The direction this company is going in...it scares me.

Ever seen someone who got fired say "Oh actually it was pretty awesome there."?

Yea...

lawl i could go make an account there and say i worked for PWE as well, and give it a bad review PWE is doing fine...

TBH to me that review sounds totally fake anyway. It sounds like someone who got laid off, got mad, and made an angry review. In fact, it comes off as possibly fake "game is dead," speech turned around on the company down to the way it is organized. I'm sure they told the reasons to the laid off employees on why they were fired. They probably just didn't make a big show of it in the office because quite frankly why anyone is let go is only between the management and the person let go? There is no direction whatsoever? No company culture? Company culture exists whether or not the management makes one or not. And I would think an actual employee know the difference between them and china. And would not be under the impression that PWCN=PWE even if they are a subsidiary. It's obvious to anyone that PWE has a company has some of it's own things going on as well. Even if China calls the shots, I sincerely doubt they are scurrying around in the dark without a clue on what to do until a call from China. Nothing would get accomplished if that was not exaggeration. I'm sure there are some communication problems with China but I find it being this bad hard to believe. If this is a real employee, they are obviously just mad that they got passed over for a promotion. Although if this was their attitude towards the company all along, I don't find it surprising they were not promoted. In general you want people in management who believe in what they are doing. Take it with a grain of salt.

And yes I do think this is all coming from the same group of people, writing styles are very similar. Even employees who complain about the same things should still be writing from a different perspective instead of LOL epic fail china. As for nepotism, that's true in every job. I wouldn't be surprised if that was true. ::shrug::

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

A lot of the people in the west have absolutely no clue how chinese companies work. Academic qualifications is requiremed in terms that you need to know how to read and write. Outside of that, it is up to who you know or who your parents know to get the job. I have seen multi million contracts get swayed because someone's dad just happen to be the drinking bubby of the right person.

Yeah, like I said in my last line. Would not be surprised if nepotism plays a role, although I imagine a lot of the smaller handling decisions do stay in the US side of the US subsidiary. That's true of a lot of companies though. I remember seeing a study that said between 60-80% of all US jobs (percentage varying on things like field, education level, etc) are found through personal relationships. If anyone has ever got a job through a friend or helped a friend get a job, you're just as guilty of it as others. I'm not saying that it's right or that it's fair or that it's the way things should be. It's just not limited to allegedly perfect world. Although to be honest, the reviews seemed like they were coming form disgruntled employees or fake and exaggerated. Especially since it was so often the same perspective. "I guess I'm not one of the cool kids, lol china epic fail, this company was better when it was just the one game, etc," which leads me to believe that they are part of some group of friends that got let-go and are just bitter and exaggerating. Or they are in fact, fake.

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Then you'd really be surprised on how international business works in the majority of companies out there. Even with PWI as an example, how many clueless patches or clueless posts by GMs do we have out there across all games?

Well usually its like this. They'll give you a vague directive, but not really enough information on how to do it. Sometimes because they themselves have not hammered out the logistics. For example, you might not know everything you need to know about the patch. But you'll know the patch is coming and you get some general information for it to help you prepare. All kinds of small things slip through the cracks and get hammered out later. But there is usually a since of direction. These guys make it sound like they don't even know how to go about their day once they are there. It's exaggerated. And there are somethings you'd get ready for as a part of standard operating procedure. At least that is how it was been when I have handled an international project. I imagine a well oiled big business works even better.

As for nepotism, there is a reason many colleges put on networking seminars for their students and pressure them into taking internships regardless of whether or not they are paid. It's because that's your foot in the door. It's the same old song and dance all across the country. It is what it is.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So what if it (or anything for that matter) stays in the US, it is a chinese guy with peking u education sitting behind the desk at redwood city.

And? If you work for an international company and don't bother learning anything about the prevalent management style of the country you are working for, you have only yourself to blame when it blows up in your face. Top-down is a common management style in many countries, not just China. Again, it does not make it right. I am placing no value judgments one way or another. But this is not exclusive to PWE. It's all over the world. It's common right here in the USA where PWE is located. These pages sound like people who are exaggerating how bad it is to work there as though it is somehow atypical. But all of their complaints either sound exaggerated, or just how things work in the world. I'd take anything on glass door with a grain of salt.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Since we're talking about the hiring/promating process of PWI. If "Top-down is a common management style in many countries" and "It's common right here in the USA where PWE is located." Then whats there to learn "about the prevalent management style of the country you are working for". We can go back and forth about the validity of the reviews until i start my lunch break. But lets just say that I will not be eating lunch at that one star yelp rated restaurant.

Ah sorry, didn't make that clear. I meant nepotism is common right here in the USA where PWE is located. And restaurant reviewers tend to have less personal emotions involved. They just tried some food and it sucked. Glass door is a bit different in that most reviews are either from disgruntled employees raging, exaggeration, and not taking any of the blame for getting fired. Or people who exaggerate how great it is to work their either because they like their job and don't notice the flaws or are being paid not to notice them. It's just doesn't work out as well as yelp. So it takes a lot more reading between the lines to figure out whether or not it's a company you'd want to work for. Even a lot of positive reviews doesn't necessarily mean the company is a good company. Unlike with yelp when it's mostly impersonal. I mean take a look at a lot of the reviews on PWE many of them are speaking of some sort of lay-off. Now either PWE does massive layoffs all the time. Or these guys are talking to the same because they are within the group that got laid off and are angry over it. What they are saying shouldn't be ignored, but it shouldn't necessarily be taken as flat out truth either. They have a very good reason to be exaggerating or lying about some of the details.

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Glass door is a bit different in that most reviews are either from disgruntled employees raging, exaggeration, and not taking any of the blame for getting fired. Or people who exaggerate how great it is to work their either because they like their job and don't notice the flaws or are being paid not to notice them.

We certainly have a healthy population of the disgrunted... I guess its time to wait for the gruntled.

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Well usually its like this. They'll give you a vague directive, but not really enough information on how to do it. Sometimes because they themselves have not hammered out the logistics. For example, you might not know everything you need to know about the patch. But you'll know the patch is coming and you get some general information for it to help you prepare. All kinds of small things slip through the cracks and get hammered out later. But there is usually a since of direction. These guys make it sound like they don't even know how to go about their day once they are there. It's exaggerated. And there are somethings you'd get ready for as a part of standard operating procedure. At least that is how it was been when I have handled an international project. I imagine a well oiled big business works even better.

Worse usually. The bigger the company, the more bureaucracy, and the more personality and egos. Those cracks get more plentiful as the size and complexity increases, direction changes even more often, and it is common for people to have no clue save a few. There is a reason why independent analysts and consultants whose sole job is untangling companies is a big deal/market, especially if they're good at it.

Inept leadership even in smaller companies causes the same headaches.

The glassdoor reviews 90% of the time are exaggerated, and I'd say grossly at that. But even if you take it as gross, there is obviously someone who felt this way, and felt the need to blow it out of proportion. Regardless - an issue is still there. It may be a crack, but it's still a crack.

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

As for nepotism, there is a reason many colleges put on networking seminars for their students and pressure them into taking internships regardless of whether or not they are paid. It's because that's your foot in the door. It's the same old song and dance all across the country. It is what it is.

Foot in the door is not nepotism. It is an introduction to those in the industry and a chance to show what you can do.

Nepotism in business is more like the definition: "Favoritism shown to others regardless of merit by those with power or influence." I've had jobs where nepotism is a problem, and others where it was not as bad (it's human nature, I don't think its possible NOT to have it). Guess which companies did better?

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

If you work for an international company and don't bother learning anything about the prevalent management style of the country you are working for, you have only yourself to blame when it blows up in your face. Top-down is a common management style in many countries, not just China. Again, it does not make it right. I am placing no value judgments one way or another. But this is not exclusive to PWE. It's all over the world. It's common right here in the USA where PWE is located.

Top down management is how management works. However, I'll do a Sun Tzu quote:

Sun Tzu: "If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, the general is to blame. But if his orders ARE clear, and the soldiers nevertheless disobey, then it is the fault of their officers."

There is like 100s of translations and interpretations of that passage, the context is that anything can be done with the proper application of leadership, and it is the leadership's responsibility to ensure things work.

Internally, ideally both the employee and manager should be able to understand each other. But as a manager it's your job to make sure that happens. When things go awry like what is described in the Glassdoor thing, it's not always the employee, usually its both, and sometimes it is just the management. Reading in between the lines I bet there is problems, but I bet the employee was a problem too.

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Glass door is a bit different in that most reviews are either from disgruntled employees raging, exaggeration, and not taking any of the blame for getting fired. Or people who exaggerate how great it is to work their either because they like their job and don't notice the flaws or are being paid not to notice them. It's just doesn't work out as well as yelp. So it takes a lot more reading between the lines.

But, they left with a really bad taste in their mouths. Bad enough to take the time to post to Glassdoor. Does it mean the company is in shambles? No most likely not. Does it mean there is at bare minimum, perception problems unresolved by the management? Very yes.


On the whole point of the OP's assumed original intent: Even at 100% true, any company with these reviews can still be turning out an amazing product for consumers. It just means they suck at managing employees and their internal processes. That affects them more than it will affect us.

I can think of 2 major companies that have some of the worst management of employees and internal processes that are at large extremely successful and making money just fine. I even worked for one of them for a while. Could they be more successful and make more money if they got their heads outta their behinds? You betcha. But they are by far not a failure to their shareholders or customers/clients. Just themselves and their employees.

It dosnt matter, games like PWI are build to be operated with as little customer serves needed as possible. In my 3 Years of playtime i just needed their assistance once... and wasn't able to use the horribly broken formular to reach them and had to google an email adress to get help. That helpdesk still dosnt work for me but thats another story.

I can believe whats written on that link but it have little influence on the game itself. Poor management decestions ? I think so too. First, the savings on Sales was reduced significantly in order to extend the life cycle of that game. No more cheap orbs, charms cost 50% more on sale and so go on. They added VAT for EU (no other company did that) and make charging zen 25% more expensive. This two things add up.

But hey its for the life cycle so the game will survive longer right?, right ? ...
And here we go, Rank9 for everyone 3rd recast , nirvana 3rd recast sub standard now, all balance thrown away to make some monney at the end of the year. How have THAT extended the games lifecycle ? Its again a complete turnaround and i see no clear vision from that management. How broken and imbalanced gear they want to relase for a game thats perfectly playable with tt99 gear? In at least a year they have to relase something even more powerfull because people will carve for something to improve.

Allone the Issue with new Times for NW that ease it for EU players show me how incredibly hard it must be to get proper communications done within the company. I believe our CM is doing its best but hes not having the Authority to decide that and decesion making must be horrible complicated.

Its surely frustrating to work there, i was with gala networks once and it was horrible but PWE seem to be on top of that. The only good thing is, the average gamer is not affected by this. As long this holds true and they manage to keep the servers up and running not much will change. It shouldnt concern the average gamer how the company runs internally. There is no need for.

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

And last, seriously people I know you're happy you got the mod position and congratulations to you all, but it doesn't mean you're now company spokesmen. All the cred you may have gotten posting all these years is not going to mean a thing if you automatically jump to defend PWE from any criticism.

It's not jumping to defend PWE from any criticism. I'm just saying going so far to take an exaggerated review about company culture and say that means some kind of doom and gloom is problematic. And that a survey from a fired employee is not the same thing as yelp. I know from first hand experience how greatly exaggerated these things can be. An employee can be fired for stealing and claim they were fired for a minor thing like eating, but that the bosses friends got away with it. And that one I have been on the receiving end on. It was completely untrue, not ground in any sort of reality and was needlessly inflammatory. The same four friends wrote the same thing and we had one positive review. Did it make it true? Did it make it fair? No. You just can't tell with a source like this. Anytime you try to look into anything, you must consider the source and possible bias. That's not jumping to defend PWI, and if my credibility is gone because I tell people they should make sure the sources they are use are not bias, then so be it. I am not saying that it is all false or that anything is fair. I was very careful to say I was not making any value judgement whatsoever. I am saying that we can't tell much based on it.

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Foot in the door is not nepotism. It is an introduction to those in the industry and a chance to show what you can do.

Top down management is how management works.

I've actually seen plenty of jobs go to the interns for no reason other than that the person knew and liked the intern. A lot of these internships do not really offer you a good view of what it is like to work that that job. But they do introduce you to the right people. A lot of students try to pick internships that will introduce them to the right people rather than necessarily which one is best for what they are trying to do. I've seen it plenty of times actually.

And nah, there are all kinds of different managerial styles. Ultimately the boss has the final say-so. But to see the difference between say China Top-down and US company for example, take a look at how employees doing things on their own is viewed. In a strictly top-down managerial style it may be seen as usurping authority and you should only do the tasks assigned you. Whereas in the US an employee finding work to do on their own may be viewed as showing initiative. This is especially relevant for a game like this because they can't do some things that other companies may have done on their own.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why does former employee have to be fired employee. Are we not allow to leave a company because of better opportunity or just plain dislike for the work place? I don't know about you... but I left quiet a few jobs of my own choice. I seriously doubt any of them will even remotely say that they fired me. And I certainly do not give rosely reviews of all my former employments.

All the talk of lay-offs and all the reviews being posted around the same time discussing the same lay-off leads me to believe they were probably laid off as opposed to quit. Although that is quite possible too. I doubt PWI is laying off employees all the time for no reason. Layoffs tend to be bigger deals not par for the course. I mean pretty much all the reviews were discussing it, which is not particularly normal. And I doubt they could function if this has been the norm since 2008, and indeed the reviews all seem to be clustered from a period of july til 5-6 weeks ago. Not saying that you are wrong or that they have to have been let go, but that you should take into consideration it's highly likely. Because it biases their description.

I read those reviews, and, I agree with Venus that they seem to be about only one event and are all bias against. Not to say it didn't happen, but, I doubt it.

My opinion, and I stress OPINION!

Every company has problems, some are worst then others. Everyone is mad that pw has become a cash cow that doesn't seem to have a future. But, you have to admit, they are right in doing it. People keep buying, why stop selling. If it ain't broke don't fix it. What does PWE/Wanmei want? Money. Are they getting it? Heck yes. If the consumer doesn't change then the distributor won't either. Nothing lasts forever. Maybe someone can get them to through more money into development and save the game, but, they have no reason to. They make money off it, they have other games, if it stops making money, then they lose nothing by shutting it down and moving those funds to another game. Sad but true.b:sad

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

It's not jumping to defend PWE from any criticism. I'm just saying going so far to take an exaggerated review about company culture and say that means some kind of doom and gloom is problematic. And that a survey from a fired employee is not the same thing as yelp. I know from first hand experience how greatly exaggerated these things can be. An employee can be fired for stealing and claim they were fired for a minor thing like eating, but that the bosses friends got away with it. And that one I have been on the receiving end on. It was completely untrue, not ground in any sort of reality and was needlessly inflammatory. The same four friends wrote the same thing and we had one positive review. Did it make it true? Did it make it fair? No. You just can't tell with a source like this. Anytime you try to look into anything, you must consider the source and possible bias. That's not jumping to defend PWI, and if my credibility is gone because I tell people they should make sure the sources they are use are not bias, then so be it. I am not saying that it is all false or that anything is fair. I was very careful to say I was not making any value judgement whatsoever. I am saying that we can't tell much based on it.

I'll agree we can hardly tell much about the inner workings of PWE from the one sided and likely biased posts on this review site. And if you go back and read my posts you'll find that while I do imply that there must be something to it, I do also consider the matter moot. But let's be fair, ViciousMinx, Skaitavia and you all first posted on this thread to question the legitimacy, not the bias, of posts on said site, and there is something of a teacher's pet vibe going on here when you all jump to a more radicalized position en bloc. Now, I'm not saying hard earned reputations will be destroyed by a single thread, and I do understand your getting defensive, but fair is fair, I myself disagree with the OP, most of all with his proposed "solution", but that doesn't mean I disregard out of hand the contents of his post, especially when it is consistent with what we do know of PWE through our own dealings with it. Someone brought up Spoons, and while he and I may have not always agreed, I do respect the man and consider him a straight shooter. Most of all, I do respect his good work and what he means to many members of our community. I don't think the way he was let go was fair to either him or us, if anything it demonstrates that the people we directly deal with has no say in many of the decissions that affect us, and that they themselves may be misled, which is why I was always willing to cut Frankie some slack, even when it became apparent he didn't always have the best of attitudes...

V4l I think so far has made some very good work and we really needed someone like him on the job, and its not the INI thing for me. He's always been attentive, he's been diligent in looking into things for us and he's been considerate in keeping us updated about what's going on. Some have expressed their hope that there may be enough "fire" in him to effect some change, but personally I just hope he's got the good sense to realize that he's in a difficult position and that he shouldn't burn himself out on this job. Because really what we need, as customers, is someone that will remain professional for not just the honeymoon period, but who will be able to mantain a good attitude through the bad, because it is coming and we all know sooner rather than later we are bound to get some update from China that will break the game even further or take away something we all enjoy.

And something that I believe has been done right is that long standing well known posters have been made moderators, I do remember the rioting that ensued when they did try to force some unknowns on us. So please don't take this as me picking on you guys. Yeah, I may have gone overboard on the Fuzzy thing (then again...) but I'm really rooting for you even if it may sometimes seem as if I'm giving you a hard time. My only loyalty in this forum is to being honest, which means I may sometimes come close to flaming with the people I do actually like, much the same way I'll sometimes agree with those I just don't get along with.

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

snipped to make this quote shorter

Just as you can only call it how you see it, that is all that I can do as well. I always try to take a step back and look at the broader perspective. Sometimes this make me mad at PWE, sometimes it makes me think they are being criticized for something they shouldn't be. I have no control over what the other mods post. I can only be myself, the same self I have been since the beginning. I have never been a poster who is overly negative or positive towards PWI. I try to be reasonable and look at things from both sides of the coin. It's the way I treat every difficult situation. I always look at things and think about why they might be the way they are and go from there. Discussing things with others and getting more perspectives can often challenge your view or expand your view, but that's a good thing imo. You shouldn't really lump our reactions together as one. We all are different people. We came to the same conclusion but we arrived at it independently.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ok... now I await your explaination of those negative review by current employees.

All the reviews about just one event which was initially what made me think they were fake. In addition they were all in the same time frame. The same structure and time frame and complaints made it seem to me that perhaps there was something bigger going on there. Usually employees may not have a positive view of a company but it's for a variety of different reasons. But now I think perhaps it's just bias because they were let go in a round of layoffs. Either way I don't think they are entirely truthful in the way that may be just exaggerated. Lay-offs are a stressful time for everyone. There are bound to be some hurt feelings on both sides, the ones that stay may be mad a friend and dear colleague was let-go. Or maybe even just mad at the sense of justice because they felt the other person was more competent. There is obviously more to the story here.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

In other words your telling us to step back and look at it in a broader perspective which is understandable. But your first post showed the exact opposite of what you said here. aka leaning toward one end of the spectrum you thought it was fake. Not that its wrong to think that, just some of the posters here felt differently but was scolded for not being 'broad minded' at the opposite spectrum. Thus why MANray_ said what he said about automatically jumping to defend PWI. I didnt say it but i felt it too. b:surrender jus clearing things up

Nah, not scolding. Just stating my opinion like everyone else. And even if I do have many questions about those reviews, it doesn't mean that I will automatically like everything that PWI does. For that matter, I do not hate everything PWI does either. In fact, there are somethings I really love about this game and this community or I would not play and would not moderate it. It's not an either or kind of thing. And sometimes we mods will agree on things and post about them. But that doesn't mean we are trying to gang up on you guys or anything like that. We just have our opinions like every other player. I in particular have always been pretty active in the community and will continue to be so. Discussion is good because it helps us question and challenge our reviews and then reaffirm them or reject them outright. At first I thought it was fake because of how formulaic and the same they all were. Further reading thanks to you guys has made me think maybe that are just overly bias because of the layoffs. I hope some people also learned from me to step back and look at the broader perspective, and to be skeptical of bias sources. Skepticism helps us think critically. Would this kind of thing really be that important to the companies stocks? How much does this affect us really? Is this a reason for me to quit the game? I wonder how biased these reviews are, perhaps it doesn't tell me us as much about the corporate culture as I originally thought? That's the great thing about discussions such as these.