G15 PVE Dagger aka. ☆☆Blades of Bloodlust: Sky

ellero · March 2012

So what do u guys think about the new daggers?

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/33529

Cost 17mil to get and lot of questing to get them.. but does anyone know if its worth it??

You get the daggers with 4 random stats and +60 slaying lvl. The random adds can be actually very good if u give enought trys to get em. Lets say:

Maximum Physical Attack +106
Maximum Physical Attack +130
Dexterity +18~19
Atk. Level +3 OR +2% Crit

And the additional stat increase dmg vs mobs with 50-60 % /less than 60% people says/.

The base p attack of the daggers is 435-683 wich means they average dmg is (435+683)/2 * 1.25 = 698,75

They also can't come with -interval addon so 4 aps is max they could go.

............

On other hand R8 daggers got same attack speed 2x Maximum Physical Attack +185 adds and +4% cti with base dmg 710-1064
= 710+1064+185+185 /2 * 1.25 = 1340

1340 average dmg and the 4% crit increase dmg 4% so 104% of 1340 is 1393,6 dmg with is 99.4% higher than the the average of g15 pve w/o stats (698,75).

If the +60 slaying lvl add 60% more dmg, does that mean that the the rank 8 daggers still will have 40% more dmg?
And those two weapons refine the same according to pwdatabase.

Sorry for my english.. not my native lang.

Salari - Raging Tide · March 2012

Just going by the tests I done with the level 95's (it is in a thread here will post below) I beleive the g15's will exceed r8 and g13 nirvana and compete with g15 nirvana with the right adds. This will be a perfect weapon for a pve only or farming char's (for any class not just the sin class). keeping cost down to farm is always a plus. If I was just now getting to 95-101, I would be using these weapons to farm for r9 instead of wasting on other weapons r8 nirvana ect for refines shards ect which ends up saving you lots of time and coins. I am almost half way to getting the prest for the g15's and I cant wait to test them, as of yet I have not gotten the instance daggers and will do a few tests on them when I do.

95 daggers test

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1300361

_Skai_ - Raging Tide · March 2012

Why would you be asking this if you very well know that no one in the game has it yet?

No one knows how they will stack up to the current end-game daggers yet. Sure the numbers are there, but until it's been 100% tested ingame, all these numbers are just concepts.

I know someone will get these daggers before I do though, because I'm aiming for the skills first, which will mean I'm going from Shroud -> Luminance -> Corona. I'm ~1650 prestige away from the 2nd Assassin skill, and from there I'd need to get 3500 prestige in Luminance, and then Corona will be my ending order for the final skill and the dagger at 5k prestige.

Once I get them, I will make a video testing them, and I look forward to testing these daggers out and see how they stack up to G13 and R8, but as I said, no one in this game has it yet, and the closest any sin will get it is ~6 weeks from now, assuming they go into Corona and do every single one of their dailies and weeklies from expansion start. (That was a long sentence XD)

And as Ast stated, Slaying levels and attack levels don't stack in an additive manner. They instead multiply, so 60 slaying levels and 30 attack levels is somewhere around 1.54 (slaying) * 1.3 (attack) = 2.002, or 100% more damage with 60 slaying and 30 attack levels.

If you hover over your slayer levels ingame when you have some, it will tell you how much it raises your damage in PvE.

Empu - Sanctuary · March 2012

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

No one knows how they will stack up to the current end-game daggers yet. Sure the numbers are there, but until it's been 100% tested ingame, all these numbers are just concepts.

Come on now Skai, we all know that on the Assassin forums numbers have become more important then ingame experience or even common sense. b:avoid

_Skai_ - Raging Tide · March 2012

b:avoid

Olbaze - Sanctuary · March 2012

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

No one knows how they will stack up to the current end-game daggers yet. Sure the numbers are there, but until it's been 100% tested ingame, all these numbers are just concepts.

Until I see a reliable confirmation that a formula for Slaying Levels has been taken directly from the game files, I shall proceed to ignore them.

I know someone will get these daggers before I do though, because I'm aiming for the skills first, which will mean I'm going from Shroud -> Luminance -> Corona. I'm ~1650 prestige away from the 2nd Assassin skill, and from there I'd need to get 3500 prestige in Luminance, and then Corona will be my ending order for the final skill and the dagger at 5k prestige.

I decided to stick around in Corona for Shadow Sight in case WC nirvana gets even more **** than it already is and starts favoring sins you have Shadow Sight over ones that do not.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide · March 2012

I see. I'm going Corona last because it's logical for the skill then daggers.

ellero · March 2012

I joined Corona cuz i like Shadow Sight skill and ill get the daggers after confirmation they are better than R8.
This skill is not only fun but actually useful in nirvana etc.. b:laugh
And i don't really see what use the other 3 skills may have... /exept the 5 secounds aoe stealth.. wait 5 secounds? b:spit /

Got 1900 prestige ady

OontzOontz - Dreamweaver · March 2012

g15 pve dagger at +12 and drakeflames and 3rd spark would do 26k total. The same r8 only does 23k. If you can get good adds, then it would be even more.

Olbaze - Sanctuary · March 2012

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

I see. I'm going Corona last because it's logical for the skill then daggers.

Of course, if you're going for the daggers.

Personally I'm not particularly interested in them. I'm far more interested in exactly how well certain procs fair with higher APS. For example, would being 2.86+ APS make the Pierce proc on Soul of the Sea a permanent debuff? Or exactly how often does Radiant Dagger proc? Or could the Blood Defect on Unconsciousness be used at higher APS levels to justify the lower DPS? I truly do believe that if the procs can be maintained consistently or even permanently, weapons like Soul of the Sea or Unconsciousness or Radiant Dagger would actually be rather valid alternatives for the likes of Hook and Thorn.

Personally, I just want to have a single pair of do-all daggers. Currently that's biting me in the *** because I'd need a +10 on Barrier Thorn: Nirvana to have a similar DPH to my +6 Ocean Supreme Dagger.

g15 pve dagger at +12 and drakeflames and 3rd spark would do 26k total. The same r8 only does 23k. If you can get good adds, then it would be even more.

Yay. That's not exactly a great point, considering that majority of all "endgame" daggers, regarded as such by their owners, are far below that point. Most people don't go beyond +10 refine and Perfect Garnet.

_Belgarion_ - Dreamweaver · March 2012

I am working on these daggers for my sin, and when I get them i'll do some testing to compare them to the R8 as thats what I have at the moment. I'm sure somebody will get them before I do though. Personally I think they will be slightly better than the R8 but nowhere near the R9 or Barrier thorns+8/10. It will be interesting though considering the relative price of each they might well be a viable end game option for a purely PvE sin

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · March 2012

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yay. That's not exactly a great point, considering that majority of all "endgame" daggers, regarded as such by their owners, are far below that point. Most people don't go beyond +10 refine and Perfect Garnet.

I think its a very decent point. The G15 Morai's and the R8 refine at the same crappy rate which is slightly worse than G13s. However, the Morai's have 60 Slaying levels to compensate.

So compare them to G13's that start with an average attack of about 754 where the Morai's start with an ave attack dmg of 537, 217 less attack. 60 slaying levels is about 55% more dmg, so 537 x 1.55 = 832 "modified" dmg. But it refines almost as well so 60 slaying levels plays a bigger roll when you look at +10 which is G13 and Morai's=960 vs 1222, a difference of 261. So where the attack rates of both has grown, the difference is still about the same and 55% more damage players a larger roll on Morai's larger dmg.

Also, picking this weapon should partially hinge on your own attack levels. I think I pointed it out before asterelle that slaying levels and attack levels have a multiplitive value. So 60 slaying levels is larger when you have a build with more attack levels, ie pure DoT sharding or pieces of R9.

Korrgan - Dreamweaver · March 2012

OP and everyone else can compare them directly now.

I created this thread with a link to a calc sheet.

I kept the values the more accurate possible.

WnbTank - Archosaur · March 2012

I actually just finished my math comparing R8+10(2x garnet gem) to similar Corona dags, results were sorta surprising. Modest addons on Corona dags = ~19% less dmg in PvP while offering 25% more dmg in PvE.

With perfect Corona dagg adds(I admit you`ll more likely pull SoT outta packs) you will actually par with R8 on PvP and have 50% dmg over R8 on PvE. I dont know bout you guys but a wep that offers dmg a R8 at 6aps would, with the 4aps dmg reduction, sounds just scary.

I didnt do the math but I`m positive that Corona daggs out dmg everything but R8(Great addons)/R9 recast. Actually, Corona daggs with perfect addons are pretty equal to R9 recast for PvE. It`s a joke how little you gotta pay for something that good - I really cant wait to get mine.

Corona dags can be recast really easy/cheap(60 influence/200k coins) and having good addons is the average with them. When you can go and recast your wep ~15 times when you first get it(If you dont buy the sin skill from corona), good addons are to be expected. The ones who go for Corona dags, if you get 3x physical dmg addons, stick with them.

Olbaze - Sanctuary · March 2012

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

I actually just finished my math comparing R8+10(2x garnet gem) to similar Corona dags, results were sorta surprising. Modest addons on Corona dags = ~19% less dmg in PvP while offering 25% more dmg in PvE.

With perfect Corona dagg adds(I admit you`ll more likely pull SoT outta packs) you will actually par with R8 on PvP and have 50% dmg over R8 on PvE. I dont know bout you guys but a wep that offers dmg a R8 at 6aps would, with the 4aps dmg reduction, sounds just scary.

I didnt do the math but I`m positive that Corona daggs out dmg everything but R8(Great addons)/R9 recast. Actually, Corona daggs with perfect addons are pretty equal to R9 recast for PvE. It`s a joke how little you gotta pay for something that good - I really cant wait to get mine.

Corona dags can be recast really easy/cheap(60 influence/200k coins) and having good addons is the average with them. When you can go and recast your wep ~15 times when you first get it(If you dont buy the sin skill from corona), good addons are to be expected. The ones who go for Corona dags, if you get 3x physical dmg addons, stick with them.

Only applicable for Demons, though. For Sages, the higher -interval weapons like G13 and G15 nirvanas are better.

ellero · April 2012

So, should i get the dagger? I got 5k prestige.. but im still not sure how better it is than r8 b:surrender

Any1 can say for sure? Im sure lot of ppl got 5k prestige ady.. since lot ot ppl got theyr skills like week before me.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide · April 2012

ellero wrote: »

So, should i get the dagger? I got 5k prestige.. but im still not sure how better it is than r8 b:surrender

Any1 can say for sure? Im sure lot of ppl got 5k prestige ady.. since lot ot ppl got theyr skills like week before me.

Feel free to be the first one to test them for us!

If not then you'll just have to wait until I get to 5k prestige in Corona, which will happen after I get 3500 prestige in Luminance. I'm almost halfway now.

Once I get these daggers I'll be testing them intensively.

WnbTank - Archosaur · April 2012

ellero wrote: »

So, should i get the dagger? I got 5k prestige.. but im still not sure how better it is than r8 b:surrender

Any1 can say for sure? Im sure lot of ppl got 5k prestige ady.. since lot ot ppl got theyr skills like week before me.

Depends so much on your shards and refines as the better those are - the better morai dags become in comparison. I can do the math but I'm bout to leave to visit mom as there is some pizza after last night. I can determine the point where morai dags become superior but it's affected by shards. If I don't have the shards for math I'll be using shroud shards as those are something I'll likely be using myself - I still have to test if they are order depedant or if they work regardless of the order.

supertroyman1 · April 2012

i cant speak for the daggers specifically but on lost city lemonade(a seeker) has the 101 pve dual swords. there only +3 but she says they hit about as hard as her +10 r8 sword. i can imagine the daggers will stack up similerly.

Olbaze - Sanctuary · April 2012

ellero wrote: »

So, should i get the dagger? I got 5k prestige.. but im still not sure how better it is than r8 b:surrender

Any1 can say for sure? Im sure lot of ppl got 5k prestige ady.. since lot ot ppl got theyr skills like week before me.

Well, using one of the handy spreadsheets posted on these forums, plus this as a basis, I get the following numbers, on a Demon sin
Rank8 +10: 131,475 dps
G15 Morai +10: 143,070

And that's with any modifiers on the G15. Make it the "perfect" set of mods and it gets a whopping 161,844 dps.

Both weapons had 2x Garnet Gems sharded into them.

BladedZero - Sanctuary · April 2012

While the Morai daggers seem to be stronger pve wise, is the difference worth spending 17mil on these daggers over 2 mil on R8 Daggers? I mean most assassins will aim for R8 at least to get the top.

Olbaze - Sanctuary · April 2012

BladedZero - Sanctuary wrote: »

While the Morai daggers seem to be stronger pve wise, is the difference worth spending 17mil on these daggers over 2 mil on R8 Daggers? I mean most assassins will aim for R8 at least to get the top.

Well, 10% more DPS at a cost of 17m is pretty small, considering that people are willing to spend much more on the likes of G15 Nirvana or R9.

I'd say the biggest problem is that you cannot just farm it in a week or two.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver · April 2012

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well, 10% more DPS at a cost of 17m is pretty small, considering that people are willing to spend much more on the likes of G15 Nirvana or R9.

I'd say the biggest problem is that you cannot just farm it in a week or two.

80% left zzz

i kinda like it actually, farming gear...skills...feels good. tehe, the last piece of gear i farmed was a tt belt on my psy, soulgathere's mirrors xd

anyway, where is that spreadsheet? i cannot find it again

have you found the r9 2x garnets dps by any chance?

Olbaze - Sanctuary · April 2012

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

anyway, where is that spreadsheet? i cannot find it again
have you found the r9 2x garnets dps by any chance?

Personally, I used this one as I had it downloaded.

Salari - Raging Tide · April 2012

BladedZero - Sanctuary wrote: »

While the Morai daggers seem to be stronger pve wise, is the difference worth spending 17mil on these daggers over 2 mil on R8 Daggers? I mean most assassins will aim for R8 at least to get the top.

For purely farming or pve players sure.

Salari - Raging Tide · April 2012

Someone on our server has the daggers, they where afk at the time i saw them. They were not DOT sharded so it would have been nice to get some numbers to compaire to when I get them in about a week or so

Traz - Dreamweaver · April 2012

BladedZero - Sanctuary wrote: »

While the Morai daggers seem to be stronger pve wise, is the difference worth spending 17mil on these daggers over 2 mil on R8 Daggers? I mean most assassins will aim for R8 at least to get the top.

Just wanted to point out you need to get 72 gold before you can spend 2m....sooooo what's 17m?

ellero · April 2012

I met ppl who has it.. was with +108 max phy attk and +18 dex stats and he said it deals dmg like r8... b:bye

Salari - Raging Tide · April 2012

Well after lots of thinking i upgraded my nirvana's over saving for r9 (no flames please). First roll was SS dex and range +1. It dropped me to 3.33 so its not like the world will end. 7 rerolls later back at same spot. I did get att level +20 once which is actually pretty nice damage wise. I hope to get -int soon with attack lvl +20 or SS, then work on getting another tome again and refines on armor. I should have the moria daggers by mid next week and will make a followup thread on the one I already did. for real (in game) damage if one is not already posted by then.

TwentyThree - Dreamweaver · April 2012

New daggers? Aps or gtfo b:avoid

ylvina · April 2012

TwentyThree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

New daggers? Aps or gtfo b:avoid

And again another Sin that should delete his char

G15 PVE Dagger aka. ☆☆Blades of Bloodlust: Sky

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