The direction this company is going in...it scares me.

Zsw - Dreamweaver

I don't know about what whatever the reviews say, but recently I think this company has been doing a way better job.

They delivered all their promises such as Snowmen and NW Map fix.
They listened to our request for ini edits.
They even fixed bugs, such as Magic Shell.
They changed dew of star protection so it no longer overrides cleric buffs.
They attempted to rebalance old classes.
They introduced new content, pvp based content, to keep the game interesting.
Our CM has been doing a great job responding and keeping us updated.

That's just to name a few.

And you can't argue nation wars is an act of killing the game. The player base conducted a poll and more people were in favour of nation wars than those who were not.

Zanryu - Lothranis

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I don't know about what whatever the reviews say, but recently I think this company has been doing a way better job.

They delivered all their promises such as Snowmen and NW Map fix.
They listened to our request for ini edits.
They even fixed bugs, such as Magic Shell.
They changed dew of star protection so it no longer overrides cleric buffs.
They attempted to rebalance old classes.
They introduced new content, pvp based content, to keep the game interesting.
Our CM has been doing a great job responding and keeping us updated.

That's just to name a few.

And you can't argue nation wars is an act of killing the game. The player base conducted a poll and more people were in favour of nation wars than those who were not.

Edged Blur bypassing Defense levels and getting extra damage from Attack levels, while also having chances at doing 1.5x damage is just rude. Seekers OP nerf plox! b:angry

Joe - Momaganon

Personally I agree that there were and will always be great troubles within PWE but after all, they try to do something for the communitiy from time to time. Like others said beforehand our new CM does a suprisingly good job and is very present. I have to admit that I never expected something like this.

Surely there will always be the fear that this or all PWE games will get down because they were milked too much but isn't the whole life just about that? We can never be 100% sure that we will keep our job, no matter where we work and we can also never be sure that our future plans will come true.

To have faith and trust in PWE comes on an equal level like the risk of life itself, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

I love this game and played nearly any game from PWE and have to admit that they are and were all good games. I hope that especially PWI will be around for quite a while just because there is no better F2P game out there (believe me, I tried them all, w/o exception xD). Not even Shield Goars 2 got me away from PWI. there's just no escape, but with a great Communitiy like that, how could one possibly want to quit?

Sagek - Sanctuary

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

I always try to take a step back and look at the broader perspective.

I'm not really trying to be a part of this conversation, but I would like to toss in my 2cents and say, This is why I think you make an excellent Mod. You've always been fair in your opinions and I can only admire that.

I'm glad you stuck around Venus. b:victory

Allisandre - Sanctuary

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I don't know about what whatever the reviews say, but recently I think this company has been doing a way better job.

They delivered all their promises such as Snowmen and NW Map fix.
They listened to our request for ini edits.
They even fixed bugs, such as Magic Shell.
They changed dew of star protection so it no longer overrides cleric buffs.
They attempted to rebalance old classes.
They introduced new content, pvp based content, to keep the game interesting.
Our CM has been doing a great job responding and keeping us updated.

That's just to name a few.

And you can't argue nation wars is an act of killing the game. The player base conducted a poll and more people were in favour of nation wars than those who were not.

Just to point out a few things....

~They haven't bothered to even come close to fixing 80% of the bugs that have plagued the game since it was in closed beta. (Many of them aren't a difficult fix because they are simple quest bugs.)
~They haven't bothered to double-check things for our version like the Duke spam or the SP map mode before sending us the patches. (Both of which are easy 30-second fixes. One requires a map to be restarted, and the other requires a server restart. It's a 5 minute job.)
~They don't allow our dev's to touch the files on the servers so that we could get the simple things like this repaired quickly, rather than waiting a few months for someone on PW-CN to get the message, and then get off their *** and apply the simple 30 second fix.
~They haven't bothered to make the TB or EG fliers upgradeable. (Again, it's just adding a simple quest and editing the NPC for the upgrades.)
~First it took them 3 years to fix Magic Shell, then an update broke it again, and now it's fixed again. Who knows what the next patch will bring.
~Same thing goes for the FB bosses glitching. It was an issue, it got fixed, then it got broken, and not only did they re-break it, but they made it worse, and it still hasn't been fixed.
~Have they ever actually finished fixing the genie skill descriptions and effects?
The list goes on....

Many of these issues, end-users have fixed on private servers. Why can't the PW-CN dev's do it?

Yes, Valiance has been a nice and vocal CM. So was Spoons. The problem is getting the upper end in China to start listening to us. It's rarely happened in 4 years. I'm not holding my breath waiting for improvement. The new content is just to placate the playerbase so that we don't completely leave in frustration over how much they are ignoring us. Hell, Morai is just a copy-paste from FW. Reflection is just a copy-pate from Warsong, which was already a copy-paste from the FB109 instance.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

I've actually seen plenty of jobs go to the interns for no reason other than that the person knew and liked the intern. A lot of these internships do not really offer you a good view of what it is like to work that that job. But they do introduce you to the right people. A lot of students try to pick internships that will introduce them to the right people rather than necessarily which one is best for what they are trying to do. I've seen it plenty of times actually.

And nah, there are all kinds of different managerial styles. Ultimately the boss has the final say-so. But to see the difference between say China Top-down and US company for example, take a look at how employees doing things on their own is viewed. In a strictly top-down managerial style it may be seen as usurping authority and you should only do the tasks assigned you. Whereas in the US an employee finding work to do on their own may be viewed as showing initiative. This is especially relevant for a game like this because they can't do some things that other companies may have done on their own.

Same on the interns - in those cases that would be nepotism. But most of the time (at least at good/sane companies) they keep the ones that are good, and don't invite the ones that aren't back. It's more of a try each other out as opposed to blatant opportunity for nepotism.

It's just your definition of Top-Down that is not congruent with the business world. Ideally it talks about where the direction comes from, and who has responsibility for oversight. I assure you, anything with management is top-down, that's really the idea and how it works in terms of organization.

Having taken business classes and sociology classes - I understand there are more types, but they typically don't work due to human nature (and by typically in this case, I mean really don't). The only semi-viable one is the co-op concept. From studies and raw experience with 3 co-ops for hobbies at this point - it doesn't fricken work over a long period of time even with the right people. Bus, Soc, and Philosophy studies/classes/etc really spell it out often - human nature screws with nearly every idea that looks really amazing on paper or in theory. And if you don't take that into account, you will fail.

The initiative vs strict direction following is a culture and/or business ethic - a style almost if you will. I've literally had a chinese company make luggage with zippers inside out - because for some reason that is what the factory manager showed the line manager on accident, nobody questioned it. In a different culture, someone would have said wtf by the first or second one, and someone would have went back and said "Hey, is this wrong?". Either course is top down, just different cultures follow direction different ways. Both work.

(also I don't think you're fanboying/fangirling, just exploring the topic. Its cool)

ovenusarmanio

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

And nah, there are all kinds of different managerial styles.

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Same on the interns - in those cases that would be nepotism. But most of the time (at least at good/sane companies) they keep the ones that are good, and don't invite the ones that aren't back. It's more of a try each other out as opposed to blatant opportunity for nepotism.

It's just your definition of Top-Down that is not congruent with the business world. Ideally it talks about where the direction comes from, and who has responsibility for oversight. I assure you, anything with management is top-down, that's really the idea and how it works in terms of organization.

Having taken business classes and sociology classes - I understand there are more types, but they typically don't work due to human nature (and by typically in this case, I mean really don't). The only semi-viable one is the co-op concept. From studies and raw experience with 3 co-ops for hobbies at this point - it doesn't fricken work over a long period of time even with the right people. Bus, Soc, and Philosophy studies/classes/etc really spell it out often - human nature screws with nearly every idea that looks really amazing on paper or in theory. And if you don't take that into account, you will fail.

The initiative vs strict direction following is a culture and/or business ethic - a style almost if you will. I've literally had a chinese company make luggage with zippers inside out - because for some reason that is what the factory manager showed the line manager on accident, nobody questioned it. In a different culture, someone would have said wtf by the first or second one, and someone would have went back and said "Hey, is this wrong?". Either course is top down, just different cultures follow direction different ways. Both work.

(also I don't think you're fanboying/fangirling, just exploring the topic. Its cool)

I've seen the Peace Corp training and it's one of things they warn you about in their scenarios. Management may always ultimately hold the authority, but that is not what I"m talking about. I'm talking about styles of management, which do vary from region to region in the word. The term for the Chinese style that you see in place hear and at the zipper factory is called top down. It is very common in work places where there exists a high power distance between subordinates and leaders. Not that any of that is important here.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

I've seen the Peace Corp training and it's one of things they warn you about in their scenarios. Management may always ultimately hold the authority, but that is not what I"m talking about. I'm talking about styles of management, which do vary from region to region in the word. The term for the Chinese style that you see in place hear and at the zipper factory is called top down.

Yea...I don't think you're getting what Im saying and Im not sure how to describe it better or in a different way

ovenusarmanio

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yea...I don't think you're getting what Im saying and Im not sure how to describe it better or in a different way

You're talking about locus of power, i'm talking about power distance. One is up to managerial style, the other is a matter of fact. They are two different things. It's only relevant in that it's obviously something that is very strictly in place at PWI. Otherwise our guys would have more permission to change minor coding things such as SP.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

I hope some people also learned from me to step back and look at the broader perspective, and to be skeptical of bias sources. Skepticism helps us think critically. Would this kind of thing really be that important to the companies stocks? How much does this affect us really? Is this a reason for me to quit the game? I wonder how biased these reviews are, perhaps it doesn't tell me us as much about the corporate culture as I originally thought?

hmmm... how to say it...
its not that we didnt know how to look, most of the pple that replied to your post specifically are ones that know how to do that.. but for my example I personally just used the term broader perspective to illustrate a point >_> not sure about anyone else tho



also, for mods, there is no 'them' 'we' and 'us' between the community, such words just make a rift.

*snatches the teacher glasses from venus*

to me you will always be the nooby venus that popped on the forums one day =_=

ovenusarmanio

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

hmmm... how to say it...
its not that we didnt know how to look, most of the pple that replied to your post specifically are ones that know how to do that.. but for my example I personally just used the term broader perspective to illustrate a point >_> not sure about anyone else tho



also, for mods, there is no 'them' 'we' and 'us' between the community, such words just make a rift.

*snatches the teacher glasses from venus*

to me you will always be the nooby venus that popped on the forums one day =_=

Oh I agree was more responding to the gang up on us teacher's pet idea. And I didn't mean life in general, it's just some people forget that when it comes to PWI. I mean I think there would be more reviews if PWI was really as bad as those reviews make it out to be. ^^; And why you take my glasses QQ, i need those to see which cookie place i'm gonna rob next! ::pouts::

FaithDread - Heavens Tear

This sounds exactly like where I work in Retail. Hell ill be surprised if every company isnt like this.

It does all sound a bit OTT though, sounds like they do absolutely nothing to improve the game when they could do sooooo much. They could actively be fixing bugs, creating content, and making a lot more money lol. Only if they didnt sit around being lazy all day, which seems to be the general trend from those reviews. Also management needs to take a beating or 2.

I would gladly work for PWE for free (from home) doing bug fixes, creating content, helping people with their tickets etc because I would love to help a "community" like this grow and become what it has the potential to become. Maybe they should just fire everyone and get an entire new team in. Including myself of courseb:laugh

Burnout - Harshlands

My experience is that, almost EVERY large-ish company has a little corruption, where they have certain employees who will slack off, play video games, watch moves, etc. It's just not possible for a large company to control everything that's going on unless their managers and corporate culture are something truly extraordinary. Even large, well-established companies can have appallingly bad processes.

Regardless, I think PWI has somewhat done decently the past few months, though I don't feel as if their employees are truly passionate about their job. I think this is inevitable, though, given that PWE is largely beholden to China and don't have the ability to create much on their own.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

You're talking about locus of power, i'm talking about power distance. One is up to managerial style, the other is a matter of fact. They are two different things. It's only relevant in that it's obviously something that is very strictly in place at PWI. Otherwise our guys would have more permission to change minor coding things such as SP.

Yea were having different conversations then, and I haven't even really delved into locus. Ah well.

They can't change coding cause the source is done in China and then translated and shipped to us. Change our side, that means the source is now different, and everything goes to hell. Thats the business model and I don't blame em.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Nahktuul - Archosaur wrote: »

Understandably, all corporations are money driven. And they lay off people, to conserve money, downsize and recoup resources.

No, from all the things that i have undertaken in life and all the employers that i have worked for, i have learned one thing that seems like a universal trueth to me: Whatever you do, if you do it primarily for money, it will fail. If you just focus on doing the best you can, the money will come automatically.

And all to often, people or corporations start out with the right focus, but gradually shift to the money focus until they will fail. Even the game producer that i have respected by far most of all during the last one and half decade (Blizzard) seems to go this direction.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

Even the game producer that i have respected by far most of all during the last one and half decade (Blizzard) seems to go this direction.

You mean you just noticed this now? Because Blizzard's-Activision honchos despising and looking down on both its customers and employees has been a matter of public record since at least half that time period... it reminds me of the people first getting into MMO gaming who think SOE must be a decent company because of Sony's reputation elsewhere... If absolutely everything bad we've heard about PWE is true, it would still look like a corporate good guy compared to those two.

And Venus, great response, although i think you completely misrepresented the point I was trying to make... Nevermind, let's just leave it at that...b:sweat

Teseanna - Heavens Tear

Lesthar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Gee... You could at least have a more insightful comment. b:shutup

My statement usually means i agree with what has been said.

It has all been said in this thread. What more insight could i add.

I agree.

Lesthar - Heavens Tear

Teseanna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

My statement usually means i agree with what has been said.

It has all been said in this thread. What more insight could i add.

I agree.

Oh, I see now. Thanks for the feedback.
Usually people tend to ignore my rants (I don't even get counter-arguments on my posts), so your positive comment is very appreciated. b:thanks

Decus - Dreamweaver

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

*snatches the teacher glasses from venus*

I'll take those, thanks very much. *snatches away from Decep*

Leave the teaching to those of us that actually are teachers. b:cute

Aowenn - Archosaur

Ok, now i'm no genius, i'm far from it, but what i see is a really great game being killed off by greed. Yup, people will always pay with their own money for games like this, that's how they are. But if less is sorted on this game ( lag, glitches etc ) then people will start to move to other games. The whole point of a business is to make money, nothing else. They don't care, they have no emotions, unless it makes them profit.

HOWEVER

Greed makes you blind, and if you miss the smaller people, then you rely on the 'richer' people to bail you out


And that will be the downfall of this game

Banndit - Heavens Tear

Does this sound familiar. At one time people invaded their neighbouring country and pillage anything of value, now we trade with each other generally to improve our living standard. At one time, to be a king, you have to inherit it, now we elect who is the best for the job to represent us. If you dig deeper, you might find that in the past, there were alot more me me me, but now theirs less of it and some of it has transform into me and us. Its not just business thats focus on me me me for more money, its us people too, but if i'm not mistaken, when we learn enough, then we realise that theres more when we compliment each other.

Heres a thought. Could it be that one of the reason why Confucius was so well known was because he was able to transform alot of me me me into a me and us in a short period of time. (Edit) From the little that I know of him from here and there, some of his teaching imo may not be for us today but I think learning what he could do is still valuable.

Nahktuul - Archosaur

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

No, from all the things that i have undertaken in life and all the employers that i have worked for, i have learned one thing that seems like a universal trueth to me: Whatever you do, if you do it primarily for money, it will fail. If you just focus on doing the best you can, the money will come automatically.

And all to often, people or corporations start out with the right focus, but gradually shift to the money focus until they will fail. Even the game producer that i have respected by far most of all during the last one and half decade (Blizzard) seems to go this direction.

Tell that to Apple, Microsoft, Wal-Mart....the list goes on and on.

But I do agree with you, but with a side note: All things fail. No matter what it is. Eventually, it comes to an end. And something surfaces to replace it.

Its all a matter of what decisions and focus, as you stated, that decides how quickly it takes to fail.

Kinjeto - Raging Tide

Mooooooooo - Lost City wrote: »

Tl;dr

Then view a slideshow . b:laugh

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

No, from all the things that i have undertaken in life and all the employers that i have worked for, i have learned one thing that seems like a universal trueth to me: Whatever you do, if you do it primarily for money, it will fail. If you just focus on doing the best you can, the money will come automatically.

And all to often, people or corporations start out with the right focus, but gradually shift to the money focus until they will fail. Even the game producer that i have respected by far most of all during the last one and half decade (Blizzard) seems to go this direction.

Sorry to say but that is wrong. You only fail if you get reckless. If you are a master strategist in life, you can do anything.

scarfaceclaw

They only take your money if you give it to them. see my sig.

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary

scarfaceclaw wrote: »

They only take your money if you give it to them. see my sig.

Indeed, and we have a lot of fools who give them their usually hard - earned money, then complain that nothing is being done to improve the game, news flash, as long as they can receive money from the players, they won`t change a damn thing, if they see that money flow has dramatically decreased ( I don`t expect it to stop), they will either shut the game or be forced to investigate the reasons for it and, hence, possibly make some changes!

OIdpop - Heavens Tear

I wonder if people who spent 1000's i nthis game are going to look back one day and say..damn wtf did i dob:laugh

oh they make changes,usually the changes deal in crippling the coin department,they may add a few new maps here and there then they get old aftr a few months,the only thing keeping morai from being a ghost map is the dailies since they actually have some decent stuff,but as for out on the regualr map,,AB SO LUTE LY Noth ING.I wonder how pwe feels on wasted map space down in tellus,tides,and many othe locations where questing and other stuff was taking place at one time.

bah oh well complaining isnt gonna help i guess,all i do is bh's,help some people from time to time then log off after some hours and think in the back of my mind sheesh i could have done something productive in Rl than sit here semi afking looking like a fool lol

Gravediggr - Dreamweaver

gamekillz wrote: »

Thats what I mean. Wanmei is corrupting PWE slowly. Its going to affect us all soon if its not turned around.

EDIT: sorry for double post... rookie mistake...

It will only affect you if you allow it to!

Alsiadorra - Sanctuary

Allisandre - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's precicely because of this, and because of the direction PWE has been headed over the past three years, that I was SO disappointed to hear that the new NWN MMO is being published by PWE.

I mean, It's probably going to be an absolutely Epic game, that will get completely ruined by this monster of a company.

Fear not Allisandre

Published. Not developed.