Hateful Speech in World Chat and Moderator Response

MCrowley - Raging Tide · October 2012

First off is the job of forum moderators to make the forums an enjoyable place to communicate or a place for them to ego trip? So far it would seem that ego tripping and not being helpful is the name of the game. Would be nice to know what is the official reason that PWI has forum moderators though.

Secondly, hateful speech in world chat. Does everyone agree that it is okay, because anyone with a brain knows you can not blacklist all of the "offenders" or totally disregard world chat? If that is the case, how about we get rid of that annoying habit of this game to censor certain words that have been deemed offensive. I mean I find hate speech to be much more offensive than any four letter word that is currently being turned into gibberish, and the right to offend would seem to be an integral part of our game play. If that is the case, and respect is really not something this community wants, then I want my favorite word to stop being turned into ####. I do not care that it is offensive. I like it and if you don't, you can go #### yours... err.... I mean blacklist me.

Xainou - Sanctuary · October 2012

Pull up your big girl pants and put up with it. Unless you volunteer to keep the chat clean 24/7...

TempleSlave - Lost City · October 2012

PWI has forum moderators because a forum needs moderating and they don't want to pay an individual to do that full time. Actually you'd still need 2-3 employees to do this at differnt times of the day. That's at least $100k a year. So they find 'volunteers' instead. lol

To moderate the servers, they would need 2-3 individuals per server and they would have to constantly monitor all of the servers. That price tag means it would never, ever happen.

MCrowley - Raging Tide · October 2012

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Pull up your big girl pants and put up with it. Unless you volunteer to keep the chat clean 24/7...

Being an adult is being respectful towards others. I will dismiss your reply as coming from a place of privilege or of someone who has not had enough life experiences to realize how hurtful words can be.

leonidas22a · October 2012

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Pull up your big girl pants and put up with it. Unless you volunteer to keep the chat clean 24/7...

Xainou being as annoying as usual.

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary · October 2012

Give players an unlimited black list, would solve the annoying re tard problem on World Chat.

Xainou - Sanctuary · October 2012

MCrowley - Raging Tide wrote: »

I will dismiss your reply as coming from a place of privilege or of someone who has not had enough life experiences to realize how hurtful words can be.

Or enough to learn how to not give a damn and instead choose to ignore it with the given methods.

krisnda · October 2012

MCrowley - Raging Tide wrote: »

First off is the job of forum moderators to make the forums an enjoyable place to communicate or a place for them to ego trip? Not sure where you got this from, we've been keeping the forums clean, and have even tried to help foreword the game by giving the CM, your ideas so he can look at them and even (maybe) implement some of them, I take offense to this statement. You make it seem like all we do is troll around, closing threads and being ***** to the community when all we do here is try and help.

So far it would seem that ego tripping and not being helpful is the name of the game. Would be nice to know what is the official reason that PWI has forum moderators though.

The answer to that is:

PWI has forum moderators because a forum needs moderating and they don't want to pay an individual to do that full time. Actually you'd still need 2-3 employees to do this at differnt times of the day. That's at least $100k a year. So they find 'volunteers' instead. lol

Secondly, hateful speech in world chat. Does everyone agree that it is okay, because anyone with a brain knows you can not blacklist all of the "offenders" or totally disregard world chat? I would agree, no it's not "ok". That's what the ticket system is for, no matter how much of a "joke" you think that is.

If that is the case, how about we get rid of that annoying habit of this game to censor certain words that have been deemed offensive. I mean I find hate speech to be much more offensive than any four letter word that is currently being turned into gibberish, and the right to offend would seem to be an integral part of our game play. This makes no sense. So you'd rather have the "hateful speech" in the game rather than the censored words. Now I agree that there should be someone monitoring the WC in-game, but what your suggesting wouldn't help at all.

If that is the case, and respect is really not something this community wants, then I want my favorite word to stop being turned into ####. I do not care that it is offensive. I like it and if you don't, you can go #### yours... err.... I mean blacklist me.

There ya go, I'll leave this open for a bit.

Empu - Sanctuary · October 2012

On your first point, I don't think moderators do a bad job on forums. Topics are moved or deleted pretty fast when needed. I didn't notice an excessive abuse of power or anything of that kind. They also reply on opinion and class/game info topics. Ofc, I don't always agree and just sometimes don't understand their action, but overall I think they do a good job. Especially considering they are volonteers.

On the second point, I didn't vote cause neither choice seems right to me. I tend to go for "free speech" as wc can be completely ignored. I play a lot without having wc on my screen. Since you can choose to not see it, I don't see much reasons to monitor it. It's just to big off a task anyway, sometimes wc idiocy goes in different languages, often there are 2 fighting which is impossible to judge on who's "right", the reaction will always be after the harm is done anyway, horrible things can be said in squad chat also. As long as it's not imposed to follow, I don't see how it can ruin others game experience to much (for that reason I am opposed to horns).

However, this doesn't mean I think everything and anything is alright. Which is why I don't like your 2 limited poll options and didn't vote. There are always topics that should not be brought to wc, or ways not to bring the topics to wc. But there is not a clear line. Some ppl consider their gameplay deteriorated if a genital organ is named on their screen, while others lol at horrible racist jokes. It will always stay a matter of personal decision, so "Enjoyable Gaming Experience for All" is just not possible. Keep it realistic and send a ticket if you see something you really can't accept.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · October 2012

There is a simple way to ignore world chat completely though. And still have your chat channels open.

I'll show you how.

Step 1: On the bottom right hand corner of your screen is a button that looks like a little gear. Click it. (The one you use to log out)

Step 2: Click the picture of the computer monitor. This is your client setting.

Step 3: Click the Game Tab.

Step 4: In the chat region area click "Trade" which is a normally ignored chat setting.

Step 5: Check the boxes for "Normal" "Faction" "Squad" and "System"

Step 6: Hit Confirm

Step 7: Where you normally switch to faction or squad mode for that, instead switch over to the trade channel.

And voila you now have all your channels open but cannot see world chat. When you need to use world chat to sell something simply hit type in !@ before any words you want to to use to advertise. This way you do NOT have to have world chat open to use it. You can do the same thing when forming squads.

For example: Typing in "!@Forming BH aba pm me class" will cause anyone with their world chat channel open to see "forming bh aba pm me class." If you want to know how often your chats are being bumped or want to look to see if anyone is forming a squad in world chat. All you have to do is switch over to the world chat channel and temporarily blacklist whoever is being annoying or offensive at the time. Once you're done with world chat, simply remove them from the blacklist so that you have room for the next time you need to use it.

Note: Make sure you delete the USD/money sign before you type in world chat. Otherwise you'll see "!@forming bh aba pm me class" in trade chat instead.

Here is an example of using the trade channel in action:

Turned on trade channel settings. http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i40/ariesdragon123/2012-10-2414-56-08_zps2fa76d48.png

Me making a world chat and getting a response without world chat turned on. http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i40/ariesdragon123/2012-10-2414-58-21_zpsccb44aff.png

What it looks like in world chat. http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i40/ariesdragon123/worldchat_zpsbb498363.png

AdiLynnRose - Raging Tide · October 2012

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary wrote: »

Give players an unlimited black list, would solve the annoying re tard problem on World Chat.

This +1000

I've seen a "moderator" act worse then some of the biggest WC trolls and sadly they're still a mod....Gotta love PWI logic

SashaGray - Heavens Tear · October 2012

MCrowley - Raging Tide wrote: »

First off is the job of forum moderators to make the forums an enjoyable place to communicate or a place for them to ego trip? So far it would seem that ego tripping and not being helpful is the name of the game. Would be nice to know what is the official reason that PWI has forum moderators though.

Secondly, hateful speech in world chat. Does everyone agree that it is okay, because anyone with a brain knows you can not blacklist all of the "offenders" or totally disregard world chat? If that is the case, how about we get rid of that annoying habit of this game to censor certain words that have been deemed offensive. I mean I find hate speech to be much more offensive than any four letter word that is currently being turned into gibberish, and the right to offend would seem to be an integral part of our game play. If that is the case, and respect is really not something this community wants, then I want my favorite word to stop being turned into ####. I do not care that it is offensive. I like it and if you don't, you can go #### yours... err.... I mean blacklist me.

time to belt your balls on, Dorothy. Life sucks, get a helmet.

Since when are enjoyment and freedom mutually exclusive?

leonidas22a · October 2012

Venus You Have Mail!!!!

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · October 2012

leonidas22a wrote: »

Venus You Have Mail!!!!

If you are the veno from Raging tide that PM me on my forum username as opposed to this character, then I have replied. If not you'll have to resend it as I didn't get it. Please send it to VenusArmani-Dreamweaver as this is the only character that I post on and the mailboxes are separate.

Tsukyini - Raging Tide · October 2012

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Or enough to learn how to not give a damn and instead choose to ignore it with the given methods.

^ This.

The internet is no place for people with thin skin. The best thing you can do is ignore people who are trying to annoy you. If you respond, in any way, they know they are bothering you, and will take that as encouragement to continue. If you just ignore them, they will eventually get bored and move on to something else.

Alsiadorra - Sanctuary · October 2012

WTB bigger blacklist limit.

lordmot · October 2012

inb4\ Blacklist Expansion Stone - only 5 gold in the boutique

Knownase - Heavens Tear · October 2012

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Or enough to learn how to not give a damn and instead choose to ignore it with the given methods.

Game. Set. Match.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · October 2012

I was going to say the same thing than Venus and say to turn off the world chat if there's to many people that offend you.

We are Perfect World International so we have people from every country so ofc not everyone have the same education and some people don't care about offend people as some people don't get offended by something someone else will be.

The best way to enjoy the game for you is to black list people you don't wanna see talk or turn off world chat or in worse case if you feel it's too heavy take SS and send a ticket and they will judge if really they need to make a move.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · October 2012

I have as thick a skin as anyone, my concern is not the "omg they said Hitler **** transsexual" in WC but that people use WC as their personal social hangout. People have personal arguments or talk nonsense for hours in Sanctuary. We have a kid who brags about spending $30k on PWI and has done little more with that than buy teles for the past few years.

No big deal, I can ignore that, but in the process I can't play PWI because squad making become more difficult and turning over items slower because messages get lost in WC. We pay the cost of a tele fee, it should at least have a chance to be seen.

What would people think of an addendum to PWI code stating that "WC use should be limited to trade, squad organization, or gameplay aspects." Anyone not following these rules gets a WC ban for 1 week or something. Not a total ban, just something to clear WC.

I see the argument that pwi will lose money from people who literally are paying just to talk here, but I'd counter that it'd open up gameplay for the rest of us and that would be better for their pockets.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear · October 2012

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I see the argument that pwi will lose money from people who literally are paying just to talk here, but I'd counter that it'd open up gameplay for the rest of us and that would be better for their pockets.

If i ever see your "argument" and its supporting defenses ever land on my desk... it would have been throw right back at your face. You would then be promptly provided with a box and "asked" to clear out your personal belonings and vacate the building in the next 45 minutes.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · October 2012

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I have as thick a skin as anyone, my concern is not the "omg they said Hitler **** transsexual" in WC but that people use WC as their personal social hangout. People have personal arguments or talk nonsense for hours in Sanctuary. We have a kid who brags about spending $30k on PWI and has done little more with that than buy teles for the past few years.

No big deal, I can ignore that, but in the process I can't play PWI because squad making become more difficult and turning over items slower because messages get lost in WC. We pay the cost of a tele fee, it should at least have a chance to be seen.

What would people think of an addendum to PWI code stating that "WC use should be limited to trade, squad organization, or gameplay aspects." Anyone not following these rules gets a WC ban for 1 week or something. Not a total ban, just something to clear WC.

I see the argument that pwi will lose money from people who literally are paying just to talk here, but I'd counter that it'd open up gameplay for the rest of us and that would be better for their pockets.

When we waste teles and have to make a new chat, that increases their chances that we will have to spend money too. There really isn't an economic incentive for them to limit world chat usage except for extreme circumstances.

truekossy · October 2012

Rude, spiteful, disgusting, or offensive speech?! On the internet?! Le gasp!

You need thick skin to survive online. It's just how the internet is. And, unless you're living the sheltered life you accused Xainou of, you'll have to get used to it fast. If it's that horrible to you, submit a ticket but accept that it's likely nothing will be done.

Mimiroppu - Heavens Tear · October 2012

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I have as thick a skin as anyone, my concern is not the "omg they said Hitler **** transsexual" in WC but that people use WC as their personal social hangout. People have personal arguments or talk nonsense for hours in Sanctuary. We have a kid who brags about spending $30k on PWI and has done little more with that than buy teles for the past few years.

No big deal, I can ignore that, but in the process I can't play PWI because squad making become more difficult and turning over items slower because messages get lost in WC. We pay the cost of a tele fee, it should at least have a chance to be seen.

What would people think of an addendum to PWI code stating that "WC use should be limited to trade, squad organization, or gameplay aspects." Anyone not following these rules gets a WC ban for 1 week or something. Not a total ban, just something to clear WC. I think they would call that a "chat mute". Either way, there would need to be someone to monitor it.

I see the argument that pwi will lose money from people who literally are paying just to talk here, but I'd counter that it'd open up gameplay for the rest of us and that would be better for their pockets.

Honestly? That would suck. The argument is that people are being inappropriate on WC and it should be limited.

My rebuttal? WC would become plain and mechanical. WC is the first thing people see (usually) when they log in. If it was limited to sales and the like, it would seem like the game was dead and no one cares. Like... the social aspect was removed. There is a way to shut off WC, like Venus stated and it should be used.

I personally think that if you can't handle the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen. Internet isn't for everyone.

I like seeing people acting outside the hive mind. It's refreshing. Granted, they can be bad and offensive, but not everyone is like that. It also gives you an idea of who/what you should avoid. A little learning experience on what to expect.

Tigriss_o - Raging Tide · October 2012

The Mods are to keep the peace here on the forums.everyone knows when you see a rule violation your supposed to submit a ticket. I saw the threads being closed. They all turned into people flaming those who got offended.That's the reason they was closed. Hell this thread started out the op getting insulted. They also ended up having people degrading PWE or it's employees which is against the TOS.

Mimiroppu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Honestly? That would suck. The argument is that people are being inappropriate on WC and it should be limited.

My rebuttal? WC would become plain and mechanical. WC is the first thing people see (usually) when they log in. If it was limited to sales and the like, it would seem like the game was dead and no one cares. Like... the social aspect was removed. There is a way to shut off WC, like Venus stated and it should be used.

I personally think that if you can't handle the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen. Internet isn't for everyone.

I like seeing people acting outside the hive mind. It's refreshing. Granted, they can be bad and offensive, but not everyone is like that. It also gives you an idea of who/what you should avoid. A little learning experience on what to expect.

I'm gonna have to dispute you by saying the TOS have a Code of conduct and if it is Violated as it conatantly is in WC the guilty parties should be limited and punished. and she had a huge point I can't remember how many times I tried selling something or get a squad and my ads didn't spend any time on the chat windows because how fast people was spamming. Now I don't mind people playing around in WC but alot of times it gets out of hand and offensive and leads to a huge fight.

It would be much more benneficial for the game if WC was limited in some way. as it's stands now most of the players never even pay any attention to WC. I don't most of the time because of all the trash in WC. Get rid of the trash and keep only ads for squads and selling ECT and the occasional **** around people would be more inclined to pay attention to WC and to use it. Which could lead to increased revenue for PWE because more people could end up using WC for selling and finding squads ECT. yeah the trolls spend tons of money to troll but higher number people buying low numbers of teles each can make more money then a low number of trolls buying high numbers of teles each

Reliea - Sanctuary · October 2012

I don't really see the forum mobs, whuups, I mean mods XD, as doing anything but a pretty good job. Very few pointless threads are left open, and mostly people behave themselves around here anyway. Really only sometimes I believe certain threads are closed too soon, and usually that's only when I disagree with the mods personal opinion regarding a subject, and they've ended on it giving an opinion that I believe could still continue discussion. Or at least I would say a differing opinion is just as valid and threads (if being closed) aught to be ended on a more neutral opinion from a FM if one is to be given regarding the actual content of the post.

As far as WC is concerned, I don't believe that Blacklisting is the answer. I don't believe in ignoring bigotry or rudeness, or tolerating that kind of behaviour. Sure we have the free speech to say whatever we like, but there should be consequences for that kind of thing. One such consequence should be banning, yes I believe that. Do I care that this would cost PW money to employ GMs to, M the G? No. M the damn G for a change.

Do I believe that WC should be the place for conversations? No. So I agree with Saku, it's intended to find squads/help/answers at best, and sell things at worst. Congratulation on achievements, birthdays n such are also nice to see.
Feel that conversations will be lost? Nope. Because most of the 'conversations' would be taken care of by whispers, guild chat, or common chat. Most of these people are just talking to see themselves talk, or show off. Thankfully most of the time WC is ok, but there are always a few people who enjoy seeing themselves talk, and in those cases, Blacklist works perfectly fine.

MCrowley - Raging Tide · October 2012

After rereading my original post I realized two things. First off, even though I do have issues with some of the ways in which moderators sometimes moderate this forum, I do not believe in general they do a bad job. I apologize for this remark. It should have really been saved for a private correspondence. It was also much harsher than it should have been in any situation, and was an useless addition that had nothing to do with the 2nd part of my post. I am very sorry.

I also realize that my second point was unclear. I was attempting to make a joke about the fact that anything does seem to go in world chat, while certain deemed bad words are censored. Not that it much matters since everyone has pretty much found a way around this censorship. But either way I find this silly. Anything goes is anything goes. I was curious as to how people in general feel about this, and there are some very interesting opinions, many of which are better worded versions of my own opinion. World chat as a place for personal vendettas is one of the most annoying issues of world chat in general and does take away from our ability to find squads or to sell/buy merchandise. But I am not sure how this issue could really be controlled. Sometimes people feel the need to vent even when it is inappropriate. This does not make them bad people who should be banned. I think in most situations a warning would probably do but I really do not know. Maybe more responses to tickets would be nice. Maybe most people do have their tickets responded to and I am in the minority.

On a side note, I have been in many different "internet" communities and long ago learned to live with the offensive nature of the internet. But, these were free communities with no vested interest in a profit. They were not trying to part me from my money.

Oh, and sorry to one of the 1st responders. My response was lacking. I do not know your life situation and therefore should have never responded as such.

ponyduck · October 2012

MCCrowley, I agree with your point about un-censoring all words,
for exactly the reason you give. Over the years playing this game,
I've seen in wc some of the most offensive talk about Hitler, Jews,
Afros, various religions, pedophilia, r*pe, & too many sexual acts
to even begin to list, going on unchecked.

Then, in the midst of all this vile talk, I see words like f*ck and
a**hole being censored. All I can do is shake my head & smile at
how nonsensical it all is.

Personally I don't care what PWI censors--I virtually never use wc,
and rarely use the words in question at all. Words don't bother me.
When I see some truly repugnant things being wc'd with impunity,
I am momentarily disturbed by the idea that these are real people
out there in the world with this type of mentality. But that's about
the extent of it for me.

OK, on to the really serious gripe I have: b:laugh

Now that the word "f*ck" is ubiquitous, it has lost its punch.
And there's no new worst word left to take its place. I'm mad that
"f*ck" has now been so diluted by overuse, it's virtually worthless.

As one of the older (if not the oldest) in real life player of PWI, I
grew up with "f*ck" being the forbidden zone, the one word you NEVER
said, the ultimate bad-word-to-end-all-bad-words. It hurt most people's
mouths to say it. You felt your ears bleed if you heard it spoken.
It was an immediate ticket to hell.

Consequently, it became where we all held that word in a weird sort
of reverence, as still the one thing you couldn't say, the lone hold-out,
the word out there for use IN AN EMERGENCY ONLY. Our straits were never
so dire, fortunately, as to have to use it, but still, it was there if per
horrible chance we needed it.

Now all that's gone. There's nothing to look forward to. The thrill,
the daring is all gone. Our refuge for desperate times is gone.

And that was the last word. We used it up.
There's no more left.

b:angry b:cry
F*ck it all.

Zhu - Lost City · October 2012

I'd rather people were nice to each other.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · October 2012

Mimiroppu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Honestly? That would suck. The argument is that people are being inappropriate on WC and it should be limited.

My rebuttal? WC would become plain and mechanical. WC is the first thing people see (usually) when they log in. If it was limited to sales and the like, it would seem like the game was dead and no one cares. Like... the social aspect was removed. There is a way to shut off WC, like Venus stated and it should be used.

I personally think that if you can't handle the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen. Internet isn't for everyone.

I like seeing people acting outside the hive mind. It's refreshing. Granted, they can be bad and offensive, but not everyone is like that. It also gives you an idea of who/what you should avoid. A little learning experience on what to expect.

I personally have my WC off about 98% of the time, as do a bulk of PWI people. WC has essentialy been abandoned to idiots, trolls, and pk trash talkers.

I don't mean for WC to become boring but it has a purpose; Finding squads and trading. I find plenty of colorful personalities in my squads, friend them, and having my offensive banter in faction chat or private message.

I think the fact that pwi is catering to a handful of idiots spamming teles discourages the bulk of their clientile from using teles and ultimately finding squads and enjoying gameplay. There's pwi's financial incentive.

AliceAdams - Lost City · October 2012

Not gonna read through all of this at the moment, cuz it's late and I need sleep, but...

I think the hate speech in the world chat is pretty bad. There are still minors that play this game, and I feel this is something to keep in mind. If you are incapable of expressing yourself without resorting to foul language, slang, and hate speech ALL THE TIME, then you probably have nothing worth saying in the first place.

I'm all for free speech, and find it more offensive to censor people. But some of the garbage in wc would make a gang member blush.

Hateful Speech in World Chat and Moderator Response

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