The "heated" debate...?

beastmasterjr
beastmasterjr Posts: 28 Arc User
edited April 2012 in Wizard
Hi guys,

Just curious, but I am just unsure when it comes to casters about their advantages and disadvantages....?

What I mean by this is, psychics seems to be like a hyper damage wizard... from what I have experienced and then leads my thought down the process of "why wizard when you can psychic?".

I am not saying this is true, but I am sure that if this is not the case then there is something else I am missing and hence the reason for this forum post.

The only advantage I see to a wizard is the fact if you do caster Nirvy then you have another caster, but as for class v class I am yet (earlier levels) to discover their advantage and unique purpose...?

Thanks for your comments,

Beastmasterjr.
Post edited by beastmasterjr on
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Comments

  • Hurrdurr - Lothranis
    Hurrdurr - Lothranis Posts: 1,468 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Wizard can undine, psychics cannot.

    Psychics are in ultra-defence mode or ultra-attack mode while a R9 +12 JoSD wiz can tank and dish out amazing damage. the R9 +12 psy will either be ultra-tanky in white or uber squishy in black.

    Psychics have no p.damage skills

    Wizards have lower cost control skills

    Wizards are not fish

    Wizards have distance shrink

    Wizards have amazing p.def endgame rivals that of magic marrowed BMs
  • Yorkin - Dreamweaver
    Yorkin - Dreamweaver Posts: 271 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    It is actually endless debate. Truth is that, when psys first appeared they outmatched wizzies with their fast spellcasting abilities which was psys top advantage. But that was loooong time ago, and it's been a while since I last played PWI. I wonder how this Descent expansion balanced the scales among classes?b:puzzled
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    A small tribute to elven mathematician from a human physicist. b:pleased

    Yorkin - The Retired Wizard
  • beastmasterjr
    beastmasterjr Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Hurrdurr - Lothranis wrote: »
    Wizard can undine, psychics cannot.

    Psychics are in ultra-defence mode or ultra-attack mode while a R9 +12 JoSD wiz can tank and dish out amazing damage. the R9 +12 psy will either be ultra-tanky in white or uber squishy in black.

    Psychics have no p.damage skills

    Wizards have lower cost control skills

    Wizards are not fish

    Wizards have distance shrink

    Wizards have amazing p.def endgame rivals that of magic marrowed BMs

    In saying this does this give Wizards some sort of advantage in terms of people who seek another DD for their party over psychics.. cause as I said I only see the sheer damage difference and it seems huge, especially lower on.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Hurrdurr - Lothranis wrote: »
    Wizard can undine, psychics cannot.

    Psychics are in ultra-defence mode or ultra-attack mode while a R9 +12 JoSD wiz can tank and dish out amazing damage. the R9 +12 psy will either be ultra-tanky in white or uber squishy in black.

    Psychics have no p.damage skills

    Wizards have lower cost control skills

    Wizards are not fish

    Wizards have distance shrink

    Wizards have amazing p.def endgame rivals that of magic marrowed BMs

    ^^

    Any investments you make to their weapon is just for psys. All other mages can share a weapon through account stash.

    The multitude of ranged AoEs comes at a cost of few/ weak 1-1 skills.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • _Perses_ - Lost City
    _Perses_ - Lost City Posts: 1,917 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Hurrdurr - Lothranis wrote: »
    Wizard can undine, psychics cannot.

    Psychics are in ultra-defence mode or ultra-attack mode while a R9 +12 JoSD wiz can tank and dish out amazing damage. the R9 +12 psy will either be ultra-tanky in white or uber squishy in black.

    Psychics have no p.damage skills

    Wizards have lower cost control skills

    Wizards are not fish

    Wizards have distance shrink

    Wizards have amazing p.def endgame rivals that of magic marrowed BMs

    http://pwcalc.com/deac32eb5f6950a2


    Explain to me how that wouldn't scare the **** outta most people :>? (Even other r9's, and ignore the recast I did that just for the hell of it <.<)

    121 attack lvls and 58 defense lvls with black voodoo (sage), 135 defense levels and -8 attack levels with white voodoo (sage).

    So I can agree with white they are tanky as can be, but even in black they are still tanky and unless they are fighting another full r9 with jades I don't see how they would have any chance of being killed in black voodoo.
    Nothing worthwhile to mention here, enjoy the animated signature~

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Hurrdurr - Lothranis
    Hurrdurr - Lothranis Posts: 1,468 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    _Perses_ - Lost City wrote: »
    http://pwcalc.com/deac32eb5f6950a2


    Explain to me how that wouldn't scare the **** outta most people :>? (Even other r9's, and ignore the recast I did that just for the hell of it <.<)

    121 attack lvls and 58 defense lvls with black voodoo (sage), 135 defense levels and -8 attack levels with white voodoo (sage).

    So I can agree with white they are tanky as can be, but even in black they are still tanky and unless they are fighting another full r9 with jades I don't see how they would have any chance of being killed in black voodoo.

    Because with that p.def even with +12 lunar ring a wiz can BT through it. No one ever denied that psys are not scary, just R9 wizard can tank better and deal just as much damage (per hit at least) as the psy can.
  • TJTLegend - Archosaur
    TJTLegend - Archosaur Posts: 102 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    This physic vs wiz topic again b:worried
    Physics are NOT a hyper damage wizard but physics are more versatile while wizards destroy everything. The "why wizard when you can physic" question......... well wizards have a better advantage than physics in damage while you can say the same for physics about defence.

    Physics will say that wizard damage with their debuffs and amps is a over kill......... well that's a good thing right?

    Wizards can have good defense and have non nerfed damage at the same time while physics cant. Between the two classes it all comes down to damage in the end because when you see a more versatile class you'll think they are all powerful but wizards just one shot them lol job done.

    Wizards have the highest and best damage per hit in the entire game, now some people think thats false because of rank 9 and god of frenzy wep stat however wizards can now amp with genie and has the best amp in the game with our new skill "ice prison", we have better debuffs than physics and have the most overpowered debuff "genie spark" when used with a good dex genie. Wizards are the highest factors in TW and are the best in TW while physics arent the best in anything.

    Simples. b:cool (I'm not bragging, these are facts).
  • CritCat - Archosaur
    CritCat - Archosaur Posts: 608 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Hurrdurr - Lothranis wrote: »
    Because with that p.def even with +12 lunar ring a wiz can BT through it. No one ever denied that psys are not scary, just R9 wizard can tank better and deal just as much damage (per hit at least) as the psy can.

    Even a full R9 recast Wizard CANNOT just BT through that, you'd have better luck with undinesparksutra combo. IJS.


    I've tried. I can make a video and show you when I get home.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Current Sin Build:
    pwcalc.com/b6540a34278d977d
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  • Hurrdurr - Lothranis
    Hurrdurr - Lothranis Posts: 1,468 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    CritCat - Archosaur wrote: »
    Even a full R9 recast Wizard CANNOT just BT through that, you'd have better luck with undinesparksutra combo. IJS.


    I've tried. I can make a video and show you when I get home.

    100 attack levels with 20k base magic attack cannot BT through 53 def levels and 7k p.def and practically 0 fire def after undine + spark?
  • CritCat - Archosaur
    CritCat - Archosaur Posts: 608 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Hurrdurr - Lothranis wrote: »
    100 attack levels with 20k base magic attack cannot BT through 53 def levels and 7k p.def and practically 0 fire def after undine + spark?

    You'd have better luck with geniespark combo, IJS.


    and lol @ Full DoT Wizard
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Current Sin Build:
    pwcalc.com/b6540a34278d977d
    Current Wizard Build:
    pwcalc.com/068f7e40791a3be6
  • Hurrdurr - Lothranis
    Hurrdurr - Lothranis Posts: 1,468 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    CritCat - Archosaur wrote: »
    You'd have better luck with geniespark combo, IJS.


    and lol @ Full DoT Wizard

    100 attack levels? l2maths

    Jones + R9 = 93
    G16 cube = 5
    PQ3 = 2

    =100 attack levels.
  • CritCat - Archosaur
    CritCat - Archosaur Posts: 608 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Hurrdurr - Lothranis wrote: »
    100 attack levels? l2maths

    Jones + R9 = 93
    G16 cube = 5
    PQ3 = 2

    =100 attack levels.

    I don't factor in Jones.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Current Sin Build:
    pwcalc.com/b6540a34278d977d
    Current Wizard Build:
    pwcalc.com/068f7e40791a3be6
  • Hurrdurr - Lothranis
    Hurrdurr - Lothranis Posts: 1,468 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    CritCat - Archosaur wrote: »
    I don't factor in Jones.

    Your problem
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    I always thought Physics was a branch of science. Apparently it's some magical DD in perfect world.
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • TJTLegend - Archosaur
    TJTLegend - Archosaur Posts: 102 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    CritCat - Archosaur wrote: »
    You'd have better luck with geniespark combo, IJS.


    and lol @ Full DoT Wizard

    There is no laughing at a full DoT wizard because their damage is scary and has the best chance at killing heavy tanks in the game. When it comes to one shotting physics that have 58 defense level its not about having luck its about guaranteed efficiency meaning that the blade tempest will kill the physic. Period.
    The only classes that wizards will have more luck with sutra genie spark combo to kill their oponents are barbs and josd/vit seekers. On the other hand physics can't have major defense level while in blackvoodoo so wizards won't rely on sutra genie spark combo to kill them.
  • Venomthekill - Heavens Tear
    Venomthekill - Heavens Tear Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    to put an end to wizzys being not as great:

    when Im buffed before I enter TW with my wizzy...

    I have 20k pdef, 16k mdef, 23k base damage, 24 crit, 104 atck lvl, 65 def lvl

    I cant tell you how many 75k+ damage logs Ive had on melee guys in tw. any combo of extreme poisn/spark/genie spark/undine is jus too much damage agaisnt most charactors. AND its not a joke, wizzys can tab kill. My undebuffed random gush hits for 5k-8k. There is not much you can do agaianst that.

    One thing you gotta know about wizzys: most of their skills are based on % and are not damage capped. Thats why at lower lvls ppl say fishes do more damage, but at high lvls it pays off for wizzys

    When I fight fishies it usaully goes like this: get sealed, get sealed, I 1 shot them b:chuckle

    I have never regreated being a wizzy b:victory

    The only times I die in tw is when I stay in the pocket too long. Most of the time if i get into trouble I just blink and Im good again. Most of my deaths are from archer squads single targeting me. I much rather have blink and seal than good damage reduction at the cost of damage. If any melee char runs up on me, I seal then blink away.

    I understand you were asking about getting squads, but it is too fun being a wizzy in TW for anything else to matter to me lol I understand that fishes are prob more flexable in different situations, but that doesnt mean fishes are better for a squad. I understand we wizzys were prob getting trolled, but I wanted to say my 2 cents.

    If a squad is looking for a caster DD, I see little debate- get the first r9 that pm you hahahaha
    Life is a Garden...Dig Itb:victory

    101 Wizzy (r9)
    101 BM (5aps/r9)
    100 Veno (Farmer)
    90 Sin (for goofs)
    75 pys (for info)
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    CritCat - Archosaur wrote: »
    I don't factor in Jones.

    I hope by this you meant that you factor in the O'Malley blessing instead.
  • mropp
    mropp Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Psy have God mode (white vodoo)
    Psy have faceroll mode (black vodoo)
    Psy have fast channeling
    Psy have too many AoEs with minimal cost
    Psy have the ability to hit just as hard if not harder than us
    Psy have SoS with 40% proc rate at max SF
    Psy have OP fish skills
    Psy have OP survival
    Psy have OP damage
    Psy are OP

    Need I explain more? Thank you Hurrdurr for this Info.
  • TJTLegend - Archosaur
    TJTLegend - Archosaur Posts: 102 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    mropp wrote: »
    Psy have God mode (white vodoo)
    Psy have faceroll mode (black vodoo)
    Psy have fast channeling
    Psy have too many AoEs with minimal cost
    Psy have the ability to hit just as hard if not harder than us
    Psy have SoS with 40% proc rate at max SF
    Psy have OP fish skills
    Psy have OP survival
    Psy have OP damage
    Psy are OP

    Need I explain more? Thank you Hurrdurr for this Info.

    Well if they have all that then why do we just 1 shot them?
    Enlighten me.............please do.
    Most of this is true that physics are op, but they CAN'T hit harder than wizards b:bye
  • Venomthekill - Heavens Tear
    Venomthekill - Heavens Tear Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    wizzys r being trolled. When ppl list things that are op without actual stats, you cant argue against them. You will not change their mind. If he wants to back up his op statements with actual stats or facts, then us wizzys can debate it. But until then its just nonsense.

    for u trolls, please use actual stats like my previous post if you want to debate something. Listing things u think is op, doesnt make them true about fishes.

    When someome says they can get op defense, thats actualy means they have no offense and becomes a nonfactor for their squad. When they white, they are too easy to kill. Im sure fishes are fun to play with, but u have to really watch the situation to be useful.

    As the orignal question was why go wizzy when u can go fishes: the answer is fishes are situational while wizzys have better all around defense and better all around damage-while fishes have some cases in which they are defensive and some cases in which they are offensive. Both have aoes and good damage, BUT their is no case for going fish 100% of the time which the original question was stated.
    Life is a Garden...Dig Itb:victory

    101 Wizzy (r9)
    101 BM (5aps/r9)
    100 Veno (Farmer)
    90 Sin (for goofs)
    75 pys (for info)
  • _Perses_ - Lost City
    _Perses_ - Lost City Posts: 1,917 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    TJTLegend - Archosaur wrote: »
    Well if they have all that then why do we just 1 shot them?
    Enlighten me.............please do.
    Most of this is true that physics are op, but they CAN'T hit harder than wizards b:bye

    Idk about the hitting harder :>


    Currently I quit pwi to play on a private server that is up to date with pwi (minus morai skills), and I have to say I have yet to find a wizzy that hits harder than my psy (who isn't even fully sharded like I want) without their combo's to drop defenses or sparking.

    Personally I haven't seen a psychic on there that manages over 5k on me while i'm in black voodoo and if they get above 2k when i'm in white voodoo I give them congratz while I kill them and their friends <_< (Damn ganking hoes)
    Nothing worthwhile to mention here, enjoy the animated signature~

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mystic-Night - Heavens Tear
    Mystic-Night - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,619 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    mropp wrote: »
    Psy have God mode (white vodoo)
    Psy have faceroll mode (black vodoo)
    Psy have fast channeling
    Psy have too many AoEs with minimal cost
    Psy have the ability to hit just as hard if not harder than us
    Psy have SoS with 40% proc rate at max SF
    Psy have OP fish skills
    Psy have OP survival
    Psy have OP damage
    Psy are OP

    Need I explain more? Thank you Hurrdurr for this Info.

    40% SoS at max SF? This just shows us that you know little to nothing about psys and should no longer post on our forums. b:bye
    [SIGPIC]http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p64/cherry_nicole/baby.jpg[/SIGPIC]
  • HexOmega - Dreamweaver
    HexOmega - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,342 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    beastmasterjr wrote: »
    In saying this does this give Wizards some sort of advantage in terms of people who seek another DD for their party over psychics.. cause as I said I only see the sheer damage difference and it seems huge, especially lower on.

    as i see you wanna/need to farm on it too ;o?

    so we are talking about low budged or medium low budged


    what i can say is that the psy is more likely to die due to lower defenses
    or does sucky damage to prevent taking damage - meh


    as we are at PVE already, why not add more

    wizards do better aoes (higher peak damage/duration/radius/range *35meters mountain seize*)
    reliable defenses while keeping defenses in for example trials

    wizards can take down high hp+def pvp targets faster (Oh snap thats not PVE)
    this either by a high peak shot or extremely high DPS within 4 seconds
    while psy can go "you cant kill me mode* but actually has a harder time killing




    migh of add that those two classes work well together in a team
    wizad can debuff and psy will hit harder too
    and when the wiz is vulnerable in dragons breath, the psy can shoot aoe stun to give charm/genie time
    i like potato
  • Euzebe - Sanctuary
    Euzebe - Sanctuary Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Mystic-Night - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    40% SoS at max SF? This just shows us that you know little to nothing about psys and should no longer post on our forums. b:bye

    No offence, but with 55k SF, I'd have 40% silence rate.
  • violetvalor
    violetvalor Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    No offense, but with 55k SF, you would have 33% silence rate.

    The conversion goes as follows:

    %silence rate = SF * 3 / 5000
  • Euzebe - Sanctuary
    Euzebe - Sanctuary Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    mmhm, and 33% * 1.2 = 39.6%. hope you don't mind me just calling it 40%.
  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    For caster nirvana i never saw someone said ''cant do it without a psy we need a psy'' but always see ppl say ''we need a wizz we cant do without a wizz'' (tbh can do caster without any of AA class, ive done without wizz and without other AA too, but many ppl dont wanna go if no wizz in squad). And as wizz often i have aggro on psy and im not R9 im just a normall R8 +6, so i dont think psy hurt more in PvE, and i saw often psy die before the other class too so they seem squishy.

    But i just speak for PvE.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    b:dirty "I **** rainbows and love everyone"-Longknife b:cute
  • HexOmega - Dreamweaver
    HexOmega - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,342 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »
    For caster nirvana i never saw someone said ''cant do it without a psy we need a psy'' but always see ppl say ''we need a wizz we cant do without a wizz'' (tbh can do caster without any of AA class, ive done without wizz and without other AA too, but many ppl dont wanna go if no wizz in squad). And as wizz often i have aggro on psy and im not R9 im just a normall R8 +6, so i dont think psy hurt more in PvE, and i saw often psy die before the other class too so they seem squishy.

    But i just speak for PvE.


    r9 archers out-dps all casters anyways with their metal combo


    oh the irony
    i like potato
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    violetvalor wrote: »
    No offense, but with 55k SF, you would have 33% silence rate.

    The conversion goes as follows:

    %silence rate = SF * 3 / 5000
    Euzebe - Sanctuary wrote: »
    mmhm, and 33% * 1.2 = 39.6%. hope you don't mind me just calling it 40%.

    I love it when faceless alts are owned like this. Makes me feel happy inside b:cute
  • violetvalor
    violetvalor Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Euzebe - Sanctuary wrote: »
    mmhm, and 33% * 1.2 = 39.6%. hope you don't mind me just calling it 40%.

    Ah, demon Soul of Silence. b:cute
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