Let's talk about APS

Kyrian_Wolfe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So what does everyone think about the APS system?
1. Should the APS system be nerfed?
2. Should sins have an easier (but weaker) 5.0 to help them reach 5.0?
3. Insert comments here.
4. Discuss.

My answers/comments:

1. No it should not. Most high level aps players would quit and PWE would lose over half of the players they have now.
2. I think it would be a good idea but implementation would be interesting.
3. APS allows players to get things done in a reasonable amount of time, especially if they only have an hour or two of time per day to play this game.

I want mah herc to be 5.0 APS pleaseb:pleased

should leave aps the same, but give the original 3 races upgrades to have the option to be on par with 5 aps in pve and pvp so it's not so one sided.

The problems with the current APS system:

1) It looks ridiculous, show a friend who hasn't seen PWI what 5.0 looks like and they'll tell you how **** it is to have a character twitching around like they have some kind of disease.

2) It simplifies gameplay down to idiot levels. Just casting demon spark over and over gets old. You don't need any other skill. I've never even seen a BM cast any of the fist skills they claim to have but the occasional cyclone heel.

3) It removes the viability of other builds. Have you ever seen a sin who stacks crit or uses insanely high OHT dex gear? No all sins have tt99 boots and wrists. All have R8 top and tt99 ornaments. These are boring cookie-cutter builds that everyone shares. There is nothing interesting about people's gear choices. There is no more choice.

4) It disproportionately favors faster weapons. Weapon base attack speeds and refinement levels were tuned to keep weapons at roughly the same DPS at base attack interval. This fine tuning is broken when daggers are speed up by 400% by the same gear that speeds up an axe by 50%. If the speed up was percentage base (similar to channeling) across the board for all weapons then barbs would still be using their axes.


TL DR; Basically this poorly designed mechanic turns the game into a 5.0 twitching pile of ****.

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

The problems with the current APS system:

1) It looks ridiculous, show a friend who hasn't seen PWI what 5.0 looks like and they'll tell you how **** it is to have a character twitching around like they have some kind of disease.

2) It simplifies gameplay down to idiot levels. Just casting demon spark over and over gets old. You don't need any other skill. I've never even seen a BM cast any of the fist skills they claim to have but the occasional cyclone heel.

3) It removes the viability of other builds. Have you ever seen a sin who stacks crit or uses insanely high OHT dex gear? No all sins have tt99 boots and wrists. All have R8 top and tt99 ornaments. These are boring cookie-cutter builds that everyone shares. There is nothing interesting about people's gear choices. There is no more choice.

4) It disproportionately favors faster weapons. Weapon base attack speeds and refinement levels were tuned to keep weapons at roughly the same DPS at base attack interval. This fine tuning is broken when daggers are speed up by 400% by the same gear that speeds up an axe by 50%. If the speed up was percentage base (similar to channeling) across the board for all weapons then barbs would still be using their axes.


TL DR; Basically this poorly designed mechanic turns the game into a 5.0 twitching pile of ****.

b:laughb:laughb:laugh

Lenestro - Sanctuary wrote: »

yes. ive never seen a game where only a few classes are good for PvE.

well pretty much its only 1 race which is sin. bms are usefull for HF but your better of making a sin.

imo aps and sins should be nerfed. otherwise you might aswell remove the other races to make sure beginners dont chose a race they might know from other games ( tanker, healer, archer, wizzard.. )and then notice that the ugly fish would have been the best decicion and either quit or start again,

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

The problems with the current APS system:

1) It looks ridiculous, show a friend who hasn't seen PWI what 5.0 looks like and they'll tell you how **** it is to have a character twitching around like they have some kind of disease.


Agreed

2) It simplifies gameplay down to idiot levels. Just casting demon spark over and over gets old. You don't need any other skill. I've never even seen a BM cast any of the fist skills they claim to have but the occasional cyclone heel.

I do more then that O.o. Even if it's not awesome damage, I do use demon shadowless kick to cancel mobs, demon draw blood for "some" bleed, demon aoelien blade for a chance to stun (except bosses), of course I use heel too. I also use a lot my axes skills, and sometimes the sword and spear ultimate..

3) It removes the viability of other builds. Have you ever seen a sin who stacks crit or uses insanely high OHT dex gear? No all sins have tt99 boots and wrists. All have R8 top and tt99 ornaments. These are boring cookie-cutter builds that everyone shares. There is nothing interesting about people's gear choices. There is no more choice.

True to most of that. I try to stay different though and it keeps me out of some dungeons. I prefer though to be a tad different and "customized" and use more moves then become a APS twitching machine.

4) It disproportionately favors faster weapons. Weapon base attack speeds and refinement levels were tuned to keep weapons at roughly the same DPS at base attack interval. This fine tuning is broken when daggers are speed up by 400% by the same gear that speeds up an axe by 50%. If the speed up was percentage base (similar to channeling) across the board for all weapons then barbs would still be using their axes.

Again, totally true. Although seeing someone reach 5 aps with a tt99 ax would be pretty scary..b:shocked


TL DR; Basically this poorly designed mechanic turns the game into a 5.0 twitching pile of ****.

Yup, and makes those who are not, become ignore and left aside..

Answers in Turquoise...

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

The problems with the current APS system:

1) It looks ridiculous, show a friend who hasn't seen PWI what 5.0 looks like and they'll tell you how **** it is to have a character twitching around like they have some kind of disease.

2) It simplifies gameplay down to idiot levels. Just casting demon spark over and over gets old. You don't need any other skill. I've never even seen a BM cast any of the fist skills they claim to have but the occasional cyclone heel.

3) It removes the viability of other builds. Have you ever seen a sin who stacks crit or uses insanely high OHT dex gear? No all sins have tt99 boots and wrists. All have R8 top and tt99 ornaments. These are boring cookie-cutter builds that everyone shares. There is nothing interesting about people's gear choices. There is no more choice.

4) It disproportionately favors faster weapons. Weapon base attack speeds and refinement levels were tuned to keep weapons at roughly the same DPS at base attack interval. This fine tuning is broken when daggers are speed up by 400% by the same gear that speeds up an axe by 50%. If the speed up was percentage base (similar to channeling) across the board for all weapons then barbs would still be using their axes.


TL DR; Basically this poorly designed mechanic turns the game into a 5.0 twitching pile of ****.

Just watched a vid of a BM with 5APS. Your right. He was all twitchy, like he was stroking out.

From now on I will refer to 5APS as twitchys

aps should be capped, or give the actuall interval the gear peace says

if it says 0.10 interval, then give the peace o.10 interval,

for instance, from 1.44 APS to 1.60 if i remember correctly, is 0.10 interval wich doesent make sence

should be 1.54

same goes from 4.00 to 5.00

a mere 0.05 boosts a 4.00 to 5.00, while it should be 4.05

thats my thought on how APS SHOULD be

QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

5aps bm 7k hp (unbuffed)...better then alot of bm's i've ...even switching out my crummy evasion adorns (used for aps)to elemental deff adorns... is it fair a r8 wizz cleric psy pretty much any caster class can 2 shot me fully buffed using alter marrow?

aps is better for pve .... axes caster classes are better for pvp....different builds ment for different things

quit QQ'n b/c some classes/builds can solo or do things better then you...you dont like the way we do things? dont like that i can solo most instances wit blood pain? then gtfo.....dont squad me, blacklist me, couldnt care less

should aps be changed? no...aps makes some classes/builds better for pve...and the other classes/builds have pvp

altho ill give fishies the exceptions...with thier skills stealth, sleep, stun they can pretty much dominate both pvp an pve.....fishies b:angry

oh wow this thread again....if only i had a dime for each time this popped up i would be able to CS my whole faction r9.

Personally, if you just limited BM's to HA and locked fist/claw to the BM class, wouldn't that take care of most of it?

Allisandre - Sanctuary wrote: »

Personally, if you just limited BM's to HA and locked fist/claw to the BM class, wouldn't that take care of most of it?

As I think I pointed out to you in another thread... BMs can still get 5 aps with full HA. Using LA gear is just the cheapest route to 5 aps.

s0 why are pe0ple making APS QQ threads that within the first page always turn int0 a QQ sins thread????

You're all forgetting one thing.

The APS itself isn't that huge of a deal.... it's the permaspark that results from higher APS that's a problem. If it were just the APS, a 2.22-2.86 sin wouldn't be able to compete with a 5.0 anything else. However since sins can permaspark that early... well... you can see that caping APS would simply give them a bigger advantage over other classes in comparison to doing something about permaspark or changing how the -int system works, which would massively hinder the viability of high APS builds.

truekossy wrote: »

You're all forgetting one thing.

The APS itself isn't that huge of a deal.... it's the permaspark that results from higher APS that's a problem. If it were just the APS, a 2.22-2.86 sin wouldn't be able to compete with a 5.0 anything else. However since sins can permaspark that early... well... you can see that caping APS would simply give them a bigger advantage over other classes in comparison to doing something about permaspark or changing how the -int system works, which would massively hinder the viability of high APS builds.

Changing the -int calculation would certainly fix it, but I wouldn't trust our current devs to do that kind of an overhaul. >_> I think asking them to change one number somewhere in the code is about as much as we can expect of them. XD

And yeah sins can "permaspark" anyway, but I guess it depends on your definition of permaspark. My own sin is 90, is demon, and has no int gear whatsoever... and if the situation requires it (such as on the mob in room 6 of cube) he can spark, DD until spark runs out, and bridge the gap with various chi skills. To me, that's permaspark. Anything else is overkill (and arguably, even that might be overkill).

I'm not saying that we shouldn't nerf permaspark - I'm certainly in support of that rumored change - but the cap is still the bigger problem.