Clerics and Bloodpaint - or lack thereof

lordmot · February 2012

Ok, I am sure others have noticed this many times before, but the effect of Bloodpaint addiction really became evident to me the other day in a BH-SOT run. I was clericing a random squad with 2 Barbs, aps BM, Veno and Archer. Right off the bat, the Barbs run ahead and start wacking on the mobs, I holypath and start healing. I pretty much have to continuously heal both barbs and the BM, HPing from one to the other and throwing a couple of sage IHs on each throughout most of the run.

Fortunately the BM only died once, but had several close calls. I did more healing than I have in months - some runs I end up DDing more than healing. About halfway through the run it occurred to me why...No Bloodpaint. The Veno and Archer were playing with good aggro-management, but the melee toons - especially the aps BM - were playing as if they were invincible. I pointed out that it had been a long time since I was in an Assassinless squad and the BM basically said - "oh... me too." After that things got a little better.

It was a good example to me of how much bloodpaint, especially used in conjunction with aps, has eliminated a lot of the challenge from the game, both for the melees and the clerics.

Liveena - Heavens Tear · February 2012

BP has spoiled many people imo.

Had a lvl 101 BM with BP the other day in BH59, he told me not to heal him since he can recover 300 hp per hit. Later on he decided to pull Drake to Glutt after clearing the mob, on which he died. Later he blame me "why didn't u heal", and I told him that he said he doesn't need healing in the first place.

BP does helpful sometimes, but doesn't mean an aps +BP can replace a barb.

Decus - Dreamweaver · February 2012

Level 101 BM dies in BH59? That sounds like pure stupidity more than being BP-spoiled. My 4 aps 99 archer (which gets no BP) can solo that instance.

Jacerai - Dreamweaver · February 2012

I have found that squads with no sins are kind of fun to heal, especially with several toons that could hold BP.

I like squads that remind me that I used to hate healing ping-pong.

Sukinee - Heavens Tear · February 2012

I was once on an alt to do fb69 and a late level 90s seeker with TT90 green armor and close to 7k hp was the tank. He kept complaining that he can't tank the bosses in 69 without bloodpaint. I kept trying to explain to him that he should be fine. I mean, come on, I have healed a level 85 heavy armored venomancer with only 6k hp and she tanked fine. Back to the seeker, basically this guy ragequit from the squad because I refused to get an assassin for bloodpaint.

If you really feel like you need bloodpaint to tank bosses like those or in most instances, then you seriously need to go back to learning your character, and actually challenge yourself. We did survive without bloodpaint before the Tideborn expansion, and yes, in most cases, we can continue to survive without it. (I'm making an exception for TT3-2/3 because of those buffed bosses, and, as a cleric it does help -___-).

I do agree that players are either addicted to the buff or are just dependent and noobish with it.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · February 2012

When I first hit 100 on my barb and became an aps barb my hp wasn't great. I think around 9-10k standing, 13k tiger? Still, no problem with BH Metal boss until one day I kept dieing over and over until I realized why. No bp. The cleric was already in a hurry and after I died twice they left, we got a sin and killed him clericless with bp alone and no healer. I did the math and triple sparked I was getting around 2.5 times more than an IH spam from bp heals alone.

Also ran an Aba the other day on my BM without paint and I'd go through 4-5 mobs and realize I was almost dead!! Was my gear unequipped or something? Nope, just no bp and I'd... kind of ditched my cleric because I'm not used to having to wait and most clerics don't even try to show up on time of HP around. I didn't die, I just kept forgetting and would get close to dieing before having that "oh right" moment.

When I go through a while where I haven't played my cleric and I'm not sure how rusty I'll be, or I see 4k-5k sins and bms and 10k barbs in my squad I'll ask for a sin for the last spot just as a cushion. Its like a second healer but without the loss of a dd in that spot.

Frijolero - Sanctuary · February 2012

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Level 101 BM dies in BH59? That sounds like pure stupidity more than being BP-spoiled. My 4 aps 99 archer (which gets no BP) can solo that instance.

Sad but true. I once saw a 100 BM dying stupidly on bh59 because he thought he could lure all metal mobs on Zimo's path and just HF+aps them.

I guess he didn't knew, or just forgot that many of those mobs run away when you go melee on them and got metal maged to death, wich was pretty soon due to his crappy metal resistance. He Lured the first group, died, got ressed, lured again, died, called the cleric noob for not keepin' him alive and then he just rq squad before gettin ressed. Good thing cleric was lvl 100, he tanked all bosses easily.

apex1predator · February 2012

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

When I first hit 100 on my barb and became an aps barb my hp wasn't great. I think around 9-10k standing, 13k tiger? Still, no problem with BH Metal boss until one day I kept dieing over and over until I realized why. No bp. The cleric was already in a hurry and after I died twice they left, we got a sin and killed him clericless with bp alone and no healer. I did the math and triple sparked I was getting around 2.5 times more than an IH spam from bp heals alone.

Then that cleric had no heal power whatsoever, or was giving you 1 IH.

If a Cleric has 10k mag attk and lvl 10 IH you should get almost 4k hp heal from 1 IH. So stacked you shouldnt have any problems..unless your resistances are so low that mobs hit you for 2-3k dmg...but thats a diff story.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · February 2012

apex1predator wrote: »

Then that cleric had no heal power whatsoever, or was giving you 1 IH.

If a Cleric has 10k mag attk and lvl 10 IH you should get almost 4k hp heal from 1 IH. So stacked you shouldnt have any problems..unless your resistances are so low that mobs hit you for 2-3k dmg...but thats a diff story.

They were bb'd, which honestly makes my paint more effective since bloodpaint is the bulk of my heals where an IH spam would be about 1/3 of the heal, so bb is more effective by already reducing the damage I take by half.

But my point is I can get 500-2k heals per hit from bloodpaint on [?] bosses, 5 times a second. Since my crit is only 27% lets say thats an average of 800 per heal or 4k hp per second. IH ticks every 3 seconds, so I get 12k hp from paint in that time.

Meanwhile a stack of 5 IHs on a cleric with 10k physical attack is healing me 23500 per 15 seconds, or 4700 per 3 seconds. 12k/4.7k=2.55. Basically my paint would be healing me 2.55 times more than a cleric spamming IH on me, or to look at it another way a cleric spam healing my barb would be giving me about 28% of my total heals.

This plays into the argument of why cleric are being asked to just bb so much more nowadays. They can either provide ~28% of the heals that paint can, or they can bb and reduce damage by 50% + whatever heals bb gives. The real danger for most "tanks" nowadays is being 1 shot, and bb helps prevent that.

Kanmi - Sanctuary · February 2012

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

This plays into the argument of why cleric are being asked to just bb so much more nowadays. They can either provide ~28% of the heals that paint can, or they can bb and reduce damage by 50% + whatever heals bb gives. The real danger for most "tanks" nowadays is being 1 shot, and bb helps prevent that.

Out ot warsong metal and Delta where else do you asked a cleric to BB ? When most squad would drop boss before cleric can set BB...
TT ? I don't set BB in 3-2 and 3-3 (except for Arma)
If the "tank" can be one shot while "tanking" i really recommand him to go increase his survivability instead of thinking " YAY i got +12 fist and +2 Armor !!! I got BP, i'm super awesome but i need BB cause i'll get one shot

"

Come on... People blame cleric for not having refine on armor, don't bring an example of a fail "tank" with good dps but nothing else...

apex1predator · February 2012

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

They were bb'd, which honestly makes my paint more effective since bloodpaint is the bulk of my heals where an IH spam would be about 1/3 of the heal, so bb is more effective by already reducing the damage I take by half.

But my point is I can get 500-2k heals per hit from bloodpaint on [?] bosses, 5 times a second. Since my crit is only 27% lets say thats an average of 800 per heal or 4k hp per second. IH ticks every 3 seconds, so I get 12k hp from paint in that time.

Meanwhile a stack of 5 IHs on a cleric with 10k physical attack is healing me 23500 per 15 seconds, or 4700 per 3 seconds. 12k/4.7k=2.55. Basically my paint would be healing me 2.55 times more than a cleric spamming IH on me, or to look at it another way a cleric spam healing my barb would be giving me about 28% of my total heals.

This plays into the argument of why cleric are being asked to just bb so much more nowadays. They can either provide ~28% of the heals that paint can, or they can bb and reduce damage by 50% + whatever heals bb gives. The real danger for most "tanks" nowadays is being 1 shot, and bb helps prevent that.

So youre doing 100k-500k dmg on a [?] boss per second? a +12 r9 sin could maybe zerk crit a fully amped boss for 170k. Assuming he does this 4 times he will do just under 700k dmg in a second. I'm really curious to know how you manage to DD on par with a R9 sin.
My R8 sin hits 60k dmg on a fully amped boss..and thats max crit with +8 dags and ive never had a BM out DD me.

Decus - Dreamweaver · February 2012

apex1predator wrote: »

So youre doing 100k-500k dmg on a [?] boss per second? a +12 r9 sin could maybe zerk crit a fully amped boss for 170k. Assuming he does this 4 times he will do just under 700k dmg in a second. I'm really curious to know how you manage to DD on par with a R9 sin.
My R8 sin hits 60k dmg on a fully amped boss..and thats max crit with +8 dags and ive never had a BM out DD me.

Your math is a tad off, unless I also fail at simple proportions. Assuming sage BP, he would be hitting 16.7k - 66.7k to receive that kind of BP heal, which is 83.5k - 333.5k per second. Either way, I'd also like to know how you get such high heals. On fully amped bosses, my +10 sin gets maybe 500 - 600 on the high end of the spectrum. As a caveat, though, I am as good a sin as I am a cleric (which is to say, really bad).

apex1predator · February 2012

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Your math is a tad off, unless I also fail at simple proportions. Assuming sage BP, he would be hitting 16.7k - 66.7k to receive that kind of BP heal, which is 83.5k - 333.5k per second. Either way, I'd also like to know how you get such high heals. On fully amped bosses, my +10 sin gets maybe 500 - 600 on the high end of the spectrum. As a caveat, though, I am as good a sin as I am a cleric (which is to say, really bad).

I used Standard BP not sage(since 95% of the sins are demon). The math adds up then

Vecilia - Raging Tide · February 2012

lol that sounds like a monkey of a blademaster... im a lv 91 cleric and i could take on 2 of those bosses at the same time easily. especially glutt and drake... those bosses are childs play

cheesecan · February 2012

I have noticed that squads tend to mad rush in when i'm cleric-ing for them.

As if i can be there faster than a barb with Holy Path.

...but that is just nabs being nabs (usually) and not understanding the significance of saying "rdy?" before they pull. Then, the aggro goes all around the squad and it is healing ping pong like Jacerai mentioned.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · February 2012

apex1predator wrote: »

So youre doing 100k-500k dmg on a [?] boss per second?

apex1predator wrote: »

I used Standard BP not sage(since 95% of the sins are demon). The math adds up then

I claimed 500-2k heals, so 25k-100k dph with demon bp and was talking with a squad. This includes HF,debuffs, and other amps, so yes a 100k crit is reasonable. I'm pointing out the high end of damage since with one or two high DDs in a Metal squad and the boss won't even survive as long as the HF.

Kanmi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Out ot warsong metal and Delta where else do you asked a cleric to BB ? When most squad would drop boss before cleric can set BB...
TT ? I don't set BB in 3-2 and 3-3 (except for Arma)
If the "tank" can be one shot while "tanking" i really recommand him to go increase his survivability instead of thinking " YAY i got +12 fist and +2 Armor !!! I got BP, i'm super awesome but i need BB cause i'll get one shot "

Come on... People blame cleric for not having refine on armor, don't bring an example of a fail "tank" with good dps but nothing else...

Clerics are asked to BB in all sorts of pre 100+ instances, too. Bosses don't drop "that" quick. Fushma, sometimes Rankar, Zimo, Qianji, Ofo, Pyro, Brig, Linus, Styg, Hooli, all 6 BH 89 bosses, almost every BH100 bosses (depending on squad make-up). Countless quest bosses. Some FCC bosses. Some card bosses. Most of 1-1 - 3-1. World Bosses. Lunar Bosses...

The funny thing is thinking about it now, anytime the cleric wouldn't be bbing I'd prefer just another debuffer/dd. Think about Steelation/Emporer in 3-3. You don't need a bb, but instead of a cleric IH stacking it'd be better just to have another HFer and blow Steel up before he can do anything to really hurt you. However, if he 5 aps (wonder if he get -20% accuracy and -5% damage now too) the damage reduction of bb can save your butt while you get away.

Kanmi - Sanctuary · February 2012

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Clerics are asked to BB in all sorts of pre 100+ instances, too. Bosses don't drop "that" quick. Fushma, sometimes Rankar, Zimo, Qianji, Ofo, Pyro, Brig, Linus, Styg, Hooli, all 6 BH 89 bosses, almost every BH100 bosses (depending on squad make-up). Countless quest bosses. Some FCC bosses. Some card bosses. Most of 1-1 - 3-1. World Bosses. Lunar Bosses...

The funny thing is thinking about it now, anytime the cleric wouldn't be bbing I'd prefer just another debuffer/dd. Think about Steelation/Emporer in 3-3. You don't need a bb, but instead of a cleric IH stacking it'd be better just to have another HFer and blow Steel up before he can do anything to really hurt you. However, if he 5 aps (wonder if he get -20% accuracy and -5% damage now too) the damage reduction of bb can save your butt while you get away.

You set BB in BH 59/79/89 bosses (except baby hellfire cause it's the only one where it would make sense) ??? None got AoE but well if it's all about being BBing like in FCC ( cleric get your @SS off this instance, BB isn't the answer to everything and won't make you a good cleric)

When Steelation goes 5.0, he sleep and stun you lol . You won't set BB at this boss for damage reduction ijs . Until he is purge, gl trying saving your butt .

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver · February 2012

Kanmi - Sanctuary wrote: »

You set BB in BH 59/79/89 bosses (except baby hellfire cause it's the only one where it would make sense) ??? None got AoE but well if it's all about being BBing like in FCC ( cleric get your @SS off this instance, BB isn't the answer to everything and won't make you a good cleric)

When Steelation goes 5.0, he sleep and stun you lol . You won't set BB at this boss for damage reduction ijs . Until he is purge, gl trying saving your butt .

Going through these instances, I have to say that a lot of clerics have been told to use BB on these instances.

For instance...even running with multiple clerics, I've always used BB on every boss in bh79, every boss in bh89, and every boss in the bh100.

I agree that BB is not the answer to everything, and will not make you a good cleric just because you do it, but the fact is that that's what many of us have been trained to do. Squads have told us BB here...BB there. Just use BB on every boss here. On times when I'm just entering an instance for the first time, I let my squad know that is the case, and ask them what it is that I should be doing...whether the bosses AOE, debuff, or have any other tricks, and I ask whether I should be using IH and purify or BB for each of them. Its not necessarily the players fault for doing it that way, and truly if it works it works. We came out alive. BB does work in those instances, so its not necessarily fail. Its just a different way of going about it, and one that some of us have been conditioned to do.

I've used BB in bh59 at times before, but I admit that this dungeon does not need it. IH and purify work just fine here. Even better since none of the bosses AOE at all, and of the five, drake and glutt are the only ones that require purify.

Kanmi - Sanctuary · February 2012

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I agree that BB is not the answer to everything, and will not make you a good cleric just because you do it, but the fact is that that's what many of us have been trained to do. Squads have told us BB here...BB there. Just use BB on every boss here.

You understand that 90% of the squad nowadays, don't know anything about cleric skill out of "BB please" . Someone telling you to BB randomly for like you can see above " reduce damage", clearly lack of knowledge about how to run the instance as cleric (LOL @BB at Steelation and Emperor ) .
Cleric need to adapt to many kind of situation . BB is being interrupted so many times that better have a plan B than be sorry .

Baby_pho - Heavens Tear · February 2012

Kanmi - Sanctuary wrote: »

You set BB in BH 59/79/89 bosses (except baby hellfire cause it's the only one where it would make sense) ??? None got AoE but well if it's all about being BBing like in FCC ( cleric get your @SS off this instance, BB isn't the answer to everything and won't make you a good cleric)

When Steelation goes 5.0, he sleep and stun you lol . You won't set BB at this boss for damage reduction ijs . Until he is purge, gl trying saving your butt .

this is true. i wouldnt bb at steel. u'd better heal out of range and purify. any bosses that stun you. you shouldnt bb there lol

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver · February 2012

Kanmi - Sanctuary wrote: »

You understand that 90% of the squad nowadays, don't know anything about cleric skill out of "BB please" . Someone telling you to BB randomly for like you can see above " reduce damage", clearly lack of knowledge about how to run the instance as cleric (LOL @BB at Steelation and Emperor ) .
Cleric need to adapt to many kind of situation . BB is being interrupted so many times that better have a plan B than be sorry .

I agree that BB at Steelation, Emp, and several other bosses...like Adalwof Runewolf is suicide, and nothing more than a LOL.

What I'm saying is that when you go through an instance for the first time, and ask questions, those are the answers that we tend to get. BB here, and BB there. I fully agree that you'd DEFINATELY had better have a backup plan in case BB falls...as I had to do in several areas...like SOT.

I'm just saying that if BB works in an instance, it works, and if a cleric player asks about it and does it, they're not necessarily fail. However, a word to all clerics...Kanmi is correct that many squads don't know too much about cleric skills, so YOU HAVE to think on your feet, and certain bosses, YOU DO NOT USE BB ON. Pole, Nob, Oceania Master, Steelation, Emperor, Minister, Shocktrooper, Runewolf, Regular Nirvy bosses and several others are nothing more than suicide if you do it there. That said, there are times when it can work. BB in some instances may work as effective as IH'ing will. If the squad survives, then thats what counts. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and thus more than one way to win a fight. BB in Bh79 has worked for me, but its not the only way. If you can keep your squad alive, then that's what counts.

iamcarter · February 2012

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

When I first hit 100 on my barb and became an aps barb my hp wasn't great. I think around 9-10k standing, 13k tiger? Still, no problem with BH Metal boss until one day I kept dieing over and over until I realized why. No bp. The cleric was already in a hurry and after I died twice they left, we got a sin and killed him clericless with bp alone and no healer. I did the math and triple sparked I was getting around 2.5 times more than an IH spam from bp heals alone.

Also ran an Aba the other day on my BM without paint and I'd go through 4-5 mobs and realize I was almost dead!! Was my gear unequipped or something? Nope, just no bp and I'd... kind of ditched my cleric because I'm not used to having to wait and most clerics don't even try to show up on time of HP around. I didn't die, I just kept forgetting and would get close to dieing before having that "oh right" moment.

When I go through a while where I haven't played my cleric and I'm not sure how rusty I'll be, or I see 4k-5k sins and bms and 10k barbs in my squad I'll ask for a sin for the last spot just as a cushion. Its like a second healer but without the loss of a dd in that spot.

IH can stack 7 times without and - chan gear and if its a sage ih with around 8k magic attack it heals a little over 5k over 15 seconds it ticks every 3 seconds so its 5 ticks total thats 1k each tick if you stack it 7 times then thats 7k per tick, also if the cleric is smart they can use WoP for a shell worth 20% of your hp its instant cast so its basically 2k hp instantly which even though it has a long cd is still useful, not to mention without puri many people cant kill even lower lvl mobs like nob or pole once they debuff.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · February 2012

People are acting like I'm saying you "have" to bb or that there is only one way for a cleric to heal at a boss, and then going out of their way to find specific bosses and situations where bb doesn't work for. Of course bb isn't good for pole or nob or runewolf, and several other bosses and should be used in certain situations. Use your head.

My point was the damage reduction combines well with bloodpaint when something squishier than a barb is tanking. Namely Sins. Rather than providing large heals (see above post where an R9 sage cleric with -99% channeling can have a stong IH stack apparently...) to a character with 7k hp you are merely preventing them from being a 1 shot and allowing their own skill to do the actual healing. We know most DDs suck at aggro management which is part of the reason bb has come into such popularity. And yes, alot of DDs are ignorant of cleric skills but alot of DDs also know what they need the cleric to do in order for them to tank so asking for bb may be their way of giving a heads up to the cleric. Nowadays almost everyone has a cleric alt, too.

And as for Emperor and Steelation: Steelation sleeps, stuns, aoes... Personally, if I'm dual clienting or running in a three person I throw up a bb, hit cloud eruption and then swap screens. By the time Steel does his first sleep/stun bb has cooled down and Steelation is almost dead. I triple spark and in the 3 seconds cast I swap screens, hit bb and cloud eruption again, and swap back and start attacking. If he stuns/sleeps before my bb is cooled down I choose a macro, but 99% of the time only 1 or 2 bbs is needed. Emperor, same thing. I dimensional seal, then put up bb. Emperor purple bubbles and stuns but not as often so my bb is normally cooled down and my next could eruption ready but he's actually easy enough to tank on bp heals as long as you are not slowed down. Yes, I could use my cleric for purifying the slow attack debuff, or I could just be a smart dd and time my sparks to resist or self purify.

Kerona - Sanctuary · February 2012

I..... have BB'd every boss in this game at some point, mostly just to say I did. Yes, even chicken. There are some it is not effective for, obviously (like chicken lol). BB is much cheaper heal than IH/Chromatic and the 50% damage reduction is great for squads that don't have a defined tank. I do prefer BB at 59 bosses as aggro hops around so much at that level. Is it needed? No, those bosses are wimps. Is it helpful? YES. Many people do not understand/do any sort of aggro management at this level.

What defines a great cleric? A cleric who keeps the squad alive? A cleric who spams physical defense debuff? Devour and Ironwood are much better physical debuffs and overbuffing them can really **** a squad over. I'd love to see the new crit skill put to use on bosses but honestly, there's not much to do anymore outside of BB. I got mire and extreme poison on my pve genie specifically so while I sit there bored in BB, I can debuff. heh...

@ Saku - I think you're missing that IH stacks don't heal once every 3 seconds because they're all cast at different intervals. The effect of a full IH stack is healing every 1 second or less or a "continuous" flow of healing. Add in that each IH spell is cast with a different randomized base magic value.... It's harder to calculate how much per second you are actually being healed. b:surrender

aaaaaaaaajjjjjjj · March 2012

b:victoryb:laugh

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary · March 2012

Off course BB isn't always the best idea.

...but have yet to see an "Average" squad doing BH Metal without BB.

Sylredrae - Sanctuary · March 2012

I have noticed how fond aps DDs are of BP... I believe that that's partly why bringing a sin in most bh100 squads (excluding delta) is so popular. I once had a friend, a seeker, that did full deltas regularly for money, and OBP's. What did he require in his squads?

A cleric, of course, for obvious reasons.

AOE DDs (Mystics, psychics, seekers, archers, wizzies, BMs (for HF)), also for obvious reasons....

And last but not least? A sin. He always brought a sin, unlike most bh delta squads (unless said delta squad is made by a sin). I asked him why. He told me that with BP, he could easily tank all of delta because he's getting heals from EACH mob he hits. Combine that with BB and he's hard to kill.

I can see BP's merits, but I do agree that it makes healing bh seat and bh abba squads (and by extension similar instances) much more... interesting. APS DDs tend to run very fast. They outrun me by a long shot even with holy path and kill stuff on their own. By the time I manage to land a heal on them, the mobs are already dead! Kinda makes me feel useless, although I'm not techically so (cleric buffs and heals/BB on the bosses help).

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver · March 2012

BP didnt make the game less challenging for clerics, in some cases, its made us obsolete(got a lvl 100 cleric finnally). BP would honestly not take too much damage from a tiny nerf. In some cases its so powerful it really screws the cleric over.

Example: FC, my lvl 9X BM with 6k HP, TT90 Pole axe, lvl 10 HF and various lower level AoEs can solo all teh lesser physical pulls in there. In other words, all pulls but big room and magic hall completely alone. And this BM isnt strong either attack wise. Its a fun build, made to be able to wear both same level bow and axe(Experience from HA Veno making in handy here). With that said, I dont like to bring more sins than one in any squad. And preferably none. I cant help it, Im a classist.

On a sidenote: As a cleric in a BH SoT, a barb joined us. After I filled the squad he suddenly leaves, and in a bit sends me the message: Getting BP. At lvl 100, with a high geared cleric, you dont NEED BP for BH SoT, and the barb didnt get invited back. It pissed him off a lil bit, then he said he could solo the instance with BP(Geez, my veno can solo it without), on wich the respond was that then he should go do that. As Id rather use my free wine on people that couldnt.

I think I can safely dare to say I dislike sins, they broke PK, they broke healing, they broke diversity of class need.

apex1predator · March 2012

Funniest thing is when a sin thinks he can pull like a barb, heal like a cleric( with bp) and AOE like a BM goes into bh100..proceeds to do a big pull before i can even buff the party then get wtfpwned and complains about me not healing.

As for all the BP fans..id like to see you TW on bp alone..

Sylredrae - Sanctuary · March 2012

I wouldn't say that sins in general screwed everything up completely. There are other factors that imbalanced the game, such as rank 9. Sins are a class of their own with a playstyle of their own. They're practical to have in squad for more than just BP. I like sins in all bh squads except delta because even without aps, stuff tends to die fast and some are proficient tanks depending on the boss. The shorter an instance takes and the faster the boss dies, the less the rest of the squad will spend on the run. In short - in most squads, sins are nice to have around, so I generally take them if one or more wants to go. If there are none, it's no big deal and I make do with what I have. What matters to me is whether the run succeeds, the smoother the better. I believe in judging people based on skill and personality rather than class.

That said, I do disapprove of people's reliance on BP and reluctance to do anything without it. As far as I'm concerned, it's only absolutely necessary for sins. If BP was removed from the game (or nerfed for that matter), sins would rage because while other classes don't absolutely need BP, they do. It's all they have to offset their squishiness. I understand that. How would you react if BB and other heals were nerfed, the ones we need to survive, grind, quest, duel, etc? Not well.

Don't blame the sin for make other classes reliant on BP - blame the other classes for letting themselves become dependant on it. Only blame the sin if they think they're invincible because of BP and end up doing something stupid with nasty consequences. I've seen that happen before. Still, even while I feel more useless after sins came around, I'm still grateful that clerics are still invited to bh squads even if some of them really don't need us. Clerics are not obsolete... at least, not yet. Just because sins and some seekers, BMs and barbs may or may not need our heals doesn't mean that other people don't.

Mekkhala - Lost City · March 2012

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I claimed 500-2k heals, so 25k-100k dph with demon bp and was talking with a squad. This includes HF,debuffs, and other amps, so yes a 100k crit is reasonable. I'm pointing out the high end of damage since with one or two high DDs in a Metal squad and the boss won't even survive as long as the HF.

Clerics are asked to BB in all sorts of pre 100+ instances, too. Bosses don't drop "that" quick. Fushma, sometimes Rankar, Zimo, Qianji, Ofo, Pyro, Brig, Linus, Styg, Hooli, all 6 BH 89 bosses, almost every BH100 bosses (depending on squad make-up). Countless quest bosses. Some FCC bosses. Some card bosses. Most of 1-1 - 3-1. World Bosses. Lunar Bosses...

The funny thing is thinking about it now, anytime the cleric wouldn't be bbing I'd prefer just another debuffer/dd. Think about Steelation/Emporer in 3-3. You don't need a bb, but instead of a cleric IH stacking it'd be better just to have another HFer and blow Steel up before he can do anything to really hurt you. However, if he 5 aps (wonder if he get -20% accuracy and -5% damage now too) the damage reduction of bb can save your butt while you get away.

A ep should not be BBing at ranker if they are lvl approriate for that instance O.O

I'm usually asked to IH verses BB. Sins with r9/God of Frenzy, and they're in most of my squads these days, ask me for IH to stop the charm from ticking when God of Frenzy procs in a chain.

Clerics and Bloodpaint - or lack thereof

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