No class is needed

tweakz

Keep seeing "need barb" or "need cleric" or "you need tank" -then they drop out of squad.

Yes; 3 people dropped out of my squad for my mystic's BH aba today and they'll remain ignorant for doing so. We had no cleric, no barb, and very little aps or quality dd for a fast kill. -It was still a swift and smooth run with tyvm's at the end.

I was happy last night because a squad maker for Wave 3 didn't even ask me if I minded healing for it. They just plain didn't get a cleric and told the squad I was a great healer. I use to worry that Mystic couldn't heal sufficiently for RB, however Gale force reduces a lot of dmg from mobs, Vit and healing herbs aren't slept, sealed, or stunned at the end of wave 3, falling petals is less timing dependent than IH, and 4.5 seconds on top of being deactivated for a bit for Chromatic is crazy.

It almost seems a waste to have a cleric BB in RB. A mystic can heal, protect, DD, and even tank at the same time. Many cleric's BB heals aren't even sufficient which is why people favor the seeker / sin combo despite how much of a waste of squad space most sins are there (why do they chase weak ranged mobs around and 1-1 dd them like fools?). BM buff makes less difference to my wiz than cleric heals in RB, and a good mystic makes my wiz feel invincible.

Why are people calling fast kill "aps kill"? Derpa Aps isn't necessary to drop bosses in seconds.

I love having Barbs, and clerics in a squad; I'm not saying they're not wanted or not useful. I'm just tired of wasting teles to invite ignorant people who are going to drop when 10+ others had wanted the spot and not one of them being a barb or cleric.

You might think you're saving time by dropping. Hell; I asked for a puller for Metal once. Another mystic replied, and after I invited them; then proceed to pet lure 1 mob at a time (lol -right?). It was because of my notion that I *might* learn something that I invited them. Well, I noticed when the pet was luring that the runners came close and could be safely AoE'd by me as all mobs were focused on her summon. -And this is how I discovered a way to make mystic more useful in Metal because I could use my own Devil to safely AoE pull!

Power leveling isn't a problem. People refusing to learn is.

Tsukyini - Raging Tide

tweakz wrote: »

Power leveling isn't a problem. People refusing to learn is.

Amen.b:thanks

Safeng - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

Power leveling isn't a problem. People refusing to test their potential is.

b:sad

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

No class is absolutely needed for anything, thought it depend on the squad, but try to tell that to people and they just leave squad.

I did every BH in that game without cleric and barb and sin.

Allisandre - Sanctuary

Safeng - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:sad

Nah, the OP had it right, it's people being to lazy/stupid to bother learning how to play their toons. I've actually done both the barb and the AoE DD roles at the same time in Delta. I've also heard of a really awesome 3-archer Delta run recently. No Sin's required.

I always get a huge laugh when I see people whining for barbs in FB59. I guess no one bothers to realize that all of the bosses in there do purely magical damage and having a barb tank is one of the stupidest things you can do. It's much better tanked by a wizard or psychic.

I have also done successful Deltas with no cleric, but a Mystic instead. It can be really helpful for the barb throwing the healing herb out while they are gathering the mobs.

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

I was happy last night because a squad maker for Wave 3 didn't even ask me if I minded healing for it. They just plain didn't get a cleric and told the squad I was a great healer. I use to worry that Mystic couldn't heal sufficiently for RB, however Gale force reduces a lot of dmg from mobs, Vit and healing herbs aren't slept, sealed, or stunned at the end of wave 3, falling petals is less timing dependent than IH, and 4.5 seconds on top of being deactivated for a bit for Chromatic is crazy.

Power leveling isn't a problem. People refusing to learn is.

I can confirm this to be true. Since mystics were released, I've met many who solo healed dungeons perfectly including delta.

WnbTank - Archosaur

tweakz wrote: »

KMany cleric's BB heals aren't even sufficient which is why people favor the seeker / sin combo despite how much of a waste of squad space most sins are there (why do they chase weak ranged mobs around and 1-1 dd them like fools?).

Actually, problem often is puller cant manage to pull the stuff into AoEs. Thus it`s sins who, with fairly low AoE spamming ability after first combo, who should be taking the runners down. If puller keeps the ranged things in AoE, sure that works but usually they dont. Usually it takes 2-3s to kill the mob or make it run inside AoEs to die, there is rarely more than maybe 10 rangers you gotta deal with, making it fairly easy and quick to just aps them 1 by 1. I suppose I could pull them with spark combo but then again, I would have to save SS for it instead of giving it to melee mobs that take lot longer to kill.

tweakz

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

Actually, problem often is puller cant manage to pull the stuff into AoEs. Thus it`s sins who, with fairly low AoE spamming ability after first combo, who should be taking the runners down. If puller keeps the ranged things in AoE, sure that works but usually they dont. Usually it takes 2-3s to kill the mob or make it run inside AoEs to die, there is rarely more than maybe 10 rangers you gotta deal with, making it fairly easy and quick to just aps them 1 by 1. I suppose I could pull them with spark combo but then again, I would have to save SS for it instead of giving it to melee mobs that take lot longer to kill.

I thought of making a guide for Spawn Point RB because there's so much people don't know about it.

CD for Earthen Rift is ONLY 8seconds. -Not that bad! CD for Subsea is only 30s and I know my wiz would greatly appreciate sins being on top of that 30s! Also; the sin doesn't have to be occupied just by those two skills: Sin can celestial erupt -> Rising Dragon Strike or Inner Harmony -> Power Dash or Subsea -> Earthen Rift on top of Chill of the Deep to be much more effective. Even 1-1 dd the melee mobs is more help than chasing weak range ones outside of aoe zone.

A veno, Wiz, Psy, Mystic, etc can much more efficiently kill ranged mobs even if they don't come into AoE zone. These classes just tend realize that they're not a priority to dispense right away.

Clerics shouldn't be positioning Regeneration Aura at the mouth of the SP unless an Archer is using them to glitch Barrage, and will be protecting them with it. (Not even sure that's a good reason as I've only done it that way once)

Clerics should be back far enough for the main AoE dd / tank to position at the mouth and right on the edge of it's range. for multiple reasons:

1) In this setup: ranged mobs eventually lose aggro of the dd and come in AoE on their own (targeting cleric but not making it to them). They may aggro bounce back and forth but will eventually be dead.

2) The sin should be assisting the main dd to reduce tank load. Sins aren't that horrible at AoE, and the bulk of the dmg to the tank (sometimes a struggling wiz) is coming from the melee mobs.

3) Regeneration Aura rarely is dropped in this farther back position and a lot less tanking is done by cleric.

4) This position of cleric forces bad players to play better. The mobs end up in a tighter grouping making AoE more effective. Bad players are also more likely to notice the mobs that would spawn behind the cleric.

5) If someone wants: they can much easier get a jump on aggro and pull mobs outside of healing zone when they aren't losing mobs to heal aggro.

6) Archers can be in a more aware, and better range position.

7) There isn't a single reason to my knowledge for clerics to put it up at mouth except for archer glitch. People that whine, ****, complain and demand never give a legitimate reason so I just /ignore and make like afk.

Savor - Lost City

We had a mystic in our GV wave 5 today she grabbed aggro a few times and died but she was healing well. We had an EP who decided to leave after wave 2 claiming he had no pots, even though every person in party would have gave him pots. Just a bloody useless -removed- Me and the seeker did most of the work even if I kept taking aggro off "the blender". Between Bramblehood immunes and various other ways to reduce damage I think my charm ticked like 3 times tanking the waves.

I agree with the OP. No class is needed.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

My first full GV I did for culti like 2 months ago we had, 1 cleric, 2 mystics, 1 wizz, 1 archer and 1 bm (that had 7-8k hp), no barb or sin and that was the smoothest run I ever saw and that was a full, on that the bm and archer was play by the same person and the cleric and wizz by the same person or something like that and we wasn't R9 or even 3rd recast nirvana weap.

When I people asking for a barb and sin for BP for GV nvm the wave that make me think they must be really fail

Allisandre - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

...

Clerics shouldn't be positioning Regeneration Aura at the mouth of the SP unless an Archer is using them to glitch Barrage, and will be protecting them with it. (Not even sure that's a good reason as I've only done it that way once)

...

Just an FYI, if you do this before the end of Stage 3, it will kill your auras.

@Savor, it's not GV here, please get up-to-date on the abbreviations so new people that didn't play MY know what the hell you're talking about.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Allisandre - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just an FYI, if you do this before the end of Stage 3, it will kill your auras.

@Savor, it's not GV here, please get up-to-date on the abbreviations so new people that didn't play MY know what the hell you're talking about.

I guess you are one of those person calling FC ''FF'' or ''FFC'' while the name of the cave is Frostcovered City, which doesn't have 2 ''F'', but I bet you tell people saying FC are wrong while actually they are not..

If people want to call GV, GR, RB or VR it's their choice.

My entire server call it GV, I wont call it RB to please you and make my entire server don't know what I'm talking about.

tweakz

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

I guess you are one of those person calling FC ''FF'' or ''FFC'' while the name of the cave is Frostcovered City, which doesn't have 2 ''F'', but I bet you tell people saying FC are wrong while actually they are not..

If people want to call GV, GR, RB or VR it's their choice.

Their choice but rude kinda like whispering in front of people or speaking another language intentionally. And what's the purpose of calling it GV? -Can only be to be rude.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

tweakz wrote: »

Their choice but rude kinda like whispering in front of people or speaking another language intentionally. And what's the purpose of calling it GV? -Can only be to be rude.

I'm from HL and I've never saw someone on HL call it RB, so why should a call it RB while on HL people say GV?

I have no idea why people call it GV or even RB, but I know both are the same, I don't ask anyone to change how they call the stuff, the forum is for all servers, some server use GV other RB, but I'm prolly sure everyone is enough smart and know by now what's GV and RB.

So what's the matter that someone call it GV?

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

I'm from HL and I've never saw someone on HL call it RB, so why should a call it RB while on HL people say GV?

I have no idea why people call it GV or even RB, but I know both are the same, I don't ask anyone to change how they call the stuff, the forum is for all servers, some server use GV other RB, but I'm prolly sure everyone is enough smart and know by now what's GV and RB.

So what's the matter that someone call it GV?

ill give you a cookie if you know what GV stands for

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

ill give you a cookie if you know what GV stands for

I did say that I did not know same for RB cause actually the place is call Valley of Reciprocuty.

All I can see it's ''G'' for Gods' rebirth and ''V'' for Vallet of .... so GV? xD

What I mean it's when someone say RB, HH or w/e even if I don't know the why, I know what they speaking about.

ovenusarmanio

I will say that when I was a new player it frustrated whenever I ran into people wouldn't just call stuff by it's name. It's confusing. Thankfully on DW most people did call stuff by it's name and so it was less aggravating. PPL on HT dont' though and I do get annoyed by it because it takes me a minute to remember which terms are which, since that's not it's name. But if people are accustomed to it, and everyone calls it that then whatever. As long as everyone understands one another. Whatever people are used to is what they are bound to like. But that's all off-topic so let's not derail the thread.

@topic

There are a couple of roles that are necessary and that's about it. Not any specific classes and I always just take the first PMs I get as long as I got ppl for those roles. You need someone who can tank the damage. And some form of heals. Be it an OP squad that's fine with just BP even at wave 3, a mystic, or cleric, in lower levels just having a veno with a pet that can tank is enough heals. So long as the tank can get what they need so they aren't charm tanking it. Beyond that I just invite whoever comes first. Has made for some pretty interesting squads over the years. Been in plenty of "unorthodox" squads that did went faster and smoother than normal squads probably because everyone was paying closer attention and using more of their skills because they were forced to do so.

WnbTank - Archosaur

tweakz wrote: »

I thought of making a guide for Spawn Point RB because there's so much people don't know about it.

CD for Earthen Rift is ONLY 8seconds. -Not that bad! CD for Subsea is only 30s and I know my wiz would greatly appreciate sins being on top of that 30s! Also; the sin doesn't have to be occupied just by those two skills: Sin can celestial erupt -> Rising Dragon Strike or Inner Harmony -> Power Dash or Subsea -> Earthen Rift on top of Chill of the Deep to be much more effective. Even 1-1 dd the melee mobs is more help than chasing weak range ones outside of aoe zone.

A veno, Wiz, Psy, Mystic, etc can much more efficiently kill ranged mobs even if they don't come into AoE zone. These classes just tend realize that they're not a priority to dispense right away.

Clerics shouldn't be positioning Regeneration Aura at the mouth of the SP unless an Archer is using them to glitch Barrage, and will be protecting them with it. (Not even sure that's a good reason as I've only done it that way once)

Clerics should be back far enough for the main AoE dd / tank to position at the mouth and right on the edge of it's range. for multiple reasons:

1) In this setup: ranged mobs eventually lose aggro of the dd and come in AoE on their own (targeting cleric but not making it to them). They may aggro bounce back and forth but will eventually be dead.

2) The sin should be assisting the main dd to reduce tank load. Sins aren't that horrible at AoE, and the bulk of the dmg to the tank (sometimes a struggling wiz) is coming from the melee mobs.

3) Regeneration Aura rarely is dropped in this farther back position and a lot less tanking is done by cleric.

4) This position of cleric forces bad players to play better. The mobs end up in a tighter grouping making AoE more effective. Bad players are also more likely to notice the mobs that would spawn behind the cleric.

5) If someone wants: they can much easier get a jump on aggro and pull mobs outside of healing zone when they aren't losing mobs to heal aggro.

6) Archers can be in a more aware, and better range position.

7) There isn't a single reason to my knowledge for clerics to put it up at mouth except for archer glitch. People that whine, ****, complain and demand never give a legitimate reason so I just /ignore and make like afk.

Ehh. I tend to CoD, demon spark, rift, subsea, rift and spark ends bout there. Channel CoD off and go take care of ranged stuff. I`ll be done before my SS is off CD.

Depending on positioning, cleric does get hit before AoEs gain aggro and Ive seen clerics that give me a scare when they get hit, so squishy. There are some seekers that really have trouble when ranged mobs are out of their vortex as they deal fair dps and being outside vortex, dont offer healing trough BP. And I rather keep charms from ticking if I can.

Not handling the runners, when nobody seems to be doing it, is simply just lazy.

SunDownXIII - Dreamweaver

Great first post... didn't read the replies (sorry guys). But you hit the nail on the head. I too im sick of people not thinking outside the box. Its always doing things the fast way. Another thing that bugs me is people asking to link weapon for a stupid bh! (Reason why I keep a lvl 1 set off daggers plus 3 to link it to those @#$ rs. I got reject the other day only to jump on the next squad and had the fastest aba bh ever without any op people, just people that knows how to play.

tweakz

One of them said: don't we need a tank? I replied: what is a tank? They respond: someone that can take a hit. I replied: Then we're good: They left -lol. NM; that not only can I tank it on Mystic, but can likely solo it w/o pots.

WnbTank wrote:

Ehh. I tend to CoD, demon spark, rift, subsea, rift and spark ends bout there. Channel CoD off and go take care of ranged stuff. I`ll be done before my SS is off CD.

It's still less efficient and helpful. When I'm on veno, mystic, wiz: those types of sins slow my ability to take out the ranged mobs and on veno: it's one way to keep all the melee mobs off me while staying productive. They're ~2 hit aoe kills, they barely do any dmg, and they kite melee. As I've mentioned: the melee mobs are the issue for my wiz. Any caster can pull those ranged mobs in (but as mentioned: most know better unlike sins).

You see this fail ideology in Lunar as well. The melee will attack the magic mobs first (as if they're there soloing) leaving the arcanes to tank the melee mobs even with a sage wizard who will keep aggro on the group. Sage wizard dies because expel wears off and is still being pummeled by every melee mob that was there from the start. Sage wizard comes back and derpa 1-1's mobs just like the idiot sins that did nothing for them.

When people realize seekers aren't any more valuable than Mystics in RB: they're going to begin to care even less for sins unless sins change.

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver

Hmm for just bh wave 2, I have duoed it with my cleric and sin. It's funny cause often my sin is told "too many sins" Now my wizzy can also duo it and it is way easier, but not as fun. Any one single aoe "class dd" can usually accomplish delta bhs so as long as there is atleast one and something to heal them then the rest is just fluff.

With todays average level of gear, class is less an less important as the mobs/bosses were designed with lesser geared toons in mind. Most bosses only live 30 seconds or less with even an average wc squad. Mobs are mere speed bumps.

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver

What's this arguement about calling delta and FC different names? My server names:

Frostcovered City:

FC. Plain and simple.

Delta:

W2(BH), W3(BH), W4(Culti), W5(Culti), Full delta(Culti, farming).

We don't call it any other names.

Example:

"Forming FC LF BM, Cleric, So on..."

"BH W2/W3 LFM PM Class"

WnbTank - Archosaur

tweakz wrote: »

One of them said: don't we need a tank? I replied: what is a tank? They respond: someone that can take a hit. I replied: Then we're good: They left -lol. NM; that not only can I tank it on Mystic, but can likely solo it w/o pots.




It's still less efficient and helpful. When I'm on veno, mystic, wiz: those types of sins slow my ability to take out the ranged mobs and on veno: it's one way to keep all the melee mobs off me while staying productive. They're ~2 hit aoe kills, they barely do any dmg, and they kite melee. As I've mentioned: the melee mobs are the issue for my wiz. Any caster can pull those ranged mobs in (but as mentioned: most know better unlike sins).

You see this fail ideology in Lunar as well. The melee will attack the magic mobs first (as if they're there soloing) leaving the arcanes to tank the melee mobs even with a sage wizard who will keep aggro on the group. Sage wizard dies because expel wears off and is still being pummeled by every melee mob that was there from the start. Sage wizard comes back and derpa 1-1's mobs just like the idiot sins that did nothing for them.

When people realize seekers aren't any more valuable than Mystics in RB: they're going to begin to care even less for sins unless sins change.

Obviously you position yourself behind the mob, making it runs towards AoE setup...

MANray_ - Sanctuary

b:lipcurl Yes, given sufficient overkill you can dispense with class roles altogether...

Brilliant.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Mystics and Barbs suck. I'd never ever bring them for anything. Knocking back and sealing mobs? No thank you. The only classes that should get to run anything are Blademasters, Clerics, Wizards, and maybe Archers. Venos are just as bad as Mystics and I don't like the smell of fish!

tweakz

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

Obviously you position yourself behind the mob, making it runs towards AoE setup...

It's still 1-1 vs 1-many, but yeah.. can't figure out why they don't even do that.

Euthymius - Heavens Tear

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

ill give you a cookie if you know what GV stands for

Godless Valley?

Colum - Raging Tide

I totally agree with OP though I have to say it's also frustrating when you enter in a squad to do a certain job and rest of the squad + you know you do this job the best (read= in most efficient way) and still 1 player claims they are the tank because they built their seeker to tank blah blah blah (yes I've seen this happen, sadly).

I was yesterday forming FC squad on my sin. We missed a healer and puller, when healer joined she immediately left and whispered me " there's no puller, I am not coming. "
What the heck? So you just wait to get perfectly ready squad just for you?

I also remember one FC where archer and sin dropped squad because it had archer, sin, cleric, mystic and a venomancer. Were looking for puller but no, not then.

Heartz - Dreamweaver

Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Godless Valley?

yes it is. but I think Sasha's point was that Bella dont even know, what the term she uses stands for.. which was true, very stupid actually.
I can understand old MY players call it GV if they wish, but newer players calling it GV, not knowing what it really stands for is, just weird lmao.

Hexalot - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Mystics and Barbs suck. I'd never ever bring them for anything. Knocking back and sealing mobs? No thank you. The only classes that should get to run anything are Blademasters, Clerics, Wizards, and maybe Archers. Venos are just as bad as Mystics and I don't like the smell of fish!

I know you are trolling... but that part in RED for emphasis:

MYSTICS PLEASE DON'T KNOCK BACK THE @#$% MOBS !!

I swear... there is NOTHING more annoying in Delta than watching some stupid Mystic knocking mobs out of the aoe DD's range. I mean, why oh God why ? b:sad


Other than that... I'm cool with Mystics in my squad for Delta or any other instance, really. b:cute

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Heartz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

yes it is. but I think Sasha's point was that Bella dont even know, what the term she uses stands for.. which was true, very stupid actually.
I can understand old MY players call it GV if they wish, but newer players calling it GV, not knowing what it really stands for is, just weird lmao.

I don't know where RB come from too I check the name of the instance many times and can't find why RB while as you saw I find something for GV that is related to that version of the game.