Proper HA sin build

killersarequiet9
killersarequiet9 Posts: 17 Arc User
edited January 2012 in Assassin
I saw a post on here about going HA sin, everyone I saw who posted was saying you sacrificed both damage and APS.

You DO sacrifice damage, yes, (Quite a bit really) but not APS if you build it right

I believe this is more what the poster was looking for
http://pwcalc.com/8174ea9b46bdc5d7

(Note, Nirvy daggers can be substituted with G15 or R9 daggers just like a standard LA sin for the same benefits)

Pros : More physical def and HP
Better tanking ability

Cons : MUCH less damage
sacrifice magic def
Can't hold aggro from other sins (Making the tanking ability useless in squad situations)

(Note : There is one R9 +12 daggers w/ HA armor aps build sin on my server, I hold aggro from him in Nirvy with +11 G13s, however PvP he can kill 95% of sins on server 1v1)
Post edited by killersarequiet9 on
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Comments

  • FanFon - Dreamweaver
    FanFon - Dreamweaver Posts: 233 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    you also left out a lot less healing ability from bp so you would probably need more healing items, and would take a whole lot more time to solo things.

    With those refines being able to kill 95% of the sins on your server should be a given, and since he is also r9 i'm going to assume this guy is rich in game and is loaded with 4 soc armor filled with +10 vit stones
    To be honest I don't see much of a wow factor; since, his gear is so far above your average sins it would not be fair to even match them against him
  • killersarequiet9
    killersarequiet9 Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    That's not the same refine or shards as the one on my server xP I'm just posting this to give someone else an idea of what gear to look for in HA sin.
  • Zanryu - Lothranis
    Zanryu - Lothranis Posts: 1,998 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    You're not a pre-rank veno, you have one viable build choice. Stick with it and stop nerfing yourself.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Thanks to the beautiful and talanted Zheii for the sigb:dirty

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  • killersarequiet9
    killersarequiet9 Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Ok, let me rephrase,

    I am NOT HA myself.

    I am just posting a viable HA APS build for someone who asked about it.

    The sin on my server is NOT rich in game his daggers were a gift.

    Stop taking the possibility of HA sins so personally just cause you're butthurt that your way isn't everyone else's.
  • Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver
    Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Rank 9 armor is light armor so that sorta tells you....
  • Zanryu - Lothranis
    Zanryu - Lothranis Posts: 1,998 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    killersarequiet9 wrote: »
    Ok, let me rephrase,

    I am NOT HA myself.

    I am just posting a viable HA APS build for someone who asked about it.

    The sin on my server is NOT rich in game his daggers were a gift.

    Stop taking the possibility of HA sins so personally just cause you're butthurt that your way isn't everyone else's.

    I'm not butthurt at all, I just see no point in nerfing yourself.

    If you wanna build an HA sin then just roll a BM, because an LA sin will always outdamage it for the same amount of money spent.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Thanks to the beautiful and talanted Zheii for the sigb:dirty

    youtube.com/ZanryuPWI
    youtube.com/ZanryuGaming

    I read the forums naked.
  • FanFon - Dreamweaver
    FanFon - Dreamweaver Posts: 233 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    killersarequiet9 wrote: »
    Ok, let me rephrase,

    I am NOT HA myself.

    I am just posting a viable HA APS build for someone who asked about it.

    The sin on my server is NOT rich in game his daggers were a gift.

    Stop taking the possibility of HA sins so personally just cause you're butthurt that your way isn't everyone else's.

    It's not viable if you have to go threw a ridiculous process to achieve decent performance out of your toon.

    To receive a 600mil + gift hmmmm ok i'll buy it...
    Having +12 equips sure that guys not loaded.....
    how much is a +11 and +12 orb on your server? Cause if i can get those cheap on your server i'll quit mine to join yours
  • killersarequiet9
    killersarequiet9 Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Rank 9 armor is light armor so that sorta tells you....

    IJS I hear good things about LA Wizzies, clerics and HA Venos.

    IDK cause my Wizard and cleric are AA and my Veno isn't restatted for HA yet though

    But hey, if everyone has to go R9 or be fail, that's cool too.
  • killersarequiet9
    killersarequiet9 Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    FanFon - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    It's not viable if you have to go threw a ridiculous process to achieve decent performance out of your toon.

    To receive a 600mil + gift hmmmm ok i'll buy it...
    Having +12 equips sure that guys not loaded.....
    how much is a +11 and +12 orb on your server? Cause if i can get those cheap on your server i'll quit mine to join yours
    i never said ALL his gear was +12 -.- Only his daggers. The rest is between 7-10
  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    The only people that should go HA on a sin are those who are bored. I mean, by all means go HA if you think it's that good. And if you can prove it, then more power to you.

    If other people can't/won't accept your viable build, just don't talk about it. Keep the information to yourself if no one appreciates it. That's the best advice I can give you.
    [SIGPIC]Octavia is best pony[/SIGPIC]
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    youtube.com/user/SkaiPW - Assassin PvE/PvP Videos!
  • Sin - Raging Tide
    Sin - Raging Tide Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    http://pwcalc.com/3b7c0530c8997adf (accidentally used 2 different types or nirv but you get the point.)

    Equivalent build to your HA sin build but with LA gear. Same buffs and shards. LA build only has 1318 less P.def but 1439 more m.def and nearly 3000 more p.atk. Hardly norticable HP difference as well. The LA build has more survivability as well because of increased bloodpaint hp regeneration from more attack. There is no reason whatsoever a sin should go HA in any shape or form unless, like Skai said, you're bored. But it really has no real benefits.
  • Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver
    Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    One other important thing....although I think the build is already proved foolish....1. The heavy armor build lowers your mag res which is the most important part of your def as a sin. Chances are death will come from a magical attack.........
  • Blueblade__ - Archosaur
    Blueblade__ - Archosaur Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Those gears (except the daggers and the armour) would look so much more nicer on a bm

    if u WANT a HA sin go and make a BM or a barb or a seeker

    EDIT: http://pwcalc.com/2a7361fb3c13708f
  • Cinderball - Raging Tide
    Cinderball - Raging Tide Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    The thing is, to stay at the same amount of APS, you are forced to wear the R8 top and ashura ornaments which reduces both of your defenses and your hp. That 4APS HA sin isn't taking advantage of the survivability of HA and it lacks marrows or high base HP to help make up for it. A pure HA sin with those refines has significantly higher defenses compared to APS LA and a moderate increase in hp. However, using full HA with magic ornaments caps base APS to 2.5. This makes the build more suited for a sin that prefers to skill-spam and AOE since they aren't getting constant bp heals. Personally, I went HA and haven't looked back since. Long story short, if what you want is maximum survivability against bosses, it is much better to go 4APS base LA since it can reach defenses comparable to a 4APS base HA with much better heals.
    RT's Heavy Armor Sin
    pwcalc.com/4b05df7de8c8337f
  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Stupid build.

    You can't say "Sin", "HA" and "Proper" in the same sentence and make sense.
  • OontzOontz - Dreamweaver
    OontzOontz - Dreamweaver Posts: 782 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    http://pwcalc.com/b9771a4b7f0cb3ea

    Superior HA build. More or less the same hp, but more attack and a ton more def levels.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Niteshadows - Harshlands
    Niteshadows - Harshlands Posts: 583 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    idiots like this remind me of transgenders. trying to change urself into something that wasn't meant for u. if u want to roll a heavy armor class then roll a bm, barb, or seeker. no HA sins pls. it looks fu cking stupid.
    Do you hate me? Good, that makes for an adequate conversation starter.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Cinderball - Raging Tide
    Cinderball - Raging Tide Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Ignoring the transgender comment above, there are people out there that genuinely love playing a sin and would rather play defensively than offensively. For them, HA is a much better armor than LA for how they want to play their sin. Telling those sins to reroll to a bm or barb that can survive much better is just as stupid as telling an APS bm or barb to reroll to an APS r9 sin because its DPS is far higher than their builds can ever attain.
    RT's Heavy Armor Sin
    pwcalc.com/4b05df7de8c8337f
  • Snufalufugus - Lost City
    Snufalufugus - Lost City Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    You can not mention HA sin here on this forum. People here are pure perfectionists. They optimize every aspect of their lives except anything involving real life.
  • Niteshadows - Harshlands
    Niteshadows - Harshlands Posts: 583 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Cinderball - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Ignoring the transgender comment above, there are people out there that genuinely love playing a sin and would rather play defensively than offensively. For them, HA is a much better armor than LA for how they want to play their sin. Telling those sins to reroll to a bm or barb that can survive much better is just as stupid as telling an APS bm or barb to reroll to an APS r9 sin because its DPS is far higher than their builds can ever attain.

    it seems as though u blew off the point i was trying to get across since ur too simple to understand. why make a class into something that wasn't designed to be? and wtf do u mean "defensively"? r u f.u.cking stupid? sins have skills that keeps them being one shots. that was the stupidest and most **** comment i have received thus far this year. LMAO!b:laughb:shutup
    Do you hate me? Good, that makes for an adequate conversation starter.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Cinderball - Raging Tide
    Cinderball - Raging Tide Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Niteshadows - Harshlands wrote: »
    it seems as though u blew off the point i was trying to get across since ur too simple to understand. why make a class into something that wasn't designed to be? and wtf do u mean "defensively"? r u f.u.cking stupid? sins have skills that keeps them being one shots. that was the stupidest and most **** comment i have received thus far this year. LMAO!b:laughb:shutup

    I stated that I was blowing off your point because your "point" was nothing more than flamebait. Since you re-stated it so its no longer flamebait, I'll reply to it. Take more than two seconds to look at a sin's skills and its clear that sins were meant to be primarily a DPH class so anyone that rolls an APS sin isn't playing it as it was initially designed. You think the devs gave us cotd and more skills than most other classes so we could just spam 3 spark? Sins can effectively be played in a defensive and supportive role through skill spamming. We have the ability to stunlock any normal mob until its dead. We can cancel most channeling AOE's that a boss dishes out. The fact that most sin skills have a high damage add-on makes it feasible to switch to HA for the much higher defenses for this particular build. Yes, we have skills that keep us from being one shots but if they fail, HA makes them much less painful and also excels when multiple things are hitting you at once. I love to AOE and stunlock with my zerk dags and HA only makes these skills more useful for me because I can easily handle the aggro. As I have already stated, most people going for single target survivability would not find this a feasible build. Btw, foul language and poor grammar does not a good reply make. b:chuckle
    RT's Heavy Armor Sin
    pwcalc.com/4b05df7de8c8337f
  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Cinderball - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I stated that I was blowing off your point because your "point" was nothing more than flamebait. Since you re-stated it so its no longer flamebait, I'll reply to it. Take more than two seconds to look at a sin's skills and its clear that sins were meant to be primarily a DPH class so anyone that rolls an APS sin isn't playing it as it was initially designed. You think the devs gave us cotd and more skills than most other classes so we could just spam 3 spark? Sins can effectively be played in a defensive and supportive role through skill spamming. We have the ability to stunlock any normal mob until its dead. We can cancel most channeling AOE's that a boss dishes out. The fact that most sin skills have a high damage add-on makes it feasible to switch to HA for the much higher defenses for this particular build. Yes, we have skills that keep us from being one shots but if they fail, HA makes them much less painful and also excels when multiple things are hitting you at once. I love to AOE and stunlock with my zerk dags and HA only makes these skills more useful for me because I can easily handle the aggro. As I have already stated, most people going for single target survivability would not find this a feasible build. Btw, foul language and poor grammar does not a good reply make. b:chuckle

    You're contradicting yourself a little, as a "DPH" class you'd want to max out your dex, giving you better DPH. You're mainly talking about PvE even though you're talking about defensive and supportive roles, in which case sins lack. You can do whatever you want, it's your build but to maximize your build.

    Skills like focus mind and deaden nerves help a lot defensively which helps with the fact that you could focus less on your armour (keeping is LA instad of HA). Also sins won't keep agro aoeing mobs with either a seeker/bm/psychic/wizard in the squad with similar tier weapons/refines. Your points don't make much sense in an actual gameplay, it's like people comparing dagger damage with mindless constant 5aps with no interruptions.

    Also the fact that you can stun lock suggest maybe you don't need great gear.

    The more damage you do, the more bloodpaint you get, better survivability. If you want to hold yourself back lowering your damage and staying with HA it's up to you.
  • Cinderball - Raging Tide
    Cinderball - Raging Tide Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Yes, you are right. You don't need great gear for stunlocking 1 vs 1. That was just a reply for one of the ways you could use a sin's skills defensively and in support roles. As I mentioned in prior posts in this thread, having maximum DPH does little if it causes me to end up on the floor because LA can't handle taking aggro without a constant stream of bloodpaint or high refines. My HA build has SS G15 +7 dags and 340 dex which is around 120-130 less dex than a pure build with my gears would have. 6-7% crit and ~21% base damage is a significant loss, but made up for with over 50% less physical damage early on, 15-30% less damage from both physical and magical attacks, and ~15% more hp at high refines.

    As for DPH, its not as big of a loss as it seems considering that 21% base damage is a bit over 1k less damage before attack levels kick in. Add in skill modifiers and the attack levels, and I only lose about 1.8k dmg from a 15k+ hit from or ~12% damage from most skills. Under 3 spark, it gets cut to 6-7% from the extra attack and becomes rather insignificant. Doesn't do anything for the loss of crit but that is where HA loses out.

    Unless you are talking about prolonged AOEing like delta, I frequently take and hold aggro from a portion of the pulls in FB99 and warsong over most other classes with similar gears to me. I can spam sage spark with 65 attack levels, have a ~40% chance to do 2x or more dmg, and have two hard-hitting AOE's with a 50% amp. Any mob with under 400k hp that I crit/zerk or zerk crit under the initial debuff stack loses at least half its hp so those mobs usually attack me until they die.

    How are my points like the ones made in the damage comparison thread? The bonuses on armor don't rely on whether I'm attacking or not like bloodpaint does. In the other 9 seconds I'm not using an AOE, HA gives me the survivability that bloodsuck through skillspam cannot. If I was interested in being my own one man squad, I would of gone 4APS LA a long time ago. I am fully aware that I could have much more survivability against bosses and better DPS/DPH with that build. I have stated such in all of the posts I made in this thread. I simply refuse to abuse that glitch and feed the "APS or fail" mentality that has made so many people leave.
    RT's Heavy Armor Sin
    pwcalc.com/4b05df7de8c8337f
  • Niteshadows - Harshlands
    Niteshadows - Harshlands Posts: 583 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    @cinderball

    just shut up dude, u don't know what ur talking about and for someone to point how i type is childish. ur point is both irrelevant and completely idiotic. u have gone HA which was not intended for the class. so that's just fu.cking stupid. now lemme show u some vids of a sin > sage =DPH who whoops the hell outta this bm. yes DPH so wtf r u talking about "DPH" for HA, sage is damage per hit u fu.ckin moron. have u not been on the forums much at all or what. wonder what hole u crawled out from.

    well here r the vids nub:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPLnD652R2Q

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbdWfdYGMHo&feature=related

    and in both of them i know the sin is r9, but this just shows that u don't need HA for survivability nor support role. sins r damage dealers, so there is no way around that fact.



    Edit:
    ah almost forgot. i went back over and read ur last 2 comments. sins aren't made for aoe's as they only have 2. and another thing about HA, it does allow u to tank more mobs but when it comes down to it: u stripped away the very essence that makes ur sin a "true sin". a true sin is someone like skai, pytharia or anyone who have followed the pure dex build. unlike u who took a 1v1 class and morphed it into some sort of hideous abomination. @.@ P.S. i think i made it clear that thing u call a sin is fail. hahaha
    Do you hate me? Good, that makes for an adequate conversation starter.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Niteshadows - Harshlands wrote: »
    @cinderball

    just shut up dude, u don't know what ur talking about and for someone to point how i type is childish. ur point is both irrelevant and completely idiotic. u have gone HA which was not intended for the class. so that's just fu.cking stupid. now lemme show u some vids of a sin > sage =DPH who whoops the hell outta this bm. yes DPH so wtf r u talking about "DPH" for HA, sage is damage per hit u fu.ckin moron. have u not been on the forums much at all or what. wonder what hole u crawled out from.

    well here r the vids nub:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPLnD652R2Q

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbdWfdYGMHo&feature=related

    and in both of them i know the sin is r9, but this just shows that u don't need HA for survivability nor support role. sins r damage dealers, so there is no way around that fact.

    So wait..

    You're using PvP videos as a proof of survivability in PvE? Great job.

    Also, the whole concept that a Sage is for DPH is ridiculous. Speaking as a Sage sin myself, Sages have higher durability due to better Focused Mind/Bloodpaint/Tidal Protection/Deaden Nerves and Sage Spark. Granted, Sages do also happen to have higher DPH, but that's not the best quality of a Sage sin.

    Oh and HA sin is about as silly a concept as HA Archer.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Cinderball - Raging Tide
    Cinderball - Raging Tide Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Niteshadows - Harshlands wrote: »
    @cinderball

    just shut up dude, u don't know what ur talking about and for someone to point how i type is childish. ur point is both irrelevant and completely idiotic. u have gone HA that was not intended for the class. so that's just fu.cking stupid. now lemme show u some vids of a sin > sage =DPH who whoops the hell outta bm. yes DPH so wtf r u talking about "DPH", sage is damage per hit u ****** moron. have u not been on the forums much at all or what. wonder what hole u crawled out from.

    well here r the vids nub:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPLnD652R2Q

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbdWfdYGMHo&feature=related

    and in both of them i know the sin is r9, but this just shows that u don't need HA for survivability nor support role. sins r damage dealers, so there is no way around that fact.
    What was irrelevant, flame inciting, and completely idiotic was ignorantly labeling an entire group idiotic for something they cannot help and comparing it to something you could easily change with a restat note. Of course I wouldn't need HA once I had high refines or r9. I also wouldn't need the insane amount of damage of a pure dex build going by that logic. It hardly matters what gear you pick if you are throwing out that kind of cash to get it. My whole argument was that APS was no more intended than going HA given a sin's skill set. All I do skillspam with unintended armor. Most people do the opposite and play sins an unintended way with intended armor. If you believe the devs intended for us to blaze through instances by attacking so fast that we twitch, I cannot help you there. I've seen those vids already but they are still pretty good! I prefer the vids of Cheze and Skai myself though. b:laugh I've stated already that LA at high refines rivals HA in survivability. It offers an advantage for what I want to do and for me, any loss from a ton of damage is still a ton of damage. I've been browsing the forums since I first started playing and already knew what to expect from posting here.

    Edit: Where did I say anything about sage not being good for DPH? The implication was that I went sage for the extra boost in DPH from CoTD and subsea and survivability from sage spark, tidal protection, and focused mind among other things.
    RT's Heavy Armor Sin
    pwcalc.com/4b05df7de8c8337f
  • Niteshadows - Harshlands
    Niteshadows - Harshlands Posts: 583 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    at oblaze:

    pve:= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaxflRklMoA

    sage sin 102 on raging tide server

    she is LA build and uses aps.

    soloing fc and uses bloodpaint to its fullest potential which allows for a sin great survivability.
    Do you hate me? Good, that makes for an adequate conversation starter.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • AngelOfFate_ - Heavens Tear
    AngelOfFate_ - Heavens Tear Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I dont give a *** what ppl say. HA sin has worked awesome for me. So im not the same as every other sin, so what, thats the point. Call me fail and ill laugh my *** off. Try it yourself and you might actually know how well it works. So you lose some atk dmg, so what, sins already have enough atk as it is
  • Cinderball - Raging Tide
    Cinderball - Raging Tide Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Exactly my point! Glad to see others that enjoy it. We all already know that as HA, our DPS and paint heals will be lower. Even so, going HA isn't the omgjustasfailasarcanebarb that these forums make it out to be. This thread reminds me a lot about how going sage with sins used to be viewed back when I first started.
    RT's Heavy Armor Sin
    pwcalc.com/4b05df7de8c8337f
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    5.0 demon using chill with +12 claws is still a monster <3
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute

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