To go claws or not to go, that is the question

Colum - Raging Tide · September 2012

I know there is prob. million threads about claw/aps barb build and I have checked those + heard lot of info about claw barbs.. Still I'm lost with my build.

My barb is currently r8.

I am fighting between 2 choises. Aps or T3 and recast weapon?

I can say I am not experienced with aps - barb would be my first one... And there are few questions bugging me in this issue.

1. I got told claw dmg isn't worth it and I don't get in vanas. How do you see this? I don't get in vanas with normal build either so...
2. Which would be the most effective claw barb gear build? One guy once told me instead of TT 99 gold ashu ornaments I could go with TT 99 lionheart wrists and belt + was it nirvana gear etc with the -int add when you get 2 pieces of the certain gear.
3. Is the lack of HP costful when tanking bosses?
4. Is the cost higher than BM/Sin aps?
5. Also got stated that APS barb is money maker, vit barb money looser. This statement is right, I assume.

And no, I dont do TWs b:cute

_Kodaijin_ - Heavens Tear · September 2012

first of all if you are gonna be a claw barb you ust be demon for it to be worth anything, you'll lose alot of hp as a claw barb s things you were once able to tank you might have trouble with afterwards. I personally dont like claw barbs, most claw barbs dont even get there demon/sage buffs even tho they need them for the dmage loss(no fist mastery) and the lower hp(loss of vit). Poison fang is essential to have demon if you are a claw barb. Claw barbs make money from farming but thats it, tank barbs can still make money unlike others think you go in with a bunch of friends and do tt or nirvy or w/e just like a claw barb can. i know on my bm before ive met claw barbs with +10 regicides when i had +5 deicides on my bm and they could still not keep aggro. Seen this many times in tt and nirvana. If you do go claw barb id say for s2 nirv pants, HA tt99 chest/boots, TT99 LA wrists/belt, that way you can keep a +5% max hp necklace so you still have decent hp. I know myself dont like it when i see a barb near my level with less hp than me buffed standing. To fix this issue you will have to spend quite abit and use vit gems in your armor, this may help the vit you sacrificed to go claw so you can still tank stuff in tiger form with ease. you could also lose the LA stuff and go Full TT99 HA for the 99 pieces in you get an interval tome.

shotwhointhewhat · September 2012

Is this just a pve barb or something?

Blaxton - Raging Tide · September 2012

If you're mostly PvE then it's not a bad idea.
Couple of builds...

LA Boots/Bracers
http://pwcalc.com/c2666c9c8e1bcc6c

HA Boots/Bracers
http://pwcalc.com/aa3d044504b15cb2

And of course you can also switch ornaments when necessary.
Ex http://pwcalc.com/a43eb0b9cd8e379a

Skills like Blood Rush, Poison Fang, and, if Demon, Bestial Onslaught will help to add to your damage output. As you upgrade your gear and reach higher refines/shards, you can restat VIT to STR to increase your damage even further.

The lower HP when standing up isn't that bad because sparking + BP will keep you healed most of the time. If things get really rough you can drop and use Invoke and then stand up and build your chi back up, and/or use some genie skills. You can also try to time your spark to resist magic nukes. I'd say it's not tanking bosses that becomes trickier, it's tanking pulls. As guides and others have said, keep around 16k+ HP in tiger form and things should be fine. Cornered Beast is awesome and great to use before a pull (or boss) that you think you'll have trouble with. If you have 5k prestige in Lumi, you can get 1 hour HP +245 runes for 10 influence, and there are the Morai Brews which add some HP too.

The cost to reach 5aps is about the same for BM and Barb. Sin usually costs more.

I think aps barb has a better chance at making more coins, especially from soloing. But I think the choice to go aps should be more about what your play-style preferences are. People who are really willing to help you farm probably won't care what your build is... You can try starting your own squads for 'Vana and TTs, whether aps or not; I'd be happy to join either way.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur · September 2012

Clawbarbs get to nirvana with decent refines, not in the fastest squads though. Unless barb got N3 claws/fists that is. Barb buffs inside instance are always great but that doesnt make barbs that wanted in more OP squads as barbs dmg output is kinda meh w/o N3 claws/fists.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · September 2012

I think for pve claw barbs are very useful and recommend it to barbs once they have decent refines. The hp loss isn't as bad as you'd think going from vit to claw. I have about 21k hp, I'd have 24k if I was vit barb.

1. I got told claw dmg isn't worth it and I don't get in vanas. How do you see this? I don't get in vanas with normal build either so...

I have both an aps barb and an aps bm I can tell you there really isn't much of a damage difference. Fist mastery gives bm's a slight dd edge over barb Poison Fang, barb Titans gets it back. Assuming both have Titans buff then BMs again have a slight edge but an aps barb can do a quick Penetrate Armor debuff in .9 seconds and for 20 chi and more than make up the dd difference. A BM would have to use 2 seconds (10 attacks) and 2 sparks to debuff and the time lost doesn't really cover the damage gained when soloing.

Not to mention opening with Devour (50% debuff) gives you 100% accuracy and about 7% more dps than a bm.

My barb still gets rejected by Vanas simply for being a barb. Even though he has t3 claws and 5 aps. Its just ignorance of the masses that this happens in the same way people would rather bring 5 sins than 4 sins and a veno who can amp and debuff and purge for them. If I join and there is no veno or cleric I'll insist that my barbs devour/PA will be worth it, and it is.

2. Which would be the most effective claw barb gear build? One guy once told me instead of TT 99 gold ashu ornaments I could go with TT 99 lionheart wrists and belt + was it nirvana gear etc with the -int add when you get 2 pieces of the certain gear.

I suggest LA wrist and boots. You lose a bit of hp not being HA, but you gain a ton of defenses that LA ornaments don't give you. If you have a -int tome you can be 3.33 base and 5.0 sparked without using pieces of LA, or you can be 4 aps unsparked with pieces of LA.

3. Is the lack of HP costful when tanking bosses?

Not really once you have a good base hp. I showed the math once using a screeny of my damage output and on bosses near my level I was getting about 4k-7k paint heals a second. That's 12-21k paint heals every 3 seconds, which is about the same as 5+ clerics spamming IH on you. On [?] bosses its more like 2 cleric's spamming IH on you.

So if you lost 3k hp but filled your squad with clerics all healing you at the same time, do you think you'd have issues surviving? The only problem is with slightly lower hp you run the risk of one shots or dieing through stun.

4. Is the cost higher than BM/Sin aps?

Same gear as a BM, pretty much. And Sins get r8 plate for -.1 aps for cheap, but have a more expensive weapon they require so that roughly balances out, too. Although with a sin you need higher refines to tank.

5. Also got stated that APS barb is money maker, vit barb money looser. This statement is right, I assume.

Meh. The vit barbs I run with don't tank anything and so don't need to repair. We get them for Deltas and Nix Valleys, which have a high repair bill, but once they've pulled inside a bubble people normally then rip the aggro and tank themselves. If the squad is too weak to tank or pull aggro the mobs take forever to kill and the barb has a high repair bill.

A good vit barb that can do large pulls is still wanted in many instances. I just did a full Lunar with a vit barb in 4 pulls (2 pulls first area, 1 pull second area, 1 pull 3rd), which was awesome. Once bb was up the psychic and my bm pulled aggro off him but we were in bb and lived fine. I FLd him and would gladly take him again on many different types of runs since bosses die in 15 seconds but getting to them takes a while. If I have a vit barb in squad the boss may take 15 seconds longer but we get there a couple minutes earlier.

At the same time, he's not gonna be able to farm by himself which an aps barb can do. Usually sooner than a sin, too. I prefer to run TTs on my barb than my sin because the time I lose dding on bosses by being a barb I make up by doing larger pulls, plus I'm safer with my higher defenses.

YachBarb - Harshlands · September 2012

I'm an aps barb on HL and I get a lot of beef for it, however
1. I can solo farm tts up to 2-3(might need a cleric for astral due to adds) and do up to 3-1 with a charm. I have 10k hp standing which is truly not impressive, but I plan to refine. Sins in 3-2, can do a lot of the bosses, but when it comes to emperor, the whole squad wipes from his close aoe physical, leaving me to tank. I usually succeed, but once died becayse of slow, his close aoe physical and his seal.
Prior to refining decently, id been doing bhs with only 10.8k hp tiger, buffed. Now I have 12.tk. I decided that for my build I wouldn't use int ornies mainly because 4 aps satisfies me and I die less. If I can get better hp addds, I could go 5 with ornies.
As a vit barb, I never got into nirvy, when I got my claws(had 2 tt99 prior to restat) I was 2.86 sparked. As soon as I got my int cape and 99 boots, I was accepted into nirvy squads. In the 1 week we had 2x for july, I farmed my 2nd cast legs(I had a bit of money prior)
I have strength titans and yet to have fang, but a +10 regi shouldn't lose to a +5 deicide, as I currently use ceides and have aggroed from equally geared/aps bms (due to me getting higher crit from buffs, devouring, and I can throw poison and mire in). If you wory of tanking id make sure u have atleast 9k standing( for 2-3 and for bhing as it is possible if u know what ur doing) the lack of 5 aaps may leave me at a disadvantage, but. I make up for it when bms marrow wrong and die, leaving me to tank. And I heal about 200-300 hp a second from bp.

Colum - Raging Tide · September 2012

Thanks for answers!

Still need to think about the build and farm + refine it before the switch...

Of course I am already demon, need to work on buffs still. Demon Devour will be nice help with its 15 secs lasting debuff when sparking.

http://pwcalc.com/e1f7feb7bcc336ac
One guy gave me this build... Is it totally bad?

thumbs · September 2012

YachBarb - Harshlands wrote: »

And I heal about 200-300 hp a second from bp.

-That's got to be with axes?

Intelligence seems co-linear with the amount of AoE in this game. I love some of the aps barbs, but the great AoE ones a bit more.

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear · September 2012

1. I got told claw dmg isn't worth it and I don't get in vanas. How do you see this? I don't get in vanas with normal build either so...

To get into a nirvana squad, people will expect that you can deal a significant amount of damage to the boss (It's a matter of weapon requirement). In general, a 6man squad will gratefully take a 4.0 deicide+5 barb (or better) and 4man squad will have minimum requirements at 5.0 G13 +10 (or better). Other squads will occasionally take the vit barb and agrees to slow down the run, just to be nice to the barb (or to take advantage of his 99key quest).

3. Is the lack of HP costful when tanking bosses?
On one paw, the lost in HP is significant, but not really critical to your suvival agaisnt bosses. Wherever you want to tank a boss in aps form, you have to remember that you will always have more hp than a similar bm or sin. And you can always stay in tiger form to tank special bosses(SOT or ABBA).

On the other paw, certain pulls are more difficult when you have less Hp (lunar/rb/pv). One mistake can be deadly (e.g getting stunned outside of BB). Vit-barbs have more room to make such mistakes and hence, they have potential to do larger pulls.

4. Is the cost higher than BM/Sin aps?
In theory, it should cost the same to build an aps-bm or aps-barb. But, you will also find yourself spending a good portion of your money/time into your axe/tank build as well. (BM's tend to spend less on their tank/axe)

5. Also got stated that APS barb is money maker, vit barb money looser.
True & False.

Switching to an aps barb is like an investment. You will spend a lot of money at first to get the interval gears and the weapon and it takes time to pay back the expenses by farming. It is true that an APS barb will find more sustainable opportunities to farm (especially during 2x). But, I have to remind you that a vit barb can still make money by merching/BH rewards/RBs/Selling Keys/Etc... Also, a vit-barb can invest money into making a sin or bm in order to farm gears for their barb.... Sad story is... some of those vit-barb manage to find themselves spending more time on their sin/bm and eventually, putting their vit-barb to retirement. (There are many examples on this forum alone.b:cry)

As a last note, there are quite a lot of fail aps-barbs (especially some bm stashing their gears and play their barb as if they were playing their bm). However, most of the bad criticisms against aps-barbs does not always come from lower performances of some aps-barb. The foundation of those criticisms mostly comes from the expectations that the class as a whole, should be tanks (taking damage) and not DD's (doing damage). Illustration of such expectations can be easily be observed: many experienced barbs are still refusing to use Arma in regular encounters just because they don't feel comfortable being a DD... although it would be more useful in many situations. Similarly, other people also expect that barbs should focus on building their HP/survivability rather than re-stating to aps.

And there are also some really 'stupid' people who has probably a pickaxe stuck in the butt (you can find an explicit example of such people in this thread) Better ignore them than feed the monkey with drama.

BladeMagus - Heavens Tear · September 2012

Making a demon APS barb is a lot cheaper than a sage APS barb.

One important note though: Aps is really only good against booses and the like. You will find that against individual mobs, u will still tear through them faster using your axes (unless ofc you dont mind burning up a ton of stamina on chi skills). So DO NOT IGNORE your axe weapon once you get your claws.

Im not particularly rich, so Im still a 4.0aps sparked barb with +6decides.

I stopped at 4.0aps because I want to keep my ornis from which I get a lot of HP. I used to wear a full TT99HA set, but now I have nirvy pants (needed the -int to go claws). I also use a -int WGTM cape. That combined with -int on decides, will give me 2.86 base aps. Sparked Im at 4.0.

I still have trouble getting vana squads, so I will usually start 6man squads for all the other poorer 4.0 aps guys.

Besides I think vana bosses are pushovers, and they should all be revamped to the new metal boss standards. b:chuckle

I like to think of my claw-form as a seperate form of a barb. So now I have tigerform, humanoid-axe and humanoid-claw forms and skillbars allocated as such.

Hazarduz - Heavens Tear · September 2012

Also, you are going to be switching almost 100-150 vit to dex.

If you were earlier sharding ambers into your axes you may now consider sharding your axes with HP gems since you've got enough accuracy and most of the time you will be tanking with axes.

LaYsDiL - Harshlands · September 2012

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think for pve claw barbs are very useful and recommend it to barbs once they have decent refines. The hp loss isn't as bad as you'd think going from vit to claw. I have about 21k hp, I'd have 24k if I was vit barb.

1. I got told claw dmg isn't worth it and I don't get in vanas. How do you see this? I don't get in vanas with normal build either so...

I have both an aps barb and an aps bm I can tell you there really isn't much of a damage difference. Fist mastery gives bm's a slight dd edge over barb Poison Fang, barb Titans gets it back. Assuming both have Titans buff then BMs again have a slight edge but an aps barb can do a quick Penetrate Armor debuff in .9 seconds and for 20 chi and more than make up the dd difference. A BM would have to use 2 seconds (10 attacks) and 2 sparks to debuff and the time lost doesn't really cover the damage gained when soloing.

Not to mention opening with Devour (50% debuff) gives you 100% accuracy and about 7% more dps than a bm.

My barb still gets rejected by Vanas simply for being a barb. Even though he has t3 claws and 5 aps. Its just ignorance of the masses that this happens in the same way people would rather bring 5 sins than 4 sins and a veno who can amp and debuff and purge for them. If I join and there is no veno or cleric I'll insist that my barbs devour/PA will be worth it, and it is.

2. Which would be the most effective claw barb gear build? One guy once told me instead of TT 99 gold ashu ornaments I could go with TT 99 lionheart wrists and belt + was it nirvana gear etc with the -int add when you get 2 pieces of the certain gear.

I suggest LA wrist and boots. You lose a bit of hp not being HA, but you gain a ton of defenses that LA ornaments don't give you. If you have a -int tome you can be 3.33 base and 5.0 sparked without using pieces of LA, or you can be 4 aps unsparked with pieces of LA.

3. Is the lack of HP costful when tanking bosses?

Not really once you have a good base hp. I showed the math once using a screeny of my damage output and on bosses near my level I was getting about 4k-7k paint heals a second. That's 12-21k paint heals every 3 seconds, which is about the same as 5+ clerics spamming IH on you. On [?] bosses its more like 2 cleric's spamming IH on you.

So if you lost 3k hp but filled your squad with clerics all healing you at the same time, do you think you'd have issues surviving? The only problem is with slightly lower hp you run the risk of one shots or dieing through stun.

4. Is the cost higher than BM/Sin aps?

Same gear as a BM, pretty much. And Sins get r8 plate for -.1 aps for cheap, but have a more expensive weapon they require so that roughly balances out, too. Although with a sin you need higher refines to tank.

5. Also got stated that APS barb is money maker, vit barb money looser. This statement is right, I assume.

Meh. The vit barbs I run with don't tank anything and so don't need to repair. We get them for Deltas and Nix Valleys, which have a high repair bill, but once they've pulled inside a bubble people normally then rip the aggro and tank themselves. If the squad is too weak to tank or pull aggro the mobs take forever to kill and the barb has a high repair bill.

A good vit barb that can do large pulls is still wanted in many instances. I just did a full Lunar with a vit barb in 4 pulls (2 pulls first area, 1 pull second area, 1 pull 3rd), which was awesome. Once bb was up the psychic and my bm pulled aggro off him but we were in bb and lived fine. I FLd him and would gladly take him again on many different types of runs since bosses die in 15 seconds but getting to them takes a while. If I have a vit barb in squad the boss may take 15 seconds longer but we get there a couple minutes earlier.

At the same time, he's not gonna be able to farm by himself which an aps barb can do. Usually sooner than a sin, too. I prefer to run TTs on my barb than my sin because the time I lose dding on bosses by being a barb I make up by doing larger pulls, plus I'm safer with my higher defenses.

Lol 4k hp? When i switched i was r9 and lost like 7k hp...rember ur switching like 200 vit points into dex..and whatever points back to vit..also its not all about hp think of all that pdef...what about sage barbs..3-4 aps wouldnt be enough dd for a barb..to be honest vit/str is what i like its a great build..i have no problem dropping ppl its an all around good barb build for barbs who like to pvp and pve and if planning to go r9 u can get full set with aps..basicly nirvana thats it..or three peices of r9..

Hazarduz - Heavens Tear · September 2012

Well yeah, ultimately the best PK gear would be full Rank9 or recasts or S3 etc. Lots more attack, lots more HP, lots more defenses too. I believe the issue at hand however is poorer folks wanting to make farm money, so that they too can get the really good stuff. And APS does allow this. I wouldnt go APS just to PK though, better way to PK than that. Its more for PvE.

I actually lost under 2.5k HP when I restatted to claws (went from 17.5k to 15.2k). That ofc is probably coz I was a demon barb and had around 100dex already.

So the HP loss is very very gear dependent. Also if u use a 5%hp necklace the HP loss would be even more exaggerated. On average though Id say a 5k HP drop is average.

I use a 3star necklace (didnt I say I was cheapb:laugh) that gives back more HP in trueform than a 5%necky would (remember the 5% doesnt stack with HPbuff or trueform buff or I believe the ToP heals).

And I see they still havent fixed my Avatar! b:surrender

Blaxton - Raging Tide · September 2012

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

Thanks for answers!

Still need to think about the build and farm + refine it before the switch...

Of course I am already demon, need to work on buffs still. Demon Devour will be nice help with its 15 secs lasting debuff when sparking.

http://pwcalc.com/e1f7feb7bcc336ac
One guy gave me this build... Is it totally bad?

Looks good. But will you start with that?
Going with TT Nirv Lionheart pants instead of Cascade Glow would allow you to start with 4 pieces of TT99 for the VIT bonus. Or you could have something like this that you could upgrade to this.

shotwhointhewhat · September 2012

LaYsDiL - Harshlands wrote: »

Lol 4k hp? When i switched i was r9 and lost like 7k hp...

4k is more accurate if you base it off the stat points alone. Say you need 140 more dex from your vit. That would be 2660 base hp. With hp buff that is about 3.5k standing and a little over 4k in tiger.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · September 2012

LaYsDiL - Harshlands wrote: »

Lol 4k hp? When i switched i was r9 and lost like 7k hp...rember ur switching like 200 vit points into dex..and whatever points back to vit..also its not all about hp think of all that pdef...what about sage barbs..3-4 aps wouldnt be enough dd for a barb..to be honest vit/str is what i like its a great build..i have no problem dropping ppl its an all around good barb build for barbs who like to pvp and pve and if planning to go r9 u can get full set with aps..basicly nirvana thats it..or three peices of r9..

I think its 31 hp per vit point in tiger, so 7k difference is 226 vit points assuming full demon buffs, demon tiger, cube neck...

Which is possible, I was just kind of giving an average. I also was comparing a standing aps barb vs a standing vit barb, not a barb in tiger. Which 226 vit would be around 5k hp. Most vit barbs dont have 226 vit though, and you can still have almost 100 vit and wear claws, depending on your strength so the difference really doesn't have to be that large. Anywhere from 7k in tiger form to 1500 hp in human, depending on the previous stats and culti. For me its was about 2500 in tiger form because I was a heavy str build with 100 dex already and kept 65 vit.

I'm also one of the people who like the idea of a sage aps barb. A 20k hp vit barb who doesn't get to triple spark because they're spamming FR/devour is the same as a triple sparked 15k hp barb (before true form defenses) so that balances the hp/def loss of aps but increases the damage output and aggro.

The combo I use in squads is I buff Titans (5% crit) before I go in then open with a devour (50% pdef debuff), human form, Triple spark and aps. This way the squad has the pdef debuff during the initial onslaught of debuffs when people subsea/EP +HF+TM +Amp. Then I'll triple spark, switch to axes and PA, back to claws everytime I spark so I keep a pretty constant 35% pdef debuff going. One reason I like sage is they get the 45% PA. Its an insanely hard skill to find and very expensive, but would compliment an aps barb very nicely.

Tawarwaith - Sanctuary · September 2012

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

I am fighting between 2 choises. Aps or T3 and recast weapon?

I can say I am not experienced with aps - barb would be my first one... And there are few questions bugging me in this issue.

1. I got told claw dmg isn't worth it and I don't get in vanas. How do you see this? I don't get in vanas with normal build either so...
2. Which would be the most effective claw barb gear build? One guy once told me instead of TT 99 gold ashu ornaments I could go with TT 99 lionheart wrists and belt + was it nirvana gear etc with the -int add when you get 2 pieces of the certain gear.
3. Is the lack of HP costful when tanking bosses?
4. Is the cost higher than BM/Sin aps?
5. Also got stated that APS barb is money maker, vit barb money looser. This statement is right, I assume.

And no, I dont do TWs b:cute

Personally, I tried out an aps build (4 aps sage with G15 nirvana fists) but restatted back to vit. I don't think fist barb is bad, but in my case the loss of hp and restriction in gear really wasn't worth the advantages of fists. Imo, fists are only to be used on bosses that you won't tank (quite often, you will be wanted to snatch aggro just to save a few hits on the tanking sin or you will want the hp/def from true form) and for soloing. To be clear, fist barbs that pull out their fists every mob annoy the **** out of me. Fist or vit, the main reason I like a barb in my squad is for gathering purposes. So if you restat to aps, plz keep in mind that you will need the gear and axes/hammers to still assure your traditional role.

To sum it up, I found the main pro's of a fist barb :
- Easier and cheaper solo ability, especially TT
- Feel more usefull on bosses
At the cost off :
- Loosing around 5~7k hp depending on your restat to max str or min str
- A big limitation in gear and/or the cost (for instance, TM capes are really crappy for delta)

To answer your questions with my opinion :
1) Tbh, strictly class looking for good setup (in reality, I don't care much what classes I vana with but more the ppl), fist barbs are not usefull. Nirvana squads these days are DD (which are sins) and debuffers (bm + veno). If I were to take a barb, it would be more as debuff role then DD role. I got a sin, and I know the ridiculous gap existing between fists and daggers. In most cases, bms are just amp ho's. In same extent, if I were to take a barb, it would be for the buffs + devour. I don't care if he uses fists between devours or if he just stays tiger. Ofc, some bm/barb/archers have amazing fists and will easily replace a mediocre sin. Ofc, can't always find a veno so another class with phys def debuff will be asked. Ofc, sometimes barbs will be wanted for hp buff. But overall, there is no real reason to specifically want an aps barb over a vit barb if you ask me.

2) Most go for ashura boots + wrists and lionheart ornaments. You can do the opposite. The first is more all round. The second will force you to have mag defence ornaments. I think the later will ultimately be prefered as it limits the gear restriction effect (but you will have to swap a lot). For the rest it's pretty standard : tm cape, nirvana leggings, tome, deicides. Can try your luck on r8r plate.

3) This depends on your refines. Ofc, if you go from 20k to 13k, it will suck. If you go from 30k to 23k, it won't matter that much. In the end, the loss of hp and the limitation of TT99 items will make a difference. For me, with a sin that I dual often with barb, this was a reason to stat back to vit build. If it's your only toon, the pro's from fist build probably make it worth the loss in survival. Against bosses, it won't matter much as long as you stay above 18k. On big pulls (rebirth, trials, etc), you will notice. But if you can do it with the less hp, does it really matter to maybe use a crabmeat more ?

4) Gear and cost is strictly the same as bm, with all possible variations equal for both classes (like r8r plate).

5) I don't agree a vit barb is a money looser. Especially now there are a couple of places where you might make more friends with impressive hp rather then with impressive 1 target damage. But it is true that fist barb will be an easier money maker. At lower gear because you can efficiently solo places like TT and fcc. At high end gear because you can probably do the same things as a vit barb, and you still have the ability to efficiently solo. Only thing is, you will need better refines/shards before your restat.

Overall, if I were you, I would just go for it and try it yourself. You don't have any other aps farming toons, so the fist build will give you obvious advantages. If you don't like it, you can always restat back.

_Synergy_ - Heavens Tear · September 2012

I switched from vit to aps a long time ago actually like 2 months maybe.
I started loving the aps barb as soon as I made the switch when aps craze was at its peak.
Now with the G16 release, my aps barb feels like its not dealing enough damage. I'm 5.0 G13+7 atm.
Just want to say that be ready to put some extra 100m or so as compared to say a BM to get your HP up to 16k+ in tiger.
Since I'm not that rich, I'm in a stage right now where I can't even DD as well as a BM nor tank as good a vit barb. Even though I got demon poison fang.

So, I decided to make a BM, acc stash all the barb's gear and make the barb vit, I want to do instances like warsong but I never got around to doing them due to time issues I have and I don't I will be able to do them with my squishy barb.

Just make sure before you restat that you have enough coins for 5.0 at least and that you can keep the HP more than 16k in tiger. I got about 14k so yeah.

Also, when I actually noticed the damage difference between aps barb and BM was when I actually tried soloing till BR and took me about 2 hours LOL when I was 4.0 +7 first run.
On bosses, a Bm can easy spark>CE>HF aps you will see a difference as compared to a barb devour> spark and aps.
Other than myself I also saw this aps barb 5.0 +7 he was in FF, he took like 10 mins alone on the boss before BR. I tried it with a 5.0 + 10 BM tho and in less than 5 mins the boss was dead.

YachBarb - Harshlands · September 2012

thumbs wrote: »

-That's got to be with axes?

Intelligence seems co-linear with the amount of AoE in this game. I love some of the aps barbs, but the great AoE ones a bit more.

Well, if it weren't for my poorly refined deicdes, lack of demon poison fang, lack of sage bloodpaint and the 75% damage reduction in tt/some bosses in gen, id be healing alotmore.

LaYsDiL - Harshlands · September 2012

A vit barb isnt a money loss mabye we cant run nirvana but the big money maker is running tm69-tm79 for lower level players to get therecape...thats how barbs afford there r9 i find its the best money maker there is...depending if your a good merch or not

LaYsDiL - Harshlands · September 2012

Thing is if u go aps...u have to settle for tt=99 or vana

VKnightV - Lost City · September 2012

go pure str .......

claw dex sux

b:bye

Blaxton - Raging Tide · September 2012

LaYsDiL - Harshlands wrote: »

A vit barb isnt a money loss mabye we cant run nirvana but the big money maker is running tm69-tm79 for lower level players to get therecape...thats how barbs afford there r9 i find its the best money maker there is...depending if your a good merch or not

My 5aps barb has pulled TM69... haven't tried 79 though. ;o It really depends on gear too... Recently dropped to 20 vit, and there are still vit build Sage barbs that have about the same or even less HP in Sage Tiger Form than me because I have higher refines. Vit just makes reaching higher HP cheaper vs. having to refine high.

LaYsDiL - Harshlands wrote: »

Thing is if u go aps...u have to settle for tt=99 or vana

TT99 and Nirvana is cheaper and easier to settle for at first, but one could always have a second set of gear or try for something like this http://pwcalc.com/1ff5b70c293b7d44.

Colum - Raging Tide · September 2012

Thanks again.

I think I made my decision - this barb goes with vit, I will lvl alts to try out STR and DEX builds.

SteelStar - Heavens Tear · September 2012

Just want to throw this out there: No, why? Roll a sin or bm. I can do more damage in with one attack than most claw barbs and some bms could do in 15 seconds of 5.0.... Anyone can go aps, but no pure vit and be so EPIC!

Hazarduz - Heavens Tear · September 2012

As has been stated above:

If you've got alt toons like a sin or a BM, make them an aps toon.

If a barb's all you play (like me), then you might consider the aps path. Just dont expect to be the main tank or DD. (You probably wont be as a vit barb anymore either).

SteelStar - Heavens Tear · September 2012

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

Thanks again.

I think I made my decision - this barb goes with vit, I will lvl alts to try out STR and DEX builds.

*Likes* b:victory

Blaxton - Raging Tide · September 2012

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I just did a full Lunar with a vit barb in 4 pulls (2 pulls first area, 1 pull second area, 1 pull 3rd), which was awesome.

It takes me 2 pulls for the last Valley.

I'm guessing they used a vac powder and a holy path or two? Or maybe Violent Triumph then vac, etc? I like to use Shadow Binders but they don't last as long, so I usually end up stopping in the middle.

Deago - Lost City · September 2012

LaYsDiL - Harshlands wrote: »

Thing is if u go aps...u have to settle for tt=99 or vana

You do not have to settle for just tt99 or vana you can have r9 , it doesnt take much to switch some gears out so you can have aps and or axes.

Niteshadows - Harshlands · September 2012

To be honest, I personally believe using claws as a barb is a waste of time. You don't need a bm's toy to achieve 3 sparks in 10 seconds. That's what Beastial Rage is for..... it helps you mooch off of aps users.b:chuckle

To go claws or not to go, that is the question

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