Give Psychics SoulPaint
Comments
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Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide wrote: »I just picked Psy since it's the sin counterpart. Any caster class could receive this buff really. And yeh R9 casters would be OP with this, but no more OP than a R9 4.0 Sage sin in PvE.
And lets face it, if you've spent the time or cash to get R9, you're OP one way or the other.
Seeker COULD complain about the upkeep of vortex vs upkeep of DB with SoulPaint, but I don't think it would be justified. They can accomplish just as much if not more with Vortex and BP as a wiz could with DB and SoulPaint.
Yeh Archer's get screwed, but the smart thing to do would be to A) make them able to receive BP, or SoulPaint (not both). Or B.) give them a damn self buff of a similar nature.
I'm a little surprised to see a caster opposing an idea that would help put them on similar footing as APS chars. with BP
b:surrender Sadly I'm only allowed to heal and not DD so it really doesn't benefit me, the major reason behind my opposition to it is just not wanting for more QQ. If we get it great, will people stop QQing about BP not really since sins will still solo everything, if we do get it though I can guarantee you aps will start QQing. So there's really no fair solution either way, and such a skill would be a play to balance to where its actually useful/over powered. Overall seems like a lot of work for little gain0 -
Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »Would it work on skills like pet heal? -daydreams about afk TT-boss soloing by holding down the pet heal key with teh soulpaint buff-
Lol I don't think Veno's need any help soloing things from the heals dept. Maybe something that would speed them up would be nice though.0 -
Karen_Divine - Sanctuary wrote: »b:chuckle Than if its so worthless why even bother xD could just use pots.
If you think its so worthless we shouldnt ask for it, you should think its so worthless to say no to.
Dont assume that wizards like using pots when aps can attack anything. Healing the expecting 200-500 a second could be a fantastic way to farm or grind, and in PvP sense fights are over too fast anyway!0 -
my mains are both melee classes but i think this is a great idea b:victory
let's make this official... everyone ok with OP's skill name, soulpaint? b:chuckle0 -
Karen_Divine - Sanctuary wrote: »b:surrender Sadly I'm only allowed to heal and not DD so it really doesn't benefit me, the major reason behind my opposition to it is just not wanting for more QQ. If we get it great, will people stop QQing about BP not really since sins will still solo everything, if we do get it though I can guarantee you aps will start QQing. So there's really no fair solution either way, and such a skill would be a play to balance to where its actually useful/over powered. Overall seems like a lot of work for little gain
Why would they QQ =? Casters would same little to no HP POts/Charm but nearly any MP Pots/Charms while aps have it vise versa and they would still be way OPed compared to casters xD so why would they QQ it would just give caster at least something, better then nothing at all.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I am really honered, ty b:victory
My Chars:
101 Demon Blademaster. 101 Demon Barbarian,
100 Sage Seeker, 100 Sage Cleric, 100 Demon Assassin,
101 Demon Cleric, 93 Demon Archer, 101 Sage Venomancer,
89 Demon Psychic, 100 Sage Mystic, 100 Demon Wizard0 -
Karen_Divine - Sanctuary wrote: »b:surrender Sadly I'm only allowed to heal and not DD so it really doesn't benefit me, the major reason behind my opposition to it is just not wanting for more QQ. If we get it great, will people stop QQing about BP not really since sins will still solo everything, if we do get it though I can guarantee you aps will start QQing. So there's really no fair solution either way, and such a skill would be a play to balance to where its actually useful/over powered. Overall seems like a lot of work for little gain
I'm aps, and I suggested it o.O
If people QQ about something that helps balance the game, they have serious issues b:surrender
And who is to say you couldn't benefit from it? I mean I was just suggesting an idea with a base, it's open for modification of course.
Hell maybe we can get enough support were it's worth pushing up the general idea to Frankie and up the chain-of-command from there. I wouldn't expect to see it anytime in the next 6 months...but hell it's maintenance and I'm bored.0 -
Red_Fatalis - Harshlands wrote: »my mains are both melee classes but i think this is a great idea b:victory
let's make this official... everyone ok with OP's skill name, soulpaint? b:chuckle
^this and yaeh Soulpaint sounds very nice^^[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I am really honered, ty b:victory
My Chars:
101 Demon Blademaster. 101 Demon Barbarian,
100 Sage Seeker, 100 Sage Cleric, 100 Demon Assassin,
101 Demon Cleric, 93 Demon Archer, 101 Sage Venomancer,
89 Demon Psychic, 100 Sage Mystic, 100 Demon Wizard0 -
Oh yeeeeeah that's what i'm talking about!Filling the forums with idiocy since 2/2/2012 b:pleased
Main - lvl 101 R8 Mystic - Dariboo
Inactive on PWI. I still play PW, just...elsewhere0 -
On a side note....what the hell did I just start b:chuckle0
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JSXJoe - Sanctuary wrote: »Why would they QQ =? Casters would same little to no HP POts/Charm but nearly any MP Pots/Charms while aps have it vise versa and they would still be way OPed compared to casters xD so why would they QQ it would just give caster at least something, better then nothing at all.
This is on online game sadly so they'll find a reason to QQ regardless of any balancing done. It would be interesting to see a skill like this, dont get me wrong I'm still against it due to a belief of it being over powered/un-balanced. But I also cant see a major purpose of it like the one BP serves, it might just be the fact its 12:30 am and I've had no coffee all day but it just seems a bit pointless towards the end.0 -
@ The people that are trying to 'show' how much hp a caster would gain back, I for one think your thinking is not near as in depth as it could/should be. (I do wonder if that bm has ever been in a mass tw/pvp fight.... either way my opinion differs, and probably wont change from this thread no matter how much it is debated.) It is extremely difficult to kill a wizard/psychic before they 1 shot ko your *** especially on a bm even with marrows going full blast.
A wizard/psy could easily have ridiculously fast channeling, and their cooldown on their skills isn't that long either. A skill that adds any amount of hp would be fairly overpowered for casters, they easily hit 10x-30x harder than my bm, even in pve. Granted aps has overtaken the servers, and a "soulpaint" would do little to change the status quo as far as pve goes, but it would make it even harder to kill a mage class in pvp. All it would take for a wizard/psy to stay alive for a prolonged period in pvp is fairly decent phys def (some have 20k+), a charm, and this soulpaint, and it would become extremely difficult to kill them in pvp. (Oh can't forget how easy it could be to hit 10k + (each person) on a group of meleers... that could easily restore a r9 wiz/psy to full health xd lol... hell they hit pretty damn hard on other magic classes too. ;x lol)
The mana wouldn't do much... but maybe take away from pwe's profit from charms/food, (from tokens) which I don't really see pwe 'allowing' that to happen. No one likes painting themselves into a corner so to speak. (It's not smart to take away from profit, at least if that's what your after, and sadly that's all pwe seems to be after most of the time.)Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick
What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)0 -
" While balancing for PvP, one also has to take into account the PvE aspect. A R9 wizzie can hit extremely hard in PvE, a R9 psychic can hit almost the same. Those 2 classes would be able to go without HP or MP pots for pretty much any instance, because of their ability to hit like a freakin' tank.
In short, we would then see the reign of the casters... "
Good sence of ration. All casters complain about PvE being unfair to them. I should complain about the fact that Casters can 1 hit almost everyone in PvP. Its a balance and i think its perfect like this. I wouldnt like to see a class which is good on both, because that would be OP. I remember, back in the days, when veno was best farmer and one of the best in PvP too. That was OP and unfair - yea i had a veno - but hey, you gotta do something.
Im more like.. if i see an op class, i make a char of that class and get the good parts ! farm my *** out or pk or whatever and then just get funds for my main class. Thats why i got a sin now !Elronia - Heavens Tear wrote: »wouldnt be quite as over powered as you think really yes in the perfect scenario a rank 9 wiz or psy with your soulpaint would be abit ott. But we not all rank 9 are we?
A wiz only able to cast every 2-6 seconds depends on skill. The reason its so overpowered on sins is cos they hitting at 3.33 an up attacks per second. A wiz can never achieve that speed constantly due to long cast times of pretty much every skill they use. Even with sutra active your looking at a maximum of 4 skills used while effect is active.
What would it do for me a wizzie? I'd prolly end up spamming pyrogram, gush an stone rain alot cos they resonably fast to cast. I dun wanna spam them no more i done it for over 3 yearsb:laugh
we are not all 4 -5 aps are we ? :P- my personal signature -
- the one who bashes all Caster Nirvana QQers -0 -
Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide wrote: »On a side note....what the hell did I just start b:chuckle
Well you started something great I guess. I love playing all Classes and yeah Casters are fantastique xD Great Idea to give them at least something^^[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I am really honered, ty b:victory
My Chars:
101 Demon Blademaster. 101 Demon Barbarian,
100 Sage Seeker, 100 Sage Cleric, 100 Demon Assassin,
101 Demon Cleric, 93 Demon Archer, 101 Sage Venomancer,
89 Demon Psychic, 100 Sage Mystic, 100 Demon Wizard0 -
No that'll be ridiculous unless they gave every melee class Mp restore skill... Every Magic class has a healing skill.. Every melee class doesn't..0
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Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »
The mana wouldn't do much... but maybe take away from pwe's profit from charms/food, (from tokens) which I don't really see pwe 'allowing' that to happen. No one likes painting themselves into a corner so to speak. (It's not smart to take away from profit, at least if that's what your after, and sadly that's all pwe seems to be after most of the time.)
Why is it that aps classes can BP to not use HP pots, but you are saying soulpaint replaces the need for mana pots?
If BP didnt exist, imagine the price of crab meats....
To bring up the only fair and elite example.
APS with bloodpaint can solo a nirvana without requiring a healer.
Casters with soulpaint should be able to do the same. (Im not saying dont invite a cleric, im just saying they shouldnt need to heal all the time).
Most APS classes can solo whatever they please, including killing magic mobs, though magic classes cant solo physical ones. Tell me why HA aps can kill magic mobs but AA -chan classes cant kill physical mobs? Proof that the PvE isnt fair.0 -
ToneiLuL - Heavens Tear wrote: »No that'll be ridiculous unless they gave every melee class Mp restore skill... Every Magic class has a healing skill.. Every melee class doesn't..
Most melee classes use very little mana in comparison. A Plat MP charm lasts me like 2 months lol.0 -
Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »@ The people that are trying to 'show' how much hp a caster would gain back, I for one think your thinking is not near as in depth as it could/should be. (I do wonder if that bm has ever been in a mass tw/pvp fight.... either way my opinion differs, and probably wont change from this thread no matter how much it is debated.) It is extremely difficult to kill a wizard/psychic before the 1 shot ko your *** especially on a bm even with marrows going full blast.
A wizard/psy could easily have ridiculously fast channeling, and their cooldown on their skills isn't that long either. A skill that adds any amount of hp would be fairly overpowered for casters, they easily hit 10x-30x harder than my bm, even in pve. Granted aps has overtaken the server, and a "soulpaint" would do little to change the status quo as far as pve goes, but it would make it even harder to kill a mage class in pvp. All it would take for a wizard/psy to stay alive for a prolonged period in pvp is fairly decent phys def (some have 20k+), a charm, and this soulpaint, and it would become extremely difficult to kill them in pvp. (Oh can't forget how easy it could be to hit 10k + on a group of meleers.. that could easily restore a r9 wiz/psy to full health xd lol)
The mana wouldn't do much... but maybe take away from pwe's profit from charms/food, (from tokens) which I don't really see pwe 'allowing' that to happen. No one likes painting themselves into a corner so to speak. (It's not smart to take away from profit, at least if that's what your after, and sadly that's all pwe seems to be after most of the time.)
You are doing one massive mistake here...you compare stronger Casters to weaker aps Chars. if you're 2,86 I would compare you to r8+5 Wiz's and Psys and not to r9 +12. You need to compare it in a realistic way, but it seems everyone on any server is unable to. I dont QQ if I get blasted away from some r9 Guys, because I have no r9 and would they have the same equip level as I do...they wouldn't be able to blast me away, it's just simple as that. If they got better gears then u most likely u will loose, get over it and nothing like "SOulpaint" would change any of this.
BTW: 10k+ on a group of about 6 ppl are 600 HP...yeah Fully restored HP^^ ofc[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I am really honered, ty b:victory
My Chars:
101 Demon Blademaster. 101 Demon Barbarian,
100 Sage Seeker, 100 Sage Cleric, 100 Demon Assassin,
101 Demon Cleric, 93 Demon Archer, 101 Sage Venomancer,
89 Demon Psychic, 100 Sage Mystic, 100 Demon Wizard0 -
ToneiLuL - Heavens Tear wrote: »No that'll be ridiculous unless they gave every melee class Mp restore skill... Every Magic class has a healing skill.. Every melee class doesn't..
Healing skills arent passive like bloodpaint is.0 -
Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »@ The people that are trying to 'show' how much hp a caster would gain back, I for one think your thinking is not near as in depth as it could/should be. (I do wonder if that bm has ever been in a mass tw/pvp fight.... either way my opinion differs, and probably wont change from this thread no matter how much it is debated.) It is extremely difficult to kill a wizard/psychic before they 1 shot ko your *** especially on a bm even with marrows going full blast.
A wizard/psy could easily have ridiculously fast channeling, and their cooldown on their skills isn't that long either. A skill that adds any amount of hp would be fairly overpowered for casters, they easily hit 10x-30x harder than my bm, even in pve. Granted aps has overtaken the servers, and a "soulpaint" would do little to change the status quo as far as pve goes, but it would make it even harder to kill a mage class in pvp. All it would take for a wizard/psy to stay alive for a prolonged period in pvp is fairly decent phys def (some have 20k+), a charm, and this soulpaint, and it would become extremely difficult to kill them in pvp. (Oh can't forget how easy it could be to hit 10k + (each person) on a group of meleers... that could easily restore a r9 wiz/psy to full health xd lol... hell they hit pretty damn hard on other magic classes too. ;x lol)
The mana wouldn't do much... but maybe take away from pwe's profit from charms/food, (from tokens) which I don't really see pwe 'allowing' that to happen. No one likes painting themselves into a corner so to speak. (It's not smart to take away from profit, at least if that's what your after, and sadly that's all pwe seems to be after most of the time.)
I can definitely understand your point of view. But hell if they can disable bramble in PvP, they should be able to do the same for BP and SoulPaint.0 -
Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »@ The people that are trying to 'show' how much hp a caster would gain back, I for one think your thinking is not near as in depth as it could/should be. (I do wonder if that bm has ever been in a mass tw/pvp fight.... either way my opinion differs, and probably wont change from this thread no matter how much it is debated.) It is extremely difficult to kill a wizard/psychic before they 1 shot ko your *** especially on a bm even with marrows going full blast.
A wizard/psy could easily have ridiculously fast channeling, and their cooldown on their skills isn't that long either. A skill that adds any amount of hp would be fairly overpowered for casters, they easily hit 10x-30x harder than my bm, even in pve. Granted aps has overtaken the servers, and a "soulpaint" would do little to change the status quo as far as pve goes, but it would make it even harder to kill a mage class in pvp. All it would take for a wizard/psy to stay alive for a prolonged period in pvp is fairly decent phys def (some have 20k+), a charm, and this soulpaint, and it would become extremely difficult to kill them in pvp. (Oh can't forget how easy it could be to hit 10k + (each person) on a group of meleers... that could easily restore a r9 wiz/psy to full health xd lol... hell they hit pretty damn hard on other magic classes too. ;x lol)
The mana wouldn't do much... but maybe take away from pwe's profit from charms/food, (from tokens) which I don't really see pwe 'allowing' that to happen. No one likes painting themselves into a corner so to speak. (It's not smart to take away from profit, at least if that's what your after, and sadly that's all pwe seems to be after most of the time.)
Mind comparing this situation to a sin versus a group of Arcane armor? Lets say 6 arcane armors and sage BP. If the sin hits 5ks that's 30k total which means about 900hp. Hell, the sin could possibly hit this hard on r9 people. How would soulpaint be any different?0 -
JSXJoe - Sanctuary wrote: »You are doing one massive mistake here...you compare stronger Casters to weaker aps Chars. if you're 2,86 I would compare you to r8+5 Wiz's and Psys and not to r9 +12. You need to compare it in a realistic way, but it seems everyone on any server is unable to. I dont QQ if I get blasted away from some r9 Guys, because I have no r9 and would they have the same equip level as I do...they wouldn't be able to blast me away, it's just simple as that. If they got better gears then u most likely u will loose, get over it and nothing like "SOulpaint" would change any of this.
BTW: 10k+ on a group of about 6 ppl are 600 HP...yeah Fully restored HP^^ ofc
I second that. I saw alot of ppl talkin about r9+12 like its free and everyone has it lol.- my personal signature -
- the one who bashes all Caster Nirvana QQers -0 -
izzyhalsall wrote: »Why is it that aps classes can BP to not use HP pots, but you are saying soulpaint replaces the need for mana pots?
If BP didnt exist, imagine the price of crab meats....
To bring up the only fair and elite example.
APS with bloodpaint can solo a nirvana without requiring a healer.
Casters with soulpaint should be able to do the same. (Im not saying dont invite a cleric, im just saying they shouldnt need to heal all the time).
Most APS classes can solo whatever they please, including killing magic mobs, though magic classes cant solo physical ones. Tell me why HA aps can kill magic mobs but AA -chan classes cant kill physical mobs? Proof that the PvE isnt fair.
I said maybe... I didn't say it would take it away completely.
... xD (It probably wouldn't cut deep into it... but it would still cut into it.) We all know how much mana gets drained with skills. (Seekers, mystics, wizards, venos, archers, and clerics being the obvious big ones.) An mp regain skill could definitely cut back on the need of that for a lot of people... argo would cut into pwe's profit... argo I don't see pwe 'allowing' that too happen.
Since when can't magic classes solo physical bosses? It isn't easy I admit but it is more then doable.Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick
What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)0 -
Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear wrote: »I second that. I saw alot of ppl talkin about r9+12 like its free and everyone has it lol.Haruzi - Lost City wrote: »Mind comparing this situation to a sin versus a group of Arcane armor?
sin will be 1 hit.- my personal signature -
- the one who bashes all Caster Nirvana QQers -0 -
Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »I said maybe... I didn't say it would take it away completely.... xD (It probably wouldn't cut deep into it... but it would still cut into it.) We all know how much mana gets drained with skills. (Seekers, mystics, wizards, venos, archers, and clerics being the obvious big ones.) An mp regain skill could definitely cut back on the need of that for a lot of people... argo would cut into pwe's profit... argo I don't see pwe 'allowing' that too happen.
Since when can't magic classes solo physical bosses? It isn't easy I admit but it is more then doable.
Doable yes, but the conditions to meet it are harder.
I am NV-R8 +5 all over wizard, and i know sins that are HH99 R8 (ignoring refines, i know they arent +4 on everything). In frost the sin will still survive better against magic mobs than i do physical mobs. So why have i put more currency, gold or farm, time and effort in, when the conditions to be able to fight your opponent are met elsewhere?
HA and AA should be fair and equal, so HA+10 should defend just aswell against AA+10 (in respective areas of the game), however this is not true.0 -
sure why not... a good sin can easily take em out ... aproach in hide... maze-step + 12 second immun-pot... kill 1 2 3 4 back in hide xD0
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Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear wrote: »I second that. I saw alot of ppl talkin about r9+12 like its free and everyone has it lol.
True and thats the point, the lower the gear level, the more useless the absorbing effect...Just a comperasion of my 2,86 sparked Barb and my gfs Wizard on the german server...While I can easily kill all normal Mobs in TT2-3 without extra healing she can't. Not even something like Soulpaint would change that. She got good gears yeah but she is still a squishy caster and there is no way she could survive those mobs with just 1% of HP restored with each attack, while I can with nearly no efforts. And we got the same gear level.
We shouldn't compare r9 and 5.0 all the time, thats true. But I just wanted to say that it wouldn't really matter even if it was compared like this.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I am really honered, ty b:victory
My Chars:
101 Demon Blademaster. 101 Demon Barbarian,
100 Sage Seeker, 100 Sage Cleric, 100 Demon Assassin,
101 Demon Cleric, 93 Demon Archer, 101 Sage Venomancer,
89 Demon Psychic, 100 Sage Mystic, 100 Demon Wizard0 -
Pyrogasm - Heavens Tear wrote: »sin will be 1 hit.
I lol'd so hard at this. We're talking about an r9 sin since the person who made the comparison used an r9 wizzy. I don't know about you, but a sin is not a one hit unless the wizzy gets double debuff, spark(genie skill), and maybe even have to three spark that blade tempest and crit. Unless you're saying the sin is getting ganked here by all 6 AA.0 -
JSXJoe - Sanctuary wrote: »You are doing one massive mistake here...you compare stronger Casters to weaker aps Chars. if you're 2,86 I would compare you to r8+5 Wiz's and Psys and not to r9 +12. You need to compare it in a realistic way, but it seems everyone on any server is unable to. I dont QQ if I get blasted away from some r9 Guys, because I have no r9 and would they have the same equip level as I do...they wouldn't be able to blast me away, it's just simple as that. If they got better gears then u most likely u will loose, get over it and nothing like "SOulpaint" would change any of this.
BTW: 10k+ on a group of about 6 ppl are 600 HP...yeah Fully restored HP^^ ofc
To be fair I seriously doubt a full squad of 2.86 apsers could effectively solo an instance without a healer even with bp on.
I am not saying a r8 +5 wiz/psy would be able too do it any more effectively, but they would definitely be able to survive better even at bosses in my opinion at least. (I really do think the return for magic classes with a 'bp' like skill would simply be too great for them especially in pvp)
You are definitely right about not expecting to really survive against a r9+12 psy/wiz, which I do not either; however, I still get one shotted in tw, (even if they are only r8 +10) even as my gear drastically improves over the years/months I have been playing. (granted their gear has improved too... it is still extremely annoying to improve my gear and still be an easy target for the ridiculously strong mage/range classes. A hp restore... bp like skill would just make it that much harder to kill a mage class, especially when we bms are such easy targets for them. (even when our gear is fairly evenly matched) )Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick
What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)0 -
Haruzi - Lost City wrote: »I lol'd so hard at this. We're talking about an r9 sin since the person who made the comparison used an r9 wizzy. I don't know about you, but a sin is not a one hit unless the wizzy gets double debuff, spark(genie skill), and maybe even have to three spark that blade tempest and crit.
^this and this guy actually never heard of something called "Deaden Nerves" sins cant be 1 hit. period.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I am really honered, ty b:victory
My Chars:
101 Demon Blademaster. 101 Demon Barbarian,
100 Sage Seeker, 100 Sage Cleric, 100 Demon Assassin,
101 Demon Cleric, 93 Demon Archer, 101 Sage Venomancer,
89 Demon Psychic, 100 Sage Mystic, 100 Demon Wizard0 -
Yeah, there's only way to make this even remotely fair - it would have to only restore MP. To have the nuke classes restoring any percentage of damage output as HP would be insanely overpowered, save if it were a fraction of a percent.
Methinks Kritty has both perfectly understood; and missed the point.
Bloodpaint is currently doing this. This (assuming it was made less than 1% that really would be insane) would be a reasonable way to pull the balance back the other way. (Since nerfing bloodpaint seems not to have been accepted)
As a veno, I don't really see any point in more MP regen; (and am still sulking that I can be a foxform tank, with melee mastery as a skill, but can't have paint) - but something like this would be very welcome.
Something needs doing. And my plan of "Just ban all the stinking sins" hasn't gone down well for some reason.0
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