Nation War Math Thread
Comments
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Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »Exact amount of extra contribution per flag capture is 165. Flag capture does not contribute to personal ranking, only to extra contribution at the end. That information has already been included under chapter 1, note 2.
People who only pk's are usually don't give a fudge or don't understand the implication of loosing. For the people who only read superficially, I will just put it in highlight.
YOU DONT WANT TO LOSE ANY BATTLE. LOSING BEARS HEAVY PENALTY ON PERSONAL CREDITS. YOU ONLY GET 35%* OF WHAT YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO EARN IF YOU LOSE.
*35% is just an estimate. My other 2 estimate is 33.3% and 40%. But those are still considered to be heavy penalties
i got 1427 on a losing battle. I was ranked number 1. Total was about 27k or 24k. So, by 35% I should get around 4.2k? This doesn't seem right.0 -
MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »i got 1427 on a losing battle. I was ranked number 1. Total was about 27k or 24k. So, by 35% I should get around 4.2k? This doesn't seem right.
I supposed u had less than 20 on your team.
If you had won, you would have earned 3k credits. (max)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »I supposed u had less than 20 on your team.
If you had won, you would have earned 3k credits. (max)
I was going to ask the same thing as mini, guess i'll just work it out eventually, but so far happy with nw.0 -
It happened to me that i got into a land (20 vs 2 players [im one of those 20]). then after 20 seconds my nation win (of course i havent killed anyone or anything) and i get the "rank 2"
I mean, c'mon 19 ppl, someone have carryed the flag or recibed/deal dmg or whatever (not me) so why do i get the rank 2?
That thing its still getting me confused about how it works
I dont have a SS of that but it happens once in a while so the next time ill make sure to get one
There is another thing im curious about, as far as i know if you deal or receive dmg you get more points but what it actualy "deal dmg"? cuz if you wait at the enemy respawn point and kill someone that have respawned there (w.o charm), lets say he have idk... 1k hp (?)
Anyway... if you oneshot him for 10k dmg (but he have 1k hp) what its actualy the dmg dealt? its 10k? its 1k?
And for him, whats the dmg receive?
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Transferring excel data into an online-friendly spreadsheet... will also update main posts when I get some free time...
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Alk3LZc0R1JKdGVDYkJWRlQ4RlM4Tlo2MVhzNDVLalE[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
i think it should be mentioned, that when u leave a battlefield (for example due to 6 deaths) you still get your points, but that it will be reset when u reenter the same battlefield
happened to me during a nw
was fighting 15 min and died 6 times, i reentered the war (took me like 2 minutes) and only got around 300 points after a 22 minutes war(and i killed alot, delivered flag once, digged it 4 other times [we had no barb])0 -
WenSon - Harshlands wrote: »i think it should be mentioned, that when u leave a battlefield (for example due to 6 deaths) you still get your points, but that it will be reset when u reenter the same battlefield
happened to me during a nw
was fighting 15 min and died 6 times, i reentered the war (took me like 2 minutes) and only got around 300 points after a 22 minutes war(and i killed alot, delivered flag once, digged it 4 other times [we had no barb])
Do u remember or have a screen shot of your ranking? win or lose?
This is the first time someone reports this![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Updates: (Chapter 1 only)
1. Credit Penalty on losing has been more accurately calculated to be -60% penalty (you only earn 40% of what you are supposed to earn as personal credits).
2. Winning now bear a bonus of 10% credits... as per a few weeks ago. I think pwi 'forgot' to mention this in the patch notes...
3. Even if you are alone on your team, the share of the credits is as if there were 5 people on the same team.
4. Included link to my online worksheet
5. Fixed some typo's, paste errors, improved some formatting (To make it more easy to read)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
so dealing damage does not increase your team's total score but only your ranking?youtube channel: youtube.com/user/chezedude0
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Mooooooooo - Lost City wrote: »so dealing damage does not increase your team's total score but only your ranking?
yuesh[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I've been told proximity to the flag/flag spawn points effects the contribution you gain. (This is from someone who tested spawn camping 1 battle and ended up getting very little contribution.) Is this true?
Or is it just that proximity to the flag usually means more damage taken so you naturally have higher contribution?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
id have to diagree w/ the findings cause my score has ranged diffrently or maybe RT has diffrent % of outcome per battle not sure but i see my score diffrent then the following0
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I'm more interested in how it calculates for damage avoided with effects like Focused Mind or shells (Plume Shell, Wings of Protection etc), AD/IG, Psy Will/Expell, defense levels. Basically anything that changes the damage you WOULD take.
Say for example, a seeker hits a cleric. The seeker has full R9RR+12 full DoT,3sparks,QPQs HF, EP+TM+Frenzy AND gets a zerk and crit with a heavy physical skill.
Say the cleric's base pdef is terrible, BUT they are using pdef charms, wings of protection, guardian Light, Plume Shell, and are full JoSD w/O'Malley.
So, instead of taking 100K from the zerk crit, they only took say 10K or less.
Would the cleric get credit for taking a 100K hit, since it was their own effects that reduced it so much, or would it be credit for the 10K
(Yes, I know, EXTREMELY unrealistic and exaggerated situation, but it works to pose a question I suppose)Current Gears
pwcalc.com/90f636550cbd5beb0 -
Geshwur - Raging Tide wrote: »I'm more interested in how it calculates for damage avoided with effects like Focused Mind or shells (Plume Shell, Wings of Protection etc), AD/IG, Psy Will/Expell, defense levels. Basically anything that changes the damage you WOULD take.
Say for example, a seeker hits a cleric. The seeker has full R9RR+12 full DoT,3sparks,QPQs HF, EP+TM+Frenzy AND gets a zerk and crit with a heavy physical skill.
Say the cleric's base pdef is terrible, BUT they are using pdef charms, wings of protection, guardian Light, Plume Shell, and are full JoSD w/O'Malley.
So, instead of taking 100K from the zerk crit, they only took say 10K or less.
Would the cleric get credit for taking a 100K hit, since it was their own effects that reduced it so much, or would it be credit for the 10K
(Yes, I know, EXTREMELY unrealistic and exaggerated situation, but it works to pose a question I suppose)
Should get for 100k im barb and i get nearly 80% my points tanking damage, and i use invoke/solid shield/magic def charm etc to tank as long as possible.. So i assume, it is damage before reduction else barbs wouldnt get so much points tanking..
This is what i assume i may be incorrect dont quote me on it xD0 -
There is some kind of ranking based on soul force/level automatically when you first enter the nation. So if you're pretty low level you can pretty much assume you're in last place and will need to work your way up. I was in a 2 versus 0 with one other person and captured both flags, and still came in second place despite the other person doing nothing at all. He beat me simply because he was higher level and/or more soulforce than me. I'm assuming it was probably soulforce.0
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Thank you for the post b:thanksMagnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
In short form, if your nation (the leading nation) wants to maximise the amount of bonus tokens, do not feed on the last nation.Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
YOU DONT WANT TO LOSE ANY BATTLE. LOSING BEARS HEAVY PENALTY ON PERSONAL CREDITS. YOU ONLY GET 35%* OF WHAT YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO EARN IF YOU LOSE.
b:surrenderb:surrender
too bad we cant force everyone to read this post....
so there will always be people in NW who just focus on pvp n disregard the flag/flagger completely .... b:irritatedb:irritated0 -
pls put a changelog on the 1 posts b:surrender0
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I post changelogs when I will update the core information. Other than this, I just changing formatting, highlight important points, change wordings, correcting typos, move stuff around, putting stuff in quote-box, etc.. i.e it makes things easier to read, not worth mentioning in a changelog.
I'm currently waiting on a few things to finalise chapter 4.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
theres 1 more thing.. ive heard but not tested but is kinda true i think - if you are attacking land for the first time and you win you get **** points. if you re-capture a lost land you get more points. if you defend your own land you get more points.
any info on this?
if you kill a flag carrier you get more points?
what about receiving points after 'leaving battlefield' or being kicked after 6 deaths - is it the same thing?
also what if i 'join' and 'leave' 10 ongoing battles in 10 minutes, wich battle do i get points for? or does your previous score nullify after entering a new battle? that way is better to wait it off until last battle is over (?)
thanks who has info on this
/good thread 0 -
Ignathas - Sanctuary wrote: »theres 1 more thing.. ive heard but not tested but is kinda true i think - if you are attacking land for the first time and you win you get **** points. if you re-capture a lost land you get more points. if you defend your own land you get more points.
any info on this?
if you kill a flag carrier you get more points?
what about receiving points after 'leaving battlefield' or being kicked after 6 deaths - is it the same thing?
also what if i 'join' and 'leave' 10 ongoing battles in 10 minutes, wich battle do i get points for? or does your previous score nullify after entering a new battle? that way is better to wait it off until last battle is over (?)
thanks who has info on this
/good thread
Defending or attacking does NOT affects the amount of personal points you get in battle. As long as you run into 'big fights' (both in terms of quality of enemy and time in battle), the total available credits will be high.
Killing the flag carrier indirectly gives you more points by increasing the chance of winning the instance. In general, when you chase the flag carrier, it is very likely that there will be enemies supporting the flag carrier. Lots of enemies group-up is the perfect situation to blast some AOE to earn higher ranking. Damage on multiple enemy > damage on single target.
You get points for all 10 instances as long as you manage to physically teleport inside all 10 instance. I know where this is going and it is not advisable to build an entire credit-strategy behind it because:
1. You will be sent back to base if just one of instances gets full before you walk in.
2. You will be sent back to base if you try to leave a battle and the last position is under attack, under control of another enemy, or under protection.
3. Even if you managed to join and leave multiple instances in a row, you will earn tiny amount amount of credits for each instance because you will most likely get very low rank in most of the instances.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
ok ... here is some of my exp ... might help in your "quest of finding the secrets behind nw" :P
1. cleric lv 8x, i've got 3.9k credit only by beeing in the right place at the right time, not fighting, not healing, just geting killed from time to time (was doin my nails b:surrender so i could not play properly) - i was in the winning faction and for 3.9k credits i gor 0 tokens
2. cleric lv 8x, 2.5k credits for heeling and fighting (mostly in deffence battles), bdw ... healing does give extra credit, again in the winning faction, and i've got 149 tokens
3 cleric lv 9x, 3.5k credits, better gear, healing and fighting (mostly deffence), in the winning faction i've got 110 tokens ><
4. don't leave nw after 1 hour or so, even if u have a lot of credits ... hapend to have a net problem and again with 2.5k credit, winning faction, at 8x i've got 47 tokens ><
p.s i allways play in squad of ...1 b:laugh0 -
ForestHaze - Momaganon wrote: »ok ... here is some of my exp ... might help in your "quest of finding the secrets behind nw" :P
1. cleric lv 8x, i've got 3.9k credit only by beeing in the right place at the right time, not fighting, not healing, just geting killed from time to time (was doin my nails b:surrender so i could not play properly) - i was in the winning faction and for 3.9k credits i gor 0 tokens
2. cleric lv 8x, 2.5k credits for heeling and fighting (mostly in deffence battles), bdw ... healing does give extra credit, again in the winning faction, and i've got 149 tokens
3 cleric lv 9x, 3.5k credits, better gear, healing and fighting (mostly deffence), in the winning faction i've got 110 tokens ><
4. don't leave nw after 1 hour or so, even if u have a lot of credits ... hapend to have a net problem and again with 2.5k credit, winning faction, at 8x i've got 47 tokens ><
p.s i allways play in squad of ...1 b:laugh
Im going to underline some misconceptions first...
1. Being a cleric or not, does not matter.
2. Level, does not matter.
3. Saying that you were in the winning nation is pointless if you cannot provide the actual score distribution of that NW. (There is a difference between a winning nation with a score 250 and another winning nation with a score of 300)
4. Whatever you do inside an instance (wherever you want to afk, eat, fight, ****, heal, dance, run flags or spawn kill), you still get a ranking based on the number of people inside that instance. Ranking is what gives personal credits.
5. Wherever or not you are going to earn tokens or no tokens does not depend on your personal credits.
6. wherever you come late or leave early does not really matter either.
As a general rule of thumbs (applicable to most US servers)
In a nation with a score of around 300, people will earn around 20 tokens for every 1000 credits.
In a nation with a score of around 240, people will earn around 15 tokens for every 1000 credits.
In a nation with a score of around 220, people will earn around 12 tokens for every 1000 credits.
In a nation with a score of around 190, people will earn around 10 tokens for every 1000 credits.
In a nation with a score of around 130, people will earn around 5 token for every 1000 credits.
Note: actual numbers usually fell within +-25% margins from NW to NW, which corresponds to variation of number of people in nation, loosing nation score, server, player performance within a nation, base-locking etc...
I've have never seen any person getting more than 30 tokens for every 1000 credits. Yet, you manage to show numbers as high as 60 tokens for every 1000 credits. On other populated servers, getting 47 tokens out of 2.5k credits in a winning nation is a very-realistic number. I know for a fact that momaganon is a underpopulated server like lotharis with 150< people per nation (as compared to 300 on other servers): Total tokens are lower, performance is different, strategy is different...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Has any testing been done in regards to whether or not more points are scored for targets in which you receive the kill? That is, would you receive the same contribution by doing 99% of the damage on someone but not receiving the kill as you would by doing 99% of the damage on someone and receiving the kill?
Please let me know, thanks in advance!Zsw -104 Sage Assassin
TehZsw - 100 Demon Archer
All Luck No Skillz PvPer: youtube.com/user/zsw0070 -
What does determine the initial rankings, before any damage is done? The reason I ask is that a few weeks ago I did a 2 person versus 0 flag walk. I initiated the war, and captured BOTH of the flags and still got second place in that war. I did get a speed boost by the other person. So was it because they buffed me? I can't really think of any other reason on why they should have been ranked higher when they contributed less to the actual war and there was no pvp at all at any point.
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oVenusArmanio wrote: »What does determine the initial rankings, before any damage is done? The reason I ask is that a few weeks ago I did a 2 person versus 0 flag walk. I initiated the war, and captured BOTH of the flags and still got second place in that war. I did get a speed boost by the other person. So was it because they buffed me? I can't really think of any other reason on why they should have been ranked higher when they contributed less to the actual war and there was no pvp at all at any point.
My first guess is soul force. It was a tip from a +12 friend who gets rank 1 in empty instances. But this is only a factor that contributes little to ranking... In other words, once you get into pvp, minor factors gets overridden by the 3 major factors: dealing damage, tanking damage, killing.
Honestly, I am not looking to confirm any of the minor factors like: buffing, healing, or soulforce because
1. minor factors will always get overridden by being engaged into pvp.
2. In instance where there is no pvp, the total amount of credits available is very small anyways.
3. As a observer point of view, it is more difficult to measure/compare buffs/heals to damage. Trying to find the answer to question like 'How much is the value of 1 buff in terms of damage?' is close to impossible.... unless a developer decides to be nice and post all the details, assuming that some of the minor contributors even exits. On the other hand, pvp factors are more obvious and can be quantified/compared. I can check my HP charm or my damage log to know that I tanked over 100k damage in 1 instance or I open the map to check on my kills and compared it to the total allied kills.
Anyways, you've still got more credits than him for capping both flags. ~600(you) v/s ~290 (him). If you were to be rank 1 instead in that situation, the additional credits would be 33...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »My first guess is soul force. It was a tip from a +12 friend who gets rank 1 in empty instances. But this is only a factor that contributes little to ranking... In other words, once you get into pvp, minor factors gets overridden by the 3 major factors: dealing damage, tanking damage, killing.
Honestly, I am not looking to confirm any of the minor factors like: buffing, healing, or soulforce because
1. minor factors will always get overridden by being engaged into pvp.
2. In instance where there is no pvp, the total amount of credits available is very small anyways.
3. As a observer point of view, it is more difficult to measure/compare buffs/heals to damage. Trying to find the answer to question like 'How much is the value of 1 buff in terms of damage?' is close to impossible.... unless a developer decides to be nice and post all the details, assuming that some of the minor contributors even exits. On the other hand, pvp factors are more obvious and can be quantified/compared. I can check my HP charm or my damage log to know that I tanked over 100k damage in 1 instance or I open the map to check on my kills and compared it to the total allied kills.
Anyways, you've still got more credits than him for capping both flags. ~600(you) v/s ~290 (him). If you were to be rank 1 instead in that situation, the additional credits would be 33...
I think it's helpful to know things like if damage healed is something worth doing as a support class, or in my case what would be that determining factor because I have nothing but low level toons on Heaven's Tear. Lowbies are probably gonna automatically be ranked last and have to build their way up. I am also not doing very much damage on my lowbie. Most of my contribution is coming from stuns, buffs, and tanking damage instead. And I have never not received tokens, so there must be some kind of factor other than skill. Cuz I could be the pro'est player in the world, wouldn't matter. And I'm definitely not. Its a level 7x that did better as a 6x. There is something I am missing here. So I was just curious about some of the minor factors. :P But I guess they are too hard to quantify. b:surrender0 -
I highly doubt the points you score is affected by your soul force, if it is then it will just be very bias of the devs. It just means that when there is no pvp battle involved, scoring is based on your gear, level and class since soul force is determined by gear refinements and gear bonuses. If you are a low lvl, you are likely going to have low level gear that aren't very well refine and have less soul force. If you are a psychic, then you will score higher than your peers with similar gear since you can get more soul force.
I haven't read any posts on this, but has anyone considered or with proof that the time you spend in a map instance can also determine your overall points? I took my cleric buffing alt into NW last week. I would station my main char in the battle field first before maneuvering my cleric to the same location. There were a few times that my main char arrived to the battle about under a min earlier than my cleric, but I didn't do anything with either chars as the battle was over as my cleric arrived into the instance. I had noticed that my main ranked and score higher than the cleric.0 -
Just dropping in for a quick question: last week one of my squadmates was afraid to re-enter a battle she was tossed out of due to a rumor that re-entering battles you've been tossed out of makes you lose any personal credits you'd gotten before.
Truth or BS?I
AGOREY0 -
Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »Just dropping in for a quick question: last week one of my squadmates was afraid to re-enter a battle she was tossed out of due to a rumor that re-entering battles you've been tossed out of makes you lose any personal credits you'd gotten before.
Truth or BS?
Pretty sure BS. Died 6 times, came back, still got first rank and we won.0 -
Today in a battle it was 4 v 20 (we were 4), we lost the battle at the end, but i got 2068 credits from that battle, I thought if we lose the battle the max we can get is 35% of 3000?
I am confused, how can I get 2068 in a losing battle if 3000 is the max cap?
It went for 10+ mins and opponents had few very good geared people (r999,r9s and g16s with good refines) if that makes any difference?0
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