APS Should Be Nerfed PVP Only
_Bloody_Fox_ - Lost City
Posts: 224 Arc User
Yes that is a reasonable nerf no?
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Post edited by _Bloody_Fox_ - Lost City on
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_Bloody_Fox_ - Lost City wrote: »Yes that is a reasonable nerf no?
Any idea on how that would work? b:question[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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How would one nerf it in PvP without it having an effect on PvE?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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SharkAngel - Heavens Tear wrote: »How would one nerf it in PvP without it having an effect on PvE?
Well for PvE servers I would think if you go into PK mode your aps will automatically be nurfed to something like 2.22 or something... but that's just my idea... Its how it would be nurfed on PvP servers is what I'm wondering about.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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I nerf my aps myself when I go to do some PvP. I swap out ornaments to cube neck/map 4 oht belt and I lose an interval bonus. Isn't that enough? :P0
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No lol, aps in pve is what does damage to the game not pvp0
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Are you crazy? Aps does nothing to pvp. Why in the world would you think it does?
Rank 9 assasin has barely any aps an he kicks but in pvp.
Rank 9 psy/wizard boht kick but in pvp without aps
Rank 9 archers barely rely on aps
So who do you think is relying on 5.0 or permaspark for pvp?
How does aps affect anything related to pvp?0 -
lol bm's without apsSiggy from bellefleurs.
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HardToThink - Lost City wrote: »lol bm's without aps
That would require them to actually develop some skill since many I run into nowadays rely on APS and stun to kill someone.Not motivated enough to make another PWI siggy0 -
id say its NOT reasonable considering the reason for even the THOUGHT of nerfing was not due to PVP but more leaning on PVE_Bloody_Fox_ - Lost City wrote: »Yes that is a reasonable nerf no?
"APS Should Be Nerfed PVP Only"[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
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I dunno about you guys but a 5.0 aps bm kills me in seconds. stun > APS frenzy. NO way to survive as a cleric. Even if I had +12[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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id roll another 5.0BM/sin if i had money to get a +12_Bloody_Fox_ - Lost City wrote: »I dunno about you guys but a 5.0 aps bm kills me in seconds. stun > APS frenzy. NO way to survive as a cleric. Even if I had +12
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★"New weekly quests! "Discover the bug in the patch""-Nihillae★"My father would beat me if he found out I was QQing over a virtual pony."-Neurosis★"You're amongst the biggest blobs of fail I've ever seen in my life."-Ninnuam★"A statistic said 3% people of the world get enjoyment primarily from making people upset, and you are trying to discriminate them"-ilystah★["How To Tank Rebirth Order Delta (86+)"-Stickygreen Barb (1)restat. you want full magic, Arcane armour build (2)when mobs come /faceroll on your keyboard and you will one shot all the mobs (3)rinse and repeat]★"I've been spammed with 3 poops for 2 hours."-ColdSteele★"If someone fights learning, I don't bother with them outside of amusement factor."-Telarith★"This thread is a joke right? Please say yes."-eatwithspoons★ "This is why you don't post your opinions on the internet, most of the replies you get will be from people who missed a hug or two sometime in their youth."-Alacol★"Sexy! A post with a Binomial Distribution."-Asterelle★"It's about time PW starts to separate out the noob Sins from the rest."-salvati0n★"Shoo troll >:O"-TheDan0 -
This.Jay_Dubbz - Lost City wrote: »No lol, aps in pve is what does damage to the game not pvp
I'm not saying that APS isn't prominent in PVP and that it should be nerfed, but it pales in comparison to the PVE effects. If we capped APS at 2.5, both problems would be solved.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »This.
I'm not saying that APS isn't prominent in PVP and that it should be nerfed, but it pales in comparison to the PVE effects. If we capped APS at 2.5, both problems would be solved.
b:nosebleed plz cap at 2.5 max int with blade i would even consider going aps b:shocked100% F2P legit 105 since starting this game. Full rank9 jaded +12 seeker. .tinyurl.com/nocashshopHaters gona hate cuz they cant play a game0 -
LadyofReal - Heavens Tear wrote: »That would require them to actually develop some skill since many I run into nowadays rely on APS and stun to kill someone.
You mean before aps was even thought of? When someone would come across a fist bm and LOL at the idea of it?
When axes and poleblades ruled the BM world, and how much skill you had using those weapons determined your level of pro-ness?
Yeah...unheard of nowadays
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If they just made Bramble work in PvP that would solve a lot of it. Then the APS'ers would just kill themselves. b:chuckleTake the time to look for your answer before you post like an idiot.
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APS should be nerfed in global. Not just PVP in PVE also. It broke all game balance forever. It made some classes absolutely useless. Then BP should be available just for sins not for melee classes, etc.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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_Bloody_Fox_ - Lost City wrote: »I dunno about you guys but a 5.0 aps bm kills me in seconds. stun > APS frenzy. NO way to survive as a cleric. Even if I had +12
Link us your gear and the BM's gears. If you were +12 you'd 1 shot the BM, especially a max aps BM with **** defense.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
you guys are so weird, who the heck dies from bms. Any +12 psy wiz veno rank 9 archer etc should have no problem pawning a bm regardless of aps.0
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The real problem are sins who can stun for 8 seconds from stealth and windshield -> 5aps auto attack. Whoever says aps is worthless in pvp is dumb.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »The real problem are sins who can stun for 8 seconds from stealth and windshield -> 5aps auto attack. Whoever says aps is worthless in pvp is dumb.
I KNOW!!!!!!!! Ugh so bad on LC. Sins everywhere doing that ****. It should just be capped at 2.5...Facebook.com/foxi187
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Its effects are more profound in PVE, but this is true as well. I've certainly been on the receiving end of this in cube (as I'm sure many others have). The saddest part about it is, even if I did feel like retaliating (which I usually don't, as I don't feel like giving them the pleasure), there is never any opportunity to do so. In theory all I could do is try to break the stun with a genie skill, by which time I'd still be dead anyway. >_>Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »The real problem are sins who can stun for 8 seconds from stealth and windshield -> 5aps auto attack. Whoever says aps is worthless in pvp is dumb.
Frankly, this is also a counterpoint to the whole "skill > gear" argument in PVP. I'd like to believe that, but as long as 5aps is around, it's not gonna be true.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Well atleast I could afk 1vs1'ing a bm to answer my phone or make a snack.
(nerf aps!)Siggy from bellefleurs.
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With BMs 5aps isn't nearly as bad of an issue. They have low crit, no zerk, no wolf emblem, low damage weapons, nad no R9. Sins is where it's ridiculous. I've seen a full JoSD R9+12 barb fall in a couple seconds to a sin's auto attack.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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_Bloody_Fox_ - Lost City wrote: »I dunno about you guys but a 5.0 aps bm kills me in seconds. stun > APS frenzy. NO way to survive as a cleric. Even if I had +12
Umm you know what a genie is right? AD or Expel or a half dozen other skills. And A BM killing you? Is it a stealth BM? Sleep his *** and then show him your cool flashy skills. BMs are easy. Archers and Psys are the only thing I worry about on my cleric.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »The real problem are sins who can stun for 8 seconds from stealth and windshield -> 5aps auto attack. Whoever says aps is worthless in pvp is dumb.
It isn't the aps thats so deadly here... its the stealth. An R9 Sin can come out of stealth with a mere 2.5 aps and still 2 shot you.Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »With BMs 5aps isn't nearly as bad of an issue. They have low crit, no zerk, no wolf emblem, low damage weapons, nad no R9. Sins is where it's ridiculous. I've seen a full JoSD R9+12 barb fall in a couple seconds to a sin's auto attack.
BMs with 5 aps isn't nearly as bad an issue because everyone can see them coming, full stop. There are plenty of poorly refined Sins out there who still own in PvP simply because they dictate when the fight starts and when it ends (shadow escape). Take away stealth from sins... and except for maybe the Godly geared R9 ones... their aps wouldn't be much of an issue either.
P.S. what... that R9 Barb just decided to sit there and tank the Sin ?
No genie skill, apoth, nothing ?0 -
In fact I'm 1vs1ing and axe bm right now, I went afk for a little but that's okay I'll finish this post get a glass of orange juice and kill him in a sec =xSiggy from bellefleurs.
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HardToThink - Lost City wrote: »In fact I'm 1vs1ing and axe bm right now, I went afk for a little but that's okay I'll finish this post get a glass of orange juice and kill him in a sec =x
b:laugh watch out someone might come gank you both.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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I'm not sure if I could really agree with you that BMs have "low damage weapons." Yeah, fist damage is somewhat lower than dagger damage, but not by much (nirv claw and nirv dagger, both with -int, the attack difference is only about 75).Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »With BMs 5aps isn't nearly as bad of an issue. They have low crit, no zerk, no wolf emblem, low damage weapons, nad no R9. Sins is where it's ridiculous. I've seen a full JoSD R9+12 barb fall in a couple seconds to a sin's auto attack.
As has already been said, the issue in PVP is stealth... but removing stealth entirely would be counterproductive as it would remove half of the identify of the class. Rather, I would say " prohibit sins from attacking while stealthed." That would force a sin to exit stealth before attacking anyone, giving their would-be victim at least a two-second heads-up to prepare a stun/seal/etc., as they could with any other attacker.
Even that wouldn't fix the problem with APS, but it's a separate problem that still should be addressed.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'm not sure if I could really agree with you that BMs have "low damage weapons." Yeah, fist damage is somewhat lower than dagger damage, but not by much (nirv claw and nirv dagger, both with -int, the attack difference is only about 75).
As has already been said, the issue in PVP is stealth... but removing stealth entirely would be counterproductive as it would remove half of the identify of the class. Rather, I would say " prohibit sins from attacking while stealthed." That would force a sin to exit stealth before attacking anyone, giving their would-be victim at least a two-second heads-up to prepare a stun/seal/etc., as they could with any other attacker.
Even that wouldn't fix the problem with APS, but it's a separate problem that still should be addressed.
Ehh 75 more damage is still an extra garnet gem. BMs have to have 200 dex for fist while sin only has to use 100 str for LA so that gives sins a lot higher base damage.
Even without stealth sins have 35m teleport teleport stun (5 seconds) which gives them one of the longest ranges in the game so you can't kite them. Really though sin skills are a separate issue.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Agreed... so then, the question was "is APS still a problem if you're only talking about BMs?"Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »Ehh 75 more damage is still an extra garnet gem. BMs have to have 200 dex for fist while sin only has to use 100 str for LA so that gives sins a lot higher base damage.
Even without stealth sins have 35m teleport teleport stun (5 seconds) which gives them one of the longest ranges in the game so you can't kite them. Really though sin skills are a separate issue.
And for that I return to my original argument, that being that it's a far worse problem in PVE than it is in PVP. I would still argue that it's significant in PVP though, since once that BM gets to you you're pretty much toast, whereas without APS, a person in a BM's melee range still has a few options.
Obviously if you're a caster or an archer, any anti-BM tactic will involve keeping them at bay for as long as possible... but let us not forget that he could be packing anti-stun apocs (or indeed, his own anti-stun + speed skill). So from there it becomes a kiting contest, I guess... and casters don't generally have any speed skills, so once you've both blown your genie energy on HP, the BM still catches up to you.
I don't PVP much but that situation is just what comes to mind. :P[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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