTLY.
and tell me how much hp does sage true form increase again?
40%
while demon true form is only 30%?
ya go back to ur emo cage kitty[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
IHaxJoo - Raging Tide wrote: »EXACTLY.
and tell me how much hp does sage true form increase again?
40%
while demon true form is only 30%?
ya go back to ur emo cage kitty
You cant really use that as an arguement. The paths were supposed to be that way from before as part of a balancing act between them, yes. But if you keep aside the true form skills for a moment,
1) The Demon barbs have always received advantages in so many skills over sages so far.
2) 50% damage reduction the Sage barbs received was not much of a decrease in the physical attack. While removing the penalty, they are only trying to lvl the playing field for the sages.
3) With today's OP gear, that damage penalty removal is almost irrelevant (to Demons, that is). Demons still benefit from all their skills the same way as before, and those are some pretty damn good skills. Whereas, they have given a very small boost to Sages - And I still think Demons have an edge skills-wise over Sages even after the removal of penalty.
All they have done is made the Sage barbs a bit less useless than they were before. There's no reason for demons to qq, and other random forum trolls.0 -
HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »i still dont understand all the fuzz about these little details.
Isnt the whole sage vs demon thing simply the choise between a bit more HPs and 100%crit from sunder + APS from spark ?
The rest are details compaired to that imo.
I would consider it demon true form with no damage reduction and demon flesh ream with shorter CD for better aggro control vs higher defenses and chi procs of sage. This for PvE tanking.
For PK relevant demon skills are bestial onslaught (Crit buff), stomp of beast king (Never misses), Mighty swing (Higher stun), Sunder (Crit buff) and arma (more dmg). For sage better passives and buffs and pretty much only penetrate armor. Sage bestial onslaught to never miss is imo amazing proc with how much evasion some classes have these days but I heard its glitched and cant zerk, making skill bit less useful <.<.
For catabarbs it was demon with better chi gain (HP buff = 10 chi for you and 20 to squad yourself included) vs Sage with higher defenses.Trolling Sid since So Hot
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Sage was always hp and def and demon crit and dmg. Now they gave everything to u sage barbs and made yall stronger as a whole over us.0
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_LoupGaroux_ - Raging Tide wrote: »Sage was always hp and def and demon crit and dmg. Now they gave everything to u sage barbs and made yall stronger as a whole over us.
removal of damage penalty in true form is not everything.0 -
I am currently sage. I am going to make a demon because of the APS though.
The sunder i think is what will be the other benefit that i am going to like A LOT, even in pve as it will help me with my axe vs mass pulls a lot. it should give me 3 or 4 attacks of double damage, 2 of those should be sunder and armageddon....
I dont really consider demon armageddon to be better than sage though. I see the 10% extra damage as a way to equialise the lost damage from having less HP.0 -
HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »I am currently sage. I am going to make a demon because of the APS though.
The sunder i think is what will be the other benefit that i am going to like A LOT, even in pve as it will help me with my axe vs mass pulls a lot. it should give me 3 or 4 attacks of double damage, 2 of those should be sunder and armageddon....
I dont really consider demon armageddon to be better than sage though. I see the 10% extra damage as a way to equialise the lost damage from having less HP.
That's exactly what's wrong with this game aps.I might be black0 -
HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »I am currently sage. I am going to make a demon because of the APS though.
The sunder i think is what will be the other benefit that i am going to like A LOT, even in pve as it will help me with my axe vs mass pulls a lot. it should give me 3 or 4 attacks of double damage, 2 of those should be sunder and armageddon....
I dont really consider demon armageddon to be better than sage though. I see the 10% extra damage as a way to equialise the lost damage from having less HP.
Ehh, whenever I arma I either have immunities on me or its a suicide run to begin with and extra damage is all good
. For PvE sage arma is better for being easier on charm. Point really is, most of the time when you are supposed to arma you either cant take damage or dying is expected outcome when going in and losing bit less hp on arma is quite irrelevant. Trolling Sid since So Hot0 -
WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »Ehh, whenever I arma I either have immunities on me or its a suicide run to begin with and extra damage is all good. For PvE sage arma is better for being easier on charm. Point really is, most of the time when you are supposed to arma you either cant take damage or dying is expected outcome when going in and losing bit less hp on arma is quite irrelevant.
Just lettin you know, you're gonna be a fail.I might be black0 -
I already arma a lot with my sage barb in pve. Pull a bunch, invoke, spark, sunder, arma. Surf somewhere in between if chi isnt coming in fast enough. I love it and if you have enough opponents, and of course BP, it doesnt cost you any HPs. Its actually more likely to be an instant full heal.
With demon, chi is gonna come in faster and my damage will be doubled. b:pleased And then im gonna do this with my BM buddy, add some genie skills to it and it will be so awesome b:laugh0 -
Why is it that these Sage Barbs want to have their cake and eat it too?
No, you cannot have both more durability in Tiger/Panda form AND full damage, while we only get some -5% critical chance. Yes, the demon path gives CH bonuses and some better control skills, but sage gives additional chi/reduction in chi requirements, and other means of reducing HP loss and damage - that's where the balance of the paths laid.
If you want to argue that the Demon path is unbalanced compared to the Sages, then so be it, but why not make Sages better in what they do (as they did to an extent with Panda Form getting Chi) instead of giving them a perk from the other Cultivation?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Remember: OP may be a duck|OP/GMs/Devs may not deliver|Search function is your friend|Lurk more|Be wary of Mods: they can't be trusted|This place isn't a hugbox|Your tears sustain me|Know what Bait is|"Soon" may never come|Postcount, Dubs, and other GETs are important|Don't revive long dead threads|There is a section for everything|You can be banned for anything|No Fun Allowed outside of OT|Sweetiebot rules OT|"Circlejerks" are inevitable|Threads can be derailed and saved|Those who use"XD" should off themselves at their earliest convenience|0 -
i agree with this b:victoryEuthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »Why is it that these Sage Barbs want to have their cake and eat it too?
No, you cannot have both more durability in Tiger/Panda form AND full damage, while we only get some -5% critical chance. Yes, the demon path gives CH bonuses and some better control skills, but sage gives additional chi, and other means of reducing incoming damage - that's where the balance of the paths laid.
If you want to argue that the Demon path is unbalanced compared to the Sages, then so be it, but why not make Sages better in what they do (as they did to an extent with Panda Form getting Chi) instead of giving them a perk from the other Cultivation?0 -
what 5% crith looooool
you have soem skill wish give u 5 sec to always crith not 5% more
you only have 10% less hp but can serk crith arm much more often that serk crith will not be just a 10% extra damage.
and you have more skill wish are 100% hit percent then sage one with a better stun.
now that sage get no reduction in form ur complaining
that damage reduction we get and only and i say only 10% extra hp is not that great for all ur serk crith you culty can do.0 -
VKnightV - Lost City wrote: »what 5% crith looooool
you have soem skill wish give u 5 sec to always crith not 5% more
you only have 10% less hp but can serk crith arm much more often that serk crith will not be just a 10% extra damage.
and you have more skill wish are 100% hit percent then sage one with a better stun.
now that sage get no reduction in form ur complaining
that damage reduction we get and only and i say only 10% extra hp is not that great for all ur serk crith you culty can do.
bro do u evn english?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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In the events of the recent update, sage was favoured by receiving additional damage & chi skills which once dedicated to the demon playstyle.
There is no right or wrong cultivation... Every Barb here made their choice of becoming sage or demon based on their difference in playing style....
Many demon barbs will never trade their crits to become sage just as much as many sage barbs will never trade their survivals to become demon. If pwi is going to implement an update which offer an upgrade to sage, it would more than fair to offer an equal amount of upgrade to demon as well (but they did not).
There were also many barb who were sitting on the fence when choosing cultivation. It it was often just one or two extra skill that tipped the balance towards on side or the other. To those barbs, it should be given the choice to change cultivation for free (and relearn all the skills for free as well).[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I was mainly comparing just intensified sage true form versus its counterpart, the intensified demon true form.
On top of everything else, sage barbs can now get 350 chi every 30 seconds as well, without any mobs around. My intention was not to hate on the sage barbarian class, but to note that now intensified sage true form is superior by a good amount of factors to intensified demon true form.
The factors being:
-Higher HP
-Higher p def
-Faster speed
-20 chi every cast (2 second CD = 300 chi every 30 seconds, plus Master Li's technique for 350)[SIGPIC]Octavia is best pony![/SIGPIC]
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I was mainly comparing just intensified sage true form versus its counterpart, the intensified demon true form.
On top of everything else, sage barbs can now get 350 chi every 30 seconds as well, without any mobs around. My intention was not to hate on the sage barbarian class, but to note that now intensified sage true form is superior by a good amount of factors to intensified demon true form.
The factors being:
-Higher HP
-Higher p def
-Faster speed
-20 chi every cast (2 second CD = 300 chi every 30 seconds, plus Master Li's technique for 350)
That's exactly why I'm going sage because the thingamajig on game info→spiritual culti then if you look at the picture for sage its a barbI might be black0 -
Demon barbs are insanely better vs a single oponent because they can APS. It may be the problem of this game or not, but its there.
Demon barbs do double the damage vs mass mobs because of sunder crit. Its only 5s yes, but that doesnt matter, thats all thats needed to kill the whole mess.
Demon barbs hold better agro because of above 2 reason and the actual agro skills have been left behind in the development of the game, so we need to get it from raw damage.
So yes, i think its totally fair to give the sage barb some healthy benefits And everything i am saying here that indicates a different role for the barb than the clasical tanking role is not because i like it like that. It is because the game is like that. I would love to play a clasic tanking barb that can hold agro and is needed because the DDs are unable to survive by themselves. But that is simply and unfortunately no longer the reality in PWI.
Hoping that someday in the future they may change things in the game and because sages are still probably better for catapulling, i do not change my sage to demon but make myself a second barb instead.0 -
HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »Demon barbs are insanely better vs a single oponent because they can APS. It may be the problem of this game or not, but its there.
Demon barbs do double the damage vs mass mobs because of sunder crit. Its only 5s yes, but that doesnt matter, thats all thats needed to kill the whole mess.
Demon barbs hold better agro because of above 2 reason and the actual agro skills have been left behind in the development of the game, so we need to get it from raw damage.
So yes, i think its totally fair to give the sage barb some healthy benefits And everything i am saying here that indicates a different role for the barb than the clasical tanking role is not because i like it like that. It is because the game is like that. I would love to play a clasic tanking barb that can hold agro and is needed because the DDs are unable to survive by themselves. But that is simply and unfortunately no longer the reality in PWI.
Hoping that someday in the future they may change things in the game and because sages are still probably better for catapulling, i do not change my sage to demon but make myself a second barb instead.
Shut up...... Just Shut up!
Stop defending claw barbs.
You're going to be the worst barb ever.I might be black0 -
Shut up...... Just Shut up!
Stop defending claw barbs.
You're going to be the worst barb ever.
Please, keep the discussion clean and relevant to the content of the new update or the thread will be closed.
If you would like to point out how much aps barbs are useless, just start another discussion on another thread, explain your point of view and I will be more than happy to point out how much you don't know about barbs :>[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »Please, keep the discussion clean and relevant to the content of the new update or the thread will be closed.
If you would like to point out how much aps barbs are useless, just start another discussion on another thread, explain your point of view and I will be more than happy to point out how much you don't know about barbs :>
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HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »Demon barbs are insanely better vs a single oponent because they can APS. It may be the problem of this game or not, but its there.
Demon barbs do double the damage vs mass mobs because of sunder crit. Its only 5s yes, but that doesnt matter, thats all thats needed to kill the whole mess.
Demon barbs hold better agro because of above 2 reason and the actual agro skills have been left behind in the development of the game, so we need to get it from raw damage.
So yes, i think its totally fair to give the sage barb some healthy benefits And everything i am saying here that indicates a different role for the barb than the clasical tanking role is not because i like it like that. It is because the game is like that. I would love to play a clasic tanking barb that can hold agro and is needed because the DDs are unable to survive by themselves. But that is simply and unfortunately no longer the reality in PWI.
Hoping that someday in the future they may change things in the game and because sages are still probably better for catapulling, i do not change my sage to demon but make myself a second barb instead.
APS as a Sage Barb has some pros to it too, such as the readily available damage reduction from Sage Eruption and the stronger Penetrate Armor debuff, but they're just a lot more expensive to set up than a Demon equivalent...
As you said through the rest of your post, its because of the way things have progressed that Sage as a cultivation is somewhat less appealing. Still, if this means that they need to be given additional adjustments, I'd rather they gain things that doesn't step into the Demon cultivation's pros.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Remember: OP may be a duck|OP/GMs/Devs may not deliver|Search function is your friend|Lurk more|Be wary of Mods: they can't be trusted|This place isn't a hugbox|Your tears sustain me|Know what Bait is|"Soon" may never come|Postcount, Dubs, and other GETs are important|Don't revive long dead threads|There is a section for everything|You can be banned for anything|No Fun Allowed outside of OT|Sweetiebot rules OT|"Circlejerks" are inevitable|Threads can be derailed and saved|Those who use"XD" should off themselves at their earliest convenience|0 -
I do agree with that one yes. It would be nice if they could start by giving sage barbs some new skills that synergize with FR (because it would be good to have multiple skills that need to be used together instead of just spamming one) and provide agro about as much as a 5aps sin creates with say to or 3 less refines on an equal grade weapon and comparable equipment other than that. (and a comparable build as well ie, full dex and max str)
Now that would reinstall the sage barb as the tanker we are supposed to be, and the demon barbs could remain in their roll as solo TTers (Or in other words wannebe BMs 
)
For pvp i cant say much what i would like to see, no experience.0 -
I was mainly comparing just intensified sage true form versus its counterpart, the intensified demon true form.
On top of everything else, sage barbs can now get 350 chi every 30 seconds as well, without any mobs around. My intention was not to hate on the sage barbarian class, but to note that now intensified sage true form is superior by a good amount of factors to intensified demon true form.
The factors being:
-Higher HP
-Higher p def
-Faster speed
-20 chi every cast (2 second CD = 300 chi every 30 seconds, plus Master Li's technique for 350)
Did the math a couple of days ago, I'll post the link to the full numbers so everyone can see. http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=18924951&postcount=26HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »Now that would reinstall the sage barb as the tanker we are supposed to be, and the demon barbs could remain in their roll as solo TTers (Or in other words wannebe BMs )
For pvp i cant say much what i would like to see, no experience.
Of course, in the eyes of the sage barb (or whoever wants to see it that way...) the only thing that a demon barb can do is solo a TT run.
Besides for the fact that since Barbs can get -interval on r8 gear to boost the base 4.0 into 5.0; among other reasons why they would eventually pass the demon barb in terms of APS.
Why is automatically assumed that demon barbs are by default APS?0 -
why is it automatically asumed that this is automatically asumed ?
You really asume too much and you acuse others of doing so.
Its funny how i can get both demon barbs and sage barbs against me as they both manage to interpret my posts as bashing their choise. Some people should relax and smoke a joint a bit.0
This discussion has been closed.
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