high critical hit seeker ??

Maelael - Heavens Tear · January 2012

Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Hmmm... but what his numbers also didn't take into account was the almighty 3 spark.

Yes I know that a sage Seeker triple sparking is a pretty rare thing... whether it be PVP or PVE.

This is a great thread full of really awesome research and viewpoints.

I had to comment on this though.

Why the hell not?

Thats like saying a BM doesn't triple spark, cloud erupt, HF, and go to town.

Why wouldn't a Sage Seeker debuff, triple spark, cloud erupt, and Vortex?

I watch my wife do it on bossses and odd pulls all the time.

XXZeonXx - Harshlands · January 2012

Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I could see that somehow being formulated into a demon vs sage argument. With sage masteries representing pure str/(or in the case of archers, dex) build and demon representing 1-2% more crit.

For Archers it could be made, just as it could be done for Seekers.
Technically, since masteries just multiply your base damage by more, and adding strength to a Seeker does the same..

Hmm. Compared to demon mastery, sage mastery gives 15% more weapon attack. This 15% increase is the same as raising your weapon attack by x/150 with x being strength. Solve the equation, and you get the conclusion that..

Demon mastery vs sage mastery for Seeker is, in essence, 1% crit vs 22.5 strength.
This said, going from no mastery to sage mastery would be the same as adding 45 strength.

Therefore the same argument applies to this as the one discussed in this thread.

For Archers it would be exactly the same number, since the formula for how dexterity increase base damage for dexterity-based classes is exactly the same. The only difference is that you can't say for Archers that it's 1% crit vs 22.5 dexterity, since 22.5 dexterity would add 1% crit by itself.

1% crit vs an increase in base damage equal to 22.5 dexterity would be more accurate.

laloner wrote: »

I was double checking this and I think 20 str might only give you 1.06% more attack. I was forgetting that the formula is 1 + x/150 and thinking of it as just x/150.

Any cool person know the answer for sure?

Adding 20 strength gives 13.33% more of your weapon attack to your base damage.

laloner wrote: »

Thank you for the correction.

I think this number should be 13.3 not 15.

1/150 is .006 and multiplied by a weapon damage of 2000 that is 13.3.

You are correct on this, which is why I said, "...for the sake of the equations..." in that post. Both produce nearly the same outcome, and the outcome is still in favour of strength.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · January 2012

ReMakaBo - Archosaur wrote: »

Gemini being our "bread an butter" in TW also means the most efficient use of it is on groups of people, rather than single target- So in essence, it don't matter if you have 25% or 35%, if used efficiently, someone will get the crit bomb-

I was a pure dex build once before, altho the crits were a little bit nicer in single target situations, the none crits simply blow- they always seems to lack that extra 1-2k punch needed- And when it came to TW, the crits landed in group knock outs was only slightly better- but the ones getting the none crits were depressing seeing r8/nirv robed people still standing with 1-2K HP to spare- After restatting to full str- with 27% crit, its a rare chance they are left standing even with a none crit landed-

what is your gear make up for those damages? ;o

wondering cause, alot of the discussion on equations but the fact that different gear range can offer a wider range of substitutes seem to be ignored.

pinkfloyd77 · February 2012

i am R9 seeker,weapon of R9 needs at least 155 dex points,so i made my dex points @ 160 coz i dont think that 5 str points less is not a big issue although i prefer str build and even every 1 str point i lose to dex makes me uncomfortable

ReMakaBo - Archosaur · February 2012

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

what is your gear make up for those damages? ;o

wondering cause, alot of the discussion on equations but the fact that different gear range can offer a wider range of substitutes seem to be ignored.

When I went dex build originally It was still in the r8 ages, was minimum str needed, rest in dex, with a str tome,and ofc lunar cape warsoul helm, and stayed like that for like a month pre-r9 release... I actually went that build antisipateing the release of the gear, and an extra %crits that was to come-

Then r9 was released, and I played with that awhile and with the afore mentioned results, I wasn't pleased with it-

Now at full r9, and with a dex tome + Lunar cape- puts me at 180 dex- 27% crit-
And I only sacrificed 3 points of str to get that far- thats with a +10 wep, and currently no sharding- (still might go stone of the savants b:shocked) but if I +12 the weap, I may try for 200 dex, and better tome to achieve 30 -31% namely because +12ing would obviously compensate better for the damage lost in str points traded.

So in my opinion, the dex build is only feasable if you can refine high.

However, when we get our version of black voodoo- Im interested to see how well that will compensate for damage, and perhaps could reinlist the idea of dex build seekers-

CatManDoo - Dreamweaver · February 2012

mmm... isnt it like this way: higher wep ref u have more u gain from str points?, also in tw i,m always barbbuffed so i get pretty nice damage boost, near to 16k (depends on barb ofc).

ReMakaBo - Archosaur · February 2012

CatManDoo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

mmm... isnt it like this way: higher wep ref u have more u gain from str points?, also in tw i,m always barbbuffed so i get pretty nice damage boost, near to 16k (depends on barb ofc).

It does, My point was more so to substain the same current damage -/+

Neodaystar - Sanctuary · February 2012

I read the entire thread so far, and both sides offer very good points. However, I think the best build for a seeker is a conservative one, in which str and dex are somewhat balanced. I believe that 60-80 dex should be the maximum amount of additional dex (from a pure str build) a seeker should have to achieve this moderate build without sacrificing a ridiculous amount of base damage. At first it seems that this 3-4% extra crit doesn't seem much. As Zeon had mentioned, this would offer only 3-4 crit hits in every 100 hits. In pve, vortex would be a seeker's most prized skill. In mass pvp like tw or pk, gemini slash would be used more often. In both cases, your attack is not a single target attack, it's an aoe attack. So if your gemini slash hits 4 chars, that 4% additional crit is being applied to 4 individual person, which makes it like 16% more chance to land a crit with one attack.

Sympathi - Archosaur · February 2012

Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »

I read the entire thread so far, and both sides offer very good points. However, I think the best build for a seeker is a conservative one, in which str and dex are somewhat balanced. I believe that 60-80 dex should be the maximum amount of additional dex (from a pure str build) a seeker should have to achieve this moderate build without sacrificing a ridiculous amount of base damage. At first it seems that this 3-4% extra crit doesn't seem much. As Zeon had mentioned, this would offer only 3-4 crit hits in every 100 hits. In pve, vortex would be a seeker's most prized skill. In mass pvp like tw or pk, gemini slash would be used more often. In both cases, your attack is not a single target attack, it's an aoe attack. So if your gemini slash hits 4 chars, that 4% additional crit is being applied to 4 individual person, which makes it like 16% more chance to land a crit with one attack.

Don't try to think of it as an increases of 3 crits per 100 attack, for example if you are increasing on already high base critical chances, your increasing the chance to crit a lot more.

For example say you had 96% critical rate, there is the chance you wont crit hits in a row, granted a low one but its there. Getting it to 100% would be a perm crit output, same as increasing your crit from say 34% to 40%.

gallax13th · February 2012

not at all, youll lose alot of damage multiplier that way

gallax13th · February 2012

plus without even trying ill have 24 crit by lv 100

watertide · February 2012

i read the last skill for the seeker, It say 15% critical hit extra for 12sec, if that is truth, wow !! anyone or any seeker have that skill

EnDeavor - Lothranis · February 2012

I do have it (rewinding gesture), and it works as expected (reset voidstep and unfetter + add 15% crit). So yeah for 12 seconds, I have 42% crit. 5min cooldown hurts still, but those 12 seconds are priceless for rampage. It does consume one spark also.

Sympathi - Archosaur · February 2012

EnDeavor - Lothranis wrote: »

I do have it (rewinding gesture), and it works as expected (reset voidstep and unfetter + add 15% crit). So yeah for 12 seconds, I have 42% crit. 5min cooldown hurts still, but those 12 seconds are priceless for rampage. It does consume one spark also.

With the upcoming expansion seekers are getting a massive boost in terms of damage dealing, and most of it is based on pure % increases rather then weapon/ base damage;

- The 30/ 60 pet skill gives +15% critical chance increase for a short duration.
- One new skill we receive will increase our attack level by 50% at the cost of lowering defense by 40%

couple that with our 100 skill for +15% critical chance it makes high critical seekers more attractive as base increases on damage wont be nurfed as much as say skills that work from base damage as well as medium to high base critical chance being increased by 15% as well.

The expansion will make it so if a seeker wants a single target dead, there going to die. b:chuckle

EnDeavor - Lothranis · February 2012

The 30/ 60 pet skill gives +15% critical chance increase for a short duration

interesting !

but at same time, wondering if both crit buffs will stack, considering that currently, rewinding gesture doesn't stack with demon strengh of the titans

One new skill we receive will increase our attack level by 50% at the cost of lowering defense by 40%

Wondering if we can play with the 2 blessings, equip +30 one, cast buff, then switch to +15/+15 one.

ScarFury - Lost City · February 2012

well i got a high dex seeker....and still 99% of other dont agree with my build but people who know me know i def make it work. it works 100% for me and i wouldnt restat any other way....

i have np killin pretty much any class other than full r9s and having 34% crit seems like i crit almost every hit. PLus i might have A LIL less base damage and def than STR seekers, but crits more than make up for the damage regardless of wat people who havent even tried the build say....and my accuracy and evade are nice and high too

EDIT: For the hell of it imma gonna post my build from pwcalc after reading this whole thing and seeing both sides its ALMOST makin me wanna restat sum into str....but i love this build too much and like i said it hasnt dun me wrong yet....but like "i forget who" said bout bein dex build at r8...thats where im at...but ive been this way since i made the char...and off to pwcalc i go....

ScarFury - Lost City · February 2012

well this is it....http://pwcalc.com/9f151a5c35cc6743

not sure why it came out like **** but my gear i ALMOST right (cant tweak the recast) but my damage is really 5241 - 7402......... rest is more or less the same give or take atiny bit... and the legs gimme +2%crit...not 40 dex....and all the vit and magic addons on leggs and top are +hp and mp

either way not sure why it didnt come out right....stats wise but thats my gear...not amazing but not bad.....and since i had to tweak the +stats on recast armor my actual stats are

STR...307\\\\\DEX...284\\\\\VIT...50\\\\\MAG...11

so anyways for me....i crit alot more than 31% (32% with self buff and 34% with genie) would suggest and its nice to barely miss sins....so now im curious to what my damage would be if i restated like80-100 of the dex into str....but since my damage is way off on pwcalc..i dunno.....

Nniotora - Lost City · February 2012

you forgot to put mastery on its 5246-7409 with lv10 mastery

EnDeavor - Lothranis · February 2012

isn't your dmg off due to mastery not beeing counted ?
Look at buffs, you didn't put mastery bonus (sadly works only up to lvl 10).

I have 27% crit, with a p.atk of 9k-11k (str/vit build), I'm not sure that the gain of 5% crit would be worth such a loss of raw p.atk

Every though about using a firelotus ? if you can reach 30% crit with it, the damage spike could be decent, but would need a higher refine than your current r8 sword.

and still 99% of other dont agree with my build but people who know me know i def make it work. it works 100% for me and i wouldnt restat any other way

as long as you're having fun with it, that's the only thing that matters b:victory

Sympathi - Archosaur · February 2012

ScarFury - Lost City wrote: »

well this is it....http://pwcalc.com/9f151a5c35cc6743

not sure why it came out like **** but my gear i ALMOST right (cant tweak the recast) but my damage is really 5241 - 7402......... rest is more or less the same give or take atiny bit... and the legs gimme +2%crit...not 40 dex....and all the vit and magic addons on leggs and top are +hp and mp

either way not sure why it didnt come out right....stats wise but thats my gear...not amazing but not bad.....and since i had to tweak the +stats on recast armor my actual stats are

STR...307\\\\\DEX...284\\\\\VIT...50\\\\\MAG...11

so anyways for me....i crit alot more than 31% (32% with self buff and 34% with genie) would suggest and its nice to barely miss sins....so now im curious to what my damage would be if i restated like80-100 of the dex into str....but since my damage is way off on pwcalc..i dunno.....

The build you made has too many invalids, for example if your using the +40 dex on the legs as a representation of +2% critical adds, then your putting your accuracy & evasion higher then it should be.

http://pwcalc.com/7fee4b01bc5a02c0

With a couple small tweaks you can easily put out much more critical. For example for first switch your sleeves for a R8 Recast sleeves, with 3 pieces of R8 Recast the set bonus is +3% Critical chance (shown on the tome)

Next even getting just 1 add-on of +1% critical per Armour part (+3% in total again showed on the tome) would put you at a much higher crit and that's without including the possibility of recasted Armour parts with +1% crit AND dex, or +2% crit or even a triple +2% crit peice.

Lose the Physical necklace for a TT90 gold neck, cheap easy to craft and +5% cant be ignored. 1% crit tome over the +12/ +13 anyday whole idea of a crit build is to crit anything less on each armour part is a direct counter to the idea of the build.

Finally id recommend Jones over O'Malleys, a crit with jones 15% additional damage is like having 1/6th of the total damage you will do perm added onto it anyway.

Sympathi - Archosaur · February 2012

And a quick follow-on from my post i think http://pwcalc.com/39c1886a4cb6bb25 is the best possible critical build whilst keeping optimal stats like physical attack.

(Build is based on getting a 2% critical add-on on the top, bottom and sleeves and the 3 set bonus of 3% critical so 9% which was added to the tome to represent the build accuracy.)

ScarFury - Lost City · February 2012

well first off i always have both blessings on me at all time, and mostly use jones but picked omalleys on there for i dunno why lol.

And ya i should recast the wrists for the 3% crit bonus and such and as far as getting +crit on all my recast....if only i was rich and could afford rerolling til it happened.

but regardless thats my build and yes im havin fun with it. and other than full r9s i havent had any trouble with 90% of 1v1s and group pvp well, its group pvp lol

Sympathi - Archosaur · February 2012

ScarFury - Lost City wrote: »

well first off i always have both blessings on me at all time, and mostly use jones but picked omalleys on there for i dunno why lol.

And ya i should recast the wrists for the 3% crit bonus and such and as far as getting +crit on all my recast....if only i was rich and could afford rerolling til it happened.

but regardless thats my build and yes im havin fun with it. and other than full r9s i havent had any trouble with 90% of 1v1s and group pvp well, its group pvp lol

O'Malleys will make alot more sense now with these new skills and be prepared for even sillier JoSD prices, and yea apart from high APS assassins seekers are prob the best class to 1 v 1 on, even more so now. b:chuckle

kuadual · February 2012

w/e u guys said, just **** n make ur own seeker build, n don't argue b:laugh

Nymphali - Dreamweaver · February 2012

watertide wrote: »

is it a good idea to make a seeker with high critical hit rate ?? like 30% ?? Seeker have high dex already.

Of course.

As more crits you do with your vortex, more heals you get from it with bloodpaint and longer you last and quicker mobs die, easy maths for all.

And I wont even mention what 30% crit can do on PvP

Sympathi - Archosaur · February 2012

I'm aiming for 33% base critical chance without buffs for a 1/3 chance to crit. The new seeker pet skill inflicts a debuff on target making them take more crits from everyone hitting them instead of a normal buff.

At 30k SF i think it is, its +15% chance, so couple that with lv. 100 skill for +15% crit and 33% base that's 63% critical chance b:chuckle

QuakeX - Lost City · February 2012

the seeker pet is so bad. for 2 spks... its sad. and comes in half hp and gets aoed 1 shot by anything. lol. and i hate to control pets, if i wanted to do that id roll mystic not this seeking thing. and only 30sec? zzz bad bad bad....................................

Xiac - Archosaur · February 2012

QuakeX - Lost City wrote: »

the seeker pet is so bad. for 2 spks... its sad. and comes in half hp and gets aoed 1 shot by anything. lol. and i hate to control pets, if i wanted to do that id roll mystic not this seeking thing. and only 30sec? zzz bad bad bad....................................

None of the skills are necessarily useless, just takes time to find the right situation to use it to it's full advantage. I'm currently testing it out on different mobs and pk to find some relevance to it, so far I'm liking what I see.

galtzaile · February 2012

XXZeonXx - Harshlands wrote: »

So.. Base damage = [1 + ( Str / 150 ) + weapon mastery + physical attack buffs]*all of the attack from your gear/shards/weapon and level

The amount of benefit you get from adding strength is proportional to your weapon attack (which is the physical attack added from all your gear, including rings and shards). So, yes, while you're a lowbie with a crappy weapon it would be great to stat your strength into vitality or dexterity since strength won't really do as much for you. But once you start getting closer to endgame in terms of your weapon attack, the difference in strength will start to matter more and more until it becomes better to stat into strength than vitality or dexterity.

This means that STR -optimally- should be in multiples of 150?

Sorry for the dumb question, I'm not sure if I fully understand your statement.

Sympathi - Archosaur · February 2012

QuakeX - Lost City wrote: »

the seeker pet is so bad. for 2 spks... its sad. and comes in half hp and gets aoed 1 shot by anything. lol. and i hate to control pets, if i wanted to do that id roll mystic not this seeking thing. and only 30sec? zzz bad bad bad....................................

I'm sorry.. but your useless if you think the pet skill is useless.

15% critical hit boost for the entire squad in Nirvana/ PvE and is able to get the skill off twice before it auto dismisses (4 times for the 60 second one)

Stun on callout (assuming you know how to control pets) may only be 2 seconds but its duration is affected by SF and mines low-mid and its a stun and again can be used twice in its duration, four times for 60 second.

Auto attacks has the same attack speed as legendary pets such as the phoenix, with a magical version of bleed.

So in Nirvana, you'd use 2 spark vortex over angel vortex? or in a 1 v 1 you'd voidstep over angel double stun?

high critical hit seeker ??

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