Ultimate r8 Recast Sin Build

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  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    HaxNinja - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Yes it is possible for a 5.0 r9 sin to come out, but who's to say that the 2x int stat on a r8 recast armor will be that of a sins, or more specifically, that of a r9 +12 sin. The odds are just too much against it. But of-course it would dominate in PvE

    There's a BM on Sanctuary who's got 2x -0.05 interval on their HA chest.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
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  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    I'm sorry to be blunt, but I don't like aps-crazed sins like you.
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  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    HaxNinja - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    YP.S (unrelated to topic) i out DD r9 +12 with my current state. I also out DD while unsparked but alot more (5.0 in pk with GoF is super epic) The idea was for me to be a 5.0 sage, but it might not come to that. I could be 4.0 sage, then 5.0 with windshield but its not so appealing to me. r9 Daggers are great but the un-sparked APS isn't very flattering. Tho if i happen to get 2x int on plate, I would invest on r9 weapon for farming, and use my current daggers for pk.

    Let me be crystal clear:

    If you had r9 +12, you would do more DPS.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • HaxNinja - Heavens Tear
    HaxNinja - Heavens Tear Posts: 72 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    Yes Traz i agree, would be super epic. Imagine r9 recast daggers at 5.0... omg that sounds sexy lol
    Drakon Leader
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  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    What Traz meant was, even with 4.0 r9 sparked, r9+12 does more damage than your current daggers.
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  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    5 APS G15 +12: 321,929 dps
    4 APS R9 +12: 319,025 dps
    4 APS R9R +12: 338,572 dps

    I'm pretty sure I already pointed out a long time ago that 5 aps with GoF is superior to R9.

    The origin of G15 Nirvana supposedly requiring GoF, -0.05 interval and +130 max is probably a combination of the following:
    a) Not using DoTs as shards
    b) Not using R9 ring for both setups
    c) Not bothering to check whether you could reduce the requirements
    d) Not using +12 refines on the weapons

    Also note that the G15 setup here has 4 aps base, meaning that the DPS could still be higher via using a cube necklace for an extra 5 attack levels.

    However, R9 has significantly higher DPH due to 30 more Attack Levels. And since we've been proven that one can solo Harpy Wraith with 3.33 aps and R9, I'd say that pretty much makes R9 the superior choice, despite having less DPS and APS. Not to mention that having the R9 dagger gives you the option of getting the R9 belt for the set bonus.

    As for the recast discussion, the biggest advantages of recast R8 are:
    a) 5.0 R9 Demon
    b) 5.0 Sage
    c) Being able to shard 24 JoSD regardless of culti

    A realistic recast R8 weapon is a watered-down R9, whereas an ideal recast R8 is superior to R9. Then again, in PvE, the same is true of the G15 Morai, pretty much.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    Ah, that makes sense now Olbaze. I don't think you cleared it up before that G15 with 2x -ints can still out DD 4.0 r9, but I know you did with the other adds.

    Either way both are great daggers, and the extra ~2.9k DPS G15 has isn't really that much over R9's when comparing the total numbers.
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  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    _Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Ah, that makes sense now Olbaze. I don't think you cleared it up before that G15 with 2x -ints can still out DD 4.0 r9, but I know you did with the other adds.

    I know I did G15 v R9 for Sage, with 2x -0.05 turning out superior with any unique mod except +3% crit.

    Generally speaking I don't bother much with Demons, since I consider cheze soloing Harpy with 3.33 R9 to show that going for -interval is rather moot, thus pondering whether a specific combination of mods for G15 would superior to R9 is a boring task.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I know I did G15 v R9 for Sage, with 2x -0.05 turning out superior with any unique mod except +3% crit.

    Generally speaking I don't bother much with Demons, since I consider cheze soloing Harpy with 3.33 R9 to show that going for -interval is rather moot, thus pondering whether a specific combination of mods for G15 would superior to R9 is a boring task.
    Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »
    fixed, you do the math and try, g15 will out dps the r9 with those adds.

    I'll do it for you, but correct me if i'm wrong. (this being done with GoF at 30% proc, also being done sparked cos single pve, when are you not sparked?)

    Dark Death Thorns
    (21,312 - 26,008) / 2 * 1.59 = 37,619.4
    37,619.4 * 1.30 * 1.32 = 64,554.9
    64,554.9 * 5 = 322,774.5 DPS


    R9 Daggers
    (21,735 + 25,822) / 2 * 1.89 = 44,941.4
    44,941.4 * 1.30 * 1.33 = 77,703.6
    77,703.6 * 4 = 310,814.5 DPS

    Just in case you couldn't tell
    (Min Attack + Max Attack) / 2 * Attack Level = A
    A * GoF Proc * Crit Rate = B
    B * APS = C

    They used a different ring. Switching the 130 mod for this build gives you:

    (21,312 + 24,717) / 2 * 1.59 = 36,593.055
    36,593.055 * 1.30 * 1.32 = 62,793.7
    62,793.7 * 5 = 313,968.4

    Well how about that, still works out for the original figures.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • raishuyin
    raishuyin Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    HaxNinja - Heavens Tear wrote:
    Everything there was farmed :) Keep all jealous remarks to yourself please.

    SO MANY claim that however not even 5% of HT really have farmed it.
    HaxNinja - Heavens Tear wrote:

    P.S (unrelated to topic) i out DD r9 +12 with my current state. I also out DD while unsparked but alot more (5.0 in pk with GoF is super epic) The idea was for me to be a 5.0 sage, but it might not come to that. I could be 4.0 sage, then 5.0 with windshield but its not so appealing to me. r9 Daggers are great but the un-sparked APS isn't very flattering. Tho if i happen to get 2x int on plate, I would invest on r9 weapon for farming, and use my current daggers for pk.

    you out dd g13 vana aps idiots thats all. r9 sage/demon sins can still out dd you with the common aps gear and refines.
    HaxNinja - Heavens Tear wrote:
    On another note: This was meant for other sins who, like me, are sick of being "glass-cannons". Using R9 for more def while loosing the APS isn't fair for us sins.
    HaxNinja - Heavens Tear wrote:
    Its insane... the difference in my defence from wearing this gear just makes pk that much more fun.

    nearly died laughing here. learn to play your class. sins have skills to defend themselfs you know!? and if you wouldnt be so aps crazed you would notice they have alot of skills for offencive use as well. but with your playstyle you will propably never notice.

    make pk more fun? lol
    must be fun and amazing skill to wait until buffs of your targets run out and while hiding in stealth with your lvl 105, doublespark headhunt aps kill and back to stealth others. how many keys you need to press? 3? or even macroed it already?

    btw if you have that much defence why are you still hiding in stealth?

    imao go hide in stealth and behind your new GD friends. and if you are as pro as masterma start flaming while hiding in a mob of 15+ pking factionmates outside west ogtfo.
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    raishuyin wrote: »
    Syou out dd g13 vana aps idiots thats all. r9 sage/demon sins can still out dd you with the common aps gear and refines.

    No they don't. Obviously you haven't bothered to read anything, now get out of the thread.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    No they don't. Obviously you haven't bothered to read anything, now get out of the thread.

    Well it actually depends a bit.

    Taking the same build I used previously in this thread, if you take out the DoTs from both setups, you end up with:
    5 APS G15 +12: 273,940 dps
    4 APS R9 +12: 278,938 dps

    On the other hand, if you lower the refine to +10 while keeping the DoTs, you get:
    5 APS G15 +10: 277,279 dps
    4 APS R9 +10: 280,047 dps

    Finally, if you lower the refine to +10 and remove the DoTs, you get:
    5 APS G15 +10: 235,945 dps
    4 APS R9 +10: 244,857 dps

    In all of the above cases, R9 comes out on top.

    Of course, out of these cases, the first two have very minimal differences and I'd put my money on a G16 Cube Necklace being enough to push the G15 to be the top weapon.

    As I suspected, the superiority of R9 hinges critically on Attack Levels. And another interesting note is that the Jones' Blessing is actually the key contributor to the G15 being able to compete with R9 at all.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • raishuyin
    raishuyin Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    i dont care about numbers on a forum. praxis showed me r9+12 sage CAN hold aggro from those daggers and demon anyway.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    raishuyin wrote: »
    i dont care about numbers on a forum. praxis showed me r9+12 sage CAN hold aggro from those daggers and demon anyway.

    Holding aggro isn't really a measure of DPS anyway.

    You can grab aggro from someone else just by timing your sparks differently and/or using Power Dash. I take aggro from a 5 aps +10 BM who should have like 40% more DPS whenever I use Power Dash.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • raishuyin
    raishuyin Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    i am not just talking about grabing aggro but holding it too.
    but yeah it depends on sparktiming and buffs/debuffs.
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    raishuyin wrote: »
    i dont care about numbers on a forum. praxis showed me r9+12 sage CAN hold aggro from those daggers and demon anyway.

    And I don't care about your post due to total lack of information about any of those sins. We have no idea what builds either of the sins have so you're post is meaningless.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • AuroraTear - Archosaur
    AuroraTear - Archosaur Posts: 89 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    I had the original -.02 2x's on my nirvy daggers on Arch server. It makes me sad that they were actually repeated. Ive had them well over a ear now but I didnt get so lucky as to have GOF, only Sac strike. How much proc difference is there really?b:angryb:angryb:angry
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    AuroraTear - Archosaur wrote: »
    I had the original -.02 2x's on my nirvy daggers on Arch server. It makes me sad that they were actually repeated. Ive had them well over a ear now but I didnt get so lucky as to have GOF, only Sac strike. How much proc difference is there really?b:angryb:angryb:angry

    SS is 15%, GoF is 20%. Or so I've been told.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    raishuyin wrote: »
    i dont care about numbers on a forum. praxis showed me r9+12 sage CAN hold aggro from those daggers and demon anyway.

    numbers >> some random sin holding aggro from some other random sin for ONE time
    you only purge once #yopo
  • AuroraTear - Archosaur
    AuroraTear - Archosaur Posts: 89 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    Well I am proof tha you don't need to o CS your daggers lieks o many on ehre are QQing about. THe difference is. WHen I cast mine from TT100.......... I got my double interval on tte very first try. Ii was onlyy aiming foor -.05 and GOF and looky what I got.
  • AuroraTear - Archosaur
    AuroraTear - Archosaur Posts: 89 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    what I dont understand. Is that looking at the PWI database the Rank 8 armor shows that you cant get interval on anything but the boots???
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    AuroraTear - Archosaur wrote: »
    what I dont understand. Is that looking at the PWI database the Rank 8 armor shows that you cant get interval on anything but the boots???

    Um... which R8? Recast?

    Recast R8 chest here shows -0.05 interval as a possible mod. Same for the boots.

    But yes, you cannot get -interval on the wrists or the leggings. However, that is rather irrelevant since the set bonus for 3 pieces with -0.1 interval. Get -0.05 on armor and boots, get any leggings and you total -0.2, which is exactly what you would get with TT99 boots, Nirvana Leggings and R8 armor.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    Yup, and getting just -0.05 on boots allows you to replace your boots and upgrade to 2nd cast nirvy bracers too.
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  • raishuyin
    raishuyin Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    And I don't care about your post due to total lack of information about any of those sins. We have no idea what builds either of the sins have so you're post is meaningless.


    for those who still dont know what a common aps build nowadays looks like

    note: that one is sage and he out dd demonsins without a problem g15th as well.
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    raishuyin wrote: »
    for those who still dont know what a common aps build nowadays looks like

    note: that one is sage and he out dd demonsins without a problem g15th as well.

    So based on how you structured that sentence, that sage sin will out DD any demon with the same gear AND G15 as well..... that "as well" on the end of your sentence bothers me. Maybe if the other sin is vit stone build or along those lines, but that "as well" makes me believe you think that sage sin will always have aggro from anyone (including demons with same gear). All the info I need was in that one sentence and now I know it's pointless to even bother with you further.

    Good Day b:bye
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    _Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Yup, and getting just -0.05 on boots allows you to replace your boots and upgrade to 2nd cast nirvy bracers too.

    Well, technically any Demon Sin would have that option already with something like this. Just that most people seem to either not bother, or they forget, or they go with Warsong belt and Cube necklace instead.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • raishuyin
    raishuyin Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    So based on how you structured that sentence, that sage sin will out DD any demon with the same gear AND G15 as well..... that "as well" on the end of your sentence bothers me. Maybe if the other sin is vit stone build or along those lines, but that "as well" makes me believe you think that sage sin will always have aggro from anyone (including demons with same gear). All the info I need was in that one sentence and now I know it's pointless to even bother with you further.

    Good Day b:bye

    1. if you want to analyze things that detailed please note that with "that sin" i was talking about that particular one not just any sage sin with similar gear in common.
    raishuyin wrote:
    that sage sin will out DD any demon with the same gear

    2. if a r9+12 sage and demon with aps gear and dot sharding compete for aggro its kinda even and they are ping ponging based on who has more dex and crits. thats what i noticed and tested with more than 200 TTs with a friend. so unless you can come up with similar optimal testing results take your sarcasm and shuush to the furry section.
  • SpazzMcAps - Harshlands
    SpazzMcAps - Harshlands Posts: 2,561 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    _Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Yup, and getting just -0.05 on boots allows you to replace your boots and upgrade to 2nd cast nirvy bracers too.

    if you still use nirv legs then i would get lunar vana wrists because of the higher base stats. assuming that you are using tt nirvana. most sins i see use tt vana
  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    @Olbaze I guess it's just preference. Or ignorance. XD

    @Spazz I already have a 4 socket 2nd cast bracers in my bank waiting to get +10'd, It's mainly for keeping the 5 attack level bonus with my TT nirvy helm because I'll be switching out the TT nirvy legs with r8r once I +10 them. I just kinda wish I went lunar nirvy from the beginning. Curse my "I'm never gonna be that rich" thoughts back when I was farming for my nirvy dags.
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  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited April 2012
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    _Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »
    @Olbaze I guess it's just preference. Or ignorance. XD

    Which is an interesting note, since upgrading your boots and wrists to G15 Nirvana would grant you access to sharding up to 20 JoSDs, instead of the 12 you could do with TT99s. Not to mention higher life from refines. That would allow Demon sins to do all kinds of scary things.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.

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