Soul of stunning

Leviath_Imp - Lost City
Leviath_Imp - Lost City Posts: 194 Arc User
edited November 2011 in Wizard
WTF SOUL OF STUNNING
I got stunned for 10 seconds from that dis is so imbalanced.
How can wizzes do sht if they're stunned for 10 secs from a freaking self buff.
Balance pl0x
(and im not saying theres any point in hitting SoS, u can just kite forever...
game gets retardedly boring)
b:angryb:angryb:cry
Post edited by Leviath_Imp - Lost City on
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Comments

  • Nurfed_You - Harshlands
    Nurfed_You - Harshlands Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    generally, if it's a good psy they will use soul of retaliation(shares cooldown with SoStun). at which point i jstu pitfall/CoF or something. On the rare times i do have to tick SoStun off i juts hope my BoC is working. i also fortify and poke them then kite til fortify wheres off(mdef debuff). it really just depends on your genie set up
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    You could even use it against the psy. Let them stun you, turn on red voodoo, and EP you. Once they've burnt their genie out, use badge and hit them while they're weak.

    But that only works on r8 psys, idk about r9 psys (which I'm guessing this one is if they stunned you for 10secb:surrender).
  • Leviath_Imp - Lost City
    Leviath_Imp - Lost City Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    well i tested on a full r9+11/12 psy
    he stuns for 10 secs
    i mean if they just spam soul of stunning, i can't do stuff.
    my genie dies from BoC, if I fortify, my mdef lowers in which case im f'ed
    probably the most **** thing ever
    only hope is something like gush, badge, undine, sopor, bt sparked
    but i mean dats really ez to domain and stuff.
  • Nurfed_You - Harshlands
    Nurfed_You - Harshlands Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    i've fought a few full +10 w/ and w/out JoSD. Most of the time its just a waiting game til they make a mistake or get stuck in black voodoo by you. at which point its normally just a crit or two to take them down.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Evanera - Heavens Tear
    Evanera - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,423 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    I love soul of stunning. Stupid psys fall back on it all the time and never change their strategy up. Let them stun you as you undine them and as soon as you see attack voodoo go up, badge and seal and they should be dead fast. Don't rely on this too much though because it can still fail, and good psys will know you do it. If you want, you can use fortify on it as well then distance shrink back and come back to fight.

    If you have a good enough genie, you can regen enough energy every cooldown to be able to badge/fortify each time he casts it so it shouldn't be an issue. Wizards survive around genies.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?u=14463705003&type=sigpic&dateline=1322469658[/SIGPIC]
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Easy counter Is faith + sutra on black vodoo. Just keep undine on em and wait. Even if they domain faith has a far shorter cooldown. if you dont have faith things get complicated.

    Badge method works unless the 25% (sage) 30% (demon) SoS procs on you on your seal undine or poke hit (hint its a pretty high chance) so it more or less needs will surge or a tranq orb to be 100%. Ofc if they spam disturb soul your not fitting the kill into seal time.

    Or you can spark immune+geni spark to trigger the stun. Seal+Fort and pray

    Not much you can do if they can kill you w/o geni amps in black aside from sit there and facedesk.

    Or just hit a vac pot before your combo.
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Nurfed_You - Harshlands
    Nurfed_You - Harshlands Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    lol josh, ever tried tanking a full r9 psy without using your genie? sutra without genei spark barely dents them. you may have a chance at killing them if you tick their charm then sutra. Not trying to really argue with yoru strategy because in theory it could work well.

    Faith requires 160energy to use. This means that you ahve to kite around and wait for them to switch to black voodoo whiel keeping undine on them. Chances are your going to get hit with SoStun, SoSeal, or SoR an undine. you could save your genie and use faith to guarantee that you will hit them with 4skills from sutra. Sadly it doesnt guarantee that they won't AD or windshield or just simply holy path away from you. leaving your genie completly dead, and leaving you almost defensless vs their next few attacks, really meaning you ahve ele shell if you dont get stunned first.

    Which hopefully you can force them to stun you then faith past SoR/SoStun/SoSeal w/e they have up atm. If they have SoR up you have to undine a 2nd time which isnt the end of hte world but faith only last 5secs. So in theory if you wait for them to stun you then change to black voodoo you have a chance to kill them if htey jsut stand there and tank you.

    Well that's my view from both sides of that.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    The problem with using faith or fortify is that they'll stay in white voodoo :\
    The whole point of letting them stun you is so they switch to black and leave themselves open to a spark or sutra combo.
  • Leviath_Imp - Lost City
    Leviath_Imp - Lost City Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    well to be honest, I like undine while kiting, and considering i dont get sealed,
    find some time to get close to them, seal them, will surge, spark sutra combo
    they die so fast...
    but when they have soul of stunning they counter that so well.
    And then retal is usually not used against me cuz CoF can just break it, and most good psys
    know that.
    bt bypass will rarely happen unless the psy is dumb
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    If physic has +40K soulforce, kill him is extremely difficult. It's 11s of stunning from soul of stunning + if he use tide spirit(9s sutra+ higher attack) you can be dead by their sutra is gone. If you use badge, they still have earth vector to stun you again + their 6s cooldown on charms means very difficult to kill high refined physic with high soulforce. Chi is extremely important for physic. If he is full of chi, I would say you have no chance to kill them. Of course same gear.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Nurfed_You - Harshlands wrote: »
    lol josh, ever tried tanking a full r9 psy without using your genie? sutra without genei spark barely dents them. you may have a chance at killing them if you tick their charm then sutra. Not trying to really argue with yoru strategy because in theory it could work well.

    Tick SOS with Sage DP or demon GS instead of pyro.

    Faith requires 160energy to use. This means that you ahve to kite around and wait for them to switch to black voodoo whiel keeping undine on them. Chances are your going to get hit with SoStun, SoSeal, or SoR an undine. you could save your genie and use faith to guarantee that you will hit them with 4skills from sutra. Sadly it doesnt guarantee that they won't AD or windshield or just simply holy path away from you. leaving your genie completly dead, and leaving you almost defensless vs their next few attacks, really meaning you ahve ele shell if you dont get stunned first.

    Dosent matter all your waiting on is white to drop for faith combo. They react or die. Not an SOR thread. HP dosent matter, blink>BT with a chan pot. WS = 1 more hit to kill em, just pop SS your not going to get sealed in faith ever. The only effective counters here are 3 spark or AD/imune pot, both ahve a 3 min CD faith has 1.

    Which hopefully you can force them to stun you then faith past SoR/SoStun/SoSeal w/e they have up atm. If they have SoR up you have to undine a 2nd time which isnt the end of hte world but faith only last 5secs. So in theory if you wait for them to stun you then change to black voodoo you have a chance to kill them if htey jsut stand there and tank you.

    What psy would waste vector with SOS up? Not an SOR thread again. Yes we know you wait for stun and punch faith

    Well that's my view from both sides of that.

    Rank 9 wep+black vodoo = Dead psy? Last I checked 100 attack levels + rapid nukes hurt.
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »
    The problem with using faith or fortify is that they'll stay in white voodoo :\

    The whole point of letting them stun you is so they switch to black and leave themselves open to a spark or sutra combo.
    Last I checked faith purifies and grants total status immune. Do i need to make a chart with crayons of what this means?

    MY bm can spam mag def charms and leaps/seal and roar and live for bloody ever against a rank 9 psy 1v1 in black with tt 99 and g8 shards. So on a full g 15-g16 mage with JOSD's with what amounts to near immunity to earth damage I'm pretty sure you can live through a white voodoo psy without geni...

    Again SOS thread =/= SOR thread the op asked specificly for counters to SOS.

    Let me reiterate Badge removes one stun, SoS. Vector, Silence, SS and thir aoe seal are all still on cooldown as is Will vs BT and they have a full geni. A reactionary fight will kill you, black = nuke nuke nuke nuke nuke pray Faith or will surge+vac or a tranq orb will allow this. Badge will remove SOS and leave you with 75 geni stam to play with on most genis.

    Go test it then tell me I'm wrong. God knows the forums seems to have concurred that the wait and badge tactic is iffy at best.
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Go test it then tell me I'm wrong. God knows the forums seems to have concurred that the wait and badge tactic is iffy at best.

    The forums concurred that the badge combo is amazing against inexperienced psys b:laugh

    It's iffy at best against a psy that has any real experience against wizards b:avoid
  • Leviath_Imp - Lost City
    Leviath_Imp - Lost City Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Lol guy I played, when I ticked his stuff and blinked in, he got off white voodoo b4 i could seal cuz of uneven ground and having to wait for my char to drop to the ground.
    The tactic would work against some psys, but if a psy knows what hes doing, theres nothing u can do to counter that op sht.
  • Evanera - Heavens Tear
    Evanera - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,423 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Apoth has a two minute cooldown.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?u=14463705003&type=sigpic&dateline=1322469658[/SIGPIC]
  • Nurfed_You - Harshlands
    Nurfed_You - Harshlands Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    @Josh
    a psy can use magic charms same as you can, holy path is very effective when someone seals you to DD. AD lasts for most of sutra. or they themselves could faith then white voodoo. plenty of ways for your strategy to go down the drain and waste 2sparks and yoru genie. stick to bm, you seem better at it
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Nurfed_You - Harshlands wrote: »
    @Josh
    a psy can use magic charms same as you can, holy path is very effective when someone seals you to DD. AD lasts for most of sutra. or they themselves could faith then white voodoo. plenty of ways for your strategy to go down the drain and waste 2sparks and yoru genie. stick to bm, you seem better at it

    you just said the same thing I bloody replied to as a counterargument?

    bagde can be counted by a 25%-30% per hit chance on a 3-4 hit combo to kill, by any of the above methods, or by any of the other disables above leaving you with wind sheild as your only hope and a prayer option.

    Faith is countered by AD faith and apos.
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Nurfed_You - Harshlands
    Nurfed_You - Harshlands Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    faith is easily countered with holy path. "O NO I'M SEALED" runs away >.>
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Nurfed_You - Harshlands wrote: »
    faith is easily countered with holy path. "O NO I'M SEALED" runs away >.>

    3 times now. Gave my counterargument to that posts ago.

    IJS your never ever killing a rank 9 JOSD psy in white voodoo theres no choice BUT to burn everything you have when black goes up. Period.

    Faith is badge, will surge, fortify, lawbreaker, adrenal surge adn w/e the anti amp skill is all in one with a full purify, and it puts no other geni skills on cooldown.

    Cheapest possible way to go all in commitment wise w/o shooting yourself in the foot.

    Seriously how many posts of arguments about the most OP geni skill in game now? When as one of my hope and a prayer tactics I have 3 spark+geni spark to trigger stun+pray your balls off?

    ffs
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Just wondering, but can r9 psys kill other r9s from white voodoo without soulburn? Because level 10 white voodoo takes out like 99 attack levels right?

    Just asking because I really don't have any experience fighting r9 psys... as an r9 lol.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Just wondering, but can r9 psys kill other r9s from white voodoo without soulburn? Because level 10 white voodoo takes out like 99 attack levels right?

    Just asking because I really don't have any experience fighting r9 psys... as an r9 lol.

    No they cannot
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Nurfed_You - Harshlands
    Nurfed_You - Harshlands Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    point is josh, your never going to kill a good full r9 psy. wizards cannot hold them in one spot long enough to kill them. rapid nukes are nice if they jsut stand there and let you hit them. faith lets you stand there and dish out the damage but a good psy wont go down to it. Only way i can see it happening is if you get lucky with a psy switching to black voodoo around half hp and you jsut faith>bt hope for a crit. again, a good psy wouldnt do that.

    and tbh if a psy is bad, badge once they are in black then pew pew iwth spark. will prolly one shot them then
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Nurfed_You - Harshlands wrote: »
    point is josh, your never going to kill a good full r9 psy.
    Fully buffed nope, self buffed its just annoying as all hell

    wizards cannot hold them in one spot long enough to kill them. rapid nukes are nice if they jsut stand there and let you hit them. faith lets you stand there and dish out the damage but a good psy wont go down to it. Only way i can see it happening is if you get lucky with a psy switching to black voodoo around half hp and you jsut faith>bt hope for a crit. again, a good psy wouldnt do that.

    Pitfall/Hail as spell one of sutra combo, It makes me cringe but the fist spell is just to tick the charm anywho and chances are you've been pyro gush spaming, that failing just hit sleep when they run and start your sutra combo inside the 10 meter mark. Its not like a full rank 9 JOSD wiz will die to a white vodoo psy. Hell you probobly woln't even charm tick with hp food.

    and tbh if a psy is bad, badge once they are in black then pew pew iwth spark. will prolly one shot them then

    *facepalm*

    Hi i can kill stupid people too. I also have the amazing power of breathing and living at the same time! Now we can A talk tactics to kill dumb people we overgear aka facerolling with rank 9, or B have a discussion of possible ways of fighting another class at equal skill and gear.

    Point is the "turtle forever with white and come out only on apoth cooldown" way of psy fighting simply does not work on an equally geared and skilled player as psys rely on stuns to hold ranged classes down for kills and badge has a 30 second CD making it an effective defense against this when combined with blink and your own apoth/other geni skills. Aka if you actually die to a turtle psy it has better gear by far or you have slow *** reflexes.

    Based my tactics on the psy breaking white before its main immune cooldowns ticked (apoths/AD) for an opportunistic kill on the dumb *** mage who just SOSed themselves. Plyed perfectly on both sides wiz vs psy will end when one crits the other at 1/2 hp on a nuke skill with black up assuming perfect play on both sides so I guess your like 1/8th correct there nurfed.

    IJS 20k mag attack reduced by 75%x2 (average def reduction from base mag def on the psy and pvp reduction) then multiplied by the 52 attack levels you'll have over the fish in black will give 1.875k base damage per hit not factoring skill adds undine or spark. On a 10k unbuffed hp pool you get 15k total damage needed from full unticked hp on a 5 hit sutra with no previous damage or amps we get a base of 9.375k damage, 11.25k with one crit. Killable with luck if you somehow keep them at 50% hp. With undine thats a 50% mag reduction instead of 75% so 3.8k base mag is transfered over thats 19k w/o crits or 22.8k with crits. Wind sheild aint stopping that

    OFC thats with a +12 rank 9 wep with high end rings and shards and a +12 rank 9 target. (then again if its an 11 second SoS your fighing a +12 rank 9 psy)

    So with all that in mind lets follow nerfed's scenario.

    10 meter range and rank 9 +12 psy. SOS ticks, psy goes black. You hit faith and sutra (seals only worth it if your about to die anyways as your already full status immune) pit procs = dead psy unless they ad, If they AD/tranq, meh try again in a minute since they're apperently a turtle. If pit fails and they path away just sleep and just finish the sutra you should get 4 hits total in but if you get server lagged thats fine as you can finish channeling pyro or gush before their control skill channels

    4 hits with undine comes out to = 15.2k enough to kill and our absolute lowest possible damage from combo in this case if they dont immune.
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Nurfed_You - Harshlands
    Nurfed_You - Harshlands Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    read your post, for the sake of not being an archer and checking your math i'm gonna agree. in your happy little world where an unsealed psy trys to tank a wiz in black voodoo when they see the sutra animatino and undine the psy will get killed by that combo. add in the seal and you only have 3 more skills to cast. possibly less depending on server lag and if faith runs out and you are unlucky and get sealed.

    your strategy could work quite well. i may try it in actual pvp and see what happens because most c$'d psys on my server are terrible anyways.

    btw, are your calculations for hte wiz damage based off of jones blessing or o'mally blessing? and did you figure up that hte psy in black voodoo will also be using skills to nuke you down? what would the psys dps be on the wizzie? could the wiz tank the black voodoo damage long enough to use a full sutra? o wait....i forgot were in your perfect scenario where the wiz uses faith and unloads on a psy
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Nurfed is right to a point- you make it sound like the psy's going to sit there and take it just because they're paralyzed. They can still switch back to white if **** hits the fan, or if they use soulburn before you sutra you could kill yourself.

    I personally think that ultimately, discussing ways to beat a "skilled" opponent with a certain equation of skills (badge/fath + psy in black + sutra combo = win) is a waste of time. There's always going to be something the "skilled" psy can do to counter you. Kill equations work on unskilled players because they're predictable and fall for simple tricks. Skilled players don't, and you simply have to practice if you want to beat them, and be able to counter them better than they can counter you.
  • Questro - Lost City
    Questro - Lost City Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Leviath_Imp - Lost City wrote: »
    WTF SOUL OF STUNNING
    I got stunned for 10 seconds from that dis is so imbalanced.
    How can wizzes do sht if they're stunned for 10 secs from a freaking self buff.
    Balance pl0x
    (and im not saying theres any point in hitting SoS, u can just kite forever...
    game gets retardedly boring)
    b:angryb:angryb:cry

    Shouldnt get stun if everytime you see soul of stunning, you hit fortify, same cool down on them. Look at it this way as long as you dont get stun by SoT, you are safe, there is always badge of courage in case you make mistake. If the physic is in white voodo, you are safe. Should always keep undine on them just in case they switch to black voodoo, all it take is 1 fire spell + spark from genie, if it ever crit = finish. Full r9 +12 josd physic die even when their HP is at 80% from DP + spark non crit from a +12 weapon from us.

    Many mistake I see wizard make is wasting FoW, Elemental Shell and sleep on physic when they are in white voodoo. Recommend to save those skill and use it when you see they are in black voodoo. If both equal gear, a wiz is suppose to be an anti-physic. It just take some pratice and correct timing. Dex genie is needed, without it, can take days or month to kill a good physic.
    A crit from Archer usually hurt but a crit from wiz usually mean death.
  • Nurfed_You - Harshlands
    Nurfed_You - Harshlands Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    killanator, faith makes you immune to any effect herp derp. soul burn wouldnt work. I'm yet to fight any good psys who are full r9 w/JoSD but the ones i ahve fought go down to a good sutra crit. or a MS spark>fire spells whie in black voodoo
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Nurfed_You - Harshlands wrote: »
    read your post, for the sake of not being an archer and checking your math i'm gonna agree. in your happy little world where an unsealed psy trys to tank a wiz in black voodoo when they see the sutra animatino and undine the psy will get killed by that combo. add in the seal and you only have 3 more skills to cast. possibly less depending on server lag and if faith runs out and you are unlucky and get sealed.

    Yes because a tactic that accounts for holy path psy skills apos and geni is a happy little world

    your strategy could work quite well. i may try it in actual pvp and see what happens because most c$'d psys on my server are terrible anyways.

    btw, are your calculations for hte wiz damage based off of jones blessing or o'mally blessing? Jones and did you figure up that hte psy in black voodoo will also be using skills to nuke you down? they're not in sutra what would the psys dps be on the wizzie? sutra has a specific skill set. in a specific time frame to lazy to bother with the psy, hint its way lower could the wiz tank the black voodoo damage long enough to use a full sutra? o wait....i forgot were in your perfect scenario where the wiz uses faith and unloads on a psy *facedesk

    20k mag attack on the psy vs 75% def and 68 def levels. = 1.9k per hit base with no skill adds. if they magicly get 5 skills off with one crit in wiz sutra time thats 11.4k

    Yes you will hit them much much much harder than they hit you.
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Nurfed_You - Harshlands
    Nurfed_You - Harshlands Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    you still havent accounted for them saying "o they arent stunned white voodoo" then you have 2sparks gone a dead genie, at which point they switch to black voodoo and peace you. tbh idk enough about psy attack skills to know what htey'd use from there. your 5secs of unloading yoru "sutra skill set" on a psy in black voodoo just got derailed by them changing voodoo. again i say if you take teh time to seal them (so they cant change voodoo), then try to immobilize them with hailstorm or something that you mentioned(so they can't run). that leaves you with like 1 more skill before faith ends and you go back to the pretty good chance of getting sealed?

    i've already agree'd that your tactic could quite possibly work. i'm yet to get a chance to test it out. i'm not really sure why your going on about it still that it could kill them, we all know that it could kill them. there are jsut to many variables for it to be a "fool proof" way of killing them.

    badge takes halfs the genei stamina and if things dont go your way you havn't burnt out your genie. both are viable tactics. yours is far more aggressive adn leaves you open to getting ganked because in pvp, your never alone. the general wizard forums tactic is a little more defensive and allows you to incorporate the fact that other ppl may try to kill you while your fighitng the psy. You can also make this tactic more aggresive and more then likely charm bypassing hte psy if you stack spark after badge.

    so in your happy world of fighting the psy and jsut teh psy have fun using your tactic that will work about 60% of the time and leaves you open to getting killed by the next sin that comes along or bm/ea/ep. i'm guessing the badge combo works about 50% of the time and allows for a windshield/fortify/spark.

    anyways have fun trollin'
    peace out
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Arenaceous - Lost City
    Arenaceous - Lost City Posts: 632 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Well either we are talking about one on one or we are talking about a realistic PK scenario. In a realistic pk scenario we might as well have a BM stun the psy for you so you can sutra on him...
    "Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."

    "Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead."

    - Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
  • Nurfed_You - Harshlands
    Nurfed_You - Harshlands Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    i never get an actual 1v1 unless we are way out in the middle of nowhere with guildies protecting us from woudl be gankers.

    WTB>bm to stun+dg everyone i fight :D paying with...umm...tlc?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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