Skai You Sage Barb Hater

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear

LucKaS_SiX - Harshlands wrote: »

Lmfao, you guys are rich, I'm speechless. I don't give 2 ****'s how you guys play your classes, all I've done is give you the reasons why I don't agree with it and why. If you have gotten this butt hurt about it then that's just sad, and I feel sorry for ya, I truly do. And I've also pointed out the fact that you suck at tanking because you yourself have to go aps on a tank class in order to keep agro, which is also sad, and I apologize as well. I, myself, have never had a problem tanking mobs or bosses against sins or any other class and I'm not aps or r9 in any form. I can do everything on my barb now with 28k hp that I could do at 90 with only 14-15k hp only more and better, sorry, your argument is invalid.

When people like you bring the arguments for aps on a barb you make it too easy for those of us who actually know how to play the class and make yourselves look like mindless idiots. At least say something more for yourself when you speak up rather then just piggy backing on somebody else's words.

And btw, I have a 102, 5 aps bm and a 101 sage sin that was 4 aps base before I decided to change to a "powerhouse" build for pvp, lets face it, no sin that only uses aps to kill people can hit a HA class for more then 2-3k at a time, and that's only if they're r9.

You are probably the 1000000'th player on the forum who comes around bashing aps barbs with the wrong idea of the playing style. You probably never came across a good aps barb and never will because your opinion is too biased.

1. The damage potential for aps is way higher than the damage potential for any type of axe builds.
2. Whatever you can do in pve or pvp as a demon barb, the aps barb can do the exact same thing with less hp.

If you think that APS is about holding agro on a boss, you are pretty dead wrong. While doing speed runs in lunar, ws, TT or any instances in aps squads, a vit barb barely contributes to any damage and is as good as a leecher or an alt buffer (don't even talk about tanking and protecting *****. Regular farming squads already what they are up to) The playing style allows a barb to contribute actual damage on a boss on top of debuffs and buffs.

Lt_chosen - Heavens Tear

FR+ stomp of the king(AEU) gets back aggro from a hax sin " try it, if it doesn't ignore this post"

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Lt_chosen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

FR+ stomp of the king(AEU) gets back aggro from a hax sin " try it, if it doesn't ignore this post"

In my experience Stomp of the King is worth about 300k hp of aggro. If this is a [?] boss or there aren't many debuffs 300k hp can take a little while. If this is a normal level boss with decent debuffs I've seen Stomp of the King not even budge aggro as about 2m hp dropped off from an HF+EP combo right afterwards.

Like everything else, timing is required.

Beleni - Dreamweaver

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

In my experience Stomp of the King is worth about 300k hp of aggro. If this is a [?] boss or there aren't many debuffs 300k hp can take a little while. If this is a normal level boss with decent debuffs I've seen Stomp of the King not even budge aggro as about 2m hp dropped off from an HF+EP combo right afterwards.

Like everything else, timing is required.

cannot be more spot on.

Why try take aggro mid HF/ or during triple spark, most sins can tank fine with such high BP heals during that period.
just debuff the boss ( frighten / Devour )
and grab aggro back after spark has finished. ( sins weakest point )

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

I have asked multiple times when i started playing barb if agro decays over time and each time the answer was no.

I want to make a little more clear what this means for i fear answers with a lack of understanding.

So that would mean if that sin is going to do 1m damage during those 15 seconds, that is the amount of agro he has after these 15 seconds.

It should not matter in what order you cast your skills, they just add up to your total agro.

If you cast stomp in the beginning and then ream full time and this for example adds up to 700k agro, it is not enough to keep agro, you will lose it somewhere halfway during the sins spark.

if instead you cast stomp at the end of his spark, you will still have created the same total of 700k. Not enough to beat the sins 1m. So you do not take agro from him.

To throw it all in an example situation:

The sin does on average 15k dmg per hit on the lvl 150boss. He generates 75k agro per second while he is attacking.

The barb uses FR for 50k agro per cast, stomp for 300k agro per cast, devour for 100k agro per cast. (note that if he would not use it, the sin would do only 12k per hit and thus generate 15k per second less, resulting in more agro for the barb, but that does not matter, our good barb keeps the boss devoured.)

So we start the fight, while the sin is sparking, the barb casts all 3 his skills for a total of 450k agro. The sin now starts attacking.
After 3 seconds, the sins agro has added up to only 225k yet. the barb reams again and brings his total to 500k.
After 6 seconds, the sin is at 450k, the barb reams again and brings his total to 550k.
After 7,5 seconds, the sin surpasses the 550k and steals agro.
Stomp is in cooldown for another 22,5 seconds, so the barb has to wait a long time before he can take back agro.

So now, the barb is going to time his stomp after the spark. We start battle again, barb uses ream + devour and starts of with 150k. After 2 seconds, the sin surpasses his 150k and takes agro. After 15 seconds, the sin has generated a total of 15x75 = 1125k agro and stops attacking to spark again. The barb at this point has just devoured for the second time and has cast a total of 5 reams. This brings his total agro to 2x100 +5x50 = 450k. Casting a stomp now is not enough to overcome the agro that the sin has generated during the last 15 seconds even though the sin has just stopped attacking. So the barb needs to roar to reset all agro to 0. Then, he casts stomp and we start where we were in the first example case.

This is asuming agro does not decay. So i ask again if this is truly the case or does agro generated in the last seconds have more effect than agro generated 10 seconds ago ?

Or do you guys mean you let the sin take agro in his spark, then roar to reset agro, and stomp to take it back. But lose it again during his next spark ? (why take agro from a sin at all if he can tank fine during his spark, most of them are permanently sparked. So this idea sounds to me like "im am barb, i must fight for agro" resulting in constant swiching of agro between you and the sin)

Or do you keep agro by APSing yourself and throwing in a stomp during non-hf times to make up for the sins higher damage output? (sounds like a reasonable plan to me)

I want to what you guys mean when you speak about timing and if agro works as people have been telling me it works. I do not yet have stomp of the king. I want to know how and if indeed it is possible to use it and keep agro from an equally or better geared 5APS sin without using APS yourself. (how it works when using APS myself isnt so hard to figure out...)

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

I have asked multiple times when i started playing barb if agro decays over time and each time the answer was no.

First off, PWI doesn't release much about their game dynamics. Much like how the company is managing to show a huge profit margin but declining stock value, its all shrouded in mystery.

So everything we say about aggro is mostly assumed and theorized from what we observed with nothing concrete.

I believe aggro does decay over time. You can see this from a barb who pulls aggros, brings the mobs into the bubble but leaves some of the ranged mobs too far outside of the zhen circle. After a little while the roar aggro wears off and the bubble aggro builds and the mobs switch to attacking the cleric even though at one point they had been roared.


Second, FR and Stomp of the King (SotK) seem to work one way and Penetrate Armor and Devour another way. PA and Devour seem to deliver "damage aggro" like actualy attacks. FR and Stomp deliver hate. The difference can be seen in different level hp mobs. For instance on a 23m hp WBs, the 50k or so hate Devour generates doesn't go far but it works great on bosses like Seat who are [?] and have high def and a damage debuff.

Also, FR put you to the top of the Aggro list + gives a little damage. Lets say you have your squad players A, Barb, C, D, E, F with damage that looks like this.

A= 327k
C= 280k
D= 90k
E= 88k
Barb= 65k
F= 0k (cleric)

Lets also throw in 'a' for aggro units equal to 1k damage. So, you Flesh Ream. That moves you to the top of the aggro list and gives you a few more aggro units, like 30k worth. Now you have:

Barb = 65k+262a+ 30a = 357a
A= 327k
C= 280k
D= 90k
E= 88k
F= 0k (but clerics accumule aggro units from heals, even though they're not doing damage)

That's how I think it works. FR moves you to the top of the list without affecting others aggro built.

Alpha Male would reset everyones damage aggro and aggro units down to zero and give like 5a to the barb (enough to prevent heal aggro). Roar would also do the same but gives more aggro, lets say 30a. When aggro is reset one of the DDs that was way behind can now get aggro, for instance player E wouldn't need 240k to pass player A anymore since they both are back to zero aggro.

Devour and PA would be like damage. Lets say 50k worth of damage. You hit a mob for 15k but get 65k worth of damage.

Another thing to note are I think crits, GoF, stuns, purges.... any skill effect, really, generates more aggro. So lets say I use Mighty Swing for 15k damage but it stuns. That'd be more like 25k damage. This is one of the theories why demon vortex and sage DB draws so much more aggro than their equal counterparts.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Thanks, I know the information is not released, but it kind of surprises me that in an old game like this, it is not yet thorougly analysed by the players. I have played multiple games before where nothing was released and everything was found out by the players to a degree of precision and certainty very different from the theories in PWI.

When i get back to the game, i will do some testing. Maybe i will come up with some more precise information myself. It shouldnt really be that hard to test with a few players carefully attacking and registring the exact damage they deal. Probably starting with lvl 100 players and white G1 weapons on low level bosses to provide comfortable environment where we can ignore their attacks. To me it feels kind of unacceptable to play a game and not having such information. Cant understand this to remain hidden for 5 or so years.... (Id almost start blaming the PTW aspect of the game and the kind of player community it must draw, but then again, i see some of the work people like astrelle have done in the years past, and respect that a lot. I guess theres just been too few of them in this game)

Of course your claim about FR putting you on top of the list is very easy to test. Let a sin attack a WB for a minute and then run away. 1 FR will turn it to attack the barb ? permanently ? (with the sin not attacking anymore of course)

Your BB example doesnt really mean agro has to decay. The BB is constant healing and thus constant agro generation. At some point it will of course overcome the agro from that roar.

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear

As far as I know, flesh ream's pulls your hate to the top of the list (or just below the top) and then adds aggro. The total aggro = base damage + bonus aggro. As opposed to general consensus, the bonus aggro is not a fix amount, it actually scales up with damage.

As far as I know, roar has a locked-in aggro time of ~3 seconds, meaning that everything will hit you for ~3 after casting roar. But after the locked-in time is over, the aggro decays rapidly: the net aggro added is roughly equivalent to 10k damage soon after the time is over.


Knowing perfectly how aggro works is sure nice.. but ultimately, wherever a barb will have aggro is limited to several factors:
1. Cooldown of skills. You can spam as much flesh ream as you can, but you cannot never exceed the cooldown rate. Its an limitation of the game mechanic but pwi did improve this by giving us stomp in the AEU content update.
2. Attitude towards Builds. All DD classes spend most of their money resources into boosting their damage output. On the other hand, barbs tend invest much more into survivals. We can all count more +12 sins than +12 barbs on every server. There are obviously more pure dex sins than pure str barbs. Or more barbs wearing omalley's blessings instead of jones. So, in order to have a better chance at holding aggro, barbs need invested as much into damage output as other classes do (but they don't). And barbs who invest into damage is more valuable in aggressive pvp, not to hold aggro in pve. Which leads to my next point...
3. Sometimes, its just pointless to hold aggro. There are increasing number of people with better gear who can tank without any issue.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

I just downloaded one of those sucky pieces of software that lets you test with fully equiped lvl 112 chars even when you are far from home (dont ask) and made 2 accounts. Getting ready to do some testing. Ill report with a new thread when i found facts

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Preliminary results:

lvl 112 BM and lvl 125 barb with different weapons available to allow them to measure out an amount of damage i want to deal.
Silver Frost is killed between each test to start clean again.

Until i get signs that this is not true, i assume the following:
-all damage is treated equal, crits, zerks etc. Damage = damage. (but DOTs are not used in the test unless stated)
-There is 1 number for agro. Each player has a certain amount of agro with the boss. The boss always attacks the player with most agro.
-We will never know what exact number the software uses internally but i will use the scale 1 damage = 1 agro. All other sources of agro will be measured against the amount of damage that creates equal agro.
-this strange piece of software uses the same math as PWI and the higher levels do not have an effect on the tests.


Test 1: Decay

BM deals 78451 dmg to silverfrost and stops attacking.
AFK 10 minutes. Then barb attacks standard attack.
The hit that turns agro deals 2973 dmg and the barb has done 79891 total dmg.

Conclusion 1: Agro does not decay while you stay near enough not to unagro the boss.
Conclusion 2: BMs damage is worth the same as Barbs damage.

---

Test 2: losing agro

BM deals 125301 damage
Barbs needs to deal >125k to take agro and stops attacking.
Barb runs away till he loses frost, hapens to agro legion marchal, leaves instance and returns.
Barbs needs to deal >125k to take agro.
Barb runs away till he loses frost but does not leave instance and returns.
Barbs needs to deal >125k to take agro.

Conclusion 1: When you lose him, all agro is gone
Conclusion 2: Player that remains at spawn location keeps all agro even though boss is pulled away for a while and boss would not have found you if you moved during that while.
(this method will be used in future tests when i want to check absolute amount of agro rather than relative to the other character.)

---

Test 3: Flesh ream

BM does a sh!tload of damage and stops attacking.
Barb does 1 FR for 2091 damage.
Wait 2 minutes, barb keeps agro.
BM needs to deal ~18000 damage to regain agro.

BM does a sh!tload of damage and stops attacking.
Barb does 1 FR for 1280 damage.
Wait 2 minutes, barb keeps agro.
BM needs to deal ~17000 damage to regain agro.

BM does a sh!tload of damage and stops attacking.
Barb does 1 FR for 3172 damage.
Wait 2 minutes, barb keeps agro.
BM needs to deal ~19000 damage to regain agro.

BM does a sh!tload of damage and stops attacking.
Barb does 1 FR for 13507 damage.
Wait 2 minutes, barb keeps agro.
BM needs to deal ~28000 damage to regain agro.

BM does a sh!tload of damage and stops attacking.
Barb does 1 FR for 15589 damage.
Wait 2 minutes, barb keeps agro.
BM needs to deal ~30000 damage to regain agro.

Barb does 1 FR and runs to lose agro
Barb returns and needs to do a sh!tload of dmg to gain agro.

Conclusion 1: Regardless the amount of agro the BM, After FR the barb has about FRdmg + 16000 more agro.
Conclusion 2: Agro is not reset to FRdmg+16000, but this is added to the existing amount of agro the BM had.

---

devour, stomp and heal agro will be tested later. Anything else that i should include ?

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear

Which version of pw is that? does it has sirens of war content update (the one with skill changes)?

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

devour, stomp and heal agro will be tested later. Anything else that i should include ?

Great results. Although, I'm not sure we can count "one of those programs" to be 100% reliable. I'm not a programmer so I don't know what private servers pull from when they copy game content. But it looks like what I was explaining was decently accurate

Yah, I realized my example of leaving mobs unattended while a bb heals you doesn't eplicitly show decay because the bb is healing so the cleric is gaining aggro but it still seemed to fit my purpose, but it was a bad example. I guess a more fitting example would be when I round up mobs roar, and then have a long way to run back to a bubble (say getting frozen or slowed.) If you roar and people attack right away the mobs seem to take more attacks before switching. If you roar and take a while for people to start attacking then the time between first attack and aggro switching seems quicker. Like Magnanimous said, Roar seems to have a decay or time switch.

Things to possibly test:
~Does Roar aggro decay or have a set time limit?
~Heal aggro relationship to damage. (stronger heal=more aggro?)
~Alpha Male (weakest aggro ever)
~Untamed Wrath (does it add aggro like a damage amount, reset aggro like roar, or move you to the top of the aggro list like FR).
~Do crits generate aggro?
~Do stuns, freezes, seals, purges,... generate aggro?

At one point we had an aggro guide in barb forums. Then Asterelle compiled a bunch of aggro information and made a second guide that was a bit easier to understand and complete. Its around here somewhere. It was still based mostly in theory.

~~~

In all of this I think the original point was learning to time your aggro burst (time for bed. I just tried spelling 'learning' as 'lurning' 0.o ) to coincide with an aggro stealers down times.

So, squad starts with a bang. Everyone runs in, triple sparks, HFs, Amps, EPs/Subseas, Mires, and you can Devour. You've just turned that 200k dps sin into a 850k dps sin, which is great because that's how bosses die fast, but there is no hope of competing for aggro against a sin who's just had their dps more than quadrupled. On the bright side that sin is prolly seeing something like 2-5k paint heals 5 times a second, or 10-25k hp a second. Bosses attack slow. That sin is hitting about 6 times between each boss attack so as long as he's not 1 shot he's gonna live. If all goes well the boss dies. If not, the boss is still alive when debuffs start wearing off, sparks start dieing, and now you have empty genies and amps in cooldown. Now it's time for the barb to step up.

So, there are a few ways to handle this. First, you'll want to Roar after that insane damage rush. Your sin is literally millions of damage higher then you and you want a fresh start, you 0 damage, him 0 damage. Now, you can FR and probably soak up every other hit, meaning the sin is getting about 12 hits in between every hit he receives. Every 4 attack the boss will do a special move, usually magic damage and usually interuptable, but they also chain it with their physical attack for a double wammy and you sin will have to survive that during this low-dd period.

I advocate using Devour to help during their boost to boost paint heals and lower boss attack levels. This can make a 2 shot sin a 3 shot, and sins can get a lot of heals in between 3 attacks, especially on a debuffed boss. Most importantly, the sooner a boss is dead the less threats he can pose.

So, watch your timer. The boss is started, people spark, people debuff. Most debuffs last 6-10 seconds. Most debuffs and amps have a 30 second cd (HF, amp, TM). So the barbs time to shine is that 10-30 seconds when the amps and debuffs are in cd and there isn't crazy damage being done. That's your opportunity to grab your aggro and its when the sin will actually want you to have it. The the debuffs will start up again. The time the sin will need you most is when they spark because if they're hit right before they spark and then right as the come out they've had very little heal in between. So throwing a FR in as a sin starts their 3 second spark immunity isn't a bad idea.

Lastly, know range. Don't FR and make a boss move. Daggers have a tiny range and if the boss moves the sin has to move. If the sin has to move he's being attacked and isn't attacking back so no paint heals=dead sin. You've just killed the sin by Flesh Reaming. Another common occurance in the aggro bounce barb->sin->barb->sin->barb->... and the boss decide one of you is "ranged dd" and starts throwing out a magic attack ever other attack. Now the whole squad, including the sin who's doing half the tanking, is taking alot more aoes than normal because there's an aggro fight. Better to cool the "I R tank" attitude and just let the sin tank since its probably you that will actually get them killed, not the boss.

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear

Pretty sure that flesh ream aggro scales up with damage.

I was doing some experimention with aggro numbers on the fb19 earthguard boss (fast respawn, easily accessible, negligible hp regen, just enough hp for the purpose of the experiment, always take 100% damage). I used lvl11 flesh ream as the initial hit(with a variety of weapon, ring, blessing combination, crits). I have my sin hit it without weapon when the hp gets low to get a better approximation. Most numbers were exceed by 1~2 hits (~200 damage per hit).

Link to Spreadsheet

Approximation:

Total Aggro = Base Flesh Ream Damage + 20k bonus + 1k Bonus per additional 1k base damage. (revoked)

or (same formula)

Total Aggro = 2*(Base Flesh Ream Damage) + 20k Bonus (Revoked)

Notes:
1. I ignored bleed damage (which was 693 per tick on that boss, 5 ticks in total) Enough time was given for the bleed to run out. I also did NOT use my morai weapon because slaying level is the only thing that can amp bleed damage.
2. Most of the data was collected right after sirens of war expansion. I did make a couple of checks yesterday to test that this is still valid.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Total Aggro = 2*(Base Flesh Ream Damage) + 20k Bonus.

Well my results show that its only 1*base FR damage. And the bonus of 16k i wrote, has been adjusted. After more precise testing where i made a macro with an attack followed by an instant so that only 1 attack is done at a time, i found out that it is 14500. This came out for the same reason, i was looking at my damage log and thought that only the last attack was not te be counted due to reaction speed of silver frost changing targets, but the BM can easilly get in 3 or 4 attacks between his agro surpassing the barbs and silverfrost actually attacking the BM.

This extra attack could also explain your 2* base result. When the barbarian does FR, he will follow up with an attack that is so fast that you can not relliably stop it by pressing escape. You must use a macro to stop it from following up the FR with an extra attack. that extra attack could exactly give you that second base damage in your formula. With these macros and doing multiple FRs to have more precise numbers i have done a bunch more tests and am now pretty sure of the results. (for my first tests i simply substracted the extra damage done by the attack folowing the ream from the total damage my bm had to do. Therefore i did not have the 2x base damage results in my first tests even though i did not use a macro yet)

So my method of testing now is this, i dont see how it could go wrong:
-do 10x FR with macro that prevents barb from doing any other attacks.
-look at damage log, register damage done.
-Attack with BM 1 attack at the time until agro changes. Use big attacks first, small attacks when i know im getting close.
-look at damage log, register damage done.
-done with different amounts of damage and FRs. substract FR number, devide by 10. Result: 14500

If that is not the case, then it would be because of different software versions. But i do not really expect this to be altered. For now, i will continue doing tests and when i am home in a month, i will quickly try check if it is the same in the real PWI.
Still wonder why you have 20k though. is your FR lvl 11 ? different levels of skill i also still have to test in the future. Right now i test lvl 10 skills only. I intent to test level 11 skills later but for that (and to get stomp) i need to further develop my testbarb. Lower levels i probably dont care enough about

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

My updated test log: Some of the later results have been done twice but only registered once because the numbers were nigh exactly the same. (its nice that you dont have a damage range when not using a weapon)

BM does a sh!tload of damage and stops attacking.
Barb does 1 FR for 2091 damage.
Wait 2 minutes, barb keeps agro.
BM needs to deal ~18000 damage to regain agro

BM does a sh!tload of damage and stops attacking.
Barb does 1 FR for 1280 damage.
Wait 2 minutes, barb keeps agro.
BM needs to deal ~17000 damage to regain agro.

BM does a sh!tload of damage and stops attacking.
Barb does 1 FR for 3172 damage.
Wait 2 minutes, barb keeps agro.
BM needs to deal ~19000 damage to regain agro.

BM does a sh!tload of damage and stops attacking.
Barb does 1 FR for 13507 damage.
Wait 2 minutes, barb keeps agro.
BM needs to deal ~28000 damage to regain agro.

BM does a sh!tload of damage and stops attacking.
Barb does 1 FR for 15589 damage.
Wait 2 minutes, barb keeps agro.
BM needs to deal ~30000 damage to regain agro.

Barb does 10FR for 30521 total damage and stops attacking
BM needs to deal ~175000 dmg to gain agro.

Barb does 1FR for 793 damage
BM needs to deal ~15600 dmg to gain agro.

Barb does 3FR for 793 damage each. 2379 total
BM needs to deal ~46000 dmg to gain agro

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear

There was no auto-attack from my barb after the initial flesh ream. I cancel the autoattack by giving a secondary movement order during flesh ream. 200% sure about it. Even if i were drunk, that kind of mistake is too flagrant to miss it... ever f:horror

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

btw, your excel file after i took a while to interpret it doesnt show me a 2* factor either.

As i interpret it, you took this 65k HP boss.

You ream it.

Then you take agro with your sin and record the remaining HP in column C

Column D shows the difference. So this is the damage done by the sin + the damage done by barbs ream.

Column E substracts the ream. So this is the damage done by the sin.

These numbers in column E show roughly Ream damage + 20k, not 2*ream damage + 20k.

So yes, i guess its just the difference between lvl 10 and 11 ream that makes the difference of 14k5 or 20k bonus. Big difference btw and by itself more of a reason to get that sage/demon book than the sage demon advantage in itself.

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear

yeah, you are right, it would converge to a constant 20k~ish (strictly less than 21.6k). I did a double count in the formula.

But the interpretation from the previous page is still the same. You can't really get more efficient at holding aggro even if you know beyond the small details of it. It is still limited by skill cooldowns/timings, builds, usefulness of holding aggro. That's the reason why I did not bother to continue posting or crunching any numerical research beyond scribbling those numbers on a rough paper.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

yeah, you are right, it would converge to a constant 20k~ish (strictly less than 21.6k). I did a double count in the formula.

But the interpretation from the previous page is still the same. You can't really get more efficient at holding aggro even if you know beyond the small details of it. It is still limited by skill cooldowns/timings, builds, usefulness of holding aggro. That's the reason why I did not bother to continue posting or crunching any numerical research beyond scribbling those numbers on a rough paper.

You can do everything better when you have complete information. That is why humans strive for knowledge and that is why they are on the top op the foodchain. Even if you dont know how exactly you are going to use the knowledge, knowledge is always a good thing as it can teach you more things that you didnt expect before.

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

You can do everything better when you have complete information. That is why humans strive for knowledge and that is why they are on the top op the foodchain. Even if you dont know how exactly you are going to use the knowledge, knowledge is always a good thing as it can teach you more things that you didnt expect before.

Knowledge is power. But the details are not always useful.

knowing the much details doesn't give a better answer to some questions.
e.g. Whats would be a better strategy than spamming FR and Stomp?

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Knowledge is power. But the details are not always useful.

knowing the much details doesn't give a better answer to some questions.
e.g. Whats would be a better strategy than spamming FR and Stomp?

Like they say, timing. Of course it can help. Also i am very curious how much the devour is going to do at different hitpoints. Will give me a feeling for how much im helping the DD gain more agro vs how much i get from the devour. Espescially when im gonna be APSing myself, i need to know everything and decide if and when it is worth swiching weapons to do some agro skills. The sin has an advantage in that he does more dps with the same equipment. I hope to overcome that as best as i can.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

test 4: roar

Barb casts roar
BM needs to deal ~6300 dmg to take agro.

BM does load of dmg
Barb casts roar
BM needs to deal ~6300 dmg to take agro.

BM does load of dmg
Barb casts roar and runs to lose agro.
Barb returns and needs to do a load of damage to take agro !

Barb cast roar twice
BM needs to deal ~12600 dmg to take agro.

Barb does a bunch of damage then roars.
BM needs to do a bunch more than 6300 dmg to take agro.

Conclusion: Roar does not reset agro as often suggested. Like FR, it equalizes agro when behind and then adds 6300.

This is quite a difference with the what is commonly said. Could anyone verify this on the real PWI server ?

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Devour seems to be damage + 7000 here and it doesnt matter what HP i have. Guess im gonna have to wait and test on the real PWI.

WannaBM - Archosaur

Yes, necro b:laugh
Its a long time ago i promised i would do this again and offcial. It just took me quite a while to build my new barb and get going again

Well i just bought my stomp of the king skill so i soon i intend to finish this work and make it right.
I just did some tiny test though and i must say stom of the king seems to disappoint a bit on first sight. Its agro generation is bewteen 60k and 80k is what i can say for now. Surely a good addition but not the "now you never lose agra again even if you go sit and lick your paws" kind of agro for sure.

Ill make a new post when i tested everything.... no lvl 11 roar yet though....

SweetieBot - Lothranis

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Yes, necro
Its a long time ago i promised i would do this again and offcial. It just took me quite a while to build my new barb and get going again

Well i just bought my stomp of the king skill so i soon i intend to finish this work and make it right.
I just did some tiny test though and i must say stom of the king seems to disappoint a bit on first sight. Its agro generation is bewteen 60k and 80k is what i can say for now. Surely a good addition but not the "now you never lose agra again even if you go sit and lick your paws" kind of agro for sure.

Ill make a new post when i tested everything.... no lvl 11 roar yet though....

NECROOO!!!!!!!

WannaBM - Archosaur replied to a message that was 3 months 6 days 1 hour 47 minutes old.

ovenusarmanio

closed for necro