why PWI hate magic classes:

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Cristalwhite - Harshlands
Cristalwhite - Harshlands Posts: 134 Arc User
edited February 2012 in General Discussion
because:
  1. the new treasure quest daily drop physical mobs which are immune to all
    wizard skills which help wizard to push back the mob.
    (wizard died on third map/sin solot up to map 4)
  2. most AOEs of Bosses are physical, i could test that by using a magical defense charm, which did not tick after the boss AOE
  3. even if the magic class have range, they do not farm faster, its more likely they farm slower, because they need mana breaks and cant tank so many mobs.
  4. pwi made a special nirvana for casters, because they realized, that pve for magic classes suck.
  5. a 4 aps sin, with the new pve daggers do arround 4k~5k damage on mobs with one hit, a wizard with new pve wep does ~15k with the strongest none spark skill.
    a sin hit 4 times in a second=20k~25k/second , a wizard need 2~3 seconds to cast 7.5k / second or 5k/second
  6. Twillight Temple and normal nirvana suck mana hell outa magic classes
  7. In Morai new mobs are quite all Physical...Doing quest for magic toons it's very difficult....Another gift for sins and BM. (by Sibyll_DeVir - Heavens Tear;16231421)

i know you will troll me but i mean it seriously
Post edited by Cristalwhite - Harshlands on
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  • Damonischer - Lost City
    Damonischer - Lost City Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    why do mag classes always bring up farming and pve just make a alt bm/sin/aps barb if you want to farm and leave mag class to what their good at group pvp and tw
  • Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear
    Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Damonischer - Lost City wrote: »
    why do mag classes always bring up farming and pve just make a alt bm/sin/aps barb if you want to farm and leave mag class to what their good at group pvp and tw

    omg ..where were you earlier ? ... i tried from all my strength to convince ppl that they should make an alt (which is good in PvE) for farm, and keep their main (caster) for PvP.
    - my personal signature -
    - the one who bashes all Caster Nirvana QQers -
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Damonischer - Lost City wrote: »
    why do mag classes always bring up farming and pve just make a alt bm/sin/aps barb if you want to farm and leave mag class to what their good at group pvp and tw

    Because some players hate to play "alt bm/sin/aps barb" and like to play mag classes.
  • RyuTiger - Raging Tide
    RyuTiger - Raging Tide Posts: 308 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Hmmm. I wonder if every single player quit the cleric class. what will happen? IS easy to say "play bm. barb, sin ..." people want to play magic class. Why dont just PWI delete all characters and let sins only? The most stupid suggestion ever. I think they need to make this game fair and classes fair. The mag classes have every reason to be upset about all the things PWI did to them. And is not like go and make a barb because they put time and money on this game and no one will give them back for a new character. They need to start a petition or something really soon.
  • Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear
    Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Because some players hate to play "alt bm/sin/aps barb" and like to play mag classes.

    ...Hate to play a class ? it doesnt mean that you have to make a bm/sin main char. just use it for 3 -4 runs in nirvana per day and use the drops for your caster. is it really that hard ?
    - my personal signature -
    - the one who bashes all Caster Nirvana QQers -
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ...Hate to play a class ? it doesnt mean that you have to make a bm/sin main char. just use it for 3 -4 runs in nirvana per day and use the drops for your caster. is it really that hard ?

    My own opinion - I don't like it.
  • RyuTiger - Raging Tide
    RyuTiger - Raging Tide Posts: 308 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ...Hate to play a class ? it doesnt mean that you have to make a bm/sin main char. just use it for 3 -4 runs in nirvana per day and use the drops for your caster. is it really that hard ?

    To make lvl 100 and have 4-5 aps + rank8-9 is not hard? lol
  • Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear
    Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    My own opinion - I don't like it.

    Then its kinda bad for you, cuz you will be limited by your classes power(which i find fair if you are that lazy).
    RyuTiger - Raging Tide wrote: »
    To make lvl 100 and have 4-5 aps + rank8-9 is not hard? lol

    hmm .. you dont need r9 for farm. Some guy posted on a thread earlier how much it costs to get a 4+ aps sin/bm. Its like 200-300m at max. Its an investment. I lvled up my sin with BH2 xp pills i got on veno + its BH and some FF runs.

    I know that is easier for the ones with aps MAINS ( the ones that dont play em as farm chars - like i am) to get their gear but that doesnt mean they get it that easy or fast.
    - my personal signature -
    - the one who bashes all Caster Nirvana QQers -
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Then its kinda bad for you, cuz you will be limited by your classes power(which i find fair if you are that lazy).

    ...

    Sorry, but I had leveled this char by 6 levels without FC during one week and got about 10 mln coins during same time, so I think that I am not lazy.

    This is my main character.
  • _Belgarion_ - Dreamweaver
    _Belgarion_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 171 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    How about the aps-ers start to complain about mages in PvP? They don't have the range or the spike damage or the aoe's that casters have. If you want to game to be balanced in favour of magic classes in PvE then surely it has to be balanced in PvP too.

    Yes it does take considerable time and effort to make a 4-5 aps class purely for farming with, I wont deny that. My sin has yet to get to even 3.33aps, and I've spent quite a bit of time and coin on him. However I enjoy playing the class, so I don't mind that.

    Personally I think they should change caster nirvana to be identical to normal nirvana - same number of bosses, same drops etc. but remove the need for keys and make it entirely based on talismans. And make it so you can only get either keys or talismans each day from the guy in RT.
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    _Belgarion_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    How about the aps-ers start to complain about mages in PvP? ...

    At PvE server PvP is not so useful like PvE.

    WC is full of messages about Nirvana, FC runs etc.
  • Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear
    Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Sorry, but I had leveled this char by 6 levels without FC during one week and got about 10 mln coins during same time, so I think that I am not lazy.

    This is my main character.

    If your main is lv 54, i dont really understand why are you talking about aps vs casters. At that lvl you cant know how stuff work. Even if your opinion about caster vs aps is not really valid at your lvl, you seem to make money (i donno whut class you are but i dont care eighter) and that means you found a way. If you are a caster, its a prove that there are ways to make money for casters. If you are an "aps user", *** it lol, at that lvl aps wont make a difference.
    The question should not be: " do you like a class or not ?"
    The question should be : "do you want to help yourself or not ? "
    - my personal signature -
    - the one who bashes all Caster Nirvana QQers -
  • _Belgarion_ - Dreamweaver
    _Belgarion_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 171 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    At PvE server PvP is not so useful like PvE.

    WC is full of messages about Nirvana, FC runs etc.

    While the PvE content becomes more boring end game, the PvP content is what keeps many players going as it is more dynamic and more challenging. Granted its not the same as a PvP server, but don't dismiss PvP on a PvE server. TW is still the focus of major factions, and last time i checked that was PvP...
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    If your main is lv 54, i dont really understand why are you talking about aps vs casters...."
    Look in info of my character.

    Recent achievement is level 60 Wizard.

    And I know what mean high aps character because saw it from character at other account.

    How world bosses can be killed during few minutes ... or something like that and how fast some aps users can get aggro.
    Example, I don't think, that Wizard can do same:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XswqxdFEQ14

    And he is one only.
  • Sibyll_DeVir - Heavens Tear
    Sibyll_DeVir - Heavens Tear Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Cristalwhite - Harshlands wrote: »
    because:
    1. the new treasure quest daily drop physical mobs which are immune to all
      wizard skills which help wizard to push back the mob.
      (wizard died on third map/sin solot up to map 4)
    2. most AOEs of Bosses are physical, i could test that by using a magical defense charm, which did not tick after the boss AOE
    3. even if the magic class have range, they do not farm faster, its more likely they farm slower, because they need mana breaks and cant tank so many mobs.
    4. pwi made a special nirvana for casters, because they realized, that pve for magic classes suck.
    5. a 4 aps sin, with the new pve daggers do arround 4k~5k damage on mobs with one hit, a wizard with new pve wep does ~15k with the strongest none spark skill.
      a sin hit 4 times in a second=20k~25k/second , a wizard need 2~3 seconds to cast 7.5k / second or 5k/second
    6. Twillight Temple and normal nirvana suck mana hell outa magic classes

    i know you will troll me but i mean it seriously

    I AGREE with u

    AND I ADD: In Morai new mobs are quite all Physical...Doing quest for magic toons it's very difficult....Another gift for sins and BM.
    TYPICAL SEQUENCE OF A SQUAD FAULT:
    1 - Sin doesnt control his aggro (90% of sins are noobs)
    2 - Sin dies
    3 - Sin asks insistently to be ress (80% of sins are noobs and uneducate)
    4 - Cleric try to ress him (exasperated by asking of the Sin)
    5 - While Cleric ress Tank dies
    6 - All squad die
    7 - LAST THE SIN SAYS: CLERIC IS AN ***!b:angry
  • Yogaxpto - Dreamweaver
    Yogaxpto - Dreamweaver Posts: 273 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Cristalwhite - Harshlands wrote: »
    because:
    1. the new treasure quest daily drop physical mobs which are immune to all
      wizard skills which help wizard to push back the mob.
      (wizard died on third map/sin solot up to map 4)
    2. most AOEs of Bosses are physical, i could test that by using a magical defense charm, which did not tick after the boss AOE
    3. even if the magic class have range, they do not farm faster, its more likely they farm slower, because they need mana breaks and cant tank so many mobs.
    4. pwi made a special nirvana for casters, because they realized, that pve for magic classes suck.
    5. a 4 aps sin, with the new pve daggers do arround 4k~5k damage on mobs with one hit, a wizard with new pve wep does ~15k with the strongest none spark skill.
      a sin hit 4 times in a second=20k~25k/second , a wizard need 2~3 seconds to cast 7.5k / second or 5k/second
    6. Twillight Temple and normal nirvana suck mana hell outa magic classes

    i know you will troll me but i mean it seriously
    worn treasure map mobs don't even aggro if you attack them from max range. ijs
    Trolling since September 2008b:victory

    Don't worry. I might stop trolling and say something useful... One day....
  • Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear
    Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Look in info of my character.

    Recent achievement is level 60 Wizard.

    And I know what mean high aps character because saw it from character at other account.

    How world bosses can be killed during few minutes ... or something like that and how fast some aps users can get aggro.

    I dont understand what you mean by this.

    At that lvl you cant have any idea about the trouble youll have @ lv 100+, where gears cost hundreds of milions and if you dont charge, you really need to work for your cash.

    I admire you tho, for being able to make cash at that lvl. I remember 3 years ago, i rushed to lv 100 on my veno. At lv 62 i had enough cash to buy a herc (20m - hard to get that much cash back then - gold was around 120k each ) and then it was piece of cake.

    @ that video ... that is not PWI
    - my personal signature -
    - the one who bashes all Caster Nirvana QQers -
  • Takeva - Heavens Tear
    Takeva - Heavens Tear Posts: 359 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    _Belgarion_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    How about the aps-ers start to complain about mages in PvP? They don't have the range or the spike damage or the aoe's that casters have. If you want to game to be balanced in favour of magic classes in PvE then surely it has to be balanced in PvP too.

    Yes it does take considerable time and effort to make a 4-5 aps class purely for farming with, I wont deny that. My sin has yet to get to even 3.33aps, and I've spent quite a bit of time and coin on him. However I enjoy playing the class, so I don't mind that.

    Personally I think they should change caster nirvana to be identical to normal nirvana - same number of bosses, same drops etc. but remove the need for keys and make it entirely based on talismans. And make it so you can only get either keys or talismans each day from the guy in RT.

    LOL look up the new skills BMs get for PvP. A sin can easliy take down a magic class. They have 2 Instant teleports and one that stuns to stop our AoE.

    PvP is equal. It's about skill. b:chuckle
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ...
    @ that video ... that is not PWI

    Those was just example.

    Assassin is version independent.
  • Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear
    Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Those was just example.

    Assassin is version independent.

    No its not. Because, if you get +12 r9 full gears and some Tweaked items (like private servers give ), ofcourse its easy. Archers can do that, Barbs can do that, Magic classes can do that - its slower cuz cast times make it that way but its not even close to an example to PWI.
    - my personal signature -
    - the one who bashes all Caster Nirvana QQers -
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    No its not. Because, if you get +12 r9 full gears and some Tweaked items (like private servers give ), ofcourse its easy. Archers can do that, Barbs can do that, Magic classes can do that - its slower cuz cast times make it that way but its not even close to an example to PWI.

    1. Wizards have not Bloodpaint, so they must heal themselves , this can reduce dps of Wizard in solo run or they must use their HP charm much more than Assassins.
    2. Same for other caster classes.

    It is known for player of any level and with any equipment.
    Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ...Magic classes can do that - its slower cuz cast times make it that way ...
    Really, it is true.

    And AA users have bad defense from physical attacks in comparison with LA and HA users.

    LA and HA casters have even worse dps and dph than AA users.
  • Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear
    Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    1. Wizards have not Bloodpaint, so they must heal themselves , this can reduce dps of Wizard in solo run or use their HP charm much more than Assassins.
    2. Same for other caster classes.

    It is known for player of any level and with any equipment.


    Really, it is true.

    And AA users have bad defense from physical attacks in comparison with LA and HA users.

    LA and HA casters have even worse dps and dph than AA users.

    About wizards, phys def... you know that wizards have the most phys def buffs in game right ? a +12 r9 wizard full buffed ( by all classes ) would have ALOT of phys def.
    Not all bosses are melee only, from what i know, most of em will attack magic if you dont go near them.
    But again, private servers do not count as examples.
    - my personal signature -
    - the one who bashes all Caster Nirvana QQers -
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    About wizards, phys def... you know that wizards have the most phys def buffs in game right ? a +12 r9 wizard full buffed ( by all classes ) would have ALOT of phys def.
    Not all bosses are melee only, from what i know, most of em will attack magic if you dont go near them ...

    But we are talking about pwi, are not we ?

    And OP is a Wizard, which said about problem with mobs/bosses with physical attacks.

    Also she said about low dps of Wizards in comparison with aps-able classes.
  • Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear
    Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    But we are talking about pwi, are not we ?

    And OP is a Wizard, which said about problem with mobs/bosses with physical attacks.

    next time tell me when you ditch a subject :P.
    - my personal signature -
    - the one who bashes all Caster Nirvana QQers -
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    This thread is proof that idiots will end up making PW change all classes to be the same.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Amea - Heavens Tear
    Amea - Heavens Tear Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    after much frustration and complaining and vowing I would never make an aps toon, I finally went out and made one with the feeling that I would hate it. I ended up enjoying it, however, I still use a caster as my TW main. My favorite classes are casters...but now I have one of each.

    Yes, spending money on one is an investment, and there's ways to make money. Wizzies can go to BH100 and that does make money.

    you can whine and complain and whatnot all day, it's not going to change overnight, and probably not for a while. Either adapt or quit complaining. We are all taught at a young age that whining doesn't get us what we want.

    However, I wouldn't mind having a skill for casters where we get some of our hp back per hit hahaha, it'd be so amusing.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    There can be no darkness without light, for without the other, the first cannot be understood. They always work in perfect balance.
  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    RyuTiger - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Hmmm. I wonder if every single player quit the cleric class. what will happen? IS easy to say "play bm. barb, sin ..." people want to play magic class.

    That is a good point, but on the other hand, all it would do is delay when you could do things, even before the fish class existed this was no different. Casters are support classes. Aside full delta, any instance(fb's ect) in the game can be done without a caster. All this just comes from the melee vs caster nirvana qq war and that the caster nirvana glitch was corrected.
    Marine - Marshall - Raging Tides - Retired
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    Yes, because people really need 900+ dex or 1000+ magic just for the lulz
  • MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear
    MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,377 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    If people don't find it fun or fair anymore... well, just quit. b:surrender

    I know these not a nice suggestion, but it better than hoping for changes that may never come..

    Find something else that more fair b:sad also more fun than typical grind, farming, or expensive pvp..
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Sorry i speak engrish b:chuckle
    Nickname doesn't have anything to do with sailor but related to a folklore
    Use search, it was your best friends to avoid many suffering in internet...
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    If people don't find it fun or fair anymore... well, just quit. b:surrender

    Look at Suggestions forum, sticked thread.

    There is one of Wizards - Vorhs - Lost City, which proposed changes ... I not saw his posts since start of 2011.
    Vorhs - Lost City wrote: »
    ...
    - "-X interval between hits" stat should be percentual % instead of linear decrease. (This way fists/claws/daggers will be more balanced in PVE and slower weapons would get more improvement from -int gear)
    ...
  • TheDendra - Harshlands
    TheDendra - Harshlands Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Are sins complaining about pvp balance? Have I gone blind or aren't the sins that lil class that can **** r9s with r8 gear? Only thing that has a slight edge over sins is a r9+12 psy - and from what I hear seekers hold their ground pretty good as well.

    Now as for TW - sins are still a useful class, they can focus on key targets and taking them out. It's not like sins are utterly useless in TW like casters are useless in normal nirvana. Same goes for other classes, while I would agree to an extent that this game's pvp balance isn't quite there, it is still 10000 times closer to being balanced than pve is.

    And theoretically, even if pvp was as broken as pve was, this topic would still be related to pve alone and would have nothing to do with pvp aspect of the game.


    The issue at hand is that we are literally forced to reroll an aps class if we want to play pve content - is there even a need to mention literally every aspect of this game that aps classes own? I.e. CoA event, gl doing it when you got a 5aps sin farming next to you and sure enough there are phys. immune mobs which will allow you to farm 1/20 of what that sin will in the same event.

    Not to mention aps classes get bp which reduces their costs even more, as most of the time they get healed more than bosses can hit them for per second. How the hell is this game balanced when 1aps sin can solo tt3-3 bosses 20times faster than a full squad of casters can? Same goes for fc in which they kill bosses in 5seconds - so much about the "op casters damage".

    Only two caster classes that hit hard are wizards and psys. Wiz have high spike damage but their dps sux, meanwhile psys are the closest thing to aps in terms of dps but they're still 50times worse in pve.

    I've never ever played a game that had this broken pve with certain classes having 50times higher dps than all others classes - and cherry on top, players not finding anything odd about it.

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