Question for All the casters out there

I_skateboard - Harshlands
I_skateboard - Harshlands Posts: 156 Arc User
edited August 2012 in General Discussion
I have been doing about 3-5 Caster nirvana everyday and sometimes when a cleric has r9 or some good *** weapon, they suddenly go into the category of being a DD. if anyone else has noticed this? What weapon and minimal refinement would you say a cleric can DD and go into metal mode.

Edit: I should have went into detail more. I mean, they cleric "Becomes a DD' then they invte 2 other clerics. but Nvm.

Uhh guys, listen to the question please lol. Im not asking for the squad consent because a dumb cleric would go without asking. lol ><

This question is pointless but i was just curious.
Post edited by I_skateboard - Harshlands on
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Comments

  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Only bad clerics go metal mage mode without at least asking the other cleric if it's okay with them.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    SylenThunder - Twilight Temple Posts: 7,908
    edited August 2012
    Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Only bad clerics go metal mage mode without at least asking the other cleric if it's okay with them.

    ^^This

    You'll only catch me in Metal mage mode if...
    A. No one needs heals and the squad agrees that it's OK.
    B. There is another cleric and we've discussed it.
    C. I'm alone.

    This should be the standard for ANY cleric. Unfortunately, we have quite a large number of people that don't have a ****ing clue about how to play their class.

    Thanks PWE.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Unfortunately on HL it's full of metal mage DD Rank 8 and Rank 9, on all cleric Rank 9 i saw in caster only 2 was healing, it's the same in TW, more a cleric get a powerful weapon more he DD and forgot that he's suppose to be a healer first.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    b:dirty "I **** rainbows and love everyone"-Longknife b:cute
  • Burnout - Harshlands
    Burnout - Harshlands Posts: 2,585 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Personally it kinda annoys me when a cleric does nothing but heal in Nirv. The bosses there attack very infrequently and a cleric can DD at least 50% of the time.

    Never understood why clerics go into BB right at the start of the 3rd boss and just sit there either...he doesn't do the big aoe until the fight is ~70% done, so the cleric is basically chewing through mana healing minimal amounts of damage for the entire fight.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    I replied to the 7th topic on the 1st page of mystic forums, and got reported for necro. Plz save mystic forums.
  • Euthymius - Heavens Tear
    Euthymius - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,162 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Sometimes when I end up in squads with three+ Clerics, one or two will discuss who'll end up Violet Dancing. It usually doesnt become a big issue about multiple VD users unless one of them can't solo-heal for whatever reason.
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »
    Unfortunately on HL it's full of metal mage DD Rank 8 and Rank 9, on all cleric Rank 9 i saw in caster only 2 was healing, it's the same in TW, more a cleric get a powerful weapon more he DD and forgot that he's suppose to be a healer first.

    Sad but true. Ive met quite a few R9/High Refined R8s who prioritize DDing over support when the latter is lacking...
    Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »
    Never understood why clerics go into BB right at the start of the 3rd boss and just sit there either...he doesn't do the big aoe until the fight is ~70% done, so the cleric is basically chewing through mana healing minimal amounts of damage for the entire fight.

    ...Are you speaking of regular Nirvana? Because I'm pretty sure Vampiric Sovereign becomes a pain in the flank fairly early with Soundboom/Fatemeddlers unless your party can slice through her HP really quickly.
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  • TCHP - Lost City
    TCHP - Lost City Posts: 577 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Only bad clerics go metal mage mode without at least asking the other cleric if it's okay with them.

    LMAO, I do this all the time alone and no one has died so far. Maybe you should ask why the tanker can't survived a few sec alone.

    It's not like if your alone in a team has a cleric that you can't have some fun. People just don't know what a cleric can do.

    3 spark, IH 2 or 3 time tanker, go to VD do damage, use some shield on tanker, shift back , etc...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »
    Personally it kinda annoys me when a cleric does nothing but heal in Nirv. The bosses there attack very infrequently and a cleric can DD at least 50% of the time.

    Never understood why clerics go into BB right at the start of the 3rd boss and just sit there either...he doesn't do the big aoe until the fight is ~70% done, so the cleric is basically chewing through mana healing minimal amounts of damage for the entire fight.

    I prefer a cleric who over heal to a cleric who DD beside heal and make people die, ofc i would prefer a cleric that can heal, debuff and DD, but there's not many cleric that can do that...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    b:dirty "I **** rainbows and love everyone"-Longknife b:cute
  • thumbs
    thumbs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »
    Never understood why clerics go into BB right at the start of the 3rd boss and just sit there either...he doesn't do the big aoe until the fight is ~70% done, so the cleric is basically chewing through mana healing minimal amounts of damage for the entire fight.

    I just lol to myself on occasions like that; like watching chromaspammers.
  • LividLemur - Dreamweaver
    LividLemur - Dreamweaver Posts: 126 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    multi-cleric caster squads are great fun, because that means people are gonna die. People other than me, so idc

    let em have their fun, they've earned it
  • dog10240
    dog10240 Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    They should be rolling a wizard if they wanna DD and not heal. Like a non-intended class trying to be APS...
  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    LividLemur - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    multi-cleric caster squads are great fun, because that means people are gonna die. People other than me, so idc

    let em have their fun, they've earned it

    It's why i stopped play wizz and reroll mystic. xD
    dog10240 wrote: »
    They should be rolling a wizard if they wanna DD and not heal. Like a non-intended class trying to be APS...

    Try to tell them that when PWI give them VD.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    b:dirty "I **** rainbows and love everyone"-Longknife b:cute
  • Divine_Hands - Sanctuary
    Divine_Hands - Sanctuary Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I_skateboard - Harshlands wrote: »
    Loads of ****

    You remind me those idiots that used to yell at my veno to only spam heal pet in TT, and do nothing else, cause Venos dmg was "poor anyway". I wish those idiots could face a R9 +12 Veno and shut their mouths after being one shot.

    Demon Clerics are powerful damage dealers, the metal debuff and ele resistance debuff stack just nice on top of each other for a overall nice DMG. I have seen a Cleric keep permanently aggro over a R9 +12 wizard in caster nirvana, that alone should tell you that clerics as DDers are viable.

    Obviously if there are more than one cleric in squad the one with the better weapon should attack to make the run faster, and yes having a good weapon is good indicative that you are able to DEAL nice DAMAGE, hence being a decent/good DDer at 101+ is gear based not class based, even if some magic classes are able to deal more damage at the same refines, in the real game everyone has different refine level.

    Also stop blaming the cleric that you died, if you died is your own fault, use a potion or a tree of protection or pangu or ironguard or refine your gear better, when Im on my wizard I dont watch my hp pool drop to near 0 before I use those, EVEN if a cleric is healing me.
  • KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear
    KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,461 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Clerics just spam heals / pop BB out of laziness or they busy fapping to their smexy pixels to do much else :O

    All joking aside, though a cleric isn't a "true" DD when they unlock UVD which is A LOT better then VD they can do some pretty decent damage, that and when they stack it on with their debuffs I can say I'd have no problem with having a cleric in "metal mage" mode as long as there is at least another primary healing class (anotehr cleric/mystic) who doesn't mind healing and knowing that they may have to leave "metal mage" mode to revive or help heal etc.
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  • Baby_pho - Heavens Tear
    Baby_pho - Heavens Tear Posts: 636 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    there are clerics with tt99 weap on ht that refuse to heal or metal mode(if they dont heal. I dont mind doing the heal but at least be a little more useful). when an r9/g16 nv cleric's in the squad. ._.'
  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I_skateboard - Harshlands wrote: »
    I have been doing about 3-5 Caster nirvana everyday and sometimes when a cleric has r9 or some good *** weapon, they suddenly go into the category of being a DD. if anyone else has noticed this? What weapon and minimal refinement would you say a cleric can DD and go into metal mode.

    Edit: I should have went into detail more. I mean, they cleric "Becomes a DD' then they invte 2 other clerics. but Nvm.

    Uhh guys, listen to the question please lol. Im not asking for the squad consent because a dumb cleric would go without asking. lol ><

    This question is pointless but i was just curious.

    Its standard procedure that weakest cleric clerics... there really shouldn't be any need for discussion. It is also standard procedure for the strongest DD to never trust an unknown cleric.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • TCHP - Lost City
    TCHP - Lost City Posts: 577 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    LMAO even more again, people complain that cleric use VD in nv... The reason I Use VD is to use mark of weakness and give the other caster 15% more chance at crit. Other then that VD is a pvp skill and do very low inc damage on mob ( like 50 dam per hit more, 500 if your lucky). Has for UVD I don't expect to see a really bigger damage. Maybe 2x or 3x on mob since it's a pvp skill after all.

    Also I usualy shift in VD before I get to the next boss. So I start debuff and inc crit on it. then switch to healing mode.

    b:sad geez, if you can't handle a few hit in nv, don't tank. I don't have the best gear around, just R8+5 whit G7-8-9 gem and mold. and I still can take at least 5 to 10 hit... before I need healing... what the hell.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • thumbs
    thumbs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    TCHP - Lost City wrote: »
    Other then that VD is a pvp skill and do very low inc damage on mob ( like 50 dam per hit more, 500 if your lucky).

    Ultra-Violet as mentioned is considerably better. It consistently makes a difference in hits per kill when doing Morai dailies for me which eliminates any MP recovery method, wasted time healing, and wasted time DD'ing.
    Has for UVD I don't expect to see a really bigger damage. Maybe 2x or 3x on mob since it's a pvp skill after all.

    Cite source on it being PvP skill. I'm pve only and I use it daily outside of caster. I have Mark of Weakness but haven't gotten around to using it yet.
    b:sad geez, if you can't handle a few hit in nv, don't tank. I don't have the best gear around, just R8+5 whit G7-8-9 gem and mold. and I still can take at least 5 to 10 hit... before I need healing... what the hell.

    Agreed. There's too many people scabbing off others. They're in Caster daily making 10's of millions but only upgrade their caster to the minimum they have to to get in the most common random squads. I'm happy to see others that are saying NTY to future runs with them. Funny if you look at their equips they often have 3.3 fliers, and CS only fashion.
  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    TCHP - Lost City wrote: »
    I don't have the best gear around, just R8+5 whit G7-8-9 gem and mold. and I still can take at least 5 to 10 hit... before I need healing... what the hell.

    LOL... +5 r8 taking 10 hits without heals. Maybe you should mention that you are also charmed or am using pots.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • Tsukyini - Raging Tide
    Tsukyini - Raging Tide Posts: 1,766 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    dog10240 wrote: »
    They should be rolling a wizard if they wanna DD and not heal. Like a non-intended class trying to be APS...

    But elves are prettier and they get wings! Wings! Not flying surfboards.

    So it's like being a dark angel running around throwing metal to the face.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Accalica - Heavens Tear
    Accalica - Heavens Tear Posts: 181 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Funny stuff...I used to run caster atleast 5-6 times a day for about 7 months and I've notice this cleric vs cleric aggro alot to the point where I rather solo heal the run without the annoying 'I don't wanna heal, u heal!' attitude.

    I'm r9 myself and I've had r8 +6 clerics debate me wheter I should be first healer or secondary (without ever mentioning I won't help healing they start harassing my PM channel). They simply assume I'm another plvld r9 noob who knows jacksh1t about my class. Those drive me to the point where I wanna slam a pan in their head and tell them to grow some game knowledge before questioning people that they don't know. Yet another reason why I simply been off caster nirv for the past month. Lol.

    VD...that makes me laugh out loud when people consider good in instances like that, maybe to cast mark of weakness..but that's also about it. The extra amound of damage you do? Might save you 10 sec time on the boss overall but also removes 99% (due to pious blessing, yay for that **** skill!) of the squads survivability chances if the other cleric fcks up or simply can't be trusted.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ~ Suspended on Silverwings ~
  • thumbs
    thumbs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I use my cleric as an opener. I don't know why clerics would want to dd there. My veno or mystic gets through with a good squad without using pots. Cleric can't get through it w/o pots. Veno or Mystic is also much better DD and survival. Wouldn't mention this if it weren't for a **** ton of clerics already wanting in on Caster.
  • shashahah
    shashahah Posts: 323 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Divine_Hands - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I have seen a Cleric keep permanently aggro over a R9 +12 wizard in caster nirvana, that alone should tell you that clerics as DDers are viable.

    if the cleric has the taunts u get when starting the instance, its likely to keep aggro against a +12 r9 wiz
    also when the wiz aint sparking and just lazy macros dding

    BUT if both cleric and wiz r sparking, theres no way cleric keeps aggro. i got both cleric and wiz myself, and the cleric aint dealing anywhere close the dmg the wiz does, even tho wiz got lv10 skills and cleric all demon



    regarding ur question...
    cleric is healer in the first place
    even if cleric is the only r9 in squad, he has to heal b4 doing w/e, and keep heals up
    theres no point of clerics going ego-mode and wipe the squad just to have the benefit of dding him/herself

    if a cleric considers himself dd, he shouldve picked some other class, because no matter how many DoTs u have in ur gear, ANY of the other classes will always deal more damage, no matter what
    a cleric is a healer b4 everything else, never forget that
  • thumbs
    thumbs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    There are some very sucky wiz's out there that my cleric way out dd's.
  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    thumbs wrote: »
    There are some very sucky wiz's out there that my cleric way out dd's.

    Oh that yea, some people say mystic damage suck but majority of the time i have the aggro on the wizz and psy... even sometime wizz R9 so i dunno what they doing but i'll be humilited to be a R9 wizz with someone R8 have aggro on me. xD
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    b:dirty "I **** rainbows and love everyone"-Longknife b:cute
  • thumbs
    thumbs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »
    Oh that yea, some people say mystic damage suck but majority of the time i have the aggro on the wizz and psy... even sometime wizz R9 so i dunno what they doing but i'll be humilited to be a R9 wizz with someone R8 have aggro on me. xD

    Aggro doesn't equal most dmg. A large part of Mystic's dmg in caster is through Mistress (distributed aggro). Aggro is also generated by debuffs, and control skills.

    Idiots will look at how hard a wiz can possibly hit and assume it equates to dps ignoring avg ch/cast times. Casters just don't fall into increments like 2.0, 3.33, 4.0, and 5.0.

    I tried to correct people a long time ago that thought they were getting aggro because Undine Strike gave them more dmg. I said it was a waste of MP to do when you're the only one hitting water/earth/fire; the dmg difference isn't significant. -it's the debuff causing the aggro gain. They're idiotic response was; yeah because it helps do more dmg! I bet the losers are playing sins mostly now. -lol.
  • Narcillatrix - Dreamweaver
    Narcillatrix - Dreamweaver Posts: 461 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Oh the cleric dds. If it's been discussed I don't mind a cleric DDing. But there's some people I just want to facepalm and shake my head at.

    For example;
    Was in an AEU squad that was almost done forming the other day. So far we only had one cleric in squad, who was R9. It took us about 45 minutes to find us a second cleric to come with us (doesn't normally take that long, but it was at kind of a weird time very late in the day). We were like finally! Now we just had to find one last dd since one we had had to leave from waiting so long. Then Mr R9 cleric had the nerve and arrogance to demand that we find ANOTHER cleric. Yes, a third cleric because he wanted to DD the entire thing....Um...Excuse me...It just took us almost an hour to find a second cleric, but now you want us to look for ANOTHER one just because you got your head so far up your *** and want to DD and not your primary job of healing?

    I'm sorry but....wtf?
    In the end we couldn't find a third cleric, nor a mystic to join us. So Mr. R9 ragequit the squad because God forbid he was going to have to heal...Seriously...
    I've squaded with my fair share of R9 clerics who were downright awesome, but he was just...ugh....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Yes a cleric can have a great damage, but it's not his job to DD, heals are based on the magic attack so ofc the magic attack of cleric is good.

    Yes i can DD like a truck on my cleric, but i'm enough smart to use my ''power'' on my heal to keep my squad alive, beside do a DD fight with a wizz and let die people to show off.

    The point is not to say that cleric is good DD or not vs other class, yes cleric DD more than many other caster class, but it's not his job, if people want to be a main DD, cleric is not the good class for it.

    When people take a cleric in a squad they don't care if he is R8 or R9, they take a cleric in squad cause they want to be heal.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    b:dirty "I **** rainbows and love everyone"-Longknife b:cute
  • Azizsixer - Raging Tide
    Azizsixer - Raging Tide Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Tsukyini - Raging Tide wrote: »
    But elves are prettier and they get wings! Wings! Not flying surfboards.

    So it's like being a dark angel running around throwing metal to the face.

    I lol'd so hard reading this!

    Seriously though its not tht big a deal healing AND dd'ing in casters or pretty much anything in pwi. I'm not even a dedicated cleric and i can heal + dd effectively in most situations.

    If you're in a caster sqd, and are tanking at least use pots if a heal is late or the cleric gets canceled. Because honestly, ppl expect you to heal every bit of dmg they get.

    Then again, ppl rarely die in any caster sqd I'm in unless they're just crappy and can't use a pot when the boss aoe slows chan/cancels bb and sees me trying to purify myself/heal.
  • thumbs
    thumbs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    ~95% of clerics heal way too often, and ~95% of non self healing players lean too much on them. There's also been many times where the cleric fails and or dies, and I do the job on Mystic. Rarely is a Mystic expected to heal like a cleric is.

    Used to say this quite often, but if you're building a squad: don't ask for class. Ask for the job you need filled (healer, dd, or tank). -That gives you the ability to expect something from them, and gets you a broader range of possibilities.
  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    thumbs wrote: »
    ~95% of clerics heal way too often

    Come on HL, power lvl a toon, go caster, you will rage quit crying after a week saying that HL cleric are metal mage and don't heal.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    b:dirty "I **** rainbows and love everyone"-Longknife b:cute

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