Soloing WS Pav w/ Barb

Night$aber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Water mobs have no pdef but they spawn 3 times faster than earth pav mobs and can purge.Earth seems easiest pavilion for a melee class imo.
Edit: Long time no see nab :P.

All pavilions (at least all melee pavilions) can purge. It just happens more often on water because water has more mobs.

Personally, on my barb I prefer soloing water. Reason: bestial rage allows for constant sparks and sunders and armas and, if needed, invoke. Water mobs also explode for way less hp, so if they explode you won't even tick. If you have bp, your aoes will be enough to heal you so you'll be perfectly safe (until purged, if you do get purged).

Most times the barb is required to help clerics with fire pavilion, though, which is the easiest job ever. Just keep the head busy and you're fine.

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Really I'd take any full warsong offered to you on your barb and be happy defending whatever they ask. People on my server rarely, if ever take a barb to warsong past a buff alt.

Wow, people on your server are a bunch of jerks (or barbs on your server too incompetent to make themselves worth taking). :O

In Dreamweaver it's pretty rare to see a barbless warsong going on. It sucks to have to go out if someone gets exploded on or purged just to get buffs again. And sometimes going out glitches the whole thing and you miss a badge (have had that happen to someone in squad).

All that to save what? 1/2 a second on bosses? Actually, I think a barb makes the runs go faster and smoothier, since they run faster anyway, so gathering the mobs to aoe gets easier. Metal, earth and fire mobs can all be gathered so easily in just a few pulls (sure, bms/seekers can do that. They just take longer and risk death more often, unless they're ubergeared, which is not the case for 80% of the runs going on), it makes one wonder why not take a barb at all.

What Mae said is true. But earth mobs explode for something like 80% of max hp? Something like that. Water mobs explode for something like 20% (numbers might be - probably are - off, but that's just so you know they don't explode all with the same str). So you don't necessarily have to run from an exploding water mob, and mistakes are optentially less dangerous. Still, at lvl 95 your best call would most likely be earth. Invoke doesn't help you against the exploding mobs, it's a system fixed value of a % of your max hp.

augustfinknottle wrote: »

Wow, people on your server are a bunch of jerks (or barbs on your server too incompetent to make themselves worth taking). :O

Mix of both of those and people wanting much faster runs. Barbs can't hold consistent aggro [if at all], they don't do as much damage as other AoE classes, and BMs/Sins/Seekers/Venos pull just as well, if not better if the team chooses to pull mobs instead of just jumping the bosses with the a ton of DD instead of clearing.

I've gone with a two Strength-ish R9 Barbs, and a couple of standard vit build ones. Poor kids barely had aggro, and the BMs, Psy, Archers, Wizards all did better single and aoe target DD. Even on my Barb with 42k hp, the Sunder-Arma Demon Crit combo is a joke compared to what other classes can contribute.

Until Barbs get aggro skills fixed they're buff alts in PvE 100+ (especially warsong) unless the team is way undergeared and/or underplayed. I've come in to help way undergeared squads with fire before, and I kid you not each time - the timer ran out before we finished getting to water. It took that long, and you had to wonder why they were there in the first place.

Sure, you can run with a barb - but they aren't wanted or needed whatsoever past their buffs with a talented squad, even average geared.

Really when you've run 40+ warsongs it gets old.
-As said above, many many classes can pull it well, so that's not a pro for the Barb.
-Barbs can't hold aggro - not a pro for the Barb.
-Barb damage is way less than most other AOE classes, which is a huge factor. If you add 60 seconds onto each of the 5 typical pulls before Wood/Water because you brought a barb instead of a DD, Thats 5 minutes; not a big deal. If you add 30-60 seconds on to the 1/2/3 groups in wood/water though...you're adding like 15 minutes; thats a big deal.
-Barb contributes virtually nothing to the boss mobs besides devour which a veno or cleric comes close to anyways. The actual difference between a barb devouring and utilizing other debuffs is more like "1/2 a second".

People being jerks or sucking is self explanatory. But in terms of experienced/talented squads, the above is why there is like 5 barbs parked outside in afk buff alt mode on any given night for those that don't just bring it into the instance and log it off there.

Personally, I want to get in, do my thing, push limits, get my badges/molds, and GTFO. I don't want to spend 2-4 hours in warsong, I don't even wanna spend 10 more minutes than I have to. Having a Barb is like having half a squad mate there. Sure, it may be jerky to say that, but its true - I even have a level 101 barb and I say that from pure experience on both sides of the fence.

Also the best puller for the whole zone is a good veno, hands down. If the veno refuses to defend or even help pull, boot em cause this place is made for them and they're cowards or suck.

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I've come in to help way undergeared squads with fire before, and I kid you not each time - the timer ran out before we finished getting to water. It took that long, and you had to wonder why they were there in the first place.

Jesus! I've never, ever had that happen on any squad I've ran with. And I've been to quite some warsongs myself too, and some had clerics with 4k hp and sins with just under 6k. Terrible thing to see there are people wasting 4 hours on a full warsong.

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sure, you can run with a barb - but they aren't wanted or needed whatsoever past their buffs with a talented squad, even average geared.

I think it's safe to say that no class is NEEDED for warsong, bar cleric (even then, a mystic might be able to take his job, depending on the squad and having a psy to purify). The whole point of saving time goes to waste when you just NEED some class and stays on world chat for 10/20 minutes looking for someone specific. Getting a seeker might be hard, or a wiz, or a psy, or an archer. So filling that spot with a barb is just fine and probably quicker. Refusing to take a barb takes longer, I believe, because the recruiting also takes longer.

Every squad will ask for BMs and sins not because they're absolutely needed, but because they're nice to have and abundant, so it'll take like what? 2 teles to get those? But getting a veno? At least in Dreamweaver, good luck with that.

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

People being jerks or sucking is self explanatory. But in terms of experienced/talented squads, the above is why there is like 5 barbs parked outside in afk buff alt mode on any given night for those that don't just bring it into the instance and log it off there.

Granted, if you're making a fixed squad to run it over and over, then, by all means, a barb might not be the best option. If you're recruiting at that time, though, taking a barb won't hurt and won't make it longer.

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Also the best puller for the whole zone is a good veno, hands down. If the veno refuses to defend or even help pull, boot em cause this place is made for them and they're cowards or suck.

I still think a good barb pulls better than a good veno there, but we can just disagree here. It's much more a matter of opinion than actually a fact. And on lesser than optimal squads (the kind that takes lvl 95 people in), a barb would definitely be a better option than a veno.

augustfinknottle wrote: »

Jesus! I've never, ever had that happen on any squad I've ran with. And I've been to quite some warsongs myself too, and some had clerics with 4k hp and sins with just under 6k. Terrible thing to see there are people wasting 4 hours on a full warsong.

Just very undergeared people, thats all - both times they weren't bad players, just not enough DD. I didn't really run with them, I got asked to come in and help late in the instance. I have a smattering of friends of all gear levels (although Id say they're all good to excellent players).

augustfinknottle wrote: »

I think it's safe to say that no class is NEEDED for warsong, bar cleric (even then, a mystic might be able to take his job, depending on the squad and having a psy to purify). The whole point of saving time goes to waste when you just NEED some class and stays on world chat for 10/20 minutes looking for someone specific. Getting a seeker might be hard, or a wiz, or a psy, or an archer. So filling that spot with a barb is just fine and probably quicker. Refusing to take a barb takes longer, I believe, because the recruiting also takes longer.

Every squad will ask for BMs and sins not because they're absolutely needed, but because they're nice to have and abundant, so it'll take like what? 2 teles to get those? But getting a veno? At least in Dreamweaver, good luck with that.

Granted, if you're making a fixed squad to run it over and over, then, by all means, a barb might not be the best option. If you're recruiting at that time, though, taking a barb won't hurt and won't make it longer.

I still think a good barb pulls better than a good veno there, but we can just disagree here. It's much more a matter of opinion than actually a fact. And on lesser than optimal squads (the kind that takes lvl 95 people in), a barb would definitely be a better option than a veno.

I've tried with just mystic. Without cleric buffs it suxxxxxx bad. Honestly BB really helps avoid charm ticks and deaths for the low HP people on AOEs.

Dunno there always seems to be an abundance of people wanting to run WC warsongs on HT, I only see the people known to run fail squads have to look forever for slots, or on odd nights - and even then seemingly only about 20 mins to fill the squads. Usually if you say you have a cleric the squad fills really fast with a smattering of whatever you want.

If it really was a 15-20 minute wait to fill a WC squad and you had 1 slot left and a Barb volunteered, sure. But I'm talking preference and need - which if I read correctly were agreeing on.

Believe me its fact with the good veno (good being operative word) - Fox form, pull, Nova the pull - plenty of time for everyone to setup and the veno is just fine due to all the immune skills and etc. Having pulled myself on both toons, had others pull it, and had venos pull it - I'll let a good veno pull anytime. And I love pulling...they're just that much better at it in warsong.

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

Do the venos pull the whole pavillion or just 1/4, 1/3 or 1/2 way?

Metal: Whole thing.

Earth: I've had a few succeed repeatedly on the whole thing but tend to do it in 2 sections due to mobs getting stuck.

Fire: Two pulls due to the stuck-it-tude. I've seen them try, I've tried on both toons (Barb has the HP & Defenses to do it and never die charmed or not), and something always gets stuck and you waste a ton of time if you do the whole thing and lose mobs.

Wood/Water: Tricky. I find it more efficient to do 1-3 group kills, sometimes to just APS mow through it. I've had venos pull 1-3 groups in both successfully and easily just fine, and seen a veno pull all of wood once you got to the split.

The problem with water is the damn chi siphon and OI, and wood just sucks due to the slow and mire. It's just usually smarter not to get chain debuffed/stunned/chi *****.

But yea, just as well as the other classes here for sure - I don't see people try for more than 3 groups at a time. I've never seen anyone seriously try to pull everything in water at one time (except for the lulz) - it's doable, but just ends up killing people. Wood/water mix pull is just kinda nuts, you're better off porting into the boss - you'd have greater survivability. I have insane friends and faction mates, but most of the time we'd prefer efficient.

Mostly its the added effect Nova does that makes Venos amazing. The mobs just standing there while Zhen is setup is what makes it pro. Even in the 33% situations, venos have the skills to survive holding the aggro till someone else takes it, and then can just go into throwing in DD with them.

If Roar aggro was worth a damn, or sunder-arma was faster, safer for non OP geared people, and more reliable in terms of aggro, barbs would be gods for the place.

imo the easiest is the water, more mobs = more chi = more sunder or more sparks or more invokes etc... also the water mobs doesn't have def, so u can kill em even with a r8, if you're aps, then water turns way more easier, it's just spark and pewpew mobs, u can even let the head hit you. and they doesn't purge always, it's rare.