APS Should Be Nerfed PVP Only

24

Comments

  • ThunderBuns - Heavens Tear
    ThunderBuns - Heavens Tear Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    archer will win most kitting contests with a BM...b:shutup
  • Vodevil - Harshlands
    Vodevil - Harshlands Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Aps is not the problem, sins are the problem.

    My proposition is to able stealth only in PVE. Sins would be unable to be attacked in pvp while they are in stealth but they couldnt attack anyone but mobs.

    Like this they could still escape a fight with stealth but couldnt jump on target with 2 spark, anti stun, IG, frenzy and mire at same time..
  • SashaGray - Heavens Tear
    SashaGray - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,765 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    this thread is now about bacon strips
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  • Hexalot - Dreamweaver
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver Posts: 871 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Agreed... so then, the question was "is APS still a problem if you're only talking about BMs?"

    And for that I return to my original argument, that being that it's a far worse problem in PVE than it is in PVP. I would still argue that it's significant in PVP though, since once that BM gets to you you're pretty much toast, whereas without APS, a person in a BM's melee range still has a few options.

    You do realize that many (if not most) true end game PvP Bms use axes to PvP right ?

    Once it procs, a +12 R9 Zerk axe will one shot most casters and even quite a few LAs out there. And of course, axes have no real attack speed to speak of.

    Also, and as someone else pointed out above, Casters and Archers have the definitive advantage when it comes to a kiting contest between them and BMs. 35 meters may not seem like much but that's a LOT of ground to make up while getting fired on at every pause.
  • RunningTiger - Dreamweaver
    RunningTiger - Dreamweaver Posts: 243 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    So how is it any different if a bm or sin aps you to death an if a rank 9+12 archers,wiz or psy simply rain death on you in one or two hits?Whats more they rain death on entire groups unlike aps users. So what was suppose to be op about aps in pvp?
  • Hexalot - Dreamweaver
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver Posts: 871 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    RunningTiger - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    So how is it any different if a bm or sin aps you to death an if a rank 9+12 archers,wiz or psy simply rain death on you in one or two hits?Whats more they rain death on entire groups unlike aps users. So what was suppose to be op about aps in pvp?

    Exactly.

    Aps in PvP (particularly the group variety) is completely insignificant compared to what Casters are capable of. And the only reason its even a factor in 1 vs 1 PvP is due more to the other skills brought to bear by the melee class in question (stealth, stun locks) than the interval itself. Nerfing aps in PvP won't change squat.
  • _Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary
    _Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary Posts: 993 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Exactly.

    Aps in PvP (particularly the group variety) is completely insignificant compared to what Casters are capable of. And the only reason its even a factor in 1 vs 1 PvP is due more to the other skills brought to bear by the melee class in question (stealth, stun locks) than the interval itself. Nerfing aps in PvP won't change squat.

    Casters are more squishy to P damage than Physical attackers are to magic damage.
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  • CessiI - Dreamweaver
    CessiI - Dreamweaver Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    You do realize that many (if not most) true end game PvP Bms use axes to PvP right ?

    Once it procs, a +12 R9 Zerk axe will one shot most casters and even quite a few LAs out there. And of course, axes have no real attack speed to speak of.

    you my friend, earned yourself a cookie,

    BMs dont need fists to pvp, im doin fine on my barb, with my nirvy hammers, and those dont even come close to rank 9 axes.

    if i where a BM i would just get myself a set of tanking gear, rank9 or full nirvy. and get a second cast poleblade and axe.

    APS for farming, or twitching squishys to death.
  • jimbillybob46310
    jimbillybob46310 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    UMMM.........FYI BMs dont use APS for endgame BECAUSE their R9 doesnt offer it.
    IF R9 offered BMs APS THEY WOULD BE USING IT.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    _Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Casters are more squishy to P damage than Physical attackers are to magic damage.

    lol wat
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
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  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    _Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Casters are more squishy to P damage than Physical attackers are to magic damage.

    Holy ****, I didn't realize we BMs had a skill that reduced all magical damage by more than 80% for 20 out of 30 seconds. Or that we had yet another skill that reduces damage by more than 60% to create a loop of one defensive skill to another. Could you please tell me what these wonderous BM skills are, and where we can find skill books for them? All we have right now is Mag Marrow, which only helps boosting our mag def at the cost of being weaker to physical damage, so I am very interested in getting these magical skills you allude to.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

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  • Lord_Ghetto - Dreamweaver
    Lord_Ghetto - Dreamweaver Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    _Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Casters are more squishy to P damage than Physical attackers are to magic damage.

    yup yups an this is why a veno i no hits me for 5k+ fully buffed (tt99 armor exception nirv leggings) with alter marrow and i only hit her for roughly 900ish per hit

    veno useing r8+10 tho b:surrender
    "Don't argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their lv and beat you with experience." b:surrender b:laugh
  • So_Wet - Sanctuary
    So_Wet - Sanctuary Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    tbh i totally agree with it shud cap it at like 2aps in pvp but.. saying tht u dont really need aps even on a barb with 20k hp in pvp
    u can still crit a hefty sum like chill frenzy ful dot;s thts 120 atk lvls w/o r9 and +12 demon headhunt u can easily wack a 10-15k crit threw HA and thts one skill with a 6 second stun demon headhunt then just wack a few more skills in there dosent have to be aps, but thats threw non r9 users i guess its different for everyone coz full JoSD in everything 45k hp barb we cud just say the same coz damn even 5.0 +12 i only do what 500-1.5ks threw gear like tht thats alot of hits tbh
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  • _Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary
    _Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary Posts: 993 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    lol wat
    Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Holy ****, I didn't realize we BMs had a skill that reduced all magical damage by more than 80% for 20 out of 30 seconds. Or that we had yet another skill that reduces damage by more than 60% to create a loop of one defensive skill to another. Could you please tell me what these wonderous BM skills are, and where we can find skill books for them? All we have right now is Mag Marrow, which only helps boosting our mag def at the cost of being weaker to physical damage, so I am very interested in getting these magical skills you allude to.
    Lord_Ghetto - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    yup yups an this is why a veno i no hits me for 5k+ fully buffed (tt99 armor exception nirv leggings) with alter marrow and i only hit her for roughly 900ish per hit

    veno useing r8+10 tho b:surrender

    Mountcrasher Plate:
    http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/14926

    655 Elemental Def

    Acrobatic Robe:
    http://www.pwdatabase.com/items/14950

    171 Physical Def

    Both TT90.

    Noobs.
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Because fighting unbuffed, unsharded, without refined ornaments, and in TT90s is totally the "in" thing these days. You're making yourself look more and more stupid.
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
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  • Lord_Ghetto - Dreamweaver
    Lord_Ghetto - Dreamweaver Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    _Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Mountcrasher Plate:
    http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/14926

    655 Elemental Def

    Acrobatic Robe:
    http://www.pwdatabase.com/items/14950

    171 Physical Def

    Both TT90.

    Noobs.

    yup yups gear is all that has to do wit pvp just like skills that add base dmg+500% base weapon dmg +9k wizz bids lv10....or base dmg+ 300% + 4.5k veno parasitic nova...while bm's strongest skill is base dmg+ 100% +4k lv10 hf

    hmmm...wats the bigger number here 100%? or 300/500%? not to mention arcanes tend to have a much higher base dmg stats...hit for hit arcanes hit MUCH harder then mele classes except mehb when i crit

    how about you keep a dmg counter an see wat ppl atcually hit for
    "Don't argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their lv and beat you with experience." b:surrender b:laugh
  • Broederjr - Lost City
    Broederjr - Lost City Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Lord_Ghetto - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    yup yups gear is all that has to do wit pvp just like skills that add base dmg+500% base weapon dmg +9k wizz bids lv10....or base dmg+ 300% + 4.5k veno parasitic nova...while bm's strongest skill is base dmg+ 100% +4k lv10 hf

    hmmm...wats the bigger number here 100%? or 300/500%? not to mention arcanes tend to have a much higher base dmg stats...hit for hit arcanes hit MUCH harder then mele classes except mehb when i crit

    how about you keep a dmg counter an see wat ppl atcually hit for

    QFT like they said be4 arcanes cant complain unless they even it out sure we got 5 aps yet getting 1 hit for 30k+ for 30meters isnt broken i would ide to see a wiz hit me with pyrogram for same damage a bm tige maw does which is less tehn 3 digits ijs
  • Nniotora - Lost City
    Nniotora - Lost City Posts: 446 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    lets hijack this tread and make it Magic Attacks should be Nerfed Both PVE and PVP
    100% F2P legit 105 since starting this game. Full rank9 jaded +12 seeker. .tinyurl.com/nocashshopHaters gona hate cuz they cant play a game
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    _Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Mountcrasher Plate:
    http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/14926

    655 Elemental Def

    Acrobatic Robe:
    http://www.pwdatabase.com/items/14950

    171 Physical Def

    Both TT90.

    Noobs.

    Plume Shell 80% damage reduction lvl 10
    http://www.pwdatabase.com/items/936

    Guardian Light 60% damage reduction
    http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/19792

    Mag Marrow is not as close to such types of protection.

    Learn the skills of your class

    Pack Noob.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Nerfing APS only for PvP would be highly biased. You'd basically eliminate the inconvenient part, e.g. getting wtfpwnd by autoattacking sins in PvP, and get only the good stuff, e.g. fast farming of endgame instances.

    Freaking hypocritical bull****.

    b:cute
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  • Nightsfangs - Archosaur
    Nightsfangs - Archosaur Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    _Bloody_Fox_ - Lost City wrote: »
    Yes that is a reasonable nerf no?


    Really How many of these??????????????b:surrender
    The voices in my head might not be real..............................................................but they have some good ideas!
  • Nightsfangs - Archosaur
    Nightsfangs - Archosaur Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Nerfing APS only for PvP would be highly biased. You'd basically eliminate the inconvenient part, e.g. getting wtfpwnd by autoattacking sins in PvP, and get only the good stuff, e.g. fast farming of endgame instances.

    Freaking hypocritical bull****.

    b:cute

    Totaly agreeb:victory
    The voices in my head might not be real..............................................................but they have some good ideas!
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    You double posted 20 minutes later just for that? Really?
  • _Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary
    _Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary Posts: 993 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

    Pack Noob.

    LOL. Look at my join date you scrub.

    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Because fighting unbuffed, unsharded, without refined ornaments, and in TT90s is totally the "in" thing these days. You're making yourself look more and more stupid.

    Umm why is it that we need to shard with Garnets??? how many BM's do you know have half their shards be Sapphires?? BM's rarely have more than one Elemental Def Ornament. Why? Because they do not need it. The point is that normally Melee classes have more mag res than Mag classes have P def.
    Don't believe me? Hit up the calculator. Call me stupid all you want doesnt change the fact that you are ignorant. But I guess I shouldn't blame you for not knowing anything about pvp. Carebear.
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    OK pro PvPer, how come no one on LC is agreeing with you? First of all who said casters need to shard pdef? It's HP, unless you can reach over 9k, in which case you shard Jades, either of which provides protection against both types of damage anyway.

    At endgame, ornaments play a much bigger role toward defense than armor. Orns that give pdef are better than orns that give mdef (compare the 2 Cube necklaces) There are 2 party pdef buffs vs 1 party mdef buff. For some classes, they have 3 pdef buffs. Before you try to claim that not all casters have a 3rd pdef buff, I'd like to point out that not all physical classes have marrow either. I am well aware of how high a BM's mdef can reach with marrow, yet you seem to be completely ignorant of how high a wizard's pdef can reach.

    For any BM to be APS means he is forfeiting R9's set bonuses, which means that BM is now at least 50 attack levels and 10 def levels behind most high end casters. Now who's more vulnerable to who's type of damage?

    Theoretically, other classes, like barbs, archers, can reach 10k-11k mdef, while 10k pdef is not uncommon for fully buffed clerics as well. Archers for that matter will rarely reach 10k mdef because most archers don't wear mdef orns anyway. This is even assuming they are wearing +10 Rings of Eternal Solitude, which again, not many people actually wear.
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • peacefulsilence
    peacefulsilence Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    lol, more like bramble should be nerfed in pvp. Melee users might as well be killing themselves reguardless of aps.

    inb4 ******* going on about protecting yourself. You can do the same when being attacked by aps and dph
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    peacefulsilence wrote: »
    lol, more like bramble should be nerfed in pvp. Melee users might as well be killing themselves reguardless of aps.

    Bramble doesn't reflect damage in open PvP. Only in PvP enabled instances and lolduels.
  • _Bloody_Fox_ - Lost City
    _Bloody_Fox_ - Lost City Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    OK pro PvPer, how come no one on LC is agreeing with you? First of all who said casters need to shard pdef? It's HP, unless you can reach over 9k, in which case you shard Jades, either of which provides protection against both types of damage anyway.

    At endgame, ornaments play a much bigger role toward defense than armor. Orns that give pdef are better than orns that give mdef (compare the 2 Cube necklaces) There are 2 party pdef buffs vs 1 party mdef buff. For some classes, they have 3 pdef buffs. Before you try to claim that not all casters have a 3rd pdef buff, I'd like to point out that not all physical classes have marrow either. I am well aware of how high a BM's mdef can reach with marrow, yet you seem to be completely ignorant of how high a wizard's pdef can reach.

    For any BM to be APS means he is forfeiting R9's set bonuses, which means that BM is now at least 50 attack levels and 10 def levels behind most high end casters. Now who's more vulnerable to who's type of damage?

    Theoretically, other classes, like barbs, archers, can reach 10k-11k mdef, while 10k pdef is not uncommon for fully buffed clerics as well. Archers for that matter will rarely reach 10k mdef because most archers don't wear mdef orns anyway. This is even assuming they are wearing +10 Rings of Eternal Solitude, which again, not many people actually wear.

    No one from lost city is even replying in this thread at all LOL.
    But I can guarantee base-wise, HA have more mag def than Arcanes have P def. It's just fact. I already made two characters on pwcalc to compare but I lost my internet so I am not doing it again lol. Tell me why tt90 HA gets 655 mag def and Aracne gets 171.... Anyways I gotta go to school and then to work but I am sure someone from lost city will agree eventually
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    _Bloody_Fox_ - Lost City wrote: »
    No one from lost city is even replying in this thread at all LOL.
    But I can guarantee base-wise, HA have more mag def than Arcanes have P def. It's just fact. I already made two characters on pwcalc to compare but I lost my internet so I am not doing it again lol. Tell me why tt90 HA gets 655 mag def and Aracne gets 171.... Anyways I gotta go to school and then to work but I am sure someone from lost city will agree eventually

    Nobody cares about unbuffed, do you fight unbuffed? Do you like to be one shot?
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • RoidAbuse - Sanctuary
    RoidAbuse - Sanctuary Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    _Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Carebear.

    ouch, that hurts!
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    Making "non-trash-talkers" show their true color. RAGE ON! b:laugh

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