GoF is so unfair

Casters do more damage, but they also only get 10 hp/vit, lower hp/lvl, and significantly lower hp/refine. In other words, they are squishy as hell. In return BM's/sins/barbs can get insane hp on their refines, and R9's can get close to 20k hp after buffs, AND they get GoF for a free ~20% extra damage on everything.

The fact that GoF can combine with crits for 4x damage means they get get higher max damage than casters, also.

The top 2 in damage rankings on my server is a Barb and a BM. The +12 wizzies can't even crack the top 10.

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

R9 bow has advanced debuff. That's far more broken in PvP than GoF. I would trade for advanced debuff. BM would instantly become the scariest player in TW.

OFT. The r9 archers go from hitting 1200-1800 average to 3-5k+ on a purge.

StormHydra - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is not an exaggeration.

Definitely not.

How could that possibly be an exaggeration? I mean no one in their right mind would think that's an exaggeration..right?

Endgame +12 R9 PvP with buffs, debuffs, high atactk level, blah blah blah. No...not an exaggeration at all...

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

Magic doesn't miss, but it also gets easily inturrupted by aps. I can't tell you how many time's ive had to recast a spell because of BS 3.33 aps per secs.

This is furether complicated by the fact that most spells have 1s + channel times.

The next time you fail 3 attacks in a row because you're getting hit, then I'll let u guys remove the miss for phy attacks.

Proof that the term "aps" is so standardized that people use it without even fully knowing what it means... See why I rarely play anymore? b:cold

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

The top 2 in damage rankings on my server is a Barb and a BM. The +12 wizzies can't even crack the top 10.

I beg to differ.


http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa139/killeruio/2011-11-2719-22-55-1.jpg

Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »

BM's R8 pole axe can now be recasted to get advanced purge. You still won't have the range of a bow of course, but still...

Already have a debuff spear.

I would trade zerk on my R9 axes for adv. debuff though. That would make every axe aoe usable in TW.

Does anyone know if debuff will proc from genie skills like zerk?

IMANOPCLASS - Lost City wrote: »

He said Advanced Debuff, which means higher % to debuff

its like the difference between Sacrificial Stike and God of Frenzy

Duh. Spear doesn't have as many aoes and spear skills < axe skills.

And a BM using a polearm as a primary weapon for pve, tw or pvp is horribly fail.

Adv. purge on an axe > adv. purge on a spear.

b:bye

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

You know the reason BM is even in the top 100 is because of 2X damage from HF right? Their raw damage output is half of what you see on the ranking.


And do you know WHY melees get more HP per VIT and refine? Because we spend 90% of the fights chasing. Your squishness is made up by the fact that you don't have to be right next to someone to hit them. If HAs get the same HP as Arcane, we will die before even touching anyone.

It really feels like you're getting the short end of the stick while chasing doesn't it? It usually only happens with a Wiz though. Every other caster class gets maybe one 2s channel spell off before the BM reaches us, and if we're kiting, we're also not nuking.

You can see this very easily in archer vs wiz fights. The archer gets stunshot off, shoots, the BM runs up. The bm reaches the archer, uses a skill...meanwhile the archer has to run back while doing absolutely nothing in order to kite. The only time range plays a factor is when the BM is rooted or slept, or the mystic uses knockback (not really much point in running away while the BM is stunned/sealed unless ur in 5m deadzone).

TBH though you have to play a non-wiz ranged class in order to appreciate this. If there's a BM on your tail, you either anti-stun and try to ignore him, or kite him but do essentially nothing. If you want to cast a skill with a BM chasing you, you have 2 options: cast it, and get stunned by the BM, or cast it, and anti-stun to avoid the stun.

Don't get me wrong. Range is strong in pvp, especially in TW, but in a duel, you'd be surprised that without an anti-stun up, the caster will often feel forced to run and do nothing while the BM chases. Many stop to cast a skill anyway since they feel bad doing nothing, and end up stunlocked.

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

It really feels like you're getting the short end of the stick while chasing doesn't it? It usually only happens with a Wiz though. Every other caster class gets maybe one 2s channel spell off before the BM reaches us, and if we're kiting, we're also not nuking.

You can see this very easily in archer vs wiz fights. The archer gets stunshot off, shoots, the BM runs up. The bm reaches the archer, uses a skill...meanwhile the archer has to run back while doing absolutely nothing in order to kite. The only time range plays a factor is when the BM is rooted or slept, or the mystic uses knockback (not really much point in running away while the BM is stunned/sealed unless ur in 5m deadzone).

TBH though you have to play a non-wiz ranged class in order to appreciate this. If there's a BM on your tail, you either anti-stun and try to ignore him, or kite him but do essentially nothing. If you want to cast a skill with a BM chasing you, you have 2 options: cast it, and get stunned by the BM, or cast it, and anti-stun to avoid the stun.

Don't get me wrong. Range is strong in pvp, especially in TW, but in a duel, you'd be surprised that without an anti-stun up, the caster will often feel forced to run and do nothing while the BM chases. Many stop to cast a skill anyway since they feel bad doing nothing, and end up stunlocked.

Clerics have 2 seals to help kite, 3 if you count the lvl 100 one. And in air makes it much easier for all ranged to get away. Venos get fox form spam for speed buff to kite. Many classes have ways to kite melee, and that's before genie skills/apoths are brought in.

*EDIT* And also with the new Faith proc, it'll be stupidly easy to kite melee shortly.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

I used a Pole against a Barb in a 1v1 and I have to say, it was better than, say, AOEing or fisting.

b:cry Please tell me you're trolling.

And pfah, No GoF on ranged weapons, you got purge bows, that's bad enough.
Or better said, if you can't kill a purged target, then you suck and GoF wouldn't help anyway XD

X_Rays - Sanctuary wrote: »

I wouldn't make such a general statement to call all pole BMs fail, especially the demon ones. In 1v1 is when they shine. Adv purge on spear is actually better for 1v1, but for tw/pve axe rules.

Endgame spear BM was fail even with highly refined Dance. They would run around and tick your charm a lot without killing very much.

Before packs, an end-game BM didn't exist unless you could get GX, which almost nobody had. You couldn't chip and only a few people were capable of farming. I would have had like the 7th or 8th pair of farmed GX on my server, but then packs came out and everyone just bought them. Otherwise, end game was retirement for a worthless class only good for TW.

After packs, endgame became fists and everyone APS raged. Spear got a boost with cheap lunar weapon, Dance of the Universe.... G13/15 Nirvana spear sucks.

After badges, endgame became axes.

And debuff on spear sucks. Who is going to swap out their highly refined primary weapon to try whacking someone with a spear that does little to no damage... You chase someone around with a debuff spear for the lulz.

And yes, I have a debuff spear and have used it quite a bit.

Give me adv debuff on my +12 R9 axes. I would trade GoF for it without even thinking about it.

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

Endgame spear BM was fail even with highly refined Dance. They would run around and tick your charm a lot without killing very much.

Before packs, an end-game BM didn't exist unless you could get GX, which almost nobody had. You couldn't chip and only a few people were capable of farming. I would have had like the 7th or 8th pair of farmed GX on my server, but then packs came out and everyone just bought them. Otherwise, end game was retirement for a worthless class only good for TW.

After packs, endgame became fists and everyone APS raged. Spear got a boost with cheap lunar weapon, Dance of the Universe.... G13/15 Nirvana spear sucks.

After badges, endgame became axes.

And debuff on spear sucks. Who is going to swap out their highly refined primary weapon to try whacking someone with a spear that does little to no damage... You chase someone around with a debuff spear for the lulz.

And yes, I have a debuff spear and have used it quite a bit.

Give me adv debuff on my +12 R9 axes. I would trade GoF for it without even thinking about it.

I agree with you on the debuff spear is worthless part.

I'm still trying to convince a few BM's on my server that spending 5 minutes whacking someone with a +2 purge pole is *not* a good use of your time as a BM in TW.

The point of purge is to weaken someone down to the point where they can be easily killed. Why is purge awesome on an archer? Because if an archer gets a purge they have the damage to kill the target entirely by themselves, or with minimal help.

But a BM whacking someone with a pole for laughable damage? You need at least another DD with you to kill in a reasonable time in TW, and if there's a wiz assisting you, the wiz has to **** around while waiting for the purge to proc. At that point, might as well just go axe, stun him, and dragon him while the wiz blows a fully buffed target up anyway @ double damage. Or better yet, have a veno come up and guarantee a purge and save the 2 sparks.

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

I don't see why doing nothing hurts the archer, it's the BM that loses a spark, got anymore bright ideas? Playing waiting game with an archer just means you're going to get purged.

How is it a waiting game when you're just running and not attacking? You have to stop to attack eventually, and if the archer can kill the BM in a single stun shot and/or aim low, the range point is moot, since that is just a gear difference. My point is that an archer is forced to kite when the BM has stun immunity, because the range factor becomes moot (if you stop to attack, you get stunlocked). How does range help there? It's the stun shot/aim low that makes the difference, and not the fact that you can get off maybe 1 or 2 attacks by the time the BM reaches you.

In my experience a +10-12 R9 fully sharded BM does not take that much phy damage even with mag marrow on. The problem is that too many stick to nirvana gears and TT99 orns because they only want to APS, and these are easy enough to kill w/ an average nebulous.