APS Should Be Nerfed PVP Only

_Bloody_Fox_ - Lost City

Yes that is a reasonable nerf no?

SilverCleric - Lost City

_Bloody_Fox_ - Lost City wrote: »

Yes that is a reasonable nerf no?

Any idea on how that would work? b:question

SharkAngel - Heavens Tear

How would one nerf it in PvP without it having an effect on PvE?

SilverCleric - Lost City

SharkAngel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

How would one nerf it in PvP without it having an effect on PvE?

Well for PvE servers I would think if you go into PK mode your aps will automatically be nurfed to something like 2.22 or something... but that's just my idea... Its how it would be nurfed on PvP servers is what I'm wondering about.

gsuaver

I nerf my aps myself when I go to do some PvP. I swap out ornaments to cube neck/map 4 oht belt and I lose an interval bonus. Isn't that enough? :P

Jay_Dubbz - Lost City

No lol, aps in pve is what does damage to the game not pvp

RunningTiger - Dreamweaver

Are you crazy? Aps does nothing to pvp. Why in the world would you think it does?

Rank 9 assasin has barely any aps an he kicks but in pvp.

Rank 9 psy/wizard boht kick but in pvp without aps

Rank 9 archers barely rely on aps

So who do you think is relying on 5.0 or permaspark for pvp?
How does aps affect anything related to pvp?

HardToThink - Lost City

lol bm's without aps

LadyofReal - Heavens Tear

HardToThink - Lost City wrote: »

lol bm's without aps

That would require them to actually develop some skill since many I run into nowadays rely on APS and stun to kill someone.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

_Bloody_Fox_ - Lost City wrote: »

Yes that is a reasonable nerf no?

"APS Should Be Nerfed PVP Only"

id say its NOT reasonable considering the reason for even the THOUGHT of nerfing was not due to PVP but more leaning on PVE

_Bloody_Fox_ - Lost City

I dunno about you guys but a 5.0 aps bm kills me in seconds. stun > APS frenzy. NO way to survive as a cleric. Even if I had +12

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

_Bloody_Fox_ - Lost City wrote: »

I dunno about you guys but a 5.0 aps bm kills me in seconds. stun > APS frenzy. NO way to survive as a cleric. Even if I had +12

id roll another 5.0BM/sin if i had money to get a +12

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Jay_Dubbz - Lost City wrote: »

No lol, aps in pve is what does damage to the game not pvp

This.

I'm not saying that APS isn't prominent in PVP and that it should be nerfed, but it pales in comparison to the PVE effects. If we capped APS at 2.5, both problems would be solved.

Nniotora - Lost City

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This.

I'm not saying that APS isn't prominent in PVP and that it should be nerfed, but it pales in comparison to the PVE effects. If we capped APS at 2.5, both problems would be solved.

b:nosebleed plz cap at 2.5 max int with blade i would even consider going aps b:shocked

/polIo - Sanctuary60

LadyofReal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That would require them to actually develop some skill since many I run into nowadays rely on APS and stun to kill someone.

You mean before aps was even thought of? When someone would come across a fist bm and LOL at the idea of it?

When axes and poleblades ruled the BM world, and how much skill you had using those weapons determined your level of pro-ness?

Yeah...unheard of nowadays

Allisandre - Sanctuary

If they just made Bramble work in PvP that would solve a lot of it. Then the APS'ers would just kill themselves. b:chuckle

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

APS should be nerfed in global. Not just PVP in PVE also. It broke all game balance forever. It made some classes absolutely useless. Then BP should be available just for sins not for melee classes, etc.

Quilue - Sanctuary

_Bloody_Fox_ - Lost City wrote: »

I dunno about you guys but a 5.0 aps bm kills me in seconds. stun > APS frenzy. NO way to survive as a cleric. Even if I had +12

Link us your gear and the BM's gears. If you were +12 you'd 1 shot the BM, especially a max aps BM with **** defense.

LoraTab - Dreamweaver

you guys are so weird, who the heck dies from bms. Any +12 psy wiz veno rank 9 archer etc should have no problem pawning a bm regardless of aps.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

The real problem are sins who can stun for 8 seconds from stealth and windshield -> 5aps auto attack. Whoever says aps is worthless in pvp is dumb.

_Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

The real problem are sins who can stun for 8 seconds from stealth and windshield -> 5aps auto attack. Whoever says aps is worthless in pvp is dumb.

I KNOW!!!!!!!! Ugh so bad on LC. Sins everywhere doing that ****. It should just be capped at 2.5...

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

The real problem are sins who can stun for 8 seconds from stealth and windshield -> 5aps auto attack. Whoever says aps is worthless in pvp is dumb.

Its effects are more profound in PVE, but this is true as well. I've certainly been on the receiving end of this in cube (as I'm sure many others have). The saddest part about it is, even if I did feel like retaliating (which I usually don't, as I don't feel like giving them the pleasure), there is never any opportunity to do so. In theory all I could do is try to break the stun with a genie skill, by which time I'd still be dead anyway. >_>

Frankly, this is also a counterpoint to the whole "skill > gear" argument in PVP. I'd like to believe that, but as long as 5aps is around, it's not gonna be true.

HardToThink - Lost City

Well atleast I could afk 1vs1'ing a bm to answer my phone or make a snack.

(nerf aps!)

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

With BMs 5aps isn't nearly as bad of an issue. They have low crit, no zerk, no wolf emblem, low damage weapons, nad no R9. Sins is where it's ridiculous. I've seen a full JoSD R9+12 barb fall in a couple seconds to a sin's auto attack.

ZoracGallant - Raging Tide

_Bloody_Fox_ - Lost City wrote: »

I dunno about you guys but a 5.0 aps bm kills me in seconds. stun > APS frenzy. NO way to survive as a cleric. Even if I had +12

Umm you know what a genie is right? AD or Expel or a half dozen other skills. And A BM killing you? Is it a stealth BM? Sleep his *** and then show him your cool flashy skills. BMs are easy. Archers and Psys are the only thing I worry about on my cleric.

Hexalot - Dreamweaver

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

The real problem are sins who can stun for 8 seconds from stealth and windshield -> 5aps auto attack. Whoever says aps is worthless in pvp is dumb.

It isn't the aps thats so deadly here... its the stealth. An R9 Sin can come out of stealth with a mere 2.5 aps and still 2 shot you.

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

With BMs 5aps isn't nearly as bad of an issue. They have low crit, no zerk, no wolf emblem, low damage weapons, nad no R9. Sins is where it's ridiculous. I've seen a full JoSD R9+12 barb fall in a couple seconds to a sin's auto attack.

BMs with 5 aps isn't nearly as bad an issue because everyone can see them coming, full stop. There are plenty of poorly refined Sins out there who still own in PvP simply because they dictate when the fight starts and when it ends (shadow escape). Take away stealth from sins... and except for maybe the Godly geared R9 ones... their aps wouldn't be much of an issue either.

P.S. what... that R9 Barb just decided to sit there and tank the Sin ?

No genie skill, apoth, nothing ?

HardToThink - Lost City

In fact I'm 1vs1ing and axe bm right now, I went afk for a little but that's okay I'll finish this post get a glass of orange juice and kill him in a sec =x

ZoracGallant - Raging Tide

HardToThink - Lost City wrote: »

In fact I'm 1vs1ing and axe bm right now, I went afk for a little but that's okay I'll finish this post get a glass of orange juice and kill him in a sec =x

b:laugh watch out someone might come gank you both.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

With BMs 5aps isn't nearly as bad of an issue. They have low crit, no zerk, no wolf emblem, low damage weapons, nad no R9. Sins is where it's ridiculous. I've seen a full JoSD R9+12 barb fall in a couple seconds to a sin's auto attack.

I'm not sure if I could really agree with you that BMs have "low damage weapons." Yeah, fist damage is somewhat lower than dagger damage, but not by much (nirv claw and nirv dagger, both with -int, the attack difference is only about 75).

As has already been said, the issue in PVP is stealth... but removing stealth entirely would be counterproductive as it would remove half of the identify of the class. Rather, I would say " prohibit sins from attacking while stealthed." That would force a sin to exit stealth before attacking anyone, giving their would-be victim at least a two-second heads-up to prepare a stun/seal/etc., as they could with any other attacker.

Even that wouldn't fix the problem with APS, but it's a separate problem that still should be addressed.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm not sure if I could really agree with you that BMs have "low damage weapons." Yeah, fist damage is somewhat lower than dagger damage, but not by much (nirv claw and nirv dagger, both with -int, the attack difference is only about 75).

As has already been said, the issue in PVP is stealth... but removing stealth entirely would be counterproductive as it would remove half of the identify of the class. Rather, I would say " prohibit sins from attacking while stealthed." That would force a sin to exit stealth before attacking anyone, giving their would-be victim at least a two-second heads-up to prepare a stun/seal/etc., as they could with any other attacker.

Even that wouldn't fix the problem with APS, but it's a separate problem that still should be addressed.

Ehh 75 more damage is still an extra garnet gem. BMs have to have 200 dex for fist while sin only has to use 100 str for LA so that gives sins a lot higher base damage.

Even without stealth sins have 35m teleport teleport stun (5 seconds) which gives them one of the longest ranges in the game so you can't kite them. Really though sin skills are a separate issue.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ehh 75 more damage is still an extra garnet gem. BMs have to have 200 dex for fist while sin only has to use 100 str for LA so that gives sins a lot higher base damage.

Even without stealth sins have 35m teleport teleport stun (5 seconds) which gives them one of the longest ranges in the game so you can't kite them. Really though sin skills are a separate issue.

Agreed... so then, the question was "is APS still a problem if you're only talking about BMs?"

And for that I return to my original argument, that being that it's a far worse problem in PVE than it is in PVP. I would still argue that it's significant in PVP though, since once that BM gets to you you're pretty much toast, whereas without APS, a person in a BM's melee range still has a few options.

Obviously if you're a caster or an archer, any anti-BM tactic will involve keeping them at bay for as long as possible... but let us not forget that he could be packing anti-stun apocs (or indeed, his own anti-stun + speed skill). So from there it becomes a kiting contest, I guess... and casters don't generally have any speed skills, so once you've both blown your genie energy on HP, the BM still catches up to you.

I don't PVP much but that situation is just what comes to mind. :P