How to nerf Assassins

Posts: 14 Arc User
edited October 2011 in Assassin
Over reading forums for the past week on sins.. There have been many, many ideas on how to make the sins class more balanced for PvP / PvE. I myself have a r9 (only +5 XD) sin and find it ridiculously OP.. like way too OP. I enjoy playing her a lot, and i love doing **** loads of dmg; however, it doesn't deviate me from feeling that this class srsly needs a nerf and here's how (I honestly think this would work)

Disable BP (like how they disabled the Swim mastery for venos)
Disable Shadow Escape (cause stealthing in battle is just.. wtf..)
Make stealth detectable at close range. (2 meters?)

Without BP, sins can't solo. They'll at least need a healer and tanks (hey barbs) will be needed again.
No Shadow Escape, no escape from pk.
Detectable stealth at close range gives all classes a chance at seeing a stun or close spark from a sin. (All the ideas about buffing stealth potions, reduction stealth time, make stealth use chi etc. just doesn't seem viable)

Edit: Make the leveling for Shadow Walk reduce range where players/mobs can see you. That would be sooo fun having sins actually planning a route to bypass mobs in FC for example, or try to dodge players in PK that they know would 1 shot them otherwise =D

Tell me what you think!
Post edited by Altierna - Heavens Tear on

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  • Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    ok i dont play a sin i think the gameplay is *yawn* but ....

    in response to BP this proves aps was planned ...

    only class that can make this work without aps is seekers (not just vortex) and i dont go looking for it

    i think maybe they tried to do something with stealth giving seeker edged blur but can be used once and with repercussion

    i dont even think stealth would be so bad if it wasnt so exploitable.

    come on running through all your fbs/dungeon straight to the bosses with a high lvl sin
    (if this is correct only heard as a rumor)

    other than that kill the dex add abit to att ? its like a close range archer on roids

    but when a good seeker and good sin clash in a no stealth battle it can be epic
  • Posts: 631 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Without BP, sins can't solo. They'll at least need a healer and tanks (hey barbs) will be needed again.
    Common misconception. Yes, they would need healers, but this would affect barbs less than you imply. Plenty of Archers tank just fine with a cleric, and they don't have BP.
  • Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Um... Bloodpaint isn't the problem. It's the ridiculously high DPS. And that rolls right back into the whole APS/Demon Spark nerfing discussion.

    If Bloodpaint itself was the problem, then any sin above lvl 34 would be like a walking god. I sure remember being squishy when I was in the lower levels. I first started being really strong around 80 with 1.82 aps.

    And what would happen to all the spirit and coin used to level the skills and buy the books? Sage BP regularly goes for about 30,000,000 coins and the costs of learning up to 11 come to 2,690,100 spirit and 3,096,000 coin.

    And you're forgetting the original purpose of bloodpaint: To make sins less squishy. They are the only natively melee range DD that uses LA. Archers don't really count since using claws is a choice that they make on their own. And in PvE outside of bosses, Archers pretty much always use their bows instead of claws.

    As for Shadow Escape. I really, really hate it when people use PK as a reason to completely nerf the skill in some way. If it's such a bother in PvP, just make it unusable in PvP, simple as that. No need to make it useless in PvE as well.

    And removing Bloodpaint wouldn't really do as much as you seem to believe. Even if the DPS is much lower than other options, Unconsciousness: Nirvana still has the Blood Defect proc. And any sin with maximum -interval could get 2.86/4.0 aps with that, which would most likely be enough to enable them to solo, it'd just take a bit longer.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Perma CoD, problem solved. At least Sins would have to learn to time control skills instead of hur dur faceroll after first stun. They'll still be able to kill AA/LA and HA with inferior gears. They can still spark to 4 or 5 APS with fists for PvE.
  • Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Common misconception. Yes, they would need healers, but this would affect barbs less than you imply. Plenty of Archers tank just fine with a cleric, and they don't have BP.

    The common problem is Sins deal dmg at a degree no tank can hold aggro; hence tanking is a mute role. Sins would have to watch their dmg output without BP, giving tanking classes the opportunity to hold aggro. Yes, LA and definitely HA classes can tank most pretty much anything within lvl along side a cleric. My point is to give sins OP solo'ing ability a nerf.
  • Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Disable Shadow Escape (cause stealthing in battle is just.. wtf..)
    Make stealth detectable at close range. (2 meters?)QUOTE]

    i have a problem with these two first shadow escape. shadow escape is not for stealthing in battle it is an escape skill (thats why it resets agro) it gives us a chance to get the f- out of a tight spot also i need this skill as i have used it many times and even though im only 30 it is kind of a given skill that is needed at all lvl not now but in a bloop paintless instance without BP we sins have no HP going in we kill faster sure but sins are squishy

    making stealth detectable first why do this? if the sin is 2 meters away from you they will hit you in a second or two se even if you did see he/she, he/she would already be starting thier skill before you finish charging for yours also sins will just start using shadow teleport to get the first hit from a distace and then it will be useless having sins see able at that 2 meter range

    just voicing suggestion but yeah sins do need to be nerf i have played many sins on many games and this is the most broken one i have ever played bye all
  • Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Um... Bloodpaint isn't the problem. It's the ridiculously high DPS. And that rolls right back into the whole APS/Demon Spark nerfing discussion.

    If Bloodpaint itself was the problem, then any sin above lvl 34 would be like a walking god. I sure remember being squishy when I was in the lower levels. I first started being really strong around 80 with 1.82 aps.

    And what would happen to all the spirit and coin used to level the skills and buy the books? Sage BP regularly goes for about 30,000,000 coins and the costs of learning up to 11 come to 2,690,100 spirit and 3,096,000 coin.

    And you're forgetting the original purpose of bloodpaint: To make sins less squishy. They are the only natively melee range DD that uses LA. Archers don't really count since using claws is a choice that they make on their own. And in PvE outside of bosses, Archers pretty much always use their bows instead of claws.

    As for Shadow Escape. I really, really hate it when people use PK as a reason to completely nerf the skill in some way. If it's such a bother in PvP, just make it unusable in PvP, simple as that. No need to make it useless in PvE as well.

    And removing Bloodpaint wouldn't really do as much as you seem to believe. Even if the DPS is much lower than other options, Unconsciousness: Nirvana still has the Blood Defect proc. And any sin with maximum -interval could get 2.86/4.0 aps with that, which would most likely be enough to enable them to solo, it'd just take a bit longer.

    Whats wrong with a class that does what.. 500k dps at end game being squishy? Make Sins squishy.

    Shadow Escape adds 1 spark.. like wtf, remove it.

    You just mentioned without BP sins would be squishy.. so yes, without BP sins would be greatly affected. BP gives u 2% health back per hit.. at lvl 34... of course its not gonna do jack. At 4 to 5 aps and dealing 50k a hit? You do the math.
  • Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited October 2011

    As posted above, shadow walk gives you 1 spark. For an "Oh ****" skill, isn't that a little OP?. Name another class that can just walk out of a battle at will (other than force close).

    Having sins detectable at close range gives all classes a chance to see whats coming. If 2 meters is too close, make it 5. Thats what test servers are for no?
  • Posts: 631 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Sins would have to watch their dmg output without BP, giving tanking classes the opportunity to hold aggro..
    This is what I am saying wouldn't happen. Why would a Sin without BP, slow down and do less damage so a barb can tank, when he can fine while the cleric is healing him?
    If this was the case, you wouldn't have Archer tanks with barbs in squad currently. Which pushes your argument beyond sins. Archers can do this, so can BM's. The sheer amount of perma-sparked damage is what keeps aggro. Sure Sins have more, but its not just limited to them, and BP has nothing to do with it.

    As posted above, shadow walk gives you 1 spark. For an "Oh ****" skill, isn't that a little OP?. Name another class that can just walk out of a battle at will (other than force close).
    This I never thought was right. Force stealth.........the skill itself should be left as it is, though I have always thought it should cost a spark, not gain one.
  • Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    lol why is so complicated just cap the APS the 3.33 (at least) and timer the shadow walk is that so hard?
  • Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    This is what I am saying wouldn't happen. Why would a Sin without BP, slow down and do less damage so a barb can tank, when he can fine while the cleric is healing him?
    If this was the case, you wouldn't have Archer tanks with barbs in squad currently. Which pushes your argument beyond sins. Archers can do this, so can BM's. The sheer amount of perma-sparked damage is what keeps aggro. Sure Sins have more, but its not just limited to them, and BP has nothing to do with it.


    This I never thought was right. Force stealth.........the skill itself should be left as it is, though I have always thought it should cost a spark, not gain one.

    My idea of removing BP isn't entirely to say tanks and tanks and dps need to control their dps. The biggest impact of BP is when a sin is solo'ing. Even in squads, there are tons of content where Bosses can 1 to 2 shot a sin even with BB up. If BP was removed, wouldn't they try to be a lil less reckless?

    The problem with this game right now, pve wise, is that its too easy. Make bosses hit harder, give bosses more abilities, more debuffs, and again, nerf sins..
  • Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Whats wrong with a class that does what.. 500k dps at end game being squishy? Make Sins squishy.

    I have no clue what kind of drugs you're doing, but they must be pretty strong. Even this monstrosity, which represents maybe 0.001% of all sins, has only an average DPS of 271,024, which isn't even 60% of what you claimed.

    Oh, for the record, any class is OP at R9 +12.
    Shadow Escape adds 1 spark.. like wtf, remove it.

    Yeah because that's so very OP. I got Sage Shadow Escape and the only situations I use it in are:
    1. To get 1 spark on login
    2. To self purify
    3. To reset aggro
    You just mentioned without BP sins would be squishy.. so yes, without BP sins would be greatly affected. BP gives u 2% health back per hit.. at lvl 34... of course its not gonna do jack. At 4 to 5 aps and dealing 50k a hit? You do the math.

    Sins below 80 would pretty much be useless.

    And again, you're only bringing up the Super Endgame version of it. I got 2.5 aps and Sage BP and I sure as hell still die a lot in PvE.

    If you're going to complain about sins hitting 50k at 4-5 aps with, say, Rank 9, then you might as well complain that R9 archers get 5 aps, 30m+ range on a bow that has an unsparked DPS of something like 50k and they easily oneshot mobs. Or about how a R9 psychic can pull all the mobs of FCC from start to finish and solokill them. Or how an R9 Barb gets 30-40k HP easily. Or how godly R9 BMs are with their axes and AoEs.

    Seriously, just go complain something more relevant, like "Super Endgame is overpowered!"
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    asferon wrote: »
    lol why is so complicated just cap the APS the 3.33 (at least) and timer the shadow walk is that so hard?

    capping aps has would work to a certain degree, but also bring other problems. For example, if aps was indeed capped at 3.33. Sins can now use cube necks and warsong belts making them official tanks, yet still dealing **** loads of dps. And what will happen to demon spark? 3.33 is easily reachable prespark.
  • Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Sins Op How you dare to say that?b:shutup

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvMdxcuAV4k
  • Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I have no clue what kind of drugs you're doing, but they must be pretty strong. Even this monstrosity, which represents maybe 0.001% of all sins, has only an average DPS of 271,024, which isn't even 60% of what you claimed.

    Oh, for the record, any class is OP at R9 +12.

    Facepalm* you srsly need to redo ur math. A r9+12 sin can crit for 271024 in a hit..

    Yeah because that's so very OP. I got Sage Shadow Escape and the only situations I use it in are:
    1. To get 1 spark on login
    2. To self purify
    3. To reset aggro

    Great, you the only sin I know that uses it only for that.



    Sins below 80 would pretty much be useless.

    Sins below 80 are useless

    And again, you're only bringing up the Super Endgame version of it. I got 2.5 aps and Sage BP and I sure as hell still die a lot in PvE.

    Then you need to actually get end game gear. All QQ for sins comes from end game anyway. So yes my thread IS a Endgame version

    If you're going to complain about sins hitting 50k at 4-5 aps with, say, Rank 9, then you might as well complain that R9 archers get 5 aps, 30m+ range on a bow that has an unsparked DPS of something like 50k and they easily oneshot mobs. Or about how a R9 psychic can pull all the mobs of FCC from start to finish and solokill them. Or how an R9 Barb gets 30-40k HP easily. Or how godly R9 BMs are with their axes and AoEs.

    Seriously, just go complain something more relevant, like "Super Endgame is overpowered!"

    You just lost all ur credibility
  • Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    You just lost all ur credibility

    1. There is no mistakes in my math.

    [(Max + Min)/2]*(1+crit%)*aps*(1+(atklvl/100))

    And according to the pwcalc, if you get a crit and a zerk proc, you'd be looking at ~204,084 damage maximum.

    Of course, if you start counting in things like Enrage and Subsea and Mire, you can pretty much double that. But then again that's not consistent.

    2. Yeah, because I don't PvP in games that depend mostly on gear.

    3. Yeah because there is absolutely nothing to do before 80, right? b:cute

    4. Well again, if you're going to QQ about endgame, at least make it valid. R9 Psychics can pull all mobs in FCC and solokill them, that's ****ing OP. R9 Barbs get like 40k HP, that's OP. R9 archers can oneshot majority of all things from 30 meters away. R9 BMs have insane AoEs. R9 Wizards can oneshot you. See where this is going?

    Either you're an idiot or a troll. Waste of time either way.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    1. There is no mistakes in my math.

    [(Max + Min)/2]*(1+crit%)*aps*(1+(atklvl/100))

    And according to the pwcalc, if you get a crit and a zerk proc, you'd be looking at ~204,084 damage maximum.

    Of course, if you start counting in things like Enrage and Subsea and Mire, you can pretty much double that. But then again that's not consistent.

    Then you're saying sins can do more dmg than what you previously stated. You forgot Wolf Emblem + PowerDash

    2. Yeah, because I don't PvP in games that depend mostly on gear.

    Then you have credibility how?

    3. Yeah because there is absolutely nothing to do before 80, right? b:cute

    There's tons to do pre-80. Doesnt change the fact that sins are still weaklings at 80.

    4. Well again, if you're going to QQ about endgame, at least make it valid. R9 Psychics can pull all mobs in FCC and solokill them, that's ****ing OP. R9 Barbs get like 40k HP, that's OP. R9 archers can oneshot majority of all things from 30 meters away. R9 BMs have insane AoEs. R9 Wizards can oneshot you. See where this is going?

    Sins can kill ? bosses in seconds. Sins can Heal themselves. Sins can kill that 40k hp barb of yours before its charm even ticks. BMs fall even faster. Wizzies can't 1 shot what they can't see. Psychics? yes they're OP.

    Either you're an idiot or a troll. Waste of time either way.

    Both wrong. Question your own stupidity.
  • Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I don't see too much wrong with aps, but maybe thats because I'm an older experienced player. I like seeing growth in the game. I remember doing 4 hour 1-3's. Can you imagine the current 3-x's without decent aps? For instance taking an hour to kill the GBA boss and watching the GBA's go from 800k to 10 mil each, lol. Every gold mat would be chipped. Rank gear would be almost 100% of peoples gear and everyone would need 200k rep to have 99+ gear. Then all the QQers who weren't wanted because they didn't have aps would be begging for aps back to farm gear for them.


    As for sins, I agree that they are overpowered in pk and pve. I think the reason is because they have the perfect combination of weapon attack speed and base damage. Fists could actually reach 10 aps on a sin/archer and 6.66 aps on everything else if it weren't capped already but because 5 aps is the cap the best weapon to reach it and still have the highest base damage on the weapon (think about 25% higher base damage than fists) are daggers which only 1 class can use. So the solution seems to either reduce the base damage on daggers or reduce the base attack speed. Right now its .8 second per attack (1.25 aps). What would you think of .9 (1.11 aps) or .85 seconds/atk (1.17).

    Or another effective way to reduce dps for sins would be not give them the same damage multiplier for dexterity as everyone else gets with strength. For most classes 1/150 str is 1 damage multiplier and every 20 dexterity is 1 crit. Why not make it something like 1/200 dex=1 dmg multiplier for daggers or every 30 dex=1 crit?

    I see stealth as both a major advantage in pvp and a useful tool but every class has its advantages and unique specialties in pvp. I like the idea of 2-5 meter unstealthing, at least beyond the range of daggers (having to move at least a step after popping stealth before attacking is fair. Again, the issue to me is that they can kill most classes in a hit or two from stealth, or at least in a spark duration. Remove some of that power and them unstealthing while attacking is less of an advantage.

    And don't mess with bloodpaint, its a benefit to all classes and a necessity to such a squishy class. It is their self heal. Take that away and you should remove every other classes self heal just to be fair. I can see a bloodpaint nerf while triple sparked valid (+500% weapon dmg but bloodpaint is 50% as effective, something like this).
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Sorry for double post but...Olbaze is right about dps. Actually, about pretty much everything he stated. Altierna, it looks like you bought/rushed your sin to 90+ but don't know much about them yet. Looks like other than the character you paid to have leveled your highest character is an 86 veno?


    Although in showing his dps calcs he didn't add 30% GoF damage:
    ave dmg x aps x GoF x atk levels
    ((23040+27284)/2) x 4 aps x 1.3 GoF x 1.84 attack levels = 352332


    When calcing dps you don't consider amps, skill damage, genie skills... because they're non sustainable and vary based on the squad. Also, any skill usage is hard to calculate because things like Power Dash take time to cast, so showing a 1 second screen of dps changes because you could be casting the skill and have 0 dps, you could have just casted it and have 40% more dps, or it could have worn off.

    Also in 1v1 why would your solo opponent have a veno amp on them? Shouldn't consider how much a fully buffed sin can do on a fully debuffed mob/player while using genies.


    Pre 80 sins are still decent enough. For me it started in the 40's. In my 70's I was stealth soloing BH51s for people. It's a gear dependant class. One of the most expensive, but also one with the most rewards.



    And I think Olba's point is don't plan on nerfing a class because 1:1000 of the sin population is overpowered. $5000 of gear should be overpowered, lol.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Then all the QQers who weren't wanted because they didn't have aps would be begging for aps back to farm gear for them.
    .

    not really i farmed my own tt70/80/90 gold + firelotus gold sword and finally rank 8 and i have 1.11 basic aps but then again maybe its my def or my experience in this games early days

    people are just to lazy to wait their fault they cant grind it or work out a plan to succeed
  • Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    also seriously though Sakubatou wasnt they the best TT's you have been on =]
  • Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    also seriously though Sakubatou wasnt they the best TT's you have been on =]

    This'll make me sound like a nerd, but I get amped by efficiency. 4 hours for a single TT with my faction mates and friends were great, but I'd have preferred 4 hours for 20 TT's with my faction mates and friends and to have a little spending money for myself and them so we all improved alot.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Posts: 377 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Over reading forums for the past week on sins.. There have been many, many ideas on how to make the sins class more balanced for PvP / PvE. I myself have a r9 (only +5 XD) sin and find it ridiculously OP.. like way too OP. I enjoy playing her a lot, and i love doing **** loads of dmg; however, it doesn't deviate me from feeling that this class srsly needs a nerf and here's how (I honestly think this would work)

    Disable BP (like how they disabled the Swim mastery for venos)
    Disable Shadow Escape (cause stealthing in battle is just.. wtf..)
    Make stealth detectable at close range. (2 meters?)

    Without BP, sins can't solo. They'll at least need a healer and tanks (hey barbs) will be needed again.
    No Shadow Escape, no escape from pk.
    Detectable stealth at close range gives all classes a chance at seeing a stun or close spark from a sin. (All the ideas about buffing stealth potions, reduction stealth time, make stealth use chi etc. just doesn't seem viable)

    Edit: Make the leveling for Shadow Walk reduce range where players/mobs can see you. That would be sooo fun having sins actually planning a route to bypass mobs in FC for example, or try to dodge players in PK that they know would 1 shot them otherwise =D

    Tell me what you think!

    lol wtf. spend 500m on R9, then only spend 4mil on refines. okay.jpg

    no without BP sins can solo just fine, just a little more charm tick.
    no shadow escape? escape just fine. it's called run ever heard of it?
    youtube channel: youtube.com/user/chezedude
  • Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    asferon wrote: »
    Sins Op How you dare to say that?b:shutup

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvMdxcuAV4k

    Lol, lol, lol.

    Show a vid and now thats common,

    A sin by luck managed to do that and now is a fact, sins hit 500k even unsparked.

    Anyway the class is strong but PKwise a 5 aps G13 vana won't bring down a charmed R9 barb even if he's afk.

    TW? R9 wizies and psys are more usefull than sins.

    Cap aps only to sins?
    Doesn't sound unfair at the least?
    What will Demons do?
    What all sins who paid a lot on interval gear do?
    Although it sounds interestin, imagine sins with r9 weapon and a hybrid R9 - TT set, hmm, that would make the class more OP.b:laugh
    The voices in my head might not be real..............................................................but they have some good ideas!
  • Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Sorry for double post but...Olbaze is right about dps. Actually, about pretty much everything he stated. Altierna, it looks like you bought/rushed your sin to 90+ but don't know much about them yet. Looks like other than the character you paid to have leveled your highest character is an 86 veno?

    I'm proud to say i've never plvled ever.. not on my sin, not on my veno. Unless u considering solo FFing with Hyper plvling.
  • Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I'm proud to say i've never plvled ever.. not on my sin, not on my veno. Unless u considering solo FFing with Hyper plvling.

    Well you're sounding like a beginner in these forums, which makes the fact that you've spent time playing the class more of a joke. Try listening to some experienced players advice.


    asferon wrote: »
    Sins Op How you dare to say that?b:shutup

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvMdxcuAV4k

    Lol, he's killing a level 65 mob while triple sparked with Devour, Subsea, and Mire stacked with a rank 9 +12 weapon and 490 dex to get those 200k+ crits, 400k with HF. That's not too much higher than my claws, lol.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Over reading forums for the past week on sins.. There have been many, many ideas on how to make the sins class more balanced for PvP / PvE. I myself have a r9 (only +5 XD) sin and find it ridiculously OP.. like way too OP. I enjoy playing her a lot, and i love doing **** loads of dmg; however, it doesn't deviate me from feeling that this class srsly needs a nerf and here's how (I honestly think this would work)

    Luckily, there are some sins that do realise they are OP and wouldn't mind to be nerfed, to improove general gameplay.

    Personally I see 2 different problems that make sins so OP :
    1) Stealth related to 1 vs 1 pk. Having a guaranteed 1st hit, on a class with so many controlskills, in a game where pk is a mere contest of who 1-shots the other first, does make sins OP.

    I think the idea of a small perimetre that knocks sins out of stealth is a a good idea, but not sure if it is easy to put in place. How to stealth in crowded areas when you only want to avoid to get pk'ed? Then again, being in pk-mode or on a pk server, that is pretty much the purpose.
    Some other ideas I heard, and think are viable : Make stealth cost like 10~20 chi per second, so they can't stay in stealth to long, or cast control skills (that all cost chi) so easily. Or, make stealth give a physical attack reduction that lasts a little after they get out of stealth.

    2) The OP dps compared to other classes, which is related to the general "aps and permaspark problem". This is a bit harder to fix, since sins have a lot of chi skills. So it will be hard to make a nerf that doesn't favor sins. They already have a weapon that is better then fists, especially in combination with the rank8 plate (same aps daggers + plate compared to fists, with higher attack and all damage+crits from dex points). This is what makes sins (or others) able to solo : perma-spark. Seekers can solo a lot, it will just take ages.

    How to fix that? I'd love to see aps based a same system as -channeling, instead of steps of -0.05 seconds between hits. That is what makes -int have an exponential effect which favors weapons with high base aps, and makes that fists are used by anyone and everyone. Changing this would, I suppose, be difficult. Maybe a cd on spark for all classes?


    I don't like how these days, a class is only good for 1 thing, and sucks at all the rest. I think any class must be usefull enough in an instance, to prevent ppl from wc for ages to find a specific class. Prefering a sin for vana, nothing wrong with that. WC'ing 30min for a sin for vana when there is a psychic ready to come, that's bad.

    I hear the argument of "we don't want 2h+ TT back like the old days". But honestly, those ppl should just stop smoking whatever they took before posting. 2h+ TT will never come back. I also played at that time. When Calamity axes +3 were freaking OP, when ppl used TT80 or TT90 with maximum of +3 refines, when 80s was "endgame", when the only lvl11 skills were tigermaw/stomp of beastking/drawblood and when herc was the ultimate DD on lvl? bosses. Guess what, my super cleric with average r8 +3, already gets aggro off that ultimate DD of the old days. Since the "average" went from 3* to TT90 +3 with average shards to R8 +5 with perfects, there is no such thing anymore as 2h+ TT.

    On 1 side, ppl complain there is nothing fun to do, no endgame content, no challenge. But on the other side, the idea of not being able to kill a boss before it casts it's special attacks, fightens the hell out of them. Sure, I don't really want the old TT back, when it was 20min per boss. But that will never happen anyway. Less then 1 min per boss is actually worse then it was before.

    But hey, I'm just a weird guy who doesn't mind to waste time while playing a game. That is what I hate most atm : All that competition ingame of being the best, needing to be "5 aps" for anything, complain it's so OP but wc for "aps" anyway, saying how r9 ruins everything but love to run with r9 sins, etc etc. What about this idea : If all classes had a use for most (if not all) aspects of the game, nobody would need to lvl and gear up 1 toon for TW, 1 for rebirth, 1 for bh, 1 for fcc, 1 for farming and 1 for pk. Maybe instances would be a bit longer (and more challenging), but you will still stop wasting so much time on keeping yourself busy to cover each instance/event.
  • Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Well you're sounding like a beginner in these forums, which makes the fact that you've spent time playing the class more of a joke. Try listening to some experienced players advice.

    I wasn't asking for advice lol



    Lol, he's killing a level 65 mob while triple sparked with Devour, Subsea, and Mire stacked with a rank 9 +12 weapon and 490 dex to get those 200k+ crits, 400k with HF. That's not too much higher than my claws, lol.

    I've played pwi since its launch.. and played the sin since launch... just letting you know.
  • Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Luckily, there are some sins that do realise they are OP and wouldn't mind to be nerfed, to improove general gameplay.

    Personally I see 2 different problems that make sins so OP :
    1) Stealth related to 1 vs 1 pk. Having a guaranteed 1st hit, on a class with so many controlskills, in a game where pk is a mere contest of who 1-shots the other first, does make sins OP.

    I think the idea of a small perimetre that knocks sins out of stealth is a a good idea, but not sure if it is easy to put in place. How to stealth in crowded areas when you only want to avoid to get pk'ed? Then again, being in pk-mode or on a pk server, that is pretty much the purpose.
    Some other ideas I heard, and think are viable : Make stealth cost like 10~20 chi per second, so they can't stay in stealth to long, or cast control skills (that all cost chi) so easily. Or, make stealth give a physical attack reduction that lasts a little after they get out of stealth.






    Easiest way to fix stealth, spark and skill usage make stealth go away.
    The voices in my head might not be real..............................................................but they have some good ideas!
  • Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Easiest way to fix stealth, spark and skill usage make stealth go away.

    how does that stop sins from stealths stuns?

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