BP for archers
Comments
-
That is correct, however I can't stop laughing at the DPS you will do with claw/fist build compared to the bow build, because obviously the bow will out DD the fists by far even with the APS gap between them.KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »Archers don't need BP. No class really needs BP it further prevents teamplay which a MMO isn't supposed to be. And the rest of this thread is trolls trying to out troll each other? If they want to be fist/claw who cares? If they aren't "pure" who cares? Let people play how they want. /rant
And btw it is quite possible to do so.
Example
Bow usage.
http://www.pwcalc.com/961375fb364722af
Fist/Claw usage.
http://www.pwcalc.com/d9a233d18d8e690b
Did I do it right? No Tome Swapping. "Pure" as you say. And no Ring Enrgavements.
I think the entire point in this thread is people constantly asking for BP for archers, but they are NOT melee class.
Yes, you can use fist if you want to solo something, that's fine. But don't expect yourself to be tanking anything when you're with a sin or bm, or heck even a barb when you're using fists/claws.
And don't give me that "yeah but I still stole aggro from sin <name> and/or bm <name> with this so lol" bull, like i've had from a lot of archers with this discussion before, not a single archer with claws has gotten aggro from me since I don't know when because they never did.
Fist/claw archers dps is terrible and people won't recognize it is because of god knows what reason.
Yes your toon builds are pure dex and capable of using claws, you have proven that point.
Besides the fact that these builds will cost someone a fortune to obtain and the usefulness of doing actually so since the bow will out DD the fist build by far.
Bottomline, archers are archers, and last time I checked that means you use a bow, you have bow mastery for a reason.
I always say the exact same thing about claw sins, that's even worse in my opinion than fist/claw archers, sins have dagger devotion for a reason and that reason is not to increase the damage you deal with claws.Soon™
Well, maybe later, semi-retired.0 -
DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »That is correct, however I can't stop laughing at the DPS you will do with claw/fist build compared to the bow build, because obviously the bow will out DD the fists by far even with the APS gap between them.
I think the entire point in this thread is people constantly asking for BP for archers, but they are NOT melee class.
Yes, you can use fist if you want to solo something, that's fine. But don't expect yourself to be tanking anything when you're with a sin or bm, or heck even a barb when you're using fists/claws.
And don't give me that "yeah but I still stole aggro from sin <name> and/or bm <name> with this so lol" bull, like i've had from a lot of archers with this discussion before, not a single archer with claws has gotten aggro from me since I don't know when because they never did.
Fist/claw archers dps is terrible and people won't recognize it is because of god knows what reason.
Yes your toon builds are pure dex and capable of using claws, you have proven that point.
Besides the fact that these builds will cost someone a fortune to obtain and the usefulness of doing actually so since the bow will out DD the fist build by far.
Bottomline, archers are archers, and last time I checked that means you use a bow, you have bow mastery for a reason.
I always say the exact same thing about claw sins, that's even worse in my opinion than fist/claw archers, sins have dagger devotion for a reason and that reason is not to increase the damage you deal with claws.
Let's just look at pve since fist/claw archers are obviously out of questions for pvp/tw.
Yes, archer is meant to use bow, so he has his main gears as pure dex.
However, 'the bow will out DD the fist build by far' is not entirely correct. Personally, in DW, I cant see how you jump up to the top 3 in celestial tiger event using bow only. Unless all those aps archers do not participate in the event that week.
Within a single spark or non spark at all, bow archer can out DD fist/claw archer. However, perma spark allow the fist/claw build to gain back the loss and starting to shine starting from the 2nd or 3rd spark. Thus, at bosses, it allows fist/claw build to do MUCH more damage. Not to mention the abitity to deal melee damage since bow damage get halved if monsters/bosses get close to you, or that boss is just a @!&^#%! if the ranger tanks.
For someone who cant afford rerolling a sin and wanna stick with their only archer, fist/claw build is extremely useful to farm. Getting the +str gears is much cheaper than getting R8 + G13 (at least) for sin. Sure, archer will do less damage, but that gives them access to all those 'aps nirvana runs' (if ppl ever care to take an archer anymore).0 -
And I stopped reading there.DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »That is correct, however I can't stop laughing at the DPS you will do with claw/fist build compared to the bow build, because obviously the bow will out DD the fists by far even with the APS gap between them.
1: Turn on spark
2: Realize that the claw setup can STAY that way indefinitely, has a proc on weapon to increase damage dealt/heal, and that neither calc has refines, shards, buffs, etc.
Yes R9 is gonna be better for DPH by far.... and in a situation where a boss dies fast enough, R9 will have that higher initial damage. However claws are considered viable by many of the most well-known archers for a reason. If you're too ignorant/stubborn/etc to recognize it and move on then that's your problem but don't try to talk down to the rest of us with that same flawed logic and reasoning.0 -
And I stopped reading there.
1: Turn on spark
2: Realize that the claw setup can STAY that way indefinitely, has a proc on weapon to increase damage dealt/heal, and that neither calc has refines, shards, buffs, etc.
Yes R9 is gonna be better for DPH by far.... and in a situation where a boss dies fast enough, R9 will have that higher initial damage. However claws are considered viable by many of the most well-known archers for a reason. If you're too ignorant/stubborn/etc to recognize it and move on then that's your problem but don't try to talk down to the rest of us with that same flawed logic and reasoning.
Single spark, no.
Constant spark, yes.
How many times will an archer have to spark during instance x run with a decent squad?
Maybe once. What's the gain of fists/claws then?
Also IF we really have to take all our options into account then here's another "flawed" logic for you:
Can an archer use genie skills to get chi back in time to spark again? Yes.
Can you use apoth to get your chi back? Yes.
Should you need more than 2 sparks in a run with these setups? No.
The above stated because if you can afford 2 sets of gears like that, you can easily afford an end game genie and a **** ton of apoth of that price as well.
How is my logic and reasoning flawed when taking everything in account, please do tell me.
Never the less this is not what this thread was about, it was about another archer asking for BP, simple answer is no because you're an archer, use a bow it's what an ARCHER is supposed to be using, because it's not a frontline fighting class.Soon™
Well, maybe later, semi-retired.0 -
Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »Roll a class that can actually get BP then. Paint on a ranged class like an archer is just broken.
BP broke the game anyway, what hell difference does it make now? Veno's should get it too, they are melee in fox form.0 -
DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »Single spark, no.
Constant spark, yes.
How many times will an archer have to spark during instance x run with a decent squad?
Maybe once. What's the gain of fists/claws then?
Also IF we really have to take all our options into account then here's another "flawed" logic for you:
Can an archer use genie skills to get chi back in time to spark again? Yes.
Can you use apoth to get your chi back? Yes.
Should you need more than 2 sparks in a run with these setups? No.
The above stated because if you can afford 2 sets of gears like that, you can easily afford an end game genie and a **** ton of apoth of that price as well.
How is my logic and reasoning flawed when taking everything in account, please do tell me.
Never the less this is not what this thread was about, it was about another archer asking for BP, simple answer is no because you're an archer, use a bow it's what an ARCHER is supposed to be using, because it's not a frontline fighting class.
Gimme a way to kill celestial tiger bosses in 1 spark please.
Genie? no thanks, I use it to sparm frenzy instead with my fists/claws.
Apoth? what's its cool down? perma spark with bow 4-5 times in a row? I'll let you pro do it, I'll pass.
And if boss get close to you, Im sure 1/2 damage of sparked bow cant compare with full damage of sparked fists/claws.
If you still wanna prove that you're right, make an archer and use bow ONLY and get 1st rank in Celestial Tiger Event, then I'll admit I'm wrong.
Back to BP topic, roll a sin. Wait, is that what most archers have been doing? b:shutup0 -
IAero - Dreamweaver wrote: »Let's just look at pve since fist/claw archers are obviously out of questions for pvp/tw.
Yes, archer is meant to use bow, so he has his main gears as pure dex.
However, 'the bow will out DD the fist build by far' is not entirely correct. Personally, in DW, I cant see how you jump up to the top 3 in celestial tiger event using bow only. Unless all those aps archers do not participate in the event that week.
Within a single spark or non spark at all, bow archer can out DD fist/claw archer. However, perma spark allow the fist/claw build to gain back the loss and starting to shine starting from the 2nd or 3rd spark. Thus, at bosses, it allows fist/claw build to do MUCH more damage. Not to mention the abitity to deal melee damage since bow damage get halved if monsters/bosses get close to you, or that boss is just a @!&^#%! if the ranger tanks.
For someone who cant afford rerolling a sin and wanna stick with their only archer, fist/claw build is extremely useful to farm. Getting the +str gears is much cheaper than getting R8 + G13 (at least) for sin. Sure, archer will do less damage, but that gives them access to all those 'aps nirvana runs' (if ppl ever care to take an archer anymore).IAero - Dreamweaver wrote: »Gimme a way to kill celestial tiger bosses in 1 spark please.
Genie? no thanks, I use it to sparm frenzy instead with my fists/claws.
Apoth? what's its cool down? perma spark with bow 4-5 times in a row? I'll let you pro do it, I'll pass.
And if boss get close to you, Im sure 1/2 damage of sparked bow cant compare with full damage of sparked fists/claws.
If you still wanna prove that you're right, make an archer and use bow ONLY and get 1st rank in Celestial Tiger Event, then I'll admit I'm wrong.
Back to BP topic, roll a sin. Wait, is that what most archers have been doing? b:shutup
Not to burst a bubble but I've gotten top 3 a few times with purely a bow. You can get triple sparks about 4 times without any real effort tbh.
Spark / Cloud / Spark / Awaken / Spark / White Tea & Li Tech / Spark.
After you could bring a cleric alt into squad to redball since contribution isn't split on the boss(That I've seen anyways.) And then use your other genie skills.
But I won't disagree that aps archers would win in the tiger event, mostly because they will have a spark running when some BM rolls a HF out for them.
But back on topic get rid of BP all-together.[SIGPIC]http://i48.tinypic.com/2r61kw3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Ty Fon for the Siggy
The rare and exotic Sage Archer of HT. b:cute0 -
Ok seriously who does this unce person think he/she is? I'd hate to be a fledgling archer asking him/her for advice, I'd much rather ask Asterelle orKawaii, I wouldn't want to have my mind ***** then quit the game because i wanted toplay an archer the way i want to and not so called 'pure' like he/she so states it is.0
-
Bashmaster - Raging Tide wrote: »Ok seriously who does this unce person think he/she is? I'd hate to be a fledgling archer asking him/her for advice, I'd much rather ask Asterelle orKawaii, I wouldn't want to have my mind ***** then quit the game because i wanted toplay an archer the way i want to and not so called 'pure' like he/she so states it is.
That's what the archer subforum is for b:bye
I'm sticking to my point b:bye everyone complains about a broken game due to aps and bloodpaint, yet the same classes want aps and bloodpaint b:byeSoon™
Well, maybe later, semi-retired.0 -
Take everything with a grain of salt. Smile nod and pretend you care. Usually works for me. :PBashmaster - Raging Tide wrote: »Ok seriously who does this unce person think he/she is? I'd hate to be a fledgling archer asking him/her for advice, I'd much rather ask Asterelle orKawaii, I wouldn't want to have my mind ***** then quit the game because i wanted toplay an archer the way i want to and not so called 'pure' like he/she so states it is.DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »That's what the archer subforum is for b:bye
I'm sticking to my point b:bye everyone complains about a broken game due to aps and bloodpaint, yet the same classes want aps and bloodpaint b:bye
Well aps didn't ruin it directly. It was the other factors combined with it that did. Blood paint being one of them. "To each their own" the farmer said as he kissed his cow. or something like that. It's their choice and not all of them are hypocrites though.[SIGPIC]http://i48.tinypic.com/2r61kw3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Ty Fon for the Siggy
The rare and exotic Sage Archer of HT. b:cute0 -
DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »That is correct, however I can't stop laughing at the DPS you will do with claw/fist build compared to the bow build, because obviously the bow will out DD the fists by far even with the APS gap between them.
This is quite wrong. I know when I run TT, on DrAgOOnZ archer, killing bosses is much faster with fist than bow. I also know that I use bow for mobs, until they get to close, then I use fists.0 -
Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »This is quite wrong. I know when I run TT, on DrAgOOnZ archer, killing bosses is much faster with fist than bow. I also know that I use bow for mobs, until they get to close, then I use fists.
I think maybe he was referring to a perfect scenario. In most cases where the boss dies in 1-2 sparks in a group setting such as BH the bow will always outshine fists. Anything exceeding 3-4 sparks is where the fist can start out DPSing the bow. Basicly its purely situational.
Short Fights = Bow wins in DPS.
Long Fights = Fists/Claws wins in DPS because of perma spark.[SIGPIC]http://i48.tinypic.com/2r61kw3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Ty Fon for the Siggy
The rare and exotic Sage Archer of HT. b:cute0 -
I say we **** with archers and give them reverse BP. It only works when they use a bow from range.....
b:avoidBladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »I say we **** with archers and give them reverse BP. It only works when they use a bow from range.....
b:avoid
Sure..... And while we're at it lets allow seekers to use claws/fists and r9 2nd cast tokens for 100g each a 10 pack for 900g[SIGPIC]http://i48.tinypic.com/2r61kw3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Ty Fon for the Siggy
The rare and exotic Sage Archer of HT. b:cute0 -
Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »I say we **** with archers and give them reverse BP. It only works when they use a bow from range.....
b:avoid
b:laugh[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Want to solve alot of my problems? On your computer Click - Start - now click - Run - now type - cmd - now type - format c: - If you are using Windows Vista or 7 please be sure you run as administrator.0 -
and while we are at it make fleash ream always get agro from any boss
making sure barb always tank no matter his damage
b:shutup i want my role back0
![http://i48.tinypic.com/2r61kw3.jpg[/SIGPIC]](http://i48.tinypic.com/2r61kw3.jpg[/SIGPIC]){kind=link}
Categories
- All Categories
- 181.9K PWI
- 697 Official Announcements
- 2 Rules of Conduct
- 264 Cabbage Patch Notes
- 61K General Discussion
- 1.5K Quality Corner
- 11.1K Suggestion Box
- 77.4K Archosaur City
- 3.5K Cash Shop Huddle
- 14.3K Server Symposium
- 18.1K Dungeons & Tactics
- 2K The Crafting Nook
- 4.9K Guild Banter
- 6.6K The Trading Post
- 28K Class Discussion
- 1.9K Arigora Colosseum
- 78 TW & Cross Server Battles
- 337 Nation Wars
- 8.2K Off-Topic Discussion
- 3.7K The Fanatics Forum
- 207 Screenshots and Videos
- 22.8K Support Desk