No class is needed

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

I will say that when I was a new player it frustrated whenever I ran into people wouldn't just call stuff by it's name. It's confusing. Thankfully on DW most people did call stuff by it's name and so it was less aggravating. PPL on HT dont' though and I do get annoyed by it because it takes me a minute to remember which terms are which, since that's not it's name.

o.o I though we called everything by name on HT. Which ones are confusing? Unless you mean you guys say the full names and we abbreviate? Admittedly we are too lazy as a server to type out full names. xD

Of course things like FF/FC have two different and equally correct names. When you port inside, it is called Frostcovered City, but when you look at the map, it is called Forgotten Frostland. I think we tended toward calling it FF because when we said Frostcovered City some people were confusing it with the FB Secret Frostcovered Grounds.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

I don't know where RB come from too I check the name of the instance many times and can't find why RB while as you saw I find something for GV that is related to that version of the game.

Most people refer to this instance as Rebirth (followed by the appropriate name to indicate its level range, like Delta). Which of course we just shorten to RB because we are lazy.

Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I know you are trolling... but that part in RED for emphasis:

MYSTICS PLEASE DON'T KNOCK BACK THE @#$% MOBS !!

I swear... there is NOTHING more annoying in Delta than watching some stupid Mystic knocking mobs out of the aoe DD's range. I mean, why oh God why ? b:sad


Other than that... I'm cool with Mystics in my squad for Delta or any other instance, really. b:cute

I'm fine with any class in my groups when doing Delta, but knocking mobs back or sealing them is counter productive, especially when in a group that has something that can tank them without issue. It's very annoying, and this annoyance dates back to the days of FC when barbs would knock mobs back when I'm trying to AoE. Jerkfaces.

tweakz wrote: »

It doesn't happen. The actual AoE of Dragon's Breath and Vortex are much larger than they appear visually. The seal serves to protect the tank and reduce their repair costs as well as being one of the best damage dealers when stacked with Lucky Break, and or eruption. It can be annoying for some melee but often worth tolerating.

It makes all AA squads go smooth.

If it's an all AA squad then they can seal and knockbock all they want, because if it's all AA that means I'm not in it. I've never had a Mystic I've run with one shot, the only one to come close was ages ago and even then it was never a one shot even when I was HFing. Granted, I haven't run with highly refined and high geared Mystics, but my point remains. The seal is annoying and counter productive to damage if you're with a group of melees. But as I said, if you're in a full arcane squad, go for it, 'cause full Arcanes means a BM isn't there. b:chuckle

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

I'm fine with any class in my groups when doing Delta, but knocking mobs back or sealing them is counter productive, especially when in a group that has something that can tank them without issue. It's very annoying, and this annoyance dates back to the days of FC when barbs would knock mobs back when I'm trying to AoE. Jerkfaces.



If it's an all AA squad then they can seal and knockbock all they want, because if it's all AA that means I'm not in it. I've never had a Mystic I've run with one shot, the only one to come close was ages ago and even then it was never a one shot even when I was HFing. Granted, I haven't run with highly refined and high geared Mystics, but my point remains. The seal is annoying and counter productive to damage if you're with a group of melees. But as I said, if you're in a full arcane squad, go for it, 'cause full Arcanes means a BM isn't there. b:chuckle

Reminds me of this effing archer that wouldnt BoA nor use the metal AoE. He would run in and KB all the mobs in FC back in days, had I been squad lead, I would of kicked his fail *** off squad the 2nd time he did it.

It`s not really KB that drives me crazy with mystics, it`s the damn seal they do. With seal, they go and run outside range of set AoEs and ranged mobs tend to stick outside range. While on barb it`s pretty easy to fix, on sin it`s quite a bit more annoying.

In an attempt to bring us back to topic... let me just say that what's "needed" for any instance depends on your definition of "need" (which players in this game in general seem to have problems with at an alarming frequency). If what you "need" is just to do the run at all, then no, you don't need, say, a Barb for Metal. You'd certainly need some kind of healer and some kind of tank, but not a specific class.

That said, there are also runs where you don't want to do the run without the ideal classes because anything less could be an unacceptable time investment (especially if you're seeking randoms and you don't know if that random mystic is godly or a complete idiot). When I play FF on my BM, for instance, sometimes I'll WC for Barb OR Cleric. If I get a cleric, I'm more comfortable tanking myself. If I get a barb, tanking will be less of an issue and a mystic should be able to do well under most circumstances. Could I feasibly do a run with my BM as tank and a (let's say competent) mystic healing? Sure I could. But it's a bit of a risk, and sometimes we want to take that risk and sometimes we don't.

The key is knowing the difference between "ideal" and "workable," and consciously deciding which type of squad you're willing to make on that particular day. The primary problem, particularly in squads seeking randoms, is that the WCer confuses the former for the latter... in essence, being completely unwilling to try any alternative squad arrangement because he quite stupidly believes that the ideal classes are absolutely necessary to the success of the run.

And then of course there are the squads who insist on APS kills, which to me just screams "unreasonable impatience." But to each their own, I suppose. -_-;

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

No class is absolutely needed for anything, thought it depend on the squad, but try to tell that to people and they just leave squad.

I did every BH in that game without cleric and barb and sin.

Totally agreed with this as well as most of what the OP said.

I often laugh at people who drop squads claiming we won't be able to do this and that without x class. b:chuckle

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

Good topic.

One of the best compliments I've ever gotten ingame came at the end of a Caster run: "I will NEVER turn down a BM for caster again!"

Depend which BM. Some BM are totally **** and DG without saying it, without people sparking. Some time you tell them to say when he gonna DG or at least to do it when he see people spark and they continue to DG without say or spark....

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

No wonder mystics have bad reputation about being DD on other servers....

If it take you over 10 seconds to kill the wave than you and/or your squad do something wrong, when I'm in a GV after max 5 seconds there's no mobs still alive...

Keep the server I'm on in mind.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

No idea of the real name, I'm not BM, I don't know the real name of every class skills, BM my server call it like that so do I.

Heaven's Flame, well at least that is what someone was referring to when they said it to me. :P

tweakz wrote: »

Cragglord cost 1905 mp, 2 sparks and is very timing dependent with HF and SS for effectiveness. Thicket is also 2 sparks and silences / freezes (same effect as GF). Aren't you basically burning MP and chi super fast? Would Lucky Break / Gale Force and Storm Mistress not be much cheaper and more effective?

That combo was definitely easier/cheaper to pull off back when deltas were still ran in the auras. (I sure miss them, even if they can easily be done at sp.) As for these days I really do not know. In other words yes it is quite an expensive strategy to pull off, (but is is so worth it imho) which is just another con with the removal of coins from the mushrooms in delta.

I ran quite a few deltas (at auras) with astha, and she is still in my honest opinion hands down one of the best mystics on dreamweaver, her Cragglord tore that place up with me in there. Our tandem made that place look like a complete and utter joke. I really do not mean to be tooting my or her horn so to speak, but yea I do indeed trust mystics to get the job done in quite a few instances thanks to astha.

It is indeed all too true we often do not need a specific class for this or that but there is sometimes no denying that certain classes make things go far smoother. Some squads just don't truly have the gear/refines to stand up tank, and kill the boss in a reasonable time before the boss becomes quite problematic for the whole squad.

Allisandre - Sanctuary wrote: »

I always get a huge laugh when I see people whining for barbs in FB59. I guess no one bothers to realize that all of the bosses in there do purely magical damage and having a barb tank is one of the stupidest things you can do. It's much better tanked by a wizard or psychic.

The last time I did bh59 we had 2 clerics and 2 archers. Everyone said we needed a tank and started calling for a barb. I told the squad we had a tank already. One cleric tanked while the other healed. She acted scared all the way through and swore she would die but didnt. At the end everyone told her awesome job which really gave her a sense of accomplishment and taught her something she nor anyone else in squad thought she could do.

I was running WS with my barb, a bm, sin, cleric, 2 archers. Me the bm and sin were the only ones that were staying alive fighting the mobs. Even with my agro, the cleric kept dieing. At one point, the archers and cleric went afk. We ran all the pavs, killing all the mobs, with no deaths and no prob. By the time they came back from afk, we had cleared everything except wood. Afterwards we did the bosses. That run to me proved that you don't need clerics for every little thing. They come in handy at the bosses and large pulls. We ran through it faster doing group by group with 3 people, then we did pulling large groups to bb. Gotta love demon HF and BP.

Let's not forget that the speed of the run is no more worthy a criteria than having the ideal classes. You don't need a sin or a BM any more than you need a barb or a cleric. Nobody wants their Metal or Aba/SoT to take an hour, but some people take impatience to the extreme by requiring aps kills and crazy damage outputs via HF. And HF is awesome, don't get me wrong, but it's no more required than the barb's HP or the cleric's BB. And don't even get me started on people who whine about BP. XD