Level Requirement for Frost?

FuzzyWuzz wrote: »

Just that is seems to Fuzzy others seem to want to alter an aspect of game-play that may not effect them. Not saying that good or bad, but just saying.

but it does effect us.

lvl requirements to plvling instances will force ponies to learn how to play there toons again.

sense everypony just sells buys or alt fcs any more its rare if possible to find squads for BH before BH69.

the economy would calm down a little once ponies can't sell FC to lowbies any more. sure they'll probably still sell to the lvl range but thats a lot less ponies then it is now.

i don't see how you can even think it doesn't effect anypony 90+ in some way shape or form.

SinfuINature - Harshlands wrote: »

i know... change the hyper multiplier to X50 after lvl 101 so we can catch the dragon glitchers b:victory

..........wat?

Ok, so logically thinking, from reading the forums and various posts/threads over the past year, the common thought is there are very few new players in this game. Sure there are some, but for the most part, I would say for every 9 or 10 veteran players, there might be 1 new player and that I think os being generous. Veteran players, those high level players; endgame players; those that know their main inside and out. Those that took 2 to 4 years to get 100+

Most new players aren't interested in being powerlevelled. It's a new MMO to them. It tends to take 50+ levels for most new players to get comfortable with the people they play with, the factions they join, the basic mechanics of the game, quests, etc. Of the new players, maybe 1 in 10 want ASAP powerlevelling. Also most newer players might fail a time or two on a new FB or BH to them. They are not used to it.

So where am I going with this....its already been said in this thread no 100+ level player is going to want to get 100+ again the hard way. They want the fast track. I would bet most of the failed players are actually alts of veterans. They may know the dungeons and the mechanics of the game, but not the ins and outs of the alt they didn't want to level the old fashioned way.

The best option is also the simplest. Revert frost to it's original farming instance state and disallow the use of hypers inside just like the CN version .

AliceAdams - Lost City wrote: »

I didn't even really understand what frost was until I was around 70ish. Didn't actually start frosting til 86.

If I plan to start an alt, I don't want to frost it. I want to learn how to play that character.

_Ernesto_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

u r wrong fuzzy, i hate to power lvl, i do even hate to do frost, maybe because even on my bh squad some times i have more hp than the barb and im pure strength, or im forced to be the puller on fc b:surrender the solution that Olbaze posted seems fine, but not enough, we need that the tele stone block any ppl under lvl 85, and some tweaks, like removing oracles, and increasing the exp rate just a bit on open map maybe some ppl is gona quit, but some other is gonna find the game a bit more exiting and easier to play

I will have to disagree with both of you here b:pleased. I lvl my alts, and i have no idea how to play my alts b:victory. Reasons for lvling alts is not so i can do endless bh runs, i have enough play time doing my bh runs on 1 character, i don't want to repeat this for 6~12 alts i have. I will never be able to level any of the alts to try out instances i want to try them out on.

When i am dq farming, i let the alt fly above me, and they get 1~5 lvls in 1~3 hours of dq farming, that is without hypers. If i get my lvl 90 alts in vos, i use hpyers for it, that alt will be 100 pretty soon, will the next suggestion be to nerf those mobs exp because it is so easy to kill them? I went from 101~102 on those mobs by spending 30seconds to 60 seconds of hyper activation every day. If i ran them out for an hour, i could have gained more exp. But i only pulled 10 times, activated hyper 10 times.

People are complaining about FCC, which is fine, but phoenix valley is equally liable. Most people don't bother to do it, but having a seeker in that lvl range that can solo it, helps quite a lot in lvling fast.

Most people on the forums are against power lvling, which is fine, but inside the game, if you world chat, selling fcc, you will hardly ever get a pm saying "why are you selling fcc to noobs, scammer b:cry". I detest fcc simply because it is a repetitive instance that is on easy mode for me to solo, takes 15~20 minutes to get to the exp room, and another 5~10 minutes after for the full run. I lvl my alts with my friends fairly quickly.

If people really want to learn their class, why not just make the fcc bosses harder. Give them bramble. That will effectively put an end to fcc spam selling in 10~15 minutes. People will have to clear full instance to be able to do it, and venos, casters will be needed, simple aps will not work anymore.

As other people have stated, i hate power lvlers to, but from my experience i adapted. For the past 10 or so months, i have yet to run a random world chat squad. We might have 1~2 random people in squads at times, but we still have to come across a fcc baby that doesn't know how to play his/her class. The result of the above change is, that our group of friends now knows how we play. So our timing on buffs, debuffs, pulls is very well co-ordinated without needing to explain anything to anyone. This results in us trying out new instances, trying out trophy modes in all instances for fun. I would never try a trophy mode seat, aba, eden, lunar with a random world chat squad. But i am happy to go with friends.

By the same token i never go to world chat squads for full delta. People may know how to play their class, the issue is can they world with 5 other people for the next 2~3 hours? People also fail to understand, the server has OP people, OP people with knowledge, average geared to good gear people with knowledge, very small percentage of bad geared people with knowledge about things. All these people will flock together, and you will hardly hear about them in world chat. Everyone has heard the names of the top people on their server/class, how often do you see those people or their faction members starting things in world chat?

Power lvling affects those who wish to include people who have power lvled and don't know how to play their class. For me, power lvling is not an issue. There are already numerous quests people can do to lvl 40~60 quickly without bh. There is a npc that will give you free daily, mp and hp charm until you are lvl 40. The game is that easy now.

If you are truly against power lvling, on your faction forums (don't post on pwi forums please, it is against the rules), keep a list of power levelers and don't include them in runs again. Block them in game, or keep a text file. Over time either you will have awesome squads all the time, or you will find no one to play with. If you find yourself in the latter category, it is not the fault of power levelers.

People tend to approach these issues in a reactive perspective. Nobody is really defining the problem well, drilling down on the root of the issue, nor really what they want to accomplish.

People are also trying to address symptoms, not causes of the issue. High level noobs is a symptom, not a cause. Lack of lower level players doing things is a symptom, not a cause. The're an old saying: Is the problem the blood, the cut it came from? And how do you prevent further cuts?

On the quick and narrow:

Problem: Lower levels are able to obtain high amounts of experience while grouping with higher levels without any risk or effort.

Components of the problem: Low level toons, High level toons, Hyper Stones, Frost Heads, Experience Modifiers, game content perception.

Causes:
-Low level toons want more powerful and enjoyable content, currently perceived to be at higher levels.
-High level toons need money.
-High level toons want buffers.
-High level toons want to skip content they have already done on their alts.
-Hyper Stones cause inflated amounts of exp to be gained.
-Frost heads are soloable by low level toons or squads.
-Experience modifiers when grouped with high level toons do not matter when combined with hypers.


And thats just at a glance. Address each cause with your solutions as it relates to the problem, with consideration to each component.

Looking at this, here are some ideas:

1. Level restrict FF to 70+ or 80+.
2. Eliminate exp gained for toons 15-20 levels below the highest member of the party. Or modify XP rewards on monsters 5-10 levels above you to 0.
3. Make heads worth 0 exp for toons lower than 70 or 80. (Doubt this is possible)
4. Eliminate Hypers for levels under 80 (Doubt this will happen)
5. Eliminate Hypers completely (Don't do this, it has other effects on the game)
6. Create more content, or change up the content that is pre 70 or pre 80 to be more enjoyable, and less grinding (or day to day dailies) or quickly going through quests to level. Give a good reason to be online and active. Coin, XP, Items that are considered within reach and obtainable. TT is not a good example of that - too much time and risk involved for too little of reward.
7. Create more content for 100+ (Really, all levels) that gives comparable coin for time invested (2-5m an hour is about what FF plvls gain at 100). Make it challenging and fun to engage the player's interest.
8. Create more TW and PK style environments for lower level characters ONLY. Many players plvl to get into TW.
9. Create more comparable style exp instances for all levels, but particularly pre-100 so the game is not as dependent on plvling. In other words, if you could run an instance with people similar to your level, that gains the same amount of exp as a Frost plvl run - outside of the lazy, more people would do it. Many 80+ people will go to plvling because they are tired of doing frost over and over again.
10. Increase either exp or monetary rewards of other Daily Quests like BH so they are not worth skipping for Frost runs.

It is far too late, the game is plagued with bad players...

Bms would refuse to use skills that actually keeps others alive
Wizards would still QQ about being "weak"
Archers will still autohit and fail
Clerics would still not heal right and manage MP
Assassins would still auto hit and fail
Psys would still waste their MP over SOV
Seekers would still have no idea how to time their skills / procs correctly
Mystics would still not know how to heal properly and not use salvation in squads
Barbs would still use suicidal skills and end up dieing
Venoes would still use crappy DOT spells that does no damage even if they are pure magic with spells at level 10 while relying on hercules.

Too late...

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

8. Create more TW and PK style environments for lower level characters ONLY. Many players plvl to get into TW.

If there was lvl restricted pk style in 5~15 lvl ranges, i would reroll each class and try it out. A very good way to learn your class, while having fun. Most people will have average gear, legendary gear, self crafted gear, good drops, but nothing really OP. Some of us will +10 their gear, it is inevitable.

At present outside of BH, divine and some quests (where grinding starts from kill 5~10 to kill 100~140), there isn't much fun for lower lvls. Around lvl 80's things get more fun, but still nothing major to keep the attraction there. There should be some money making instance, other than the cube for lvl ranges. I had a rough time with gear when i was lvling, because i was too poor to buy molds.

Have a random item, that gives a minor chance to give bound +1, +2 and +3 star for lower lvls. Just how we get 10 tisha and tienkang after goshiki. This way people could start to see the benefit of refining gear a bit.

I lack focus b:chuckle.

mm2000 wrote: »

It is far too late, the game is plagued with bad players...

Bms would refuse to use skills that actually keeps others alive
Wizards would still QQ about being "weak"
Archers will still autohit and fail
Clerics would still not heal right and manage MP
Assassins would still auto hit and fail
Psys would still waste their MP over SOV
Seekers would still have no idea how to time their skills / procs correctly
Mystics would still not know how to heal properly and not use salvation in squads
Barbs would still use suicidal skills and end up dieing
Venoes would still use crappy DOT spells that does no damage even if they are pure magic with spells at level 10 while relying on hercules.

Too late...

U mean those seekers that keep using the shatters on duels and pk? or keep an instance on and never make it proceed? b:laugh

all the pwi staff have to do is make frost what it use to be, basicaly a tt run there is no need to be inthere if under lvl 80!

Yeah i agree with the lvl req. FF has caused the map/questing/other areas of exp to become obsolete and a ghost town.

Wickedbrew - Raging Tide wrote: »

Maybe I am an exception to the rule then. While I have done FC heads a few times on all my characters, it tends to be rare, and pretty boring. Also I personally don't care if someone is a higher level than I am. I did the FC heads because I wanted a certain spell upgrade, or a better weapon/armor. Endgame is too much of an end. The end, finished, nothing else to do. None of my characters are higher than level 86, and I make it a point to do my normal quests, kick back, enjoy the game, meet new people, enjoy questing with friends, help people lower than me with FB/BH where I can, etc.

I've been on a few BH69/79 runs where a high level healer, tank, or DD, does something odd like a barb that runs into a group of mobs and drags them back. I say please pull one at a time until there are only a couple left, or a psy over damages everyone and dies over and over again, or a cleric that used BB at Pole and Nob. Most common response is, "I have been playing this game for years. I know how to play."

n... nothing in your reply goes with what i said at all. you seem to be implying i said i hear that from everypony. i said you would be surprised how many times i hear that. what rule are you talking about? why are you explaining you play style to me? did i attack it? if you think i did im sorry. what that barb is doing is called pulling for zhen. meaning he grabs a large group, pulls them back to where your healer has there aoe healing going and you aoe the **** out of the group killing them pretty much all at once. why anypony would pull just one at a time like that? it wastes time. phys are gonna get agro unless there is a sin in the party with the max APS there lvl can have or a really really good barb.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

I wouldnt solve the problem of powerleveling by making powerleveling harder, more expensive or impossible but by making more quests that must be done like culti. And make them so that they must be done alone or with other people of similar level and that they are designed to teach skills.

Powerleveling is good for people who have played other chars trough all of the game already imo.

Most of the p.level noobs are in facts alts. Most new players don't have the coin to p.level to 100 in 2 weeks and aren't willing to spend a ton of money on a new game. That's the big elephant in the room that nobody wants to admit whenever this topic comes up and people defend p.level their alts. And there is always on person who is skilled and naturally gets the hang of it that acts like because they are the exception to the rule, that we all should just ignore the results it has had on genuinely new players, gameplay, the economy, squad dynamics, and class diversity.