what pets are needed for higher levels?

Empu - Sanctuary

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think I'll modify my old Kowlin (and perhaps my Cub because it has Pounce)

I wish I could get pounce on my Kowlin xD I would love that skill, but armored bear/cub are just a bit to slow at my taste b:laugh Great thing of Kowlin is that you don't have to manually send it before attacking. But I'd love to see how the stuns time if you throw in lucky scarab and have pet on auto-attack with pounce.

And QQ : You outbid me on that Claw scroll b:cry

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Try out a pet with howl, pierce, pounce, slow and/or frighten. A pet as pure tanker is pretty much outdone besides some solo exceptions maybe. But there are more ways to use pets. I love a fast pet with the above skills as veno lacks those kind of skills in their own arsenal.

And off all ppl, I expect you to understand the value of having pierce for a physical debuff for till you casted amp, swapped back human and casted ironwood b:avoid

~Howl has its uses, I'll admit. Even better is getting a Snow Hare with Shriek on it and just learning to interrupt with a pet (great for aps venos that can't use skills but are tanking or HA venos who are weak to magic aoes), and snowhare also comes with pierce.

~Pierce... I say its a must for demon venos when they're playing support or even just to increase aggro for their pets. As a sage veno my Pierce will never be as good as Ironwood or Myriads and I should have one of those on 100% of the time.

~Pounce is what I was talking about earlier that all I need is an aggro skill or something to keep the mobs off me for one or two more attacks. Flesh Ream works for this two, even though its not a stun. It causes the mob to double back and stick to the pet for one more attack

~Slow. I'm still not a huge fan of the slow...anything. It's because my natural playstyle is melee and its an effort to play casters right and want to stay away from mobs. Usually slow is a hindrence as I'm trying to group mobs. I can see Slow helping in the same way Pounce does or how I use Flesh Ream to buy just one or two more attacks.

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

I agree with you. Even if pets undeniably need an update, they are not worthless.

I was mostly just kidding at the lack of uses for pets, but they're not as useful as they once were. Venos rarely solo instances with them anymore, comparing a 20 minutes 3-1 with a sin or a 2 hour 3-1 with a veno, the veno is no longer coin efficient. In squads a venos pet doesn't contribute much, and since most bosses now have random aggro they can even be a hindrance. In pk a pet is usually more than a fly to swat away (I do enjoy killing Nix's because leave it alive and it annoys you but make a veno rez it and it annoys them). So basically you are left with questing/soloing or being the last resort of a tank for bosses well below your level. No one quests much anymore and even when I am leveling a nub and a veno offers to kill my BH51 bosses for me with their herc I'm kind of disappointed. They have their uses but not longer have a niche, I guess.

Not worthless, just... sad? I'd like to see PWI present a balanced update to pets. With all their past ****-ups a pet update could both be devastating and hilarious.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Pets are essentially much better than lesser refined people in both defense and offense. If you think it's sad that most people 2 shot pets nowadays...consider that they also swat away lesser refined people like flies...

What they could just do is have refine bonuses carry over to pets to a lesser extent, especially pdef, mdef, and hp.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

And QQ : You outbid me on that Claw scroll b:cry

b:sad


Speaking of soloing, I guess I'm still one of those old-fashioned venos lol. Although I don't have as much time to play as I used to but up until this summer I still used to solo a lot, including herc-tanking various TT when duoing it with a friend. Because of that, for me the hercules was still valuable and a great investment and I think it will still remain like that because I still like soloing things. I think there are still venos out there who feel the same way.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Hmmm.

Well, lucky (along with all other stuns, whether the stun lands or not) does seem to generate a bucketload of aggro. But resetting aggro? Never seen that. I won't say outright "These people are all wrong", but right now, it sure seems that way.

Ok, my actions: Record my and my pet damage. That's easy enough - did a faction-mates culti last night. Pet damage on Chin in 1-1 was 2374 (or more when debuffs are applied)
my damage was in the 3k-4k range - I admit I'm not the highest geared veno in the world; so I can certainly believe that a bit more damage would let me steal from my pet. I already trivially can against, say, Stygean the archer boss in 79 where I don't have the [?] damage reduction and the herc doesn't have the reflect.

Level 85-90 barbs and BMs were competing with the herc for aggro; but some of that was the "I pull aggro immediately" barb skills. The herc was easily retaking after a punch or two (and the barb and BM were brambled too; so that should have been roughly even.)

A higher level Barb/BM can certainly hold aggro off the herc; but that's still not a bad chunk of damage; and a dedicated DD pet could do a bit more.

Unless it was demon bramble guard, the herc does more reflect damage (Level 5 Reflect = 70% melee damage reflected; level 10/sage Bramble Guard = 60% melee damage reflected; demon Bramble Guard = 75% melee damage reflected) though I don't put as much weight on bramble for holding aggro as most seem to, as it only counts toward raw damage inflicted; it's Bash (and its applied skill aggro boost) that is most likely pulling aggro back to the herc.

thumbs

Soloing instances wasn't where the coin was at to begin with; Soloing Valley of the Scarred was. Veno is also not that far behind sin in clearing instances if built and played right. Not everyone plays derp 1vs1.

In Nirvana pets are for the most part useless until the way it's done changes. (Some of the fastest caster squads I've been in were Clericless). W/o a cleric; pets would be useful for applying Howl, Frighten, etc.

To get talismans for Caster you need to do BH. Having a pet to tank long enough for you to apply debuffs still comes in handy on mobs, and is still often used to lure in Abaddon.

When it comes to damage; they are no Mystic Summons, but they are still significant DD. If they weren't significant; neither would a weapon refine be. You could probably talk yourself out of playing the game decent at all based on that fail premise.

Pets aren't necessary at all, but neither is a weapon or half a brain. They are simply useful.

Empu - Sanctuary

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

~Howl has its uses, I'll admit. Even better is getting a Snow Hare with Shriek on it and just learning to interrupt with a pet (great for aps venos that can't use skills but are tanking or HA venos who are weak to magic aoes), and snowhare also comes with pierce.

{snip}

I was mostly just kidding at the lack of uses for pets, but they're not as useful as they once were. {snip}

Idk the build of your veno, but even though you don't agree, you also seem to get the point with the Shriek example. Just to be clear, ofc I was not taking notice of any possible veno build, especially not HA fist which seems to be your case. That kind off niche-build is, imo, something only ppl should do when they know what they are doing. In which case, they don't really need advice. HA with mag weapon (fox orientated build) doesn't have bad magic defences usually (mag belt + neck and 250+ mag), which is why I presume fist build in your case. Ofc, slow is of no use for that, but it is for arcanes firering at range when they grab aggro easily.

I like pierce for many reasons. Since phys debuffs overwrite, it's a great starter to have amp and phys debuff before the spark of the aps DD ends without making the boss move. In my case, I also like it because I'm more foxform addict, so it avoids I have to change forms every increased *something* mob.

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think there are still venos out there who feel the same way.

You could be very right about that.

I still don't forgive you for the Claw scroll though b:avoid

thumbs wrote: »

When it comes to damage; they are no Mystic Summons, but they are still significant DD. If they weren't significant; neither would a weapon refine be. You could probably talk yourself out of playing the game decent at all based on that fail premise.

Pets aren't necessary at all, but neither is a weapon or half a brain. They are simply useful.

b:shocked I think I actually agree with thumbs on something.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

The most annoying thing is that a lot of Tweakz advice is very very good. He's always been a very smart veno.

It's just he also often goes off on extreme ranting tangents with the whole "My way to play is the only way worth playing" thing; which is amusing as that way changes over time.


Back to topic - I can believe 12k on the dino with debuffs active; that suggests about 3k raw; which is pretty nice.

How much do people hit hose bosses for with their magic; is the question though?


OVS grinding; AOE the mobs at the start? Always seems to be camped; melee classes go quicker there - and it's not been wonderful gains when I've tried. AOE the area between the camps? That seems more plausible, drops are nice, most of the mobs are magic and punch like they were made from sponges.
But those crossbowmen...
Dunno. I've not had good luck in ovs. Maybe I just need to find the right corner of it.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The most annoying thing is that a lot of Tweakz advice is very very good.

It's just he also often goes off on extreme ranting tangents with the whole "My way to play is the only way worth playing" thing; which is amusing as that way changes over time.

Yah, he's always about 95% accurate so you start going "hmm, I agr..wait a minute. WTF?"

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Idk the build of your veno

I'm HA/AA with a magic sword (working on it currently), mdef ornies, and about 300 magic.

There are a few reasons I picked that build. As I said in my previous post I gravitate toward melee. Eventually I get sick of kiting or hiding behind a pet and watching my aggro and just want to kill the mob and intentionally grab aggro to speed things up and get in the action. So I range till the mob gets close and then melee in fox form.

I also think I'm atypical because the veno use to be the ultimate solo class (still kind of is). As much as sins tend to **** people off nowadays, venos were it for me. They were always the class that refused to squad and would then try to KS your mobs. Or would squad then go off and do their own thing without communicating. Or would squad and giving you orders on how things were going to go.
I'm more social. I made my veno to be the best support I can be. I got tired of seeing bad venos that couldn't time an amp+debuff to HFs and spark and seemed on their own clock not paying attention to what the squad was doing. Or refused to use myriads. Or went squish easily. Or stood 35m back and caused mobs to chase them or bosses to run when random aggroing. So I built my veno to support my squad and to play how I wanted other venos to play. I'm not squishy (25k pdef, 11k mdef (?), 11k hp), I know how to time debuffs, and I know when my squadmates will need sparks. Other than that I'm a fly on the wall.

That being said, pets are slightly more important for AA venos. AA venos tend to require a tank pet for physical mobs. HA venos tend to be the tank and look for dd pets.

Empu - Sanctuary

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm HA/AA with a magic sword (working on it currently), mdef ornies, and about 300 magic.

There are a few reasons I picked that build. As I said in my previous post I gravitate toward melee. Eventually I get sick of kiting or hiding behind a pet and watching my aggro and just want to kill the mob and intentionally grab aggro to speed things up and get in the action. So I range till the mob gets close and then melee in fox form.

Mine is HA also with magic sword. I prefer to go fox 100% of the time, but some things are just better in human form (mainly ironwood and ranged attacks). I never combined with AA as my HA set + cube necklace gives about the magic defence of a TT99/R8 geared caster anyway. I'm working on morai magic sword to see the adds before I decide on cape (currently TM lunar one for stat points, would prefer to change to my nirvana cape).