what pets are needed for higher levels?

1. Water pets are USELESS. They truly have no use.
2. Glacial Walker has the highest defense in-game physical defense(Below Legendary pets which cost $$) and is mainly used if you cannot afford a Hercules($$). He's the only real pet you need for tanking. Most "Magic" mobs have a melee attack 80% of the time they use since the antelope and all other in-game pets are melee hitters. No need for the Antelope honestly even tho he has the highest magic defense, in return he's Physical defense is lower costing it more damage taken at melee point.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Lastly - strongly recommend you do the pet-bag extension quests; or buy some cages. More pets is gooood. (You don't seem to have an airpet, for example - and there's a fair number of air quests)

THIS. While I'll agree with the general consensus that a water pet is not strictly necessary, and I would certainly advice you not to bother leveling one, keeping a pet slot for it is on the other hand very convenient, as you don't want to be switching out one of your other pets everytime you are faced with activities on a water environment. 5 pet slots is what i consider to be the bare minimum for a venomancer, which could break down as 2 for land pets, 1 for an air pet, 1 for a water pet and 1 for a mount. If you like experimenting with pets an extra slot does become necessary. Now, 5 pet slots you can obtain by doing the collecting quests available at the pet manager NPC, which although it involves somewhat long and monotonous grinding sessions its certainly recommendable, and should provide some small profit even with nerfed DQ prices. You seem to be at the level range for fungus, the item you'll need to collect for the 5th pet slot, which could be some trouble as you need to do these quests in order, but currently available 2x drops might make it worthwhile for you to still farm fruit. If you're not too fond of grinding and have some resources available buying a pet cage from the boutique is your next best option, keep in mind once you do this the collecting quests will no longer be available, although with the current sale you can get them at half price.

On the subject of a second pet, I also agree with an attack pet being the better choice. The Kowlin, while a solid pet with decent dps, may not be the better choice for you in this role however. The problem is an attack pet should ideally have a better damage output than your tanking pet, as otherwise it will be more convenient for you to use your tanker (which does have the advantage of being more ressilient) in this role. The Kowlin is ideal to pair with tankers such as the armored bear, but seeing as you're using a Glacial Walker this means very limited choices in regards to attack pets. This is because the Walker already is one of the highest dps outputs available itself. Choice number 1 would be the level 2 Varicose Scorpion, with the best damage stats amongst commonly available pets, keep in mind this is a somewhat frail pet although you can mostly overcome this by skilling with Tough or Threaten, which should do for the pet to perform in its attack role. Choice number 2 would be the Dark Wanderer, which solves the frailty issue but does require some more extensive skilling. This is because once you factor in Bash (or your Walker's native Icicle) the Walker comes slightly on top because of its higher base damage figure (the Wanderer depends on a faster attack rate to outdamage the Walker without use of skills). This means that used in the role of an attack pet that will be paired with a Walker, the Wanderer should ideally be skilled with at least one more damage skill to overcome the difference. The best configuration for the Walker adds bash to its skill set, which would make this 3 damage skills for the Wanderer, however i rarely recommend going over two for practicality reasons (unless you are going for a dps pet, in which case the Scorp is a better choice) and using the Wanderer for the attack role would basically come down to giving it a more appropiate skill set (Howl/Threaten for a multi-role debuffer). I also recommend Ream for the second attack skill because it is easier to manage than the elemental Bashes, although this does result in somewhat negiligible damage reduction.

Now, I realize that the effort of leveling and skilling pets is a considerable one, but I wanted to provide you with the best choices. In my opinion the the added advantages properly skilled pets provide does offset their cost even if eventually you'll be going for a herc. You should remember that in order to be effective, skilling requires maxing to your level range, which may also be a considerable cost in itself, although any pet's default damage skill should at least always be kept up to level regardless of other considerations. Given this, you may want to still acquire the Kowlin but, acknowledging its limitations, use it more for a lurer/debuffer role for which it is already ideally skilled, even if you may eventually want to replace Pierce for Threaten if keeping this pet for the long haul. The Kowlin can work better in some squad scenarios as a better attack skill set and smaller model may make it more convenient. Another choice, and perhaps the easier one, is to just keep your Walker as a multi-role and your main pet. As I've said earlier you may want to add Bash to its skill set (otherwise don't touch it, it is ideal for a Tanker) max it and invest in leveling some of it's skills. Given the added difficulties the currently leveling rate place on keeping pets up to level, just 1 main (and whatever you can grab close to your level as backup) is certainly enough.

One more note, ranged pets I don't consider necessary. While often recommended as pets not made obsolete by herc, they have very limited applications. Luring is now more often a job for melee classes and most specialized jobs (69, Wurlord) can be easily handled by more versatile fast pets. Also you can use Tame Beast, which should do for FCC Harpies although current squad tactics make this extremely rare. As for ranged tanking this is a very specailized use which for the overwhelming majority of venos is unlikely to be much of an advantage, especially when considering the costs of leveling/skilling an Eldergoth Marksman, the only pet that can adequately handle such jobs. Given the availability of high level Cactopods I would suggest not bothering with ranged pets before endgame, at which point you should be able to adequately gauge whether ranged pets are necessary for yourself.

1st post in the Veno forums after a long break, sorry for the wall of text.

Thanks Vitenka.

One precission on something I did miss on my first post. When using Flesh Ream as a second damage skill on a PvE pet, it is very important not to use it on boss fights with a Barb tanking. This is because most Barbs rely on skills rather than sustained damage output for keeping aggro and Ream may overwrite their own bleed. This is one of the reasons the elemental bashes are generally considered better for PvE purposes, although not as important a consideration in the current age of APS tankers.

DISCLAIMER; Please disregard this comment, it has now been shown to me that bleed effects stack and do not overwrite each other, meaning Ream will not impede a Barb's ability to hold aggro. I apologize for any incovenience.

The difference in damage output between the Walker and the Wanderer comes to around 200 HP in terms of dps (this is for unskilled lvl100) which could be considered significant for pets with the same attack rate, but that you're unlikely to notice much in terms of everyday use especially since, as I've mentioned earlier, once you factor in Bash the Walker does make up for it given its higher base attack stat. You're correct in deducing it may not amount to much of a difference. The Scorpion should have much more of an advantage in this regard, as it shares the same attack rate as the Walker, but the difference doesn't amount to much more than around 100hp in terms of base stats (for lvl100) so its certainly not a difference that will allow you to "cut" through mobs noticeably faster. The basic problem here is the Walker already stats one of the best damage outputs available and the only pets that can significantly outclass it are the Blazing Phoenix (a Cash Shop air pet with a price tag around 80mil that cannot be used inside most PvE instances) and the Derjan Hatchling (a rare lvl101 spawn which you must tame yourself).

While there are no commonly available pets wich could afford you to get as much of an advantage, there are a few tricks to work around this limitation. The most obvious is to skill one of the pets with slightly higher dps, as compared to the Walker, with the pet skill Claw, which will enhance their base attack stat by 30%. This is a rare and very difficult to obtain pet skill scroll, however, available only through the underwater Dragon Temple event and that usually sells for around 30mil on most servers. There's talk of an improved version that can be obtained through high level faction bases, but comes at a price tag of 36mil and requires a considerable amount of contribution points to obtain. Given the expense of this skill, I don't recommend it as a practical option until you've gained a much deeper understanding of both the Veno class and its pet system, as you may very well end up regretting such a heavy investment later on. Another work around is DPS skilling.

The basic idea behind dps skilling is to take a pet with an already high base attack figure and to skill it with Bash and three elemental attacks (some Venos make it two elemental "Bashes" and add Claw to the mix) giving 4 200% damage attacks within any given 8 second cycle (remember that this does come at the expense of some of the pet's regular auto-attacks). This is a good way to boost dps but is more of a specialized use reserved for high level venos doing regular work on bosses with a nominal level indicated by a question mark [?] (generally understood as lvl150, although most of these bosses are significantly weaker than a true lvl150 boss would be). Against these, pet attacks are significantly stronger because they don't receive the damage reduction most other attacks will go through, TT bosses being the best known example. The downside is this method of skilling is nightmarish to manage as you have to manually hit each of three skills within any given 8 second cycle, making it unpractical to employ this advantage in most open world scenarios. The second downside is most pets cannot long survive the AoE of the most powerful of these bosses (eg Harpy Wraith) or that they would require spam healing to do so (limiting the Veno itself which, at endgame levels, far exceeds the pet's potential in terms of dps) which, again, is the reason why this is mostly a specialized and somewhat limited method.

Now, another way around this problem would be to get a 2nd Walker (or perhaps a Magmite) as an attack pet. This way you could skill one for attack/debuffing and keep the other's skill set customed for tanking jobs. It seems a rather complicated solution but is the 1 way you can ensure your attack pet will perform on the same level as your tanker. My advice is keep things simple, you already own what is usually considered the best tank in stat terms amongst commonly obtainable pets, precisely because of its high damage output, and can opt to go for a pet with slightly better damage stats for the attack role (the slight difference does add up in long boss fights, although it is unlikely that you'll notice much) or simply forget about trying to get a better performer for this role until endgame, and get whatever catches your fancy as a backup.

Finally, as for the Kowlin, the skill set it comes with is pretty good, but it basically boils down to it being a more eye catching model than most pets and the few advantages it does get from its speed. The Kowlin remains amongst the top ten best pets in terms of damage output, but is not outstanding in terms of perfomance when compared to the handful of pets considered top tier, and is certainly not the pet for a minmaxer. Its advantages are mostly small things like a sleek design (which does allow for better awareness in terms of not having a grey or yellow blob blocking a good chunk of your screen) a very visible attack animation (which does allow for better pulling when using visual cues) and an overall more responsive feel as its speed allows it to more quickly carry an attack. It is the fastest pet available in game (which was once considered a minor advantage in PvP servers) and the best for speed based luring, but if small details don't appeal to you it is unlikely to be a right fit. It will certainly feel squishy and as gimped damage when compared to a Walker and you can easily obtain its skill set for it if you want.

If the dino has strong/protect it can be a pretty good tank but I don't know if it's really worth the money.

I went for Bless (found it on a good price) on mine so that it has more survivability, not as much as a herc but still quite better than before, and currently looking for Claw so that I can keep two slots for Pierce and Bash (or Howl, not sure yet)

i personally have an armored bear as my main pet he works well! Also the kowlin is very useful for luring and the like ^_^
but of course none of these can replace the herc and pheonix! though they are very expensive b:cry

Well, fleshream does generate a big chunk of aggro.
So does bash though; slightly surprised you saw a major difference, but as I've not played around with bleed too much on [?] bosses I'm happy to believe you.

Personally, I find "If you take aggro, you're gonna keep it" to be a pretty good disincentive to people failing to hold back p[roperly. I'm happier when there's a real tank; but all too often there's none available (or a tank, but no good healing available) so being able to tank sometimes is great to let you actually get started. (Hopefully the missing part will turn up before you get to a boss that you can't tank.)

I agree there was a PVP problem with the nix especially. But PVE; yeah, pets need a revamp. No argument there from me there.

The coin-sink faction-base skills are a shot in that direction; at least.

@OP : Like said before, I there is no real use for water pets. Simply tame something nearby when you need or do with air pet.

In petbag, always make sure to have 2 land pets up to lvl or close. Most have a rockman for traditional role of preventing mobs to hit them. Next to that, you can put a damage focus pet, lurer, ranged pet or debuffer. A 2nd pet will alow some more variety and gives you a quick help if your other pet dies.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Pets are needed at endgame? Aps has about ruined my tolerance for tanking bosses with pets. I don't mean recently ruined, I mean level 60ish 3 years ago ruined. I might pull out my pet for grinding mobs but its not to tank, its just to grab a mob for a second so I can get one more attack in before it reaches me and thats long enough to kill it. I also pull out pets as fire bait for phoenix in Nirvana.

So many venos nowadays complain about how a PvE pet is a waste. Still LF a dino as a combo dps pet and tank but I'm hearing that doesn't work well either.

Try out a pet with howl, pierce, pounce, slow and/or frighten. A pet as pure tanker is pretty much outdone besides some solo exceptions maybe. But there are more ways to use pets. I love a fast pet with the above skills as veno lacks those kind of skills in their own arsenal.

And off all ppl, I expect you to understand the value of having pierce for a physical debuff for till you casted amp, swapped back human and casted ironwood b:avoid

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And... I really don't see how a pet can ever be a waste. It's, like, a good 40% of your total damage output.

I agree with you. Even if pets undeniably need an update, they are not worthless. There are more uses for pets then just the old tank role on lvl? bosses. They still add damage and give acces to a bunch off skills you can cast at same time with own skills. There are only a few places where pets are not worth summoning. I suspect venos that claim pets are worthless simply don't have anything close to their lvl b:chuckle

The positive part off this all, imo, is that it brings back more variety in pets then "herc or rock or gtfo".

totalartfreak wrote: »

Also the kowlin is very useful for luring and the like ^_^

Marksman for luring b:cool I had to find another use for my Kowlin though, cause it's to cool to simply retire. With it's speed, it has become a great debuff pet in my bag b:laugh

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

You say APS has ruined pets...and yet pets probably still do more DPS than most R8 level casters out there. Someone give me a number, how hard do endgame pets typically hit on bosses?

I'll have to go get some exact numbers, but you're looking at the 1k-3k range for a level100 herc, punching bosses.
Depends on the boss, of course; as well as what debuffs are active. But that kind of range; which isn't hugely below my expected damage (maybe 3-5k per spell) on a [?] mob.

Edit:
On non [?] mobs we're looking at much more casting damage - and not a great deal more herc punch damage (just whatever the boss stats gives). Pets are definitely outclassed there.

Reflect damage adds a big chunk too though, I'll have to get some real numbers. Probably on TT bosses, as they're easy [?] bosses to find.

I think the highest hit I've seen my 100 herc do was in the 8k range, with natural synergy, amp and armor break active (could go higher with additional debuffs, naturally.)

My level 100 scorpion with maxed bash, sandblow, howl and pierce is mostly able to keep aggro off me (level 101 HA/AA veno with +6 Morai 95 magic sword) on the level 59 Wandering Artist quest string final boss (forget the name... Mind something) in the base, I imagine it could keep aggro from most R8 casters on [?] bosses.

Yes I meant lv 150 bosses. First of all, I might have been too hasty in claiming veno pets out DPS R8 casters...I guess that would also depend on refines and chi usage, but pets hit faster than casters and do not suffer damage penalty just the same.

Second, HF does stack with pdef debuff, and I don't know who told you Lucky Scarab resets aggro but it doesn't. If this is Nirvana we're talking about, the boss resets aggro when it seals.

Is there a better way to level pets other than Cube? Straight grinding is not very rewarding when all I want is some of the new pets up to my level for fun, and also to see is how the stats on them will look at high levels, but Cube grind is getting boring too.

Can you tell me what bosses they are talking about? Are they even talking about bosses or mobs? Most bosses are not even stunnable anyway.

There are stunnable bosses in AEU, of which I am very certain using stuns do not reset aggro.

Hmmm.

Well, lucky (along with all other stuns, whether the stun lands or not) does seem to generate a bucketload of aggro. But resetting aggro? Never seen that. I won't say outright "These people are all wrong", but right now, it sure seems that way.

Ok, my actions: Record my and my pet damage. That's easy enough - did a faction-mates culti last night. Pet damage on Chin in 1-1 was 2374 (or more when debuffs are applied)
my damage was in the 3k-4k range - I admit I'm not the highest geared veno in the world; so I can certainly believe that a bit more damage would let me steal from my pet. I already trivially can against, say, Stygean the archer boss in 79 where I don't have the [?] damage reduction and the herc doesn't have the reflect.

Level 85-90 barbs and BMs were competing with the herc for aggro; but some of that was the "I pull aggro immediately" barb skills. The herc was easily retaking after a punch or two (and the barb and BM were brambled too; so that should have been roughly even.)

A higher level Barb/BM can certainly hold aggro off the herc; but that's still not a bad chunk of damage; and a dedicated DD pet could do a bit more.