FC discussion from undocumented changes (reference only)

Nuff_Said - Raging Tide

Outside of the FC sellers, I dont see how this would hurt FC buyers. Just do some pv and learn how to work with a squad for once

Tsukyini - Raging Tide

Savassan - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you want to make fast leveling like that more difficult then do this, make it NOT ALLOWED TO SELL FC BIG ROOMS!! Force people to do FC the way it was meant to be done, with a squad....

The problem is that they can't enforce that any more than they could enforce their rule against people doing the goon glitch. At most, they could get people to stop advertizing the sale of rooms in WC, but that's about it. They're not going to monitor every FC instance to see whether low levels join at the big room/pay money to the high level. Hell, if the seller had a low level doing heads, he could just make everyone pay his alt.

Also, people need to stop mistaking something being time consuming as being difficult. They're not the same thing.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Tsukyini - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yeah, if you're going to survey players about this, I would suggest setting it up where players are notified about it by email.

Were we notified by email requesting our opinion on whether we thought packs were a good idea? Or rep sales, or r9s3, or hell, the original change to Frost from its old purpose as a gear farming instance?

v4liance is quite rightly collecting our opinions here and forwarding them, for whatever wanmei believes them to be worth. Frankly, it's more outreach than PWE usually does. Don't jump on him now because he's actually doing what frankie never gave enough of a **** to do.

Father_gold - Sanctuary

v4liance wrote: »

Regarding the FCC issue:
- I'm seeing a lot of support to keep this change, or at least to have a modified version. Since it's on the table, I'll see if we can start discussing possible alternatives, such as setting a level limit, or a hyper exp lvl requirement for FCC. I cannot promise that we'll be able to get this fixed, let alone to everyone's satisfaction, but we'll do our best.

- Val

i think we've long since passed the point where FCC is an issue really. aside from the few ppl who are complaining, and complaining only because they wish to enforce their method of gameplay on others.

eliminating or altering fcc at this point is .... pointless.

if the exp for normal quests were rescaled so that they actually gave meaningful exp/spirit/coin rewards, more people would do them myself included.

maybe something unique in terms of instances, something like a morai but within a lvl CEILING that gives a reasonable lvl-independent rewards you can not get otherwise (fashion hint hint)

ijs, FCC is one of the last things there is left to farm coin from for ppl who dont/cant spend real money, NW has killed vana. why not start by giving life to a dead instance?

Cereliia - Archosaur

my opinion is Fc should be made set in level stages kind of like PV with different experience set for different levels kind of like pv. Not massive exp like pv but simply the set up.

Start out with groups 80-90 85-95 90-98 and 99+
Only if ever member in your squad is of the levels you choose can your squad hyper.
That will lower power leveling and hopefully reinstate the objective of full fc.

I think the bosses and maybe mobs after bubble boss should get an exp boost to again boast full fcs.

Change the mobs after heads, not the bosses bot the mobs after nix boss to make going all the way to holeen worth it.

If you do some of these things you lower the appeal of only hypering heads and make the rest of the instance appealing for those trying to level you cut back on power leveling as well as selling of exp rooms. Sure its a good way to make money for sins but it cripples the server with power level'd noobs that cant function in a squad.

When i was leveling my bm i learned so much from FC. I learned how to be a bm in a squad, what my role was, how to learn what other classes are doing and when to do what i needed to do because of FC. After the goon glitch was disabled fc was nothing more than powerleveling. The people who are positive about fc being disabled are people like me who want to be in random squads where people know how to function in a squad or who have taken time to gear themselves. It's not a race to 100. That is why people don't want hypers in fc, they want people to learn.

I don't think that disabling hypers is the right thing to do but i think some incentive to actually RUN fcs would be beneficial.

Thats just my two cents



Also there was apparently a mess up with TW pay to factions. no big notes, just mirages

Father_gold - Sanctuary

Descendus - Lost City wrote: »

Sure, because the BR Market is a good thing for the lower level BH's and hundreds of quests that almost no one tries to do anymore. Not.

We were fine without people throwing their characters into frost before the Genesis update, so what the bloody hell has changed now to make it so that we couldn't cope if they did make FC restricted to 80+? Nothing.

Oh a bunch of people QQing that they lost out on a specific level range of potential customers? Yeah, I think there's an old saying that fits for this kind of situation... "Deal with it".

simply put, we have that much more players at 100+ to start cutting people off from the area of the game where all the new content is. are they supposed to be excited for something they won't be able to see touch or use for another year?

Tsukyini - Raging Tide

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Were we notified by email requesting our opinion on whether we thought packs were a good idea? Or rep sales, or r9s3, or hell, the original change to Frost from its old purpose as a gear farming instance?

v4liance is quite rightly collecting our opinions here and forwarding them, for whatever wanmei believes them to be worth. Frankly, it's more outreach than PWE usually does. Don't jump on him now because he's actually doing what frankie never gave enough of a **** to do.

I'm not jumping on anyone. b:shocked

I don't care if they never change it back. I was just agreeing that the people who post on the forum are only a tiny portion of the actual players.

Theoclese - Harshlands

Tulipia - Dreamweaver wrote: »

All that's left now is the Jone's Blessing b:cute

Well, I have to disagree with this. Too many people have them stocked up in their mail boxes, and mailboxes of their alts on same account. For that matter, they can create many toons on one account, fill the mailbox with joneses, and account stash one any time they need it. So to take them out now would only give those people advantage over those that either have not done that or newer players.

Descendus - Lost City

Father_gold - Sanctuary wrote: »

simply put, we have that much more players at 100+ to start cutting people off from the area of the game where all the new content is. are they supposed to be excited for something they won't be able to see touch or use for another year?

NW is 60+ granted being stomped by all the R9s3's isn't all that fun but we'll keep to the matter at hand.

There are numerous other things you can do Pre 80, the recovery would be slow but it would be a start.

Getting to lvl 80 Does not take that long, especially now that you have instances like PV which, albeit is once a day per person who takes the quest to start, is still in addition to BH's and Quests that have been revamped for more exp and Coin, granted they could still help us out by reverting the DQ below the lvl 81 items back to normal NPC prices but hey, one thing at a time, you know?

Fact remains, this needs to be dealt with. NOW.

Theoclese - Harshlands

Tsukyini - Raging Tide wrote: »

I'm not jumping on anyone. b:shocked

I don't care if they never change it back. I was just agreeing that the people who post on the forum are only a tiny portion of the actual players.

well, the forums are available to everyone, just like being able to vote IRL.
and the same logic applies, if you want your voice heard, you better get on forums and give your opinion, just like if you don't like the current *** hat in office you can vote them out for a new *** hat!

Longknife - Harshlands

lordhanzo wrote: »

I actually checked the map immediately and laughed.. I don't know why..

Think of all the gear we can refine!!!

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Father_gold - Sanctuary wrote: »

simply put, we have that much more players at 100+ to start cutting people off from the area of the game where all the new content is. are they supposed to be excited for something they won't be able to see touch or use for another year?

I'm getting tired of this argument. Nobody's "cutting people off" from anything they used themselves. You talk as if 99% of Lv100 players abused Frost to get to where they are, and this is simply untrue. Most of us who debate it on the forums used Frost at only 75+ at the earliest, with or without hypers. Don't assume hypocrisy just because we want to preserve the actual game content in favor of Frost abuse.

soundslegit

I for one welcome our new Phoenix Valley overlords.

Father_gold - Sanctuary

Descendus - Lost City wrote: »

NW is 60+ granted being stomped by all the R9s3's isn't all that fun but we'll keep to the matter at hand.

There are numerous other things you can do Pre 80, the recovery would be slow but it would be a start.

Getting to lvl 80 Does not take that long, especially now that you have instances like PV which, albeit is once a day per person who takes the quest to start, is still in addition to BH's and Quests that have been revamped for more exp and Coin, granted they could still help us out by reverting the DQ below the lvl 81 items back to normal NPC prices but hey, one thing at a time, you know?

Fact remains, this needs to be dealt with. NOW.

the NW issue is not avoidable if we are talking the ability to participate though. lvl 60 in NW is gonna get what single digit tokens? might as well make the lower limit 100 while you are at it.

the DQ nerf is another aspect altogether as well, how are these people going to afford fixing gear for all the time they will be spending questing?

ppl complain about fcc babies, but all thats going to happen is we will have PV babies. can't avoid powerleveling anymore, we are too far gone.

Toomaga - Heavens Tear

Father_gold - Sanctuary wrote: »

the NW issue is not avoidable if we are talking the ability to participate though. lvl 60 in NW is gonna get what single digit tokens? might as well make the lower limit 100 while you are at it.

the DQ nerf is another aspect altogether as well, how are these people going to afford fixing gear for all the time they will be spending questing?

ppl complain about fcc babies, but all thats going to happen is we will have PV babies. can't avoid powerleveling anymore, we are too far gone.

If they changed PV to a non timed instance, i'd gladly do it over and over again. Leveling for my seeker is extremely easy, but then of course you would have lots more 105's running around. Can't have that now can web:chuckle.

Father_gold - Sanctuary

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm getting tired of this argument. Nobody's "cutting people off" from anything they used themselves. You talk as if 99% of Lv100 players abused Frost to get to where they are, and this is simply untrue. Most of us who debate it on the forums used Frost at only 75+ at the earliest, with or without hypers. Don't assume hypocrisy just because we want to preserve the actual game content in favor of Frost abuse.

removing a route to 100 IS cutting ppl off. disabling FCC does absolutely nothing to preserve game content either. the content is dated and old, even PWI proves it everyday as their agenda moves towards endgame-only content and additions. if they wanted us to enjoy lower levels we would have new content for it aside from boring quests. all the new skills, only a few are low lvl and even then they are 80. all they care about is endgame, all most of the players care about is endgame, why are even thinking about mid game, ain't nobody but a few even care about it and nobody is keeping you from experiencing it.

Abonimus - Raging Tide

Toomaga - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If they changed PV to a non timed instance, i'd gladly do it over and over again. Leveling for my seeker is extremely easy, but then of course you would have lots more 105's running around. Can't have that now can web:chuckle.

Then there is no point in having the FC hyper closed is there ? b:laugh

skaitavia

As always, thanks for addressing the issues in a timely manner Val.

v4liance wrote: »

Regarding the FCC issue:
- I'm seeing a lot of support to keep this change, or at least to have a modified version. Since it's on the table, I'll see if we can start discussing possible alternatives, such as setting a level limit, or a hyper exp lvl requirement for FCC. I cannot promise that we'll be able to get this fixed, let alone to everyone's satisfaction, but we'll do our best.

- Val

I'm really liking the idea of setting a hyper exp level requirement for FCC.

Abonimus - Raging Tide

Father_gold - Sanctuary wrote: »

removing a route to 100 IS cutting ppl off. disabling FCC does absolutely nothing to preserve game content either. the content is dated and old, even PWI proves it everyday as their agenda moves towards endgame-only content and additions. if they wanted us to enjoy lower levels we would have new content for it aside from boring quests. all the new skills, only a few are low lvl and even then they are 80. all they care about is endgame, all most of the players care about is endgame, why are even thinking about mid game, ain't nobody but a few even care about it and nobody is keeping you from experiencing it.

Indeed.

This game is , if im not wrong, one of the oldest MMORPG's out there. Also its content is aged and having it revamp completely just wont work.

I for myself just want to get to top level so i can have fun grinding through end game dungeons and doing some of the story quests easily w/o problems.

Also TW and NW sound fun but going there as underleveled seeker w/o skills in Morai gear and being 1-2 shot every time wont be fun at all.

Toomaga - Heavens Tear

Abonimus - Raging Tide wrote: »

Polls dont work. They dont work on forums, no facebook, twitter or via email.

Making alt accounts to vote on polls is quite easy and a "job" of that size for a "question" that requires common sence is more then stupid ...

Hyper in FC is not a bad thing also. Its good, but the ability for the levels under those that may open the doors and port back at the last boss to power level inside is however not good.

Imho leaving the Hyper "bugged" will not end well and i am hoping i dont have to see it.

Another point I want to add to this, is that PWI is a very strongly end game oriented now, I don't see how leaving the lower levels to level at a much slower pace will benefit them. As far as I am concerned leveling to 100 helps them at least make a some decent coin from the rewards and opens a few more doors to making some money.

ShawtyStar - Raging Tide

1) Frostcovered City no longer supports hyper exp.

b:victorykeep it this way

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Father_gold - Sanctuary wrote: »

removing a route to 100 IS cutting ppl off. disabling FCC does absolutely nothing to preserve game content either. the content is dated and old, even PWI proves it everyday as their agenda moves towards endgame-only content and additions. if they wanted us to enjoy lower levels we would have new content for it aside from boring quests. all the new skills, only a few are low lvl and even then they are 80. all they care about is endgame, all most of the players care about is endgame, why are even thinking about mid game, ain't nobody but a few even care about it and nobody is keeping you from experiencing it.

They already buffed most lowgame and midgame quest rewards to make them more attractive, and lowered the monster counts of most of them to less than half of their original requirements. How much more do you want?

Let's be clear on what's being argued here. Particularly in the poll thread, people are talking about implementing a level restriction on using hypers in frost. Hence you'd still be able to use them if you're 75 or maybe 85+, where quest and BH experience gains drop off and you start to need something like frost to make up the gap. What's being removed, if they actually listen, is the ability for people to skip the entire lowgame and midgame by living in frost.

Abonimus - Raging Tide

Toomaga - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Another point I want to add to this, is that PWI is a very strongly end game oriented now, I don't see how leaving the lower levels to level at a much slower pace will benefit them. As far as I am concerned leveling to 100 helps them at least make a some decent coin from the rewards and opens a few more doors to making some money.

There has been very little lower level content in last updates to begin with in order to even think about removing the Hyper's from FC.

Problem is not in the fact ppl level in FC squads from 80+ (or w/e the level doors were opened at) problem is lower level characters leveled from 0 to like 60 in a few FC's and there is sufficient content for them to have fun in here with.

Removing this way of leveling for levels from 80 to 100 would be futile for the game in the long run.

Also the community manager should know already asking for ppl on forums for a answer on such a problem is not productive as real game "newbies" which are in the game for a few months dont really come on the forum at all. Nor will they be interested to talk about a problem they dont know about yet, or wont know about yet for another few levels.

Toomaga - Heavens Tear

Abonimus - Raging Tide wrote: »

There has been very little lower level content in last updates to begin with in order to even think about removing the Hyper's from FC.

Problem is not in the fact ppl level in FC squads from 80+ (or w/e the level doors were opened at) problem is lower level characters leveled from 0 to like 60 in a few FC's and there is sufficient content for them to have fun in here with.

Removing this way of leveling for levels from 80 to 100 would be futile for the game in the long run.

Also the community manager should know already asking for ppl on forums for a answer on such a problem is not productive as real game "newbies" which are in the game for a few months dont really come on the forum at all. Nor will they be interested to talk about a problem they dont know about yet, or wont know about yet for another few levels.

Thats exactly how I feel, I can't speak for every player, but PWI really does not have anything much entertaining to do for low levels to even begin to keep them wanting to level slowly just to see what is up ahead next. Out of all the quest I have done there is only 1 memorable quest I always liked and that is the Goshki Quest Chain.

And yes I also agree asking the forums to vote really is not the best way to get an answer. Several in game announcements across all severs asking them to take a survey/vote would at least make the results a little more reasonable I think.

DrizzitDo - Dreamweaver

this should Stay like this this game is way to easy and needs some difficultly
Instead make Nirvy instance a 100+ xp instance thats be nice Start to being able to raising the level cap

Xhalf_pintX - Archosaur

Yes removing hyper use in fc may romove a lot of noobs from the game but look at it from a wider point of view

Remove fc means sins cant sell them for coin this then means more sins will be running TT
for drops this in turn will drive down the price of tt gold mats in turn will rip the market out of them like it did raps and cannies when nw started.

This in turn will drive the farmers out of the game as there is no way of making money also no fc means no plvled new players as they are the people who are most likely to cash shop means a huge drop in money income for pwi so any action taken like stopping fc means pwi face a potential huge loss of income unless they develop a new way of making coin in game that is as good as if not better than the current way also a new way to lvl at high lvl lets not forget you can still get to lvl 80 just as easy as fc by getting plvled at the zhen pits.

Toomaga - Heavens Tear

DrizzitDo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

this should Stay like this this game is way to easy and needs some difficultly
Instead make Nirvy instance a 100+ xp instance thats be nice Start to being able to raising the level cap

So what you're saying basically is cap FC, then randomly turn Nirvana into and exp instance? I personally would prefer Nirvana to drop Badgesb:dirty..I'd farm that all day omg...

Abonimus - Raging Tide

Toomaga - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Thats exactly how I feel, I can't speak for every player, but PWI really does not have anything much entertaining to do for low levels to even begin to keep them wanting to level slowly just to see what is up ahead next. Out of all the quest I have done there is only 1 memorable quest I always liked and that is the Goshki Quest Chain.

And yes I also agree asking the forums to vote really is not the best way to get an answer. Several in game announcements across all severs asking them to take a survey/vote would at least make the results a little more reasonable I think.

And yes i am only stating my own opinion on this matter ofc.

In last 3 major updates (those i know about) there was ZERO usefull content for levels from 80-95 when it comes to leveling. Morai will take ages to level up from 95-100 as well. It is usefull but at least a few months of doing daily quests or nolifing mobs would have to happend.

I like the game's "story" and the quest chain but at around level 60 the need for quests dies out and there is no more use to do them anymore.

Now "grinding" through mobs, BH and similar would be right around ok up to level 80 but from 80 to 100 .... It will be a nightmare. It is simply not possible anymore to have players leveling and getting gear for years to come. Not to mention new MMORPG's are comming out with new content and graphics that will outdate the PWi even more when it comes to leveling, grinding and the game story.

And since i do believe PWi GM's cannot focus on making major updates for levels 80-100 with content that would give removing hypers in FC some logic, putting it back as it was would be good untill you guys have a working update to replace the agefull grind with some "quests" that give more then 20.000exp and spirit for 100 mobs killed when you need 5m exp for level.

Toomaga - Heavens Tear

Abonimus - Raging Tide wrote: »

And yes i am only stating my own opinion on this matter ofc.

In last 3 major updates (those i know about) there was ZERO usefull content for levels from 80-95 when it comes to leveling. Morai will take ages to level up from 95-100 as well. It is usefull but at least a few months of doing daily quests or nolifing mobs would have to happend.

I like the game's "story" and the quest chain but at around level 60 the need for quests dies out and there is no more use to do them anymore.

Now "grinding" through mobs, BH and similar would be right around ok up to level 80 but from 80 to 100 .... It will be a nightmare. It is simply not possible anymore to have players leveling and getting gear for years to come. Not to mention new MMORPG's are comming out with new content and graphics that will outdate the PWi even more when it comes to leveling, grinding and the game story.

And since i do believe PWi GM's cannot focus on making major updates for levels 80-100 with content that would give removing hypers in FC some logic, putting it back as it was would be good untill you guys have a working update to replace the agefull grind with some "quests" that give more then 20.000exp and spirit for 100 mobs killed when you need 5m exp for level.

All the quest's need is a bigger boost in exp and spirit gain, and the mobs should give much more exp and maybe even drop a larger value worth of coins. It would actually bring a very nice aspect of grinding to make money into this game.

Abonimus - Raging Tide

Toomaga - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So what you're saying basically is cap FC, then randomly turn Nirvana into and exp instance? I personally would prefer Nirvana to drop Badgesb:dirty..I'd farm that all day omg...

Hes saying they should make the gap even bigger i believe ...

Not that i see any sence in that but hey. Sence has no place in a troll infested forums.

"Game needs to be harder for lower levels then i am and easier for myself" *facepalm*