FC discussion from undocumented changes (reference only)

Maelael - Heavens Tear · March 2013

Abonimus - Raging Tide wrote: »

Indeed.

This game is , if im not wrong, one of the oldest MMORPG's out there. Also its content is aged and having it revamp completely just wont work.

You're wrong. Theres other surviving MMOs out there that are older, and it is by far not one of the oldest by close to a decade.

Updating, revamping, and adding new content has been proven to extend the life of an MMO (and kind of, any game). It brings back old players to try out the new thing in the game they're already comfortable with, and gives people who are invested in the game already more to do. The issue with such is managing power creep, which nobody has well in hand out there.

Abonimus - Raging Tide · March 2013

Toomaga - Heavens Tear wrote: »

All the quest's need is a bigger boost in exp and spirit gain, and the mobs should give much more exp and maybe even drop a larger value worth of coins. It would actually bring a very nice aspect of grinding to make money into this game.

Well not that big of a coin increase but big enough to make picking up the coins that drop a worthwhile event ... Which it isnt all that much atm.

Abonimus - Raging Tide · March 2013

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You're wrong. Theres other surviving MMOs out there that are older, and it is by far not one of the oldest by close to a decade.

Updating, revamping, and adding new content has been proven to extend the life of an MMO (and kind of, any game). It brings back old players to try out the new thing in the game they're already comfortable with, and gives people who are invested in the game already more to do. The issue with such is managing power creep, which nobody has well in hand out there.

Sure if i am wrong you will have no problem in naming those games wont you ?

Also games that have less then 1000 ppl online dont count ... As well as private servers.

Gia_onna - Archosaur · March 2013

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I have a serious question for v4liance.

Now that the subject has been brought up... would you consider posting a poll to garner public opinion on the Frost issue? A lot of people were hopeful that this change was intended and permenant, or at least that Frost entry would be capped at 75 or 80. I think it would be great if we could get a public poll with the question "should Frost entry be capped at Level 75" or something, with just yes and no answers, and let the results be passed on to wanmei.

I know they're mostly deaf to our pleas, but I feel like given the situation, we can raise a bit of noise for this. Please consider this, v4l.

This would so be great but judging from the QQing on Arch *rolls eyes*, there are more impatient new ppl wanting high lvls immediately, than those of us who prefer questing. There are also ppl who may have levelled a few toons w/out p/lvl but now want to p/lvl their 3rd or 4th alt. Personally, I would love a lvl 80 cap, in the hopes more ppl would quest or at least do BH39-69.
It would be nice if people would be interested in doing instances just for fun. No-one does alpha or beta rebirth and of course Nivy is dead.
Thx 4 ur suggestion

Toomaga - Heavens Tear · March 2013

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You're wrong. Theres other surviving MMOs out there that are older, and it is by far not one of the oldest by close to a decade.

Updating, revamping, and adding new content has been proven to extend the life of an MMO (and kind of, any game). It brings back old players to try out the new thing in the game they're already comfortable with, and gives people who are invested in the game already more to do. The issue with such is managing power creep, which nobody has well in hand out there.

And PWI undoubtedly will not do anything about the power gap. It is what drives players to want to charge a good portion of ZEN to even it out.

Look very closely at stage 3 nirvana. Players invested all kinds of time/real life coin to get it, and then several rank sales were introduced shortly after. If you pay attention more and more players are selling off their unbound stage 3 nirvana to try and obtain rank 9, but with the flood of stage 3 Nirvana weapons already out there it is getting harder and harder to sell. Which might trigger the urge in a certain player to charge zen to get the last bit of gold they need for the MOG's and GST's. Even if it is a little ZEN PWI got it of their pocket.

But that is waaaaay off topic sorryb:surrender.

_Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary · March 2013

I am curious, if FCC does not get fixed will it just be a completely useless instance sitting on the map or will it be Farmable for mats again like it should? lol

ALSO

What weapons molds are not dropping in WS?

If I can't get a 3rd cast Mag sword I am going to be PISSED.

I am stuck with this crappy r8 glaive >.>

Maelael - Heavens Tear · March 2013

Abonimus - Raging Tide wrote: »

Sure if i am wrong you will have no problem in naming those games wont you ?

Also games that have less then 1000 ppl online dont count ... As well as private servers.

No, I can't as it is against the forum rules lol.

But I assure you one of them is still the most populated MMO out there.

Toomaga - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And PWI undoubtedly will not do anything about the power gap. It is what drives players to want to charge a good portion of ZEN to even it out.

Look very closely at stage 3 nirvana. Players invested all kinds of time/real life coin to get it, and then several rank sales were introduced shortly after. If you pay attention more and more players are selling off their unbound stage 3 nirvana to try and obtain rank 9, but with the flood of stage 3 Nirvana weapons already out there it is getting harder and harder to sell. Which might trigger the urge in a certain player to charge zen to get the last bit of gold they need for the MOG's and GST's. Even if it is a little ZEN PWI got it of their pocket.

But that is waaaaay off topic sorryb:surrender.

Its not off topic but at least congruent given we're talking about gameplay and game survival. FF's management and the decision behind what to do about hypers there will affect gameplay and game survival.

Power creep is not power gap. Power gap is a symptom of power creep, like how bleeding is a symptom of a cut. I brought up Power creep because no gaming company has made a long term sustainable MMO without it being a problem, but have addressed other game concerns that PWI has not. But going further into this is a HUGE discussion that really drives us off the point of FF powerleveling access.

ovenusarmanio · March 2013

Tsukyini - Raging Tide wrote: »

Ehh..... I'm going to have to disagree, simply because there are plenty of people who want absolutely nothing to do with those sites, and they will not sign up just for a poll. No one needs to sign up for anything new if the poll were to be hosted on a PWE page, since every player already has a PWE account.

I meant in addition to the forums not instead of the forums.

There will be the issue of multivoting, but it opens the door to a lot more people who never view the forums but have liked PWE on facebook/twitter to receive items.

Father_gold - Sanctuary wrote: »

the NW issue is not avoidable if we are talking the ability to participate though. lvl 60 in NW is gonna get what single digit tokens? might as well make the lower limit 100 while you are at it.

the DQ nerf is another aspect altogether as well, how are these people going to afford fixing gear for all the time they will be spending questing?

ppl complain about fcc babies, but all thats going to happen is we will have PV babies. can't avoid powerleveling anymore, we are too far gone.

My lowbie bm averages about 40-50 tokens, but have made as much as 106 tokens. I haven't had the luck of being on winning nation in a very long time though. Usually in 3rd or last place nation, so I could be making more. I have already saved up enough cannies to 2nd cast all my bms gear immediately, and sold off enough cannies to buy the blacksmith training and tailor training skill books. I've also been able to buy vanity items thanks to that income such as the gilded ribbon fashion set. Now there is also a coin farming mission that I can't wait to try when I get my laptop back.

Have you been to PV? It's more work for less exp unless you can solo it. At least now getting a squad for other content will be easier. The one thing about being a lowbie that has made it difficult for me to play low level content was the lack of people not buying FC. I am curious as to how the coin farming thing is working out. Who here has had the chance to try it?

Abonimus - Raging Tide wrote: »

Sure if i am wrong you will have no problem in naming those games wont you ?

Also games that have less then 1000 ppl online dont count ... As well as private servers.

Naming other mmos is not allowed on the forums.

Oups_Dead - Harshlands · March 2013

i would like smart ppl 2 tell me how someone can lvl up after 103 or 104 without fc? u gonna say pv? what if u r not a sin? now the ppl with some low IQ will say do cube man it gives u 1m exp do cs another 1m what about bh II 600k so great so easy guys every 5.5m exp is equivalent to 0.2% at 103 even aeu gives only 0,2% so u can get what ? 0,4% daily great

ovenusarmanio · March 2013

Oups_Dead - Harshlands wrote: »

i would like smart ppl 2 tell me how someone can lvl up after 103 or 104 without fc? u gonna say pv? what if u r not a sin? now the ppl with some low IQ will say do cube man it gives u 1m exp do cs another 1m what about bh II 600k so great so easy guys every 5.5m exp is equivalent to 0.2% at 103 even aeu gives only 0,2% so u can get what ? 0,4% daily great

PV is pretty much all AOE, sins should be the ones complaining more than anyone, really. FC was a source of income for them, and PV is harder on a class that has so few aoes. As an archer, you now have a clear leveling advantage over them. Considering how disproportionately 105 favors sins though, I'd say that's fair.

Nry - Lost City · March 2013

Oups_Dead - Harshlands wrote: »

i would like smart ppl 2 tell me how someone can lvl up after 103 or 104 without fc? u gonna say pv? what if u r not a sin? now the ppl with some low IQ will say do cube man it gives u 1m exp do cs another 1m what about bh II 600k so great so easy guys every 5.5m exp is equivalent to 0.2% at 103 even aeu gives only 0,2% so u can get what ? 0,4% daily great

PV so much easier to lvl with than FC unless ur gear sucks...

Levantica - Raging Tide · March 2013

Oups_Dead - Harshlands wrote: »

i would like smart ppl 2 tell me how someone can lvl up after 103 or 104 without fc? u gonna say pv? what if u r not a sin? now the ppl with some low IQ will say do cube man it gives u 1m exp do cs another 1m what about bh II 600k so great so easy guys every 5.5m exp is equivalent to 0.2% at 103 even aeu gives only 0,2% so u can get what ? 0,4% daily great

Vote for 85+ and you will be fine b:pleased

xardiounium · March 2013

v4liance wrote: »

Hey everyone,

I wanted to address some of the changes made in the latest content update.

1) Frostcovered City no longer supports hyper exp.

2) Weapon molds are missing from Warsong City.

If there are additional issues you wish addressed, please describe them in this thread.

These changes were not intended by the PWE team, and we will be speaking with the development team to determine how quickly we can revert these changes.

I want to be honest with you all here - these changes caught us by surprise, and I'm truly sorry that we weren't able to address them before they went live.

We'll be doing everything we can to fix these issues as soon as we can, and I'll be keeping you all posted here.

[Updated items]

3) Invisible walls in Seat of Torment and Warsong now prevent players from teleporting by jumping down.
- We'll bring this up with our dev team as well.
4) TW rewards changed back to Mirage Celestones only.

Regarding the FCC issue:
- I'm seeing a lot of support to keep this change, or at least to have a modified version. Since it's on the table, I'll see if we can start discussing possible alternatives, such as setting a level limit, or a hyper exp lvl requirement for FCC. I cannot promise that we'll be able to get this fixed, let alone to everyone's satisfaction, but we'll do our best.

- Val

Moderator Added Updates:

*reserved for updates to the list made by moderators*

~Venus

Finally JUSTICE!. No more looser players...no more pain, no more!. Finally all players(new players), can enjoy normal game. Finally no more "Head" sales. I'm so happy now..it's a taste of victory, now i can leave all mine anger, rage and hate behind me b:thanks
If you delete Reputations sale from boutique, you make me super happy. It's seems PWI is a bit back, now is a bit more sens to play like before!. Gosh I'm so happy now b:thanks

Unseenrage - Harshlands · March 2013

Honestly, FC needs to stay in the game. It's one of the only decent ways to get from level 8x to 10x and for aps classes it's the best way to go beyond 100. What NEEDS to happen is it needs to be a level 80 or 90+ dungeon to stop things like alt FC and selling FC exp rooms.

I'm really disappointed about this, I've been playing pwi for a very long time and it was wonderful when hypers were introduced to FC. It's sad to see them go.

Toomaga - Heavens Tear · March 2013

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

No, I can't as it is against the forum rules lol.

But I assure you one of them is still the most populated MMO out there.

Its not off topic but at least congruent given we're talking about gameplay and game survival. FF's management and the decision behind what to do about hypers there will affect gameplay and game survival.

Power creep is not power gap. Power gap is a symptom of power creep, like how bleeding is a symptom of a cut. I brought up Power creep because no gaming company has made a long term sustainable MMO without it being a problem, but have addressed other game concerns that PWI has not. But going further into this is a HUGE discussion that really drives us off the point of FF powerleveling access.

I referred to my response as off topic seeing as it really is another discussion in and of itself. But my point/reply is just my opinion of why PWI most likely wont change anything. Power Creep or Power gap(not that either matters in my opinion), whatever method is bringing in the most money and working, that's usually what any company will use.

Abonimus - Raging Tide · March 2013

Gia_onna - Archosaur wrote: »

This would so be great but judging from the QQing on Arch *rolls eyes*, there are more impatient new ppl wanting high lvls immediately, than those of us who prefer questing. There are also ppl who may have levelled a few toons w/out p/lvl but now want to p/lvl their 3rd or 4th alt. Personally, I would love a lvl 80 cap, in the hopes more ppl would quest or at least do BH39-69.
It would be nice if people would be interested in doing instances just for fun. No-one does alpha or beta rebirth and of course Nivy is dead.
Thx 4 ur suggestion

Unequal ammount of population for a question of great importance might not be smart. Forum polls are stupid as well.

Levels under 80 being unable to enter FC would be ideal. Everything else as it was before this buggy update ofc. Hypers and all.

Nry - Lost City · March 2013

The damage has been done to this game...you can't just remove frost from the game and maintain your current playerbase. If you even consider this you are a complete fool.

What happened with the goon glitch? People quit. What happened when the exp was nerfed on the goons but no one was punished? More people quit. What do you think will happen if noobs can't get to the same lvl as people who frosted to higher lvls? I don't think I have to answer.

Seriously the "devs" for this game are morons. PWE staff = complete trash.

Abonimus - Raging Tide · March 2013

Unseenrage - Harshlands wrote: »

Honestly, FC needs to stay in the game. It's one of the only decent ways to get from level 8x to 10x and for aps classes it's the best way to go beyond 100. What NEEDS to happen is it needs to be a level 80 or 90+ dungeon to stop things like alt FC and selling FC exp rooms.

I'm really disappointed about this, I've been playing pwi for a very long time and it was wonderful when hypers were introduced to FC. It's sad to see them go.

Well there is nothing wrong with selling FC rooms. Wrong thing is when they sell them for level ranges under the level 70-80.

So levels 40-50 get a hole zerg ammount of levels in 3-4 minutes work...

ColdEP - Harshlands · March 2013

JessyWolf - Archosaur wrote: »

Aww I have to be in the 80/90's to get it ? now that sucks lol I though it was just there, something new, replacing the old fox form, no need to do anything. Oh well, guess I am gonna have to level up then b:chuckle But thanks for replying ^.^

Aswell you have to be lvl 100 to learn the ugraded fox form and Butterfly form. The chain quest start at Venomancer Mei in lost. Gl when you get to it.

Maelael - Heavens Tear · March 2013

Toomaga - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I referred to my response as off topic seeing as it really is another discussion in and of itself. But my point/reply is just my opinion of why PWI most likely wont change anything. Power Creep or Power gap(not that either matters in my opinion), whatever method is bringing in the most money and working, that's usually what any company will use.

There's many subtle levels of power creep, and the idea is to keep the power creep continuing but attainable as so you don't kill your game. PWI seems to constantly flirt with that line. Other games cross it and kill themselves or survive via other positives the game has to offer. They're not going to change a business model for making money (That would be stupid) but they will hopefully attempt to do it in an attainable/reasonable way.

Also get your butt in more NW squads so you can make money and get R9. I'm up to about 20 friends/faction mates now that were in the "I'll never have R9" crowd that now have R9 thanks to NW and regular farming - no Merching needed.

I have a decent amount of faith in PWI wanting to ensure the game stays alive and avoids the death pitfalls that have killed other games. It may not be the sexiest money maker out there, but you never throw away a profitable business model. It seems they're thinking more into the future than they have prior, and the fact we have a communicative CR that seemingly IS getting results out of China, I can't complain.

There is a power gap between R9/R9rr and the other gearings, but it's not as FOMG of TT99/R8 vs R9, and it's WAY easier to obtain than it used to be with NW. I believe the game would have been more balanced without R9rr beings so obtainable, but ah well.

Either way gearing only relates to the FF Hyper situation insofar as hyper leveling DOES allow you to get to that competitive level quicker to better compete in TW and NW. However banning all hyper FFing is bad, as it does take a lot of time and effort to go through 80-100, and it's really boring. Getting facepunched for months instead of a few weeks in NW I imagine would be really discouraging.

GlenRoss - Archosaur · March 2013

Oups_Dead - Harshlands wrote: »

i would like smart ppl 2 tell me how someone can lvl up after 103 or 104 without fc? u gonna say pv? what if u r not a sin? now the ppl with some low IQ will say do cube man it gives u 1m exp do cs another 1m what about bh II 600k so great so easy guys every 5.5m exp is equivalent to 0.2% at 103 even aeu gives only 0,2% so u can get what ? 0,4% daily great

I use PV and I'm not a sin.

While I think that PWI could come up with a better way to help out the higher levels, I'm joining with the group calling for restriction instead of elimination of hypered fc. I strongly suspect that this would not quell the argument, though. I believe that many of the most vehement supporters of a return to the way things were are those who solo fc and sell heads. If PWI limits fc use, they'll have to find another income stream.

And btw, the ad hominems are unnecessary and do not improve your argument. You really don't want to get into a comparison of IQ. The fact that someone disagrees with you does not make them less intelligent than you.

If we had no fc, the game would still be here, still be playable, still be fun. The sprint to the end is unnecessary.

As to the "gap" that some are decrying, a gap is inevitable as some toons grow up and new ones come in at level 1. We could have all new players simply start out at level 90, then there would be no gap. That would serve no one. They would be robbed of the opportunity to learn how to play the game and we would be burdened with an even-worse patchwork of skilled and unskilled high-level players.

Let the littles be littles. They don't need to instantly be competitive with the bigs. Give them things to enjoy other than simply racing past their adolescence. Perhaps some war-like competition with a level cap. And let them earn their stripes.

There's no need to keep accelerating the game. It will still be here tomorrow. Play for today.

Maelael - Heavens Tear · March 2013

lordhanzo wrote: »

does the shortened class name in Guild Box intended or not?

Blademaster becomes just "Blade." with a period on it... >___>

Its also like that on the character select screen. Totally forgot I saw that this morning.

Nry - Lost City wrote: »

The damage has been done to this game...you can't just remove frost from the game and maintain your current playerbase. If you even consider this you are a complete fool.

What happened with the goon glitch? People quit. What happened when the exp was nerfed on the goons but no one was punished? More people quit. What do you think will happen if noobs can't get to the same lvl as people who frosted to higher lvls? I don't think I have to answer.

Seriously the "devs" for this game are morons. PWE staff = complete trash.

Name 10 people that quit from the goon glitch. Name 10 people that quit over the lack of punishment. Like actual, real people who put a lot of time and effort into the game.

I can't even name 10 random noobs who quit over it. It's still a giant mistake by the company and created a huge power gap in terms of level damage reduction - which is **** btw and could be remedied by changing some code - but wasn't that damaging to the overall play of the game.

The ONLY event I can think of that I saw a lot of people quit over was the TW map reset, and then that GeeDub Dos game came out, and school started. It was like a slow perfect storm.

And I'd say 75%-90% of those people came back when NW came out. I know some people who came back for the N3 gear upgrade, but it wasn't significant.

I_sage_i - Harshlands · March 2013

omg please change FC back!!!!! what the hell is wrong with you people saying keep it this way? like what the hell! like seriously you guys actually want to go back to grinding????

Veneir - Dreamweaver · March 2013

Wha FC hyper removed o-o
Keepitkeepitkeepitkeepit
((I mean probabily level restriction's a better option for compromise purposes, and also that's what's winning in the poll but +.+))

Tsukyini - Raging Tide · March 2013

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

I meant in addition to the forums not instead of the forums. There will be the issue of multivoting, but it opens the door to a lot more people who never view the forums but have liked PWE on facebook/twitter to receive items.

Oh, well in that case, I agree. b:cute

Oups_Dead - Harshlands wrote: »

i would like smart ppl 2 tell me how someone can lvl up after 103 or 104 without fc? u gonna say pv? what if u r not a sin? now the ppl with some low IQ will say do cube man it gives u 1m exp do cs another 1m what about bh II 600k so great so easy guys every 5.5m exp is equivalent to 0.2% at 103 even aeu gives only 0,2% so u can get what ? 0,4% daily great

Morai dailies + base quests + crazy stone + cube + 12 hours of deep reflection gives 1%ish per day.

I hit 104 on Feb 11, and as long as I continue my routine of dailies, I will hit 105 in 62 days, less if I get lucky with the extra exp from crazy stone (still haven't gotten a 10mil one yet).

Leveling past 103 is not *hard*. It is just tedious. The only hard part is forcing yourself to do your daily chores.

Anjin_fujiko - Sanctuary · March 2013

All they need to do is limted 1 enter of fcc per day and that FCC still be there for all lvl but ppl will actually need to learn to do something else beside doing fcc all day. Also that help solve the problem with aps sin farming it for coins.

get the Teacher NPC to drop the entree thingy once a day

GlenRoss - Archosaur · March 2013

Nry - Lost City wrote: »

What happened with the goon glitch? People quit. What happened when the exp was nerfed on the goons but no one was punished? More people quit. What do you think will happen if noobs can't get to the same lvl as people who frosted to higher lvls? I don't think I have to answer.

Seriously the "devs" for this game are morons. PWE staff = complete trash.

Inappropriate and not helpful to your argument.

I didn't see any mass exodus after jail was discontinued. I don't believe there was one. If a handful of people quit because they can't bypass the game, we're all better off.

SASSYxSIN - Dreamweaver · March 2013

In all honesty i believe there should be a minimum level at the most for FC (obviously they already found ways around that) but i dont believe that FC should be Unhyperable. i farm FC myself for spirit. So i vote that FC have like a minimum level requirement at the heads NPC. like heads cant be started if you arent high enough level or some such alternative to taking out hyper ability.

Longknife - Harshlands · March 2013

SinFulGodX - Sanctuary wrote: »

In weapon required class it now says "assass." and abbreviates all of them thats jsut an example.

Yeah that's a glitch. It should give them their proper abbreviation of ***.

Krystabela - Harshlands · March 2013

I have been playing this game since closed beta. Way back in the beginning things were a lot different. We played as a group, when we did fb's people actually knew what they were doing (and it wasn't like pulling teeth to get help). Not to long ago I took a lvl 39 character through fb with a level 10x character...the person didn't know anything about the cave, and died at least three or four times (no exaggeration either). I've been told that people can level their character to level 100 in less than a week. The above example is a result of that and I'm sure its not an isolated event. All of that being said...I am NOT opposed to hypers in the least. What I am opposed to is taking a level 1 character and bring it into fc so you can wander around the game and say that you are 10x. The number means absolutely NOTHING if you don't know either the game or your own character. Please keep the hypers but put a level limit on them. Don't make things more difficult for higher characters because others are to lazy to do it the right way.

FC discussion from undocumented changes (reference only)

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