Veno vs myst

For the solo/DQ/grinding point, people playing veno will say veno while people playing mystic will say mystic.

For the squad thing, as Desdi said it depend on squad, some people love have mystic some other prefer veno, some don't care, but if you find a good faction and have good friends than it should not be a problem to get a squad with both class.

OOXiaoOo - Lost City wrote: »

and what about soloing?

For soloing it depend on the gears, but veno pets are more strong for tank than mystic, but mystic have healing.

Regenbogen - Lost City wrote: »

if you are talking about the pet: veno pets can learn the healing skill too b:chuckle

Orly?

I'm not stupid, I speak about healing skills on players not on pets.

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think Desdi got it right on Venos being the best class for soloing. While my experience is limited to a low level farmer alt, Mystics really are mp hogs.

Please stop perpetuating this misinformation. Both veno and mystic are more costly early on. Both become more efficient. Many of us remember before the patch hit us; a vid of someone soloing a boss with mystic way before a veno could. Venos ability to solo doesn't scale well with equips while Mystic's does. If you have problems with mp and soloing; it just might be because you're trying to play a Mystic like you would a veno.

Yes, likely high level Mystics significantly reduce their relative mp consumption and may even be able to completely avoid downtime, but it seems difficult they could get anything close to a veno's Nature's Grace - Soul Transfussion - Metabolic Boost combo in terms of overall efficiency.

Does the veno have the same max MP per mag? Does the veno not often lose significant MP by switching to fox? Does the veno not have extremely MP costly Myriads? Is Soul Transfusion often worth the chi cost, time to use, and vulnerability?

And while Mystics may get heals, Venos have got Leech, which should be more than enough for any capable grinder.

Even sage leech is only 600 HP, and requires fox form. -Are you being serious? I'd rather have a real melee class + BP.

This isn't a two sides to every story type of thing, whatever other capacities we may have lost to other classes (Instance soloing, luring) Venos remain the most capable of all grinders, meaning better performance in collection quests, and Veno pets being more ressilient than Mystic summons does mean a larger range of bosses available for soloing.

Venos are far from being the most capable grinders. Veno pets aren't more resilient. Even with Blessing; they can't survive the common 5k AoEs that all mystic summons can. 2 of the Mystic Summons furthermore operate at range which makes them more resilient on close range AoE bosses. 1 of those 4 summons blows herc's stats away.

tweakz wrote: »

Please stop perpetuating this misinformation. Both veno and mystic are more costly early on. Both become more efficient. Many of us remember before the patch hit us; a vid of someone soloing a boss with mystic way before a veno could. Venos ability to solo doesn't scale well with equips while Mystic's does. If you have problems with mp and soloing; it just might be because you're trying to play a Mystic like you would a veno.
Mystics soloing bosses much earlier than venos is just not typical. As usual you're trying to generalize observations that only apply to endgame or top performers. It is precissely because pet stats are independent that venos can afford to level and perform adequately without any significant gear investments. Further, Mystics do not usually depend on their summons for tanking to the same degree venos rely on their pets and this is simply because, leaving stats aside, it would be too slow and inefficient for them to scale back their own damage enough so as to allow their summon to fully retain aggro. And it is precisely because of their access to heals that Mystics are not as adverse as caster venos to getting hit. It's you apparently who's playing the class wrong. This means higher repairs however, as well as a more inefficient conversion of mp to hp, which bring us to the point that in objective terms caster venos consume much less mp than mystics do. Just compare the cost of Nature's Vengeance vs Venomous Scarab, and pretty much anything else on the Mystic tree is twice as expensive as Ironwood even if we choose to obviate the fact that we don't use mp to call on our pets.
Does the veno have the same max MP per mag? Does the veno not often lose significant MP by switching to fox? Does the veno not have extremely MP costly Myriads? Is Soul Transfusion often worth the chi cost, time to use, and vulnerability?
Played right veno should never run into mp issues, and mp pool size as well as the loss of 20% mp turning fox are both negligible for caster venos. Prior to 79 you can use transfussion to fill your mp bar or even use Nature's Grace through a boss fight. Yes, myriads can drain your mp bar fast but much like any other caster class in the game we gain acess to inexpensve herb yuanxiao at 75, which pretty much solves the problem at a fraction of the cost for them. After 79 you won't use transfussion in your squad work, except as an emergency heal, because of it's chi cost, but it remains a legitimate choice for grinding/soloing and you'd have to be terribly incompetent for this chi usage to be any problem.
Even sage leech is only 600 HP, and requires fox form. -Are you being serious? I'd rather have a real melee class + BP.
Do you need anything more soloing? Are YOU serious?
Venos are far from being the most capable grinders. Veno pets aren't more resilient. Even with Blessing; they can't survive the common 5k AoEs that all mystic summons can. 2 of the Mystic Summons furthermore operate at range which makes them more resilient on close range AoE bosses. 1 of those 4 summons blows herc's stats away.
What do 5k AoE bosses have to do with grinding efficiency? Or is this about endgame Mystics soloing caster's vana? Because you may have been gone long enough not to realize that particular instance is not worth doing anymore... I'll take the freaking pepsi challenge against your mystic, let's just see which one of us can go for longer grinding without using any pots and without any downtime, and then let's see who got more kills of at level mobs.

Man, I do realize all your deranged minmaxing eventually took you to the conclussion that the best build for a veno is rolling a mystic, but the only missconception here is that you have any idea how the game actually works outside the comfort zone of your faction...

tweakz wrote: »

Please stop perpetuating this misinformation. Both veno and mystic are more costly early on. Both become more efficient. Many of us remember before the patch hit us; a vid of someone soloing a boss with mystic way before a veno could. Venos ability to solo doesn't scale well with equips while Mystic's does. If you have problems with mp and soloing; it just might be because you're trying to play a Mystic like you would a veno.

As much as I prefer mystic over veno, veno cost WAY less mp.

Veno can solo with their pets better than mystic with their summons, but a mystic can solo without summon while a veno without pet cannot. Example, I don't know any veno that could solo Blackhole in OHT without a pet for tank, while on my mystic I solo him and tank myself. (speaking for people with normal gears, ofc a R9+12 veno could maybe do it without pets, but I speak for normal people)

I think there is some confusion here...what kind of soloing are we talking about and for what kind of level range?

Though I have to admit, the OP didn't give out much information to begin with. Venomancers prior lvl79 skills and Demon/Sage skills don't consume as much MP as Mystics do and when you're grinding I doubt you're spamming Myriads and whatnot, especially if the mobs are 1-2 shots...so grinding on a Venomancer is cheap.

Venomancer VS Mystic soloing bosses and instances...well at what lvl range? Which instances? With what gear? This has to be specified before giving an answer...

tweakz wrote: »

Go ahead; don't listen to the one that abhors using pots. -The one that focuses on DD. -The one that spends an abundant time soloing. This is a game after-all and we're gonna see poor excuses for why I'm so far ahead than others who criticize my advice. BHD is barely worth doing anymore as is anything a typical veno could solo. Veno soloing is laughed about outside of this forum. I play 8 toons and half of them I'd choose over veno to solo.

Yeah, I can imagine the people doing the laughing, the 5.0 aps crowd that insists on suiciding on bramble hood and gets half the supply tokens I do on NW... Those guys? I mean it's not like venos can do melee builds and not getting BP becomes a moot point when you can down a boss in less time it takes for amp to wear off. Seriously man, the game is so broken all it takes is R9rs3 to faceroll PvE REGARDLESS of your class. But let's see, had I followed your advice I would currently be a pure mag, meaning all things being equal I would have been forced to spend much more not to be a squishy pushover or go through embarrasing bits like dying to Soulbanisher's AoE, all so I could get some extra mag attack that, at my level range, will not make for any significant difference PvP'ing and I absolutely won't need for PvE at all. I would also own a herc which given I don't have the time to solo TT for days on end, even if I wanted to, wouldn't have repaid itself and would be obsolete for endgame PvE content. Brilliant, it turns out your advice only applies to no lifer minmaxers and that this is what you would have us all be a carbon copy of, a player who would choose 4 other classes over veno for soloing.

Really? Are you getting hit that much grinding leech won't be enough to fill up your hp bar every now and then? Is veno just not worth playing to you if you don't have an OP P2Win pet? Do you think any of us wonder about this success you brag about when you've openly admitted to spending long enough hours playing anyone who would care for you irl would have to wonder whether you don't have a psychiatric disorder? Seriously?

Let me make it easy for you, veno remains an independent enough class through most of the leveling curve, with the current DQ nerf it probably remains one of the few viable choices for those who decide not to level through FCC. Further, venos are competent enough at PvP they're one of the few classes likely able to get significant NW contribution at the lower level ranges. Mystics simply can't perform on par for the same cost. And endgame the classes have different enough capabilities the matter becomes moot. Now, I take it you love mystics so why don't you just go make yourself a nuissance at their forum? In here if you want to state they're a better class for grinding you'll actually have to prove it, and I've known you long enough that I know other than cryptic talk and tortured "between the lines" hints you'll never actually produce hard data when challenged on your careless leetist statements. I produced objective arguments based on verifiable information to counter your points, you will have none of that except if it helps to prove you're brilliant for having used rare skills on your eldergoth or any other stunt like that, because you don't actually care to engage in any discussion in which you may be proven wrong, you're just here to troll and pretend to be a leet, misunderstood player, when all you really are is a fail no lifer that doesn't even like playing veno anymore...

there was a time when i envy mistic, cause i saw my friend able to solo card boss in eden easy. so i make mystic to try and feel how OP the class is. after i try on both class, i keep coming back to veno. i love to play veno when grinding mob in map 2 and 3. i love more to solo eden with my veno and i learn little by little how to play in fox and normal form. For me, was kinda hard to play like that since i play for 2 years as cleric.

the only thing that i envy with mystic is the fast channeling skill for healing summon. if veno have that fast channeling to heal pet gonna be really cool b:dirty

Baby_pho - Heavens Tear wrote: »

my question is tho which im still not sure is:

which of veno/mystic is better in pvp e.e'? not against each other particularly but against other classes too during 1v1 or groups vs. groups? thoughts?

I really find that i do better in pvp on my veno and I dont know why. in tw, nw, pk.

I mean if you look at the surface mystics has really good skills but when it comes down to action I feel like venos are slightly better.

From the feedback I heard, people found mystic more ''Annoying'' to fight than veno. (in a good way for mystic)

I guess that depend from the class, but in PVP/TW it's hard to compare them since they don't have the same role, they are both support, but not in the same way.

I personally think it's more easy to take down a veno than a mystic for both mystic and veno. (mystic have way much more wood resistance).

I have both a veno and a mystic. Nothing makes people rage more then getting purged and amped while someone does massive damage to them. Nothing. And if u really want to annoy them more, Turn them into a pufflebird (or tiger if you have that skill) and drain their chi and throw in a stun + debuff.

A mystic has their utility skills too. They dont have an 100% increased damage debuff (demon thicket is a chance); they dont purge, which i think is what makes people fear veno's the most. They can knock u around, seal you, slow you, sleep you, do a measly 12% Chance to debuff and stun you, if your pet hasnt died yet. It's just alot of chances to be supportive that has never sat well with me.

To me, veno is one the most ultimate support in this game, with cleric coming after. Nothing compares to what a veno can do which is why it has always been my main when I could play everything else under the sun.

Yatza - Raging Tide wrote: »

I can just agree... I played all caster classes and mystic have a lot of cool skills and are fun in pvp but the real advantage venos got is surely is debuffing/purging/chi draining/bewitching to control a target. I love the defenciveness of a veno and veno's survivability is just not compairable to the other casters if you know how to use your veno.

Once a veno, always a veno b:dirty

And you know what's even better? I only named half the things they could do. I didn't even mention bramble, Nova, other morai skills or any of the fox skills which can all be situational.

Veno just wins in term of versatile group pvp. I think with the future pet upgrades they will be a forced to be reckoned with in terms of 1v1 pvp (which doesnt even happen nowadays anymore)

Crescendia - Harshlands wrote: »

And you know what's even better? I only named half the things they could do. I didn't even mention bramble, Nova, other morai skills or any of the fox skills which can all be situational.

Veno just wins in term of versatile group pvp. I think with the future pet upgrades they will be a forced to be reckoned with in terms of 1v1 pvp (which doesnt even happen nowadays anymore)

b:chuckle Once again just agreeing! I love veno, its first class I ever tried made in this game and it became my main from day one. I have tried all classes and nothing suited me as well as veno.

i did it because i like melee and pet classes. venos are the only capable of this.