Soloing WS Pav w/ Barb

Vindis - Dreamweaver

Ok, so my barb is 96 now (15k hp; he will get better gear eventually) and I know his job in all the other BHs, but I am a bit curious how you guys do WS.

Please keep this focused on a non aps barb soloing option please. Pretend an average geared barb for this sake (r8/tt99+5; m def ornas; etc)

I ask this because my server is borderline **** atm and sends the barb and cleric to duo fire for some odd reason (I dont know why; Fire is the easiest one and can be solo'd by an undergeared archer or any caster easily).

Anyways, I digress, I would like to know what pav would be easiest for barb and your experiences on other pavs (mainly earth/water/wood). Thanks.


Also side note, which pav do you think would be easiest for a pure bow archer to solo aside from fire/metal? I am interested in trying earth/water/wood on him some time when we can't find enough bm/sins (My faction/FL is caster heavy). I have basically no experience on wood/water and I have only leaped to earth once and duo'd it fine.

Beleni - Dreamweaver

Earth is probably the easiest one to solo on barbarians with axes. Hp really doesnt matter, you can have 9k or 50k- the mobs will still take 90 % of it.
just devour and DD each mob indervidually and if one of them goes suicidal:
Slam and run back slightly. - will push the mob outside of the explosive aoe range.
Could try water too but will be ganked more.

Vindis - Dreamweaver

Would it be practical to aoe them and try to invoke and get them to explode in that 15 second window?

I heard water mobs have less hp, but as I said I have no experience with the other pavs really.

Night$aber - Dreamweaver

Water mobs have no pdef but they spawn 3 times faster than earth pav mobs and can purge.Earth seems easiest pavilion for a melee class imo.
Edit: Long time no see nab :P.

augustfinknottle

Night$aber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Water mobs have no pdef but they spawn 3 times faster than earth pav mobs and can purge.Earth seems easiest pavilion for a melee class imo.
Edit: Long time no see nab :P.

All pavilions (at least all melee pavilions) can purge. It just happens more often on water because water has more mobs.

Personally, on my barb I prefer soloing water. Reason: bestial rage allows for constant sparks and sunders and armas and, if needed, invoke. Water mobs also explode for way less hp, so if they explode you won't even tick. If you have bp, your aoes will be enough to heal you so you'll be perfectly safe (until purged, if you do get purged).

Most times the barb is required to help clerics with fire pavilion, though, which is the easiest job ever. Just keep the head busy and you're fine.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Earth is easiest solo. Easy mobs, lots of room to kite.

Water would also be very doable for you given they spawn in groups and IF you hit hard enough with your aoes, you should be able to kill them before they explode or hopefully push them out of range. I say hopefully because it is a timing thing, not a works for sure trick.

Wood is kinda annoying because of the lack of room to kite - you may not kill them fast enough before they pile up either.

Duoing with cleric is a laugh, if they give you that choice take it.

And I've been purged in all lanes, repeatedly exploded upon in all lanes, and had the explode go off instantly the second the saying comes up in all lanes. It's random, wear a charm or just be prepared.

Really I'd take any full warsong offered to you on your barb and be happy defending whatever they ask. People on my server rarely, if ever take a barb to warsong past a buff alt.

augustfinknottle

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Really I'd take any full warsong offered to you on your barb and be happy defending whatever they ask. People on my server rarely, if ever take a barb to warsong past a buff alt.

Wow, people on your server are a bunch of jerks (or barbs on your server too incompetent to make themselves worth taking). :O

In Dreamweaver it's pretty rare to see a barbless warsong going on. It sucks to have to go out if someone gets exploded on or purged just to get buffs again. And sometimes going out glitches the whole thing and you miss a badge (have had that happen to someone in squad).

All that to save what? 1/2 a second on bosses? Actually, I think a barb makes the runs go faster and smoothier, since they run faster anyway, so gathering the mobs to aoe gets easier. Metal, earth and fire mobs can all be gathered so easily in just a few pulls (sure, bms/seekers can do that. They just take longer and risk death more often, unless they're ubergeared, which is not the case for 80% of the runs going on), it makes one wonder why not take a barb at all.

What Mae said is true. But earth mobs explode for something like 80% of max hp? Something like that. Water mobs explode for something like 20% (numbers might be - probably are - off, but that's just so you know they don't explode all with the same str). So you don't necessarily have to run from an exploding water mob, and mistakes are optentially less dangerous. Still, at lvl 95 your best call would most likely be earth. Invoke doesn't help you against the exploding mobs, it's a system fixed value of a % of your max hp.

Night$aber - Dreamweaver

Ah i see.I only got purged in water so far so i thought it's specific.Back on topic,if water mobs aren't killed fast enough they'll pile up and that ~20% hp explosion will multiply and possibly become worse than the earth one which you can kite or spark resist.Also with chances of getting purged being higher i'd say i would try earth pav as a barb.
You might say that water mobs have 0 pdef thus killing them is faster but as far as my warsong experience goes,on water you will usually find atleast 1 mob alive,while on earth you have some time between mobs.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

augustfinknottle wrote: »

Wow, people on your server are a bunch of jerks (or barbs on your server too incompetent to make themselves worth taking). :O

Mix of both of those and people wanting much faster runs. Barbs can't hold consistent aggro [if at all], they don't do as much damage as other AoE classes, and BMs/Sins/Seekers/Venos pull just as well, if not better if the team chooses to pull mobs instead of just jumping the bosses with the a ton of DD instead of clearing.

I've gone with a two Strength-ish R9 Barbs, and a couple of standard vit build ones. Poor kids barely had aggro, and the BMs, Psy, Archers, Wizards all did better single and aoe target DD. Even on my Barb with 42k hp, the Sunder-Arma Demon Crit combo is a joke compared to what other classes can contribute.

Until Barbs get aggro skills fixed they're buff alts in PvE 100+ (especially warsong) unless the team is way undergeared and/or underplayed. I've come in to help way undergeared squads with fire before, and I kid you not each time - the timer ran out before we finished getting to water. It took that long, and you had to wonder why they were there in the first place.

Sure, you can run with a barb - but they aren't wanted or needed whatsoever past their buffs with a talented squad, even average geared.

Really when you've run 40+ warsongs it gets old.
-As said above, many many classes can pull it well, so that's not a pro for the Barb.
-Barbs can't hold aggro - not a pro for the Barb.
-Barb damage is way less than most other AOE classes, which is a huge factor. If you add 60 seconds onto each of the 5 typical pulls before Wood/Water because you brought a barb instead of a DD, Thats 5 minutes; not a big deal. If you add 30-60 seconds on to the 1/2/3 groups in wood/water though...you're adding like 15 minutes; thats a big deal.
-Barb contributes virtually nothing to the boss mobs besides devour which a veno or cleric comes close to anyways. The actual difference between a barb devouring and utilizing other debuffs is more like "1/2 a second".

People being jerks or sucking is self explanatory. But in terms of experienced/talented squads, the above is why there is like 5 barbs parked outside in afk buff alt mode on any given night for those that don't just bring it into the instance and log it off there.

Personally, I want to get in, do my thing, push limits, get my badges/molds, and GTFO. I don't want to spend 2-4 hours in warsong, I don't even wanna spend 10 more minutes than I have to. Having a Barb is like having half a squad mate there. Sure, it may be jerky to say that, but its true - I even have a level 101 barb and I say that from pure experience on both sides of the fence.

Also the best puller for the whole zone is a good veno, hands down. If the veno refuses to defend or even help pull, boot em cause this place is made for them and they're cowards or suck.

Vindis - Dreamweaver

Ok cool thanks all for the tips. I thought I heard water had more mobs so I thought that might work with Bestial and chi gain and everything.

And yea, DW is really barb friendly. And the high end facs are pretty caster heavy at this point (Tempest at least has 10+ casters/archers that are going to want a barb for full WS on at any given time).


I talked to a vit build barb friend after posting this last night and he said he likes doing earth or water. He said water was the easiest for barb in his opinion. My barb won't be 100 for a while still (too lazy to play it more), but I will definitely tell other barbs to try earth. I know it is big as hell already so you can kinda infinite kite the head and barely hit it.

Carapace Greenstalker is wood pav mob? It has a lot of p def o.o. But zero metal defense. Is it doable by clerics?

I saw that Evil Trembling Golem, (I think the earth pav mob) has 0 wood defense. That would make sense for venos to do since they got pets to tank mob. I think I went and a veno did earth once a long time ago, but I can't remember (I've only done a handful of full warsongs recently, but I always used to defend back when no one farmed it). I think I got a better idea of the other pavs now. Right now, in my mind its kinda looking like:

Metal - Any caster (Wiz is ideal)
Fire - Any caster (Archer is ideal)
Wood - Any aps or Cleric +1 (BM or Sin is ideal?)
Water - Barb/Seeker or Aps
Earth - Any aps or Veno or Barb (Veno is ideal?)

Thanks for helping me get info/feedback to correct the retardation that is DW. Also this way people won't just WC for 1 specific squad type and be more accepting of barbs and multiple casters etc. And I know what to look for when I form it myself.



Also, Hi Deathyfishyyy

augustfinknottle

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I've come in to help way undergeared squads with fire before, and I kid you not each time - the timer ran out before we finished getting to water. It took that long, and you had to wonder why they were there in the first place.

Jesus! I've never, ever had that happen on any squad I've ran with. And I've been to quite some warsongs myself too, and some had clerics with 4k hp and sins with just under 6k. Terrible thing to see there are people wasting 4 hours on a full warsong.

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sure, you can run with a barb - but they aren't wanted or needed whatsoever past their buffs with a talented squad, even average geared.

I think it's safe to say that no class is NEEDED for warsong, bar cleric (even then, a mystic might be able to take his job, depending on the squad and having a psy to purify). The whole point of saving time goes to waste when you just NEED some class and stays on world chat for 10/20 minutes looking for someone specific. Getting a seeker might be hard, or a wiz, or a psy, or an archer. So filling that spot with a barb is just fine and probably quicker. Refusing to take a barb takes longer, I believe, because the recruiting also takes longer.

Every squad will ask for BMs and sins not because they're absolutely needed, but because they're nice to have and abundant, so it'll take like what? 2 teles to get those? But getting a veno? At least in Dreamweaver, good luck with that.

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

People being jerks or sucking is self explanatory. But in terms of experienced/talented squads, the above is why there is like 5 barbs parked outside in afk buff alt mode on any given night for those that don't just bring it into the instance and log it off there.

Granted, if you're making a fixed squad to run it over and over, then, by all means, a barb might not be the best option. If you're recruiting at that time, though, taking a barb won't hurt and won't make it longer.

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Also the best puller for the whole zone is a good veno, hands down. If the veno refuses to defend or even help pull, boot em cause this place is made for them and they're cowards or suck.

I still think a good barb pulls better than a good veno there, but we can just disagree here. It's much more a matter of opinion than actually a fact. And on lesser than optimal squads (the kind that takes lvl 95 people in), a barb would definitely be a better option than a veno.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ok cool thanks all for the tips. I thought I heard water had more mobs so I thought that might work with Bestial and chi gain and everything.

And yea, DW is really barb friendly. And the high end facs are pretty caster heavy at this point (Tempest at least has 10+ casters/archers that are going to want a barb for full WS on at any given time).

My main reason for posting this and getting info/feedback is to correct the retardation that is DW and r9 clerics and barbs duoing the easiest pav. Also this way people won't just WC for 1 specific squad type and be more accepting of barbs and multiple casters etc.

Really, if you play well and have appropriate gear all the paths are doable. If you're a lazy player who doesn't like to do much and are still wearing TT80/TT90 mix you're gonna have a hard time. And that goes for all the classes.

You have your mob paths right, however Id assume pwdatabase is wrong. Wood is doable by clerics but rough due to the lack of space.

I just don't get why they'd want a live barb...but Im guessing good venos, seekers, BMs, and sins are hard to come by on your server?

Really the barb/cleric combo Id assume is because they are the weakest DDs of the group, theres 5 pavs, and 6 toons. Makes logical sense to group the two weaker DDs together. I'm used to telling the cleric to go afk, choose where they want to help, float, or help the person with the sac head.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

augustfinknottle wrote: »

Jesus! I've never, ever had that happen on any squad I've ran with. And I've been to quite some warsongs myself too, and some had clerics with 4k hp and sins with just under 6k. Terrible thing to see there are people wasting 4 hours on a full warsong.

Just very undergeared people, thats all - both times they weren't bad players, just not enough DD. I didn't really run with them, I got asked to come in and help late in the instance. I have a smattering of friends of all gear levels (although Id say they're all good to excellent players).

augustfinknottle wrote: »

I think it's safe to say that no class is NEEDED for warsong, bar cleric (even then, a mystic might be able to take his job, depending on the squad and having a psy to purify). The whole point of saving time goes to waste when you just NEED some class and stays on world chat for 10/20 minutes looking for someone specific. Getting a seeker might be hard, or a wiz, or a psy, or an archer. So filling that spot with a barb is just fine and probably quicker. Refusing to take a barb takes longer, I believe, because the recruiting also takes longer.

Every squad will ask for BMs and sins not because they're absolutely needed, but because they're nice to have and abundant, so it'll take like what? 2 teles to get those? But getting a veno? At least in Dreamweaver, good luck with that.

Granted, if you're making a fixed squad to run it over and over, then, by all means, a barb might not be the best option. If you're recruiting at that time, though, taking a barb won't hurt and won't make it longer.

I still think a good barb pulls better than a good veno there, but we can just disagree here. It's much more a matter of opinion than actually a fact. And on lesser than optimal squads (the kind that takes lvl 95 people in), a barb would definitely be a better option than a veno.

I've tried with just mystic. Without cleric buffs it suxxxxxx bad. Honestly BB really helps avoid charm ticks and deaths for the low HP people on AOEs.

Dunno there always seems to be an abundance of people wanting to run WC warsongs on HT, I only see the people known to run fail squads have to look forever for slots, or on odd nights - and even then seemingly only about 20 mins to fill the squads. Usually if you say you have a cleric the squad fills really fast with a smattering of whatever you want.

If it really was a 15-20 minute wait to fill a WC squad and you had 1 slot left and a Barb volunteered, sure. But I'm talking preference and need - which if I read correctly were agreeing on.

Believe me its fact with the good veno (good being operative word) - Fox form, pull, Nova the pull - plenty of time for everyone to setup and the veno is just fine due to all the immune skills and etc. Having pulled myself on both toons, had others pull it, and had venos pull it - I'll let a good veno pull anytime. And I love pulling...they're just that much better at it in warsong.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'll let a good veno pull anytime. And I love pulling...they're just that much better at it in warsong.

Do the venos pull the whole pavillion or just 1/4, 1/3 or 1/2 way?

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

Do the venos pull the whole pavillion or just 1/4, 1/3 or 1/2 way?

Metal: Whole thing.

Earth: I've had a few succeed repeatedly on the whole thing but tend to do it in 2 sections due to mobs getting stuck.

Fire: Two pulls due to the stuck-it-tude. I've seen them try, I've tried on both toons (Barb has the HP & Defenses to do it and never die charmed or not), and something always gets stuck and you waste a ton of time if you do the whole thing and lose mobs.

Wood/Water: Tricky. I find it more efficient to do 1-3 group kills, sometimes to just APS mow through it. I've had venos pull 1-3 groups in both successfully and easily just fine, and seen a veno pull all of wood once you got to the split.

The problem with water is the damn chi siphon and OI, and wood just sucks due to the slow and mire. It's just usually smarter not to get chain debuffed/stunned/chi *****.

But yea, just as well as the other classes here for sure - I don't see people try for more than 3 groups at a time. I've never seen anyone seriously try to pull everything in water at one time (except for the lulz) - it's doable, but just ends up killing people. Wood/water mix pull is just kinda nuts, you're better off porting into the boss - you'd have greater survivability. I have insane friends and faction mates, but most of the time we'd prefer efficient.

Mostly its the added effect Nova does that makes Venos amazing. The mobs just standing there while Zhen is setup is what makes it pro. Even in the 33% situations, venos have the skills to survive holding the aggro till someone else takes it, and then can just go into throwing in DD with them.

If Roar aggro was worth a damn, or sunder-arma was faster, safer for non OP geared people, and more reliable in terms of aggro, barbs would be gods for the place.

_Mg_Zr - Heavens Tear

From my own personal experience if your having a bit of trouble with a path, usually you can call the cleric to give you a bit of help but you need to be careful doing this incase the person the cleric was helping needs it more than you do.
Oh and um i have never been refused a run on my barb but maybe thats because of the way i lure or because te squad wants sage buffs (yeah probably got something to do with the sage buffs lol) but squads that know i have a bm i think they would prefer i took it.

BloodTyrant - Raging Tide

imo the easiest is the water, more mobs = more chi = more sunder or more sparks or more invokes etc... also the water mobs doesn't have def, so u can kill em even with a r8, if you're aps, then water turns way more easier, it's just spark and pewpew mobs, u can even let the head hit you. and they doesn't purge always, it's rare.

WnbTank - Archosaur

Barbs are pretty much just buffers in WS, granted world chat squads tend to want one. My sin can tank all but the incarnation in WS and for that BM is actually better for tanking it than barb due BP heals/spark heals & immunities aps give. Not to mention how barb cant hold aggro worth, well, much of anything. I mostly run with 2 different set squads, for other I never bring my barb in, for other I bring it for incarnation as BM isnt comfy bout tanking the thing. Only gotta +10 my armors and I can see if I feel comfy bout tanking incarnation on sin.

Ps. OP got archer, why not just use it for pavilions and bring barb for rest of it? Truth being told, veno pulls better than a barb does.