Mystics are not considered AOE DDs ? True or Igonrance ?

darksynn · August 2012

I'm on the Raging tide server and as Mystic myself I feel sorta insulted by this remark that was made on World Chat, but yet it makes me wonder if there is some hint of truth to it. This comment apparently relates to Delta and that like a Veno, Mystics make the team go slow, and because our AOEs require 2 sparks we shouldn't consider ourselves AOE DDs .

I mean I know we have :-

The Storm Mistress's Aoe
The Craglord's Aoe
The Mystic's Ticket
The Mystic's Gale Force

But given the fact our Aoes require any amount of Sparks , doesn't Cloud Eruption and the Appo Chi pots remedy that?

Or is it that Seekers, Wizards and Archers should be considered AOE DDs because they have those channeling AOE spells.?

Euthymius - Heavens Tear · August 2012

Meh, Ive heard this before when I tried getting into RB squads in the past - some are such foals that they refuse to go in without stacking all three continuous AoE types in a squad (perhaps because such an approach is "idiot-proof"). That being said, I find Mystics to be excellent at RB due to their Summon damage not being weakened and their ability to debuff groups with Creeper and its Lysing.

Their Galeforce is also pretty useful for saving fragile Wizards/Psychics/Archers when they've bitten off more than they can chew too. b:pleased

thumbs · August 2012

There is no such thing as continuous AoE. Dragon's Breath is unaffected by -channeling and only hits once every 3 seconds. Many classes are able to sustain comparable AoE intervals.

Mystics have distributed dmg and can funnel multiple AoE's within that 3 seconds or whatever amount of time an HF, GS, SS, etc might last giving them the upper hand. They can also do this while generating less aggro (which is a huge issue for fledgling wizards).

Assassins face a similar but larger problem (though ignorance of others is Mystic's only real problem), though most of them are too stupid to over come it. Assassins before Morai only had 2 AoE's with a small CD problem. However; they're in a unique position to stack skills into those 2 AoEs such as Power Dash, Eruption, and Chill of the Deep. They also have an option casters don't of an AoE debuff (Tangling Mire) that works with their (phys) attk. The problem there is the Barbs and BMs that like to move the whole group of mobs around in RB, or the BMs that can't be relied on for consistent HF timing.

Burnout - Harshlands · August 2012

TLDR :

I've played both a R8 wizard and a R8 mystic with the exact same gears, so I think I have a decent perspective on how they compare.

It depends. Before lucky break and invigorate, wizards and archers are *slightly* better than mystics, but not by much. After they get those 2 skills, Mystics are better in almost every single way by a huge margin, except for TW.

For ?? lvl orange mobs, mystics require good management of cragglord in order to do significant aoe damage in a short amount of time. This requires that you have 2 sparks available. But the Cragglord will absolutely devastate anything it attacks. I went through 3 full GV's with just regular TT99/event gears and R8 +6 wep without any problems (my squad had similar gears except for a R9 sin, who are mostly useless in there anyway), so I can guarantee you an average R8 mystic will have no problems in GV as long as they know how to play it.

For mobs +2 lvl or lower, mystics can use gale force + energy leech/crit mods. If the mystic has lucky break, and your squad has a BM with lvl 10 dragon, and you can time your gale force to the BM's dragon, then there's really no way a wizard can make up the damage we do unless the fight lasts longer than ~20-30 seconds.

My R9+10 mystic w/ invigorate, triple spark, and BM dragons does ~ 340k damage to pve mobs, and this damage is guaranteed (since everything is crit). A wizard that tries the same thing with 3 sparks (double spark + dragon's breath = 3 sparks) will do around 80k damage. 80k vs 340k with similar resources.

R9 +12 maxed out wizards need to bring in a BM to duo PV100 efficiently. My mystic can do it solo w/o a charm in about 7 minutes. I don't know about archers, but I suspect they do it about as efficiently as wizards. Yes, my mystic has great gears, but I'm comparing myself to other R9 +12 archers and wizzies.

Archers and Wizards are far more practical for AOe damage in TW, however. For mystics to do what wizzies do in TW, they have to pop IG, triple spark, and Holy path into the entire enemy army. Wizzies just click a single button and wait 4 seconds.

laloner · August 2012

The psy threads QQing about how they have 8 AOEs were bad enough now its the mystics.

OontzOontz - Dreamweaver · August 2012

What you guys need to do is stop pretending that everyone is a skilled player.

A lot qq constantly about hyper babies, then expect other people to think all mystics will be pro when all they have experienced are awful ones.

darksynn · August 2012

For the two above who don't seem to understand English much it's not a QQing thread but a Clarification Thread if you READ correctly.

I don't assume everyone plays like a pro nor do I expect it but at least this thread would offer pointers and tips to help others as well as myself on how to play our mystics better and educate the other classes as to what mystics can do even in Delta and other such AOE situations.

Sorta bias also those assume because you've encountered BAD mystics all the other mystics following would be the same. I could form the same opinion of Sins and Barbs but I don't.

To the others thank you for the very informative responses.

TaecYeoN - Lost City · August 2012

Those two(you know who you are) calling this thread a QQ thread, use your brains if you got any. I don't usually post on forums due to the vast ignorance of majority of the posters but I'm responding to this one because I can empathize with the OP on this one. On topic, it is not so much that people have bad experiences with mystics but rather that people are too lazy to read about other classes and their skills. If majority of the people in game *notice I didn't say forums * would take the time to take a look at what mystics can do, they would understand how useful mystics can be in terms of their aoes. I once had a R9 sin tell me that my mystic was not aoe DD and that his sin had more aoes than my mystic. See what I mean?

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear · August 2012

AoE debuffing

Mistress

Cragglord

Thicket

Gale Force

Vast dmg on all of them and only 2 double sparks skills (cloud eruption , master li's techinque , apothecary)

yeah i dont see any AoE heres , must be blind

Seriously there are many idiots , the talent is to tell them apart. Practise that and there is nothing to worry about.

Azu_Nya - Dreamweaver · August 2012

Well, I once did delta with 2 kitties, cleric, bm and 2 mystics. Full delta. And tigers weren't those DDs, who wiped all waves for 20 seconds.
Both mystics weren't even r8, so idk, really, how you can refuse to take mystic in delta.

TaecYeoN - Lost City · August 2012

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

In Delta, if you are Sage, have Master Li's Technique, a level 6 Cloud Eruption on your genie, and carry a few Chi pots (just in case), all you will really be doing is dropping vital herb & spamming Craglord skills, for the most part with each Wave. Along with a good BM, and whatever other players that have a clue how to play their character you will 'rock the house' in Delta.

I dont play a Demon Mystic, so I dont know if they find it just as easy. *shrugs*

My very first Delta, the one I did for my culti, I was the only one with even R8 in the squad, there was also an archer, BM, barb, cleric. The BM DC'd around Wave 5, but we made it all the way through Wave 8, and didnt wipe until almost downing Wave 9. If the BM had returned, it would have been a cake walk.

That just shows how good things can be when people in your squad rely on skill and not gears.

Bias - yes! New chars are like the nerdy white kids that want to roll with the gangstas. b:chuckle

But, a good player, no matter its class, will always overcome. b:victory

I play a demon mystic so I'll answer this for you

With demon break in the clouds I can get full 3 sparks before the next wave even comes. Add that with the chi aura and sometimes I have more than enough sparks to use I worry how I'm going to use all rofl. XD

Lucrecia - Momaganon · August 2012

Well what is a mystic ? Not an AoE-DD .IMO it is a
1. Supporter (Debuffing/Buffing)
2.2nd Healer to make sure the seeker/bm/archer/wiz isnt dying while aggroing the boss
3. DD depending on the situation and squad.

That means, my priority in squad is to make sure my herbs are active, (VH,BC,SV or HH)
to buff, and to be ready to heal fast enough when the "better" DDs are nearly dead even with bb.
And while im doing this i make sure that i use my Thicket, or in delta etc my cragg as often i can. But AoEs is just not where mystics beginn to shine.

Sure they have great AoEs, but the mystic himself has only 1 AoE. Great damage indeed, but it is only one and the side effect is not always wanted >>

Cragg is easy to spawn often, even more as a sage. And he does great damage, but if not timed properly it run out of time without max damage potencial.

Mistress has good AoE, but you should decide what to summon. (And I think for the most mystics with enough chi thats a pretty easy question)

So i would rather take a seeker or wiz or psych as AoE dds because you KNOW they will do great AoE damage + good side effects, even when they are fail. When you invite a myst, you dont know how they play their class. If they use AoE, what AoE, and how their chi recovering is.

I met Myst 90+ who couldt take 1 mob group in fc solo because: " Sorry my mistress couldnt tank them" (lol) " I didnt have chi for cragg, i wanted to tank them till i have the chi" "What is thicket?"

In delta, you need to make your AoEs shine. And thats not easy for many mystics, so you either inv a mystic and see that hes great and knows how to use his few AoEs, or ... you decide to take not a myst to next delta if you need an AoE DD

TaecYeoN - Lost City · August 2012

Lucrecia - Momaganon wrote: »

Well what is a mystic ? Not an AoE-DD .IMO it is a
1. Supporter (Debuffing/Buffing)Situational, some classes have way better debuffs than our plants/As for buffs you should only need to do that once if you have a good squad(with exception to falling petals/salv buff as you may want the pull buffed with it)
2.2nd Healer to make sure the seeker/bm/archer/wiz isnt dying while aggroing the boss Again, situational. If you got a cleric, let the cleric do its job. Step in when the cleric can't handle. You are more help being DD than trying to support a cleric who doesn't need help healing
3. DD depending on the situation and squad. Something I can actually fully agree with, if your squad is good, you can dd to your heart's content. However, if your squad sucks and don't know how to use crabs and herbs, well better start being number 1 and 2 for a bit/

That means, my priority in squad is to make sure my herbs are active, (VH,BC,SV or HH)
to buff, and to be ready to heal fast enough when the "better" DDs are nearly dead even with bb. They're not really better DDs if they die too fast to do enough DD =p
And while im doing this i make sure that i use my Thicket, or in delta etc my cragg as often i can. But AoEs is just not where mystics beginn to shine.

Sure they have great AoEs, but the mystic himself has only 1 AoE. Great damage indeed, but it is only one and the side effect is not always wanted >>
You forget that thicket counts as a summon and thus does full damage on [?] mobs. When I'm in GV squads my thicket(demon) paired with bms hf will knock down 99.9% of the pull simply because it's full damage. You to have to remember also, the mobs in GV don't have massive hp. IMO if my thicket will eliminate mosty of the pull, it will outweigh the seal effect and make it easier for the squad.

Cragg is easy to spawn often, even more as a sage. And he does great damage, but if not timed properly it run out of time without max damage potencial.

Mistress has good AoE, but you should decide what to summon. (And I think for the most mystics with enough chi thats a pretty easy question)
I usually summon Mistress for pulls where the mobs hps are 50k or below in GV as her aoe combined with everyone else's is more than enough, cragglord comes out for the pulls where the mobs hp ranges from 50k to 300k in GV

So i would rather take a seeker or wiz or psych as AoE dds because you KNOW they will do great AoE damage + good side effects, even when they are fail. When you invite a myst, you dont know how they play their class. If they use AoE, what AoE, and how their chi recovering is. So you're saying it is safer to have toons with channeled aoes like a wiz, archer, or seeker simply because they "can't" mess it up?Psys with their souls of silence on...oh that'd be a funny site in GV when they take aggro. To be honest, when you invite ANY CLASS, you won't know how they play it. You may know what skills they have but you never know how they'll use it. As such, it would be unfair to say that in regards to mystics only.

I met Myst 90+ who couldt take 1 mob group in fc solo because: " Sorry my mistress couldnt tank them" (lol) " I didnt have chi for cragg, i wanted to tank them till i have the chi" "What is thicket?"

In delta, you need to make your AoEs shine. And thats not easy for many mystics, so you either inv a mystic and see that hes great and knows how to use his few AoEs, or ... you decide to take not a myst to next delta if you need an AoE DD

Responses above.

LividLemur - Dreamweaver · August 2012

darksynn wrote: »

I'm on the Raging tide server and as Mystic myself I feel sorta insulted by this remark that was made on World Chat, but yet it makes me wonder if there is some hint of truth to it. This comment apparently relates to Delta and that like a Veno, Mystics make the team go slow, and because our AOEs require 2 sparks we shouldn't consider ourselves AOE DDs .

I mean I know we have :-

The Storm Mistress's Aoe
The Craglord's Aoe
The Mystic's Ticket
The Mystic's Gale Force

But given the fact our Aoes require any amount of Sparks , doesn't Cloud Eruption and the Appo Chi pots remedy that?

Or is it that Seekers, Wizards and Archers should be considered AOE DDs because they have those channeling AOE spells.?

As alluded to by another poster, many random squads will prefer a seeker (or wiz/arch) because the 'continuous' (although thumbs has a point too xD) AOE is harder to screwup by the average joe than it is for a mystic to know how to play.

On top of that, a mystics aoe prowess has a fair bit to do with gear and "skill levels"/skills learned. A lame mystic wont do much, whereas a lame seeker can still do decent aoe damage. Seeker vortex also takes 2 sparks though, btw, but yeah it can last indefinitely. A powerful mystic however is extremely powerful, so when people take random people/mystics they aren't sure what they're gonna get, as there is a wide spectrum

As it relates to Delta
Delta is actually an instance where imo mystics are a "true aoe". And that is simply because when you use gale force, surviving mobs may scatter but they scatter slowly. Very important contrast than say to lunar or warsong, where the mobs will run full speed in all directions, PO'ing your fellow melee squad members. In Delta it doesn't matter to anyone with half a brain.. The mobs scatter all of 3m mebbe over a few seconds, come back to zhen quick (if they even leave range of vortex or db, which is also rare), save a little equipment beating on your main AOE (if u have a seeker/arch/wiz... or even on your self if you are the AOE tank of the squad), and don't disrupt the rhythm of the wave. The ones that rubberband get galed again as needed. If there is a seeker or other zhen dealer, ill stand right next to him/her so that the mobs get damage from both.

I rarely use cragglord. If there is a BM in squad (hopefully xD), mystic aoe will really shine. Since there is a 2 min timer between mob waves early on, you can anticipate when the mobs will spawn. Right at the timer as indicated by the clock in the upper right, triple spark and a couple secs later hit Lucky Break as the mobs head toward you. The BM should HF the mobs right when they approach BB range and then you invoke gale force (and if the bm doesn't, politely encourage him to do this pattern). Boom. You've just wiped out all of the melee mobs in one hit, or at least severely crippled them. Instead of using cragglord (and 2 sparks), send mistress out to the archers/sorcerers with her aoe attack to get aggro, if needed. Usually it isn't needed since the other DDs have to do something (b:chuckle), thus can use mistress on the melee mob grp. Now you have 1:15 - 1:50 secs to build chi to repeat the process b:victory

I prefer the above method than cragglord but that's due to the sick combo of hf, lucky break and gale. I WILL use Cragglord on stun waves xD. The mobs are v weak on those (relatively) and if i get stunned/slept/sealed w/e, cragg is out there chewing them to pieces. I dont even bother popping a VAC until the 9th wave one. And i rarely use chi pots, instead relying on cloud eruption, master li, and the vry long wait in between waves to spam BitClouds. You don't need to hurt the bank on apo pots for delta xP

Anyway, mystics dont have to use 2 sparks to do aoe damage in delta (or elsewhere). Seekers do, lol. But there are variables to consider as mentioned. Again, i place priority on the scatter speed thing. In lunar and warsong im more likely to use cragglord than thicket or gale (except mebbe on mobs on water pav during full warsong).
For mystics newer to delta i would suggest using craggy until u have maxed skills and ultis, etc.

Mystics "are" an AOE class among other things, but it depends on the instance, your skillset/gear, and squad composition. In TW you probably wont be using aoes as your main tactic (as another poster had also mentioned) but in Delta u definitely should.

To answer the Q posed by the thread title, the answer is "ignorance", especially as it relates to delta. It is up to us mystics to change this perception as much as possible, and to bear in mind there will always be some close-minded fools whose perception we will never change, and leave it at that. If u can consistently steal squad aggro by triple-sparking + gale (plus hopefully lucky break) though, even the most hard-headed will come around. Especially if u don't die when you do steal aggro, lol

Brillance - Raging Tide · August 2012

LividLemur, I seem to learn something everytime you post. Thank you! b:thanks

I didnt know there was a squad appropriate place to use GF, outside of TW. Just watched an almost year old TW based vid where the Mystic was using Energy Leech + Lucky Break + Gale Force. At one point the Mystic attacks a Catabarb and takes out half the HP of the entire squad (with the exception of the Barb), and didnt seem to be including the Triple Spark into the mix.

I can't wait to try this next time Im in Delta, and in TW. I can see its not exactly new to those who have been around a while, but its certainly "new" news to those of us that were still baby Mystics when the Lucky Break skill came out. It will certainly add interest to my next Delta. b:sin

Thanks again! b:victory

Xainou - Sanctuary · August 2012

People are idiots. Simple as that.

But then again, I see enough lazy-mystics around. Imo there is no excuse to have a chiyu out in delta/trials. Yet I see people doing it. And yet I see mystics not bothering to use mistress at bosses in trials. It hurts...

Lucrecia - Momaganon · August 2012

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

Um...who would expect a Mystic to tank, and what kind of mob group are you talking about? Im seriously like, "lol what??" Why would they randomly say that?

When the whole squad hasnt arrived yet, the puller is afk, sin is doing shade and the cleric cant do it. I said FC in this case, and solo groups should be easy to kill for a mystic lvl 90+. Sure when the squad is full, the mystic wont tank. But there is no need to wait like 10 mins till everyone arrived when you can start clearing yourself, especially in rooms where big pulls arent neccesary.

Its possible, depending on what they were doing before you asked for Crag. 90+, huh? Hmmm....if its true, more likely they hadnt leveled crag up yet. Its not every Mystics first pet/summons to learn to play. Some never level it all.
It doesnt depend on the lvl. My cragg is like lvl 2 or 3, and I can use it as soon as the cd allows it. Many skills of a mystic need chi, so you should be able to gain chi easy. And when you KNOW you want to use him, youre trying to gain chi and not QQing that you dont have chi.

Switching it up to a tanking HA Mystic are we?
I saw this a few times, mysts are running into mobs, heal themselves and then trying to get out cragg/thicket. I never said this would work.

Good question. Rates right up there with, "What's someone doing trolling a random thread on the Mystic forums?"
Im not trolling, im anwering to the thread OP.

Yeah please. Take another DD class. Sounds like you need an APS Barb. xD b:cute
ahem lol?

if the mystic decides to use cragg instead of mistress, he should be able to use it at pulls and to gain chi. Its the same as a cleric who wants to bb, but doesnt do it because of "No Chi". If he/she didnt get CE, MLT or chi pots then you can take out mistress - then you dont need chi and if you finally get 2 sparks, you can make a mistress/thicket combo.

thumbs · August 2012

Lucrecia - Momaganon wrote: »

Well what is a mystic ? Not an AoE-DD .IMO

All classes are AoE dd; NOT opinion.

1. Supporter (Debuffing/Buffing)

Same as all classes.

2.2nd Healer to make sure the seeker/bm/archer/wiz isnt dying while aggroing the boss

In most situations; fail seeker/bm/archer/wiz should pot rather than slow squad with their own neediness.

That means, my priority in squad is to make sure my herbs are active, (VH,BC,SV or HH)
to buff, and to be ready to heal fast enough when the "better" DDs are nearly dead even with bb.

So you're saying you suck as dd? -Why would your advice pertain to good dd then?

Sure they have great AoEs, but the mystic himself has only 1 AoE. Great damage indeed, but it is only one and the side effect is not always wanted >>

^^ fail mystic

So i would rather take a seeker or wiz or psych as AoE dds because you KNOW they will do great AoE damage + good side effects, even when they are fail. When you invite a myst, you dont know how they play their class. If they use AoE, what AoE, and how their chi recovering is.

'K - let us know your mystic name so we can avoid it.

In delta, you need to make your AoEs shine.

You meant AoE; not AoEs right?

MrMelvin - Heavens Tear · August 2012

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

People are idiots. Simple as that.

But then again, I see enough lazy-mystics around. Imo there is no excuse to have a chiyu out in delta/trials. Yet I see people doing it. And yet I see mystics not bothering to use mistress at bosses in trials. It hurts...

I agree with what you say about using Chihyu in Delta but for players without Lucky Break like myself I found the leeching to substitute the Lucky Break effect quite useful especially for stun waves.

Assuming this is not spawn point run:
-Summon Chihyu while mobs are being rounded up
-Leech
-Rapid Growth
-Gale Force when grouped - Crit like crazy (46% crit rate when I do this)
and if you manage to hit any archer mobs outside of continuous AoE area you have 100% more pdef to 'tank' them.

I would probably stick to the Lucky Break method when I actually get it though because I won't be using as much chi and could probably spark without needing Cloud Eruption. Although this requires you to talk to the BM if you want to mix this with HF.

Xainou - Sanctuary · August 2012

I probably suck for not using leech as much. lol My usual combo is having missy out with her aoe, dropping a creeper to lyse it, then a thicket and a lucky gale into the HF ._.

Never had any trouble with surviving tbh. b:surrender

MrMelvin - Heavens Tear · August 2012

I probably should have made myself clearer, I use that combo during stun waves, I just find it more useful than having both myself and Mistress stunned with no damage being done.

I also don't have trouble surviving but I thought I would add the 'tanking ranged mobs' comment in case someone tried my method and needed the boost but like you don't leech much.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · August 2012

Well in GV i'm told sometime to stop AoE DD, cause other don't have time to DD. xD
Plus when you say you have invigorate they normally take you without any question.
Mystic are great in GV if they know what to do.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · August 2012

Are people still talking about squad makeup for delta? That instance was designed for 9x gear. With gear these days a lot of people can practically solo it. The hardest part about RB is getting everyone inside without a DC glitch.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · August 2012

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Are people still talking about squad makeup for delta? That instance was designed for 9x gear. With gear these days a lot of people can practically solo it. The hardest part about RB is getting everyone inside without a DC glitch.

Nah i think it's just about if mystic are AoE DD or not.

Crescendia - Harshlands · August 2012

darksynn wrote: »

I'm on the Raging tide server and as Mystic myself I feel sorta insulted by this remark that was made on World Chat, but yet it makes me wonder if there is some hint of truth to it. This comment apparently relates to Delta and that like a Veno, Mystics make the team go slow, and because our AOEs require 2 sparks we shouldn't consider ourselves AOE DDs .

I mean I know we have :-

The Storm Mistress's Aoe
The Craglord's Aoe
The Mystic's Ticket
The Mystic's Gale Force

But given the fact our Aoes require any amount of Sparks , doesn't Cloud Eruption and the Appo Chi pots remedy that?

Or is it that Seekers, Wizards and Archers should be considered AOE DDs because they have those channeling AOE spells.?

Honestly, its the squads ignorance for thinking that Mystics cant be an Aoe DD. We have Cragglord, Gale force, Thicket, and storm mistress. And dont forget about beffudling creeper's debuffing that can aid in damage.

The storm mistress and gale force are our main aoe's because gale has a short cooldown and mistress can be resummoned to reset the cooldown on the aoe skill, which is as close as it get to being a continuous aoe. Being demon and having lvl 11 mistress, I get some of that chi back to help with spamming chi skills. Atleast that's how it was when I last played my mystic in RB.

I do agree with Lemur about stun waves, but thats besides the point. Being a mystic is supposed to be versatile and you shouldn't do the same thing for different situations...

Maybe the problem is that there are too many lazy mystics >_>

MrMelvin - Heavens Tear · August 2012

Crescendia - Harshlands wrote: »

Maybe the problem is that there are too many lazy mystics >_>

Maybe not just lazy Mystics, but also lazy other classes also. They don't seem to take the time to learn or notice what a Mystic can do, they just focus on the negatives like the seal from Thicket and Gale Force because it makes them actually have to move for 2 seconds. Its amazing how many times I hear "I've never partied with a Mystic, this should be interesting"

I feel Mystics would be more appreciated if they were introduced before Tideborns.

thumbs · August 2012

MrMelvin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Assuming this is not spawn point run:
-Summon Chihyu while mobs are being rounded up
-Leech
-Rapid Growth
-Gale Force when grouped - Crit like crazy (46% crit rate when I do this)
and if you manage to hit any archer mobs outside of continuous AoE area you have 100% more pdef to 'tank' them.

Is that better than Befuddling Creeper, Gale Force, Mistress, and Thicket (4 aoes)?

Archer mob dmg in RB is a joke and they die fast which is why it further bothers me to see Assassins and BMs out there 1-1 them instead of SS/ER/HF/GS the melees piled up on the wiz, and letting someone else pull the archers into AoE.

Crescendia - Harshlands wrote: »

And dont forget about beffudling creeper's debuffing that can aid in damage.

And don't forget Befuddling Creeper's Lysing:

"Befuddling Creeper's Lysing deals moderate damage"

MrMelvin - Heavens Tear · August 2012

thumbs wrote: »

Is that better than Befuddling Creeper, Gale Force, Mistress, and Thicket (4 aoes)?

I never said it was better but it is an alternative method to use for players without Lucky Break if they wanted to simulate the effect or don't have the pdef to keep themselves alive, remember not everyone goes mad on gear, looking by the state of some mystics gears on HT it makes me sad.

I don't do it often myself but why always stick to one method? It bores me doing that all the time if I'm honest, plus the majority of mobs are dead/ready to die with 1 more hit after I've done this so why waste 2 sparks using thicket?

Empu - Sanctuary · August 2012

Just my 2 cents as a non-mystic, since most here seem to be mystics saying how great their class is (nothing bad about that ofc b:laugh ).

I for one, in the case of recruiting random DD for an aoe-type instance like delta based on their class, would be hesitent to invite the mystic. Tbh, I'd be more likely to get 1 as healer as I got very good experience with mystics healing. But as aoe DD, not really. There is more too it then just "the class has X aoe skills, that do Y damage". I think the best example of that is seekers being wanted over wizards, while disco outdamages blender with equivalent gears.

Besides the number of skills, I think the range and the affects are important. Unfortunately, the pets ranges seem to be rather small (small is below 12m for me). They will never include melee + all/part of the ranged mobs. This is also a big flaw of the sin class as aoe DD. Not enough range to include all = multiply the time needed to kill. For their own aoe, mainly gale force, the range is great. However, the effect is plain annoying for the squad. I also give an importance to continuous aoe, but only in the case of long aoe cause of high hp/def mobs which is rather rare these days.

So nope, I wouldn't really qualify the class as an aoe DD. That doesn't mean I don't want them in a squad for something like delta : the class is very versatile and will be usefull to have in squad. But it would mean that I won't easily get a 2nd one of that class in squad. A bit like with a sin or a bm : 1 is very usefull, the 2nd will be way less usefull as the squad already has the buff and the amp they can provide. For a "real" aoe DD, getting a 2nd of the same class wouldn't bother me.

Ofc, if everyone was a great player with good gear and I knew them all personal, who cares what classes to fill squad with. I don't really see mystics as aoe DD, their gale force is a pain in my behind especially when on barb/seeker. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the class in my squad. It doesn't make the class bad just because there is a point where they don't excel.

Crescendia - Harshlands · August 2012

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just my 2 cents as a non-mystic, since most here seem to be mystics saying how great their class is (nothing bad about that ofc b:laugh ).

I for one, in the case of recruiting random DD for an aoe-type instance like delta based on their class, would be hesitent to invite the mystic. Tbh, I'd be more likely to get 1 as healer as I got very good experience with mystics healing. But as aoe DD, not really. There is more too it then just "the class has X aoe skills, that do Y damage". I think the best example of that is seekers being wanted over wizards, while disco outdamages blender with equivalent gears.

Besides the number of skills, I think the range and the affects are important. Unfortunately, the pets ranges seem to be rather small (small is below 12m for me). They will never include melee + all/part of the ranged mobs. This is also a big flaw of the sin class as aoe DD. Not enough range to include all = multiply the time needed to kill. For their own aoe, mainly gale force, the range is great. However, the effect is plain annoying for the squad. I also give an importance to continuous aoe, but only in the case of long aoe cause of high hp/def mobs which is rather rare these days.

So nope, I wouldn't really qualify the class as an aoe DD. That doesn't mean I don't want them in a squad for something like delta : the class is very versatile and will be usefull to have in squad. But it would mean that I won't easily get a 2nd one of that class in squad. A bit like with a sin or a bm : 1 is very usefull, the 2nd will be way less usefull as the squad already has the buff and the amp they can provide. For a "real" aoe DD, getting a 2nd of the same class wouldn't bother me.

Ofc, if everyone was a great player with good gear and I knew them all personal, who cares what classes to fill squad with. I don't really see mystics as aoe DD, their gale force is a pain in my behind especially when on barb/seeker. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the class in my squad. It doesn't make the class bad just because there is a point where they don't excel.

Maybe a mystic cannot be the main DD in RB if averagely geared, but it can be a decent secondary DD if you have a good primary DD in the squad.

You say you play a barb/seeker in RB right? If you are complaining that the pets aoe isn't big enough to hit all the mobs then it's possible you just aren't gathering the mobs in an efficient way?

If you also say that the seal is annoying then the problem can be a couple of things:

- Mystic is doing gale force too early before the BM can stun.
- Mystic is spamming gale force while there is DD that cant fully kill them during cooldown.
- BM isn't stunning at all.

Just a few scenarios I can think of. I've always tried to be careful when coordinating attacks with other classes.

Either way, sounds like the squads where u've had mystics DDing are non-efficient because of the mystic themself, the primary DD, the BM, the barb or some other in the squad.

Empu - Sanctuary · August 2012

@Crescendia : self quote ftw

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ofc, if everyone was a great player with good gear and I knew them all personal, who cares what classes to fill squad with.

Cause that is all you say : It requires perfect squad coordination (to get all mobs in the radius of the smallest aoe, which is the 5m one of craglord I believe) with specific squad setup (mainly a bm being a must in squad) on specific mobs (not all mobs can be stunned), with above average gear (to kill everything before end of stun so runners can't spread out) and a decently skilled mystic, for that mystic to be as efficient as a wizard/archer/seeker that just need +/- 3 buttons in a squad that can be filled with complete nubcakes. If squad is so pro as you pretend them to be, no wiz would be using disco and no seeker would waste sparks on blender: a bids/ms and gemini would do.

Exactly my point, ty for clearing it out. All I see is "in perfect conditions, mystics have good aoe power". I don't consider mystics as aoe DD, and don't think they have to be really. Like I said before, I find mystics a great addition to a squad for many reasons other then aoe or even 1 target DD. If ppl don't want you in squad, their loss. But I don't see why so many mystics feel the need to pretend to be better healers then clerics, better DD then psychics, better aoe DD then wiz and have better "pets" then venos. Seems the class is getting the sin-complex b:surrender

Mystics are not considered AOE DDs ? True or Igonrance ?

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