Why are archers so Fail?
tormensoth
Posts: 13 Arc User
Ive been a player here for 2 years now, and after thousands of deaths to the hands of monsters way below my level, I figure the only thing I can do is complain. But Archers just plain suck inside just about every dungeon in the game. Ive watched just about every other class, with half the gear and refines, grace through this game with ease. I just dont understand it. Ive paid hundreds of dollars over the years building my armor and weapons and yet it still seams even with a +5 tt99 weapon, and tt99 armor, I still get owned by just about everything. Is it my play? or are Archers just that weak? Ive followed behind sins who can just gallop through these things, no cleric, just owning everything in their path, and it seams archers are just here so the clerics have someone to rez. I tried a low level tt solo mode being the last days of 2x drops were at hand just to see if anything has changed, but it appears it has just gotten worse. All the Platnum charms and crab meat wont keep you alive long enough to put a dent in anything. I can say without a doubt that the Crazy stone and world quests were made just for us archers. Is there a lvl 100 archer out there who can say otherwise, if so, I would love a reason to continue.
Thank you and Good Hunting
Thank you and Good Hunting
Post edited by tormensoth on
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Comments
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Yes, we can say otherwise.0
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I made an archer once, didn't like playing it so it sits pretty much unused as a bank for me. But I do know several 100+ archers that have no problem soloing TT (and not solo mode which any class can solo). Archers do have a draw back in the meele department if you go aps and use claws, which is no BP, but that's really the only difference and with a cleric it shouldn't make a difference (unless the cleric doesn't like you and never heals you which is why you die).
I would recomend finding a high lvl op archer on your server and make friends with him. See what he/she does to kickass and stay alive.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Archer aren't made to be able to simply walk through instances like assassins as assassins aren't made to be able to attack at 30+ meters.
Each class holds its advantages and disadvantages in various aspects of the game.0 -
I recently did the rebuild of my archer to fist, im using 2 socket GV at +6, lunar aps cape, ashura armor besides the pants which im guess i go with the nirvy, chest i just swapped for rank 6 for int as well. i can aps at 2.5 currently, so im at around 150 mil in gear and yes I was talking about Solo Mode TT3-1. Maybe im just not eating enough crab meat fast enough or my gameplay is that bad, who knows *shrugs*0
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Lucretius - Dreamweaver wrote: »Archer aren't made to be able to simply walk through instances like assassins as assassins aren't made to be able to attack at 30+ meters.
Each class holds its advantages and disadvantages in various aspects of the game.
sorry you are wrong. sins are op and 30m range is no problem, they just tele there and stun you (just in case they get are not in stealth, otherwise you will hardly know what hit you...)
i have an archer level 100 and i have to admit that i dont enjoy playing it. sins are just better in ANY situation, and because archers suffer a damage reduction when in close combat you are only good against mages, but not comparable to sins... (not complaining about sins anymore, i made one myself now and use the aps gear of my archer).
if there were no sins, archer would definately be my favourite class. they have the easiest/cheapest access to 5 aps and with blazing arrow+a high crit rate they are pretty even with a BM when it comes to melee damage, but you also got great long range AOEs (sharpened tooth for example or barrage of arrows) and pretty good single target debuffs.0 -
tormensoth wrote: »Ive paid hundreds of dollars over the years building my armor and weapons and yet it still seams even with a +5 tt99 weapon, and tt99 armor, I still get owned by just about everything. Is it my play? or are Archers just that weak?
You can spend your life savings on this game and still suck at it. A thick wallet does not equal skill.0 -
Archers fail? you've been here for two years and ask such a question? archers are not a class made for soloing dungeons, and to compere it to a sin is ridiculous. the archer class has and always will be a class that needs a party in intances just like most of the other classes. archers don't suck, it's just that they get over shadowed by the OPness of sins and the other new races.0
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Queelen - Sanctuary wrote: »You can spend your life savings on this game and still suck at it. A thick wallet does not equal skill.
Are we playing the same game? Not much skill needed, it's all about gear.0 -
Thanks for the useful link, I think its says it best here
Level 95-99: Archers suck at endgame! I need +8 in all my equips so I can last long enough to run away! Wah!!!0 -
This.Outlaw_Arch - Heavens Tear wrote: »archers don't suck, it's just that they get over shadowed by the OPness of sins and the other new races.
I would argue that you should never have any business soloing any kind of endgame instance. The whole point of a cooperative game is to find some friends, find some faction members, find some randoms even... and do runs with them. People are spoiled by the power of the sin class because they, sadly, have the ability to solo instances very quickly depending on their gear breakdowns. That doesn't make archers bad, it just makes sins broken. >_>
You asked for Lv100 archers - well, I'm one, and I don't even have TT99 gears like you do. And I still get by just fine... I survive instances with a squad, I fill the role given to archers (primarily DD, secondarily support/stuns/debuffs), and frankly you can't ask for much else. YOU are the baseline, not them.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
Archers are fail bc whenever their squad reaches a boss within a dungeon, they alt tab to watch youtube or troll the PWI forums.
Otherwise, it is a fairly cost effective class and a lot of fun to play.0 -
Maybe your just a fail archer. When i had +5 gears i cud solo hh learn how to use your skills and stay alive.0
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tatakairyu wrote: »Are we playing the same game? Not much skill needed, it's all about gear.
You can buy levels, reputation, all the gear and refine them to +12, it won't change the fact that you know chickensh*t about the game or your own class. To a certain extent yes, money makes you superior. But posts like the topic opener one or first time squads can reveal fast enough who has any idea about what they're doing.
For example Archers are harder to play then let's say Seekers but when you say that you constantly die and get killed by mobs way below your level, no matter what class are we talking about, then it's not the game that should be blamed because how come the other same class players do fine? They all cash shop? Hax? C'mon.0 -
tormensoth wrote: »Thanks for the useful link, I think its says it best here
Level 95-99: Archers suck at endgame! I need +8 in all my equips so I can last long enough to run away! Wah!!!
My signature worked!0 -
tatakairyu wrote: »Are we playing the same game? Not much skill needed, it's all about gear.
lol just because you have gear doesn't mean you are gonna be awesome. It still takes skill to play. I have watched a r8 barb destroy a r9 barb becuase the r9 just csed everything and didn't know what to do. So yeah it does take skill. Now if your a sin then yeah that really takes no skill to play that class at all.All generalizations are false, including this one.0 -
i personally been around from early 2009. i'm fairly sure the amount of times i died was far less than 50, and honestly, to die as an archer more than 30 times is something of an embarrassment to me (not counting PVP).
as for skill for this game, i think the game requires hardly any skill what so ever. all it needs is a basic understanding of the mechanics knowing your skills. honestly, how much skill does it require to know how to play this game? it's not like there's action based combat where you can dodge and move around in combat, THOSE games require skill, here? you click a target and use the skills as needed. and a wee bit of common sense as well.
people seem to confuse knowledge with skill in this game.lol just because you have gear doesn't mean you are gonna be awesome. It still takes skill to play. I have watched a r8 barb destroy a r9 barb becuase the r9 just csed everything and didn't know what to do. So yeah it does take skill. Now if your a sin then yeah that really takes no skill to play that class at all.
this just proves my point.0 -
You're looking at it from a PVP perspective. In PVP, skill does make a difference, but not to the extent that some people make it out to be. If that r9 barb is going to just sit there auto-attacking or spamming one or two skills, then yeah he's going to die. But assuming both participants in PVP are at least somewhat skilled, it's going to come down to gear (especially when r9 is involved).Aquireis - Lost City wrote: »lol just because you have gear doesn't mean you are gonna be awesome. It still takes skill to play. I have watched a r8 barb destroy a r9 barb becuase the r9 just csed everything and didn't know what to do. So yeah it does take skill. Now if your a sin then yeah that really takes no skill to play that class at all.
PVE by contrast is a realm where you don't need gear to do well. Yes, you're going to see a spike in damage output, etc., if you went r8 or r9, but even without those things, the ability to play one's role comes almost entirely from skill.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
Yeah, everytime I had an archer pew-pewing me to death in TW I just grumbled to myself about how much that class sucked.0
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Queelen - Sanctuary wrote: »You can spend your life savings on this game and still suck at it. A thick wallet does not equal skill.
+1 to this.
To whoever says no skill is ever required to play has a sin and can just auto-attack eveything.
Weird, if training and skills do absolutly nothing, why do people come at me to know if I want to Warsong, tank their bh, go delta.
Yo, i'm 2.22 aps not sparked, I have 7k hp and nothing refined over +3, (except deicides), not even full tt99 yet and I get invited everywhere (except very rarely to Nirvy), Same happens on my barb, people love to call me up to go help them. Guess that some, like Queelen still see that someone that knows how to play their char and how to react quick to almost any situation > having put 2000$ + in game and saying "i'm pro i can auto-atk and drop bosses in 2 hits" Well good for them, they make the game free to me and a lot of players who spend a lot less and they also get bored much faster then me cause they don't ENJOY the game. It's rush point A to B = money = "fun"
Back on topic :
As for archers beeing failed. I have ran with a lot of archers and just liek any other classes, they have their strenght and weaknesses (sins weaknesses are just more hidden it seems). What I don't like though about them, is those going fists. The "main" job of a archer is to have HIGH dex, so their LONG range attacks are more potent and they have the high evasion they were meant to have. Wearing fists is , to me, plainly stupid. Fists uses STRENGTH to do more damage and I don't know a archer that has anything near 300.
It's the same with barbs that go fists, it "might" work if u have a lot of money to invest , but they take out from their MAIN stat, VITALITY, to do so.
Archers were made to stay far and pew pew, with high damage/high evasion and high crit rate and stay safe. (They can even puchback a melee mob coming too close)
When people will understand that, they will see how good they can be.Proud supporter of the new expansion. Sure it has it's share of bugs, like any games. But for a pure farmer/grinder, that's a whole lot of new mobs to go beat up b:chuckle0 -
Archer is an easy class to learn. You point and shoot. However it is a hard class to be GOOD at, because it's squishy.tormensoth wrote: »Ive been a player here for 2 years now, and after thousands of deaths to the hands of monsters way below my level, I figure the only thing I can do is complain. But Archers just plain suck inside just about every dungeon in the game. Ive watched just about every other class, with half the gear and refines, grace through this game with ease. I just dont understand it. Ive paid hundreds of dollars over the years building my armor and weapons and yet it still seams even with a +5 tt99 weapon, and tt99 armor, I still get owned by just about everything. Is it my play? or are Archers just that weak? Ive followed behind sins who can just gallop through these things, no cleric, just owning everything in their path, and it seams archers are just here so the clerics have someone to rez. I tried a low level tt solo mode being the last days of 2x drops were at hand just to see if anything has changed, but it appears it has just gotten worse. All the Platnum charms and crab meat wont keep you alive long enough to put a dent in anything. I can say without a doubt that the Crazy stone and world quests were made just for us archers. Is there a lvl 100 archer out there who can say otherwise, if so, I would love a reason to continue.
Thank you and Good Hunting
Archers shine in group and mass PvP. If you like to PK in groups or TW, then no archers do not suck; in fact they're key players in those situations. However if you like to 1v1 and PVE, you should probably roll a less frustrating class for yourself. A good geared archer can solo PvE and a good player can 1v1, but it seems to me you're depending on your wallet instead of your ability, so I would point you in the direction of assassins, which are good at 1v1 and PvE and require minimal effort in both.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ಥ_ಥ MOAR.
SkyKoC - How long is yours?0 -
Well, people are going to tell you that they make clawchers and clawbarians for gear farming purposes, not for standard gameplay... which is hilariously flawed because if farming your gears doesn't count as standard gameplay in an MMO, I don't know what does. XDSir_Puma - Raging Tide wrote: »What I don't like though about them, is those going fists. The "main" job of a archer is to have HIGH dex, so their LONG range attacks are more potent and they have the high evasion they were meant to have. Wearing fists is , to me, plainly stupid. Fists uses STRENGTH to do more damage and I don't know a archer that has anything near 300.
It's the same with barbs that go fists, it "might" work if u have a lot of money to invest , but they take out from their MAIN stat, VITALITY, to do so.
Archers were made to stay far and pew pew, with high damage/high evasion and high crit rate and stay safe. (They can even puchback a melee mob coming too close)
When people will understand that, they will see how good they can be.
Either way, the whole point of this thread is how the OP bemoans archers as being unable to solo things... and, fists or no fists, you're not supposed to solo endgame instances. The only reason people can do it with fists is because of a coding oversight, and the only reason sins can do it is because the dev team who made them wouldn't know class balance if it kicked them square in the nads.
None of this should have any effect on archers and their (intended) contribution to squads, however. In the end, the OP simply expected something from his class which it was not designed to do (nor should any class have been).[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
Well you actually can solo all end game instances on an archer but the gear requirements are significantly higher than sins and bms...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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GoodStart - Dreamweaver wrote: »Archers are fail bc whenever their squad reaches a boss within a dungeon, they alt tab to watch youtube or troll the PWI forums.
Otherwise, it is a fairly cost effective class and a lot of fun to play.
So THATS what those Archers are doing whenever I see them stand 30 m back from the Bosses in Nirvy and set pew pew on auto. b:laugh0 -
It's not so much that archers suck, but only a select few people can see how amazing archers can be. You just have to be that person. I don't mind being uber squishy because of my range (granted I don't PvP so PvE wise) making it hard for my enemies to attack if they're melee. Usually by the time they get to me, they're dead. b:surrender
I also like to alt tab while in TT runs (or atleast used to with my other guild that would make lots of use out of vent, and when I still played) when 5aps wasn't even around and it took a long time for people to kill the bosses. I'd just stand in BB range > spark macro > alt tab/go clean. That's the best part about archers/BMs/sins if they aren't tanking. >_>;;
But as far as skill is concerned, this is about the only class that cashshopping will NOT make you good at. You need to know how to evade things, use your sparks to sparingly (especially if you aren't a clawrcher), and time everything just right. You can have godly +12 gears but that won't help you in PvP or PvE.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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tormensoth wrote: »Archers just plain suck inside just about every dungeon in the game... tried a low level tt solo mode... Level 95-99: Archers suck at endgame! I need +8 in all my equips so I can last long enough to run away! Is there a lvl 100 archer out there who can say otherwise...
"Otherwise."
- Level 100 archer
Not only can I say otherwise, from level 95-98 with almost all +2 gears and +5 weapons I could pull fc, tank all the bosses, out DD almost every random player I squadded within that level range. Even had to solo some bosses in there due to careless players causing squad wipes. From level 90 I solo'd every TT solo mode. I have tanked many of the TT squad mode bosses and BH bosses with a cleric. TW is very fun as an archer as well. I am definitely not the best archer around and nowhere near being the best geared- I can only imagine what they can do. But archers definitely don't suck in any dungeon. Especially dungeons that require zhen.0 -
Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »So THATS what those Archers are doing whenever I see them stand 30 m back from the Bosses in Nirvy and set pew pew on auto. b:laugh
b:quiet We started doing that well before then... At least, I did.101 Sage Sin*/Archer
100 Demon BM*/Barb
96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
95 Demon Wiz/
94 Sage Veno
85 Psy/80 Mystic
And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
*Pre RB level0 -
Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »Well you actually can solo all end game instances on an archer but the gear requirements are significantly higher than sins and bms...
True go R9+10 and you can go solo all of the dungeons. OP sins and bms need a good gears like nirvana is not true they are op with low gears.
For a archer kill solo bosses is kinda hard but with mobs archer can kill all mobs in the game, the secret never left the mob touch you.0 -
I dont play an archer as my main toon.
but i have to say i do have lots of fun with it.
my primary is a Barb.
my archer cant take the damage like my tank can, but we are talking about damage dealing at 30 meters, as opposed to standing there and sucking it up.
Archers can be lots of fun, i suggest running a little more.
knowing when to bug out and fly is an outstanding survival skill.
later, hope it works out for you man.
DA0 -
Dethprowl - Raging Tide wrote: »Yeah, everytime I had an archer pew-pewing me to death in TW I just grumbled to myself about how much that class sucked.
+1 to that...I QQ all the time in TW when the stupid archers keep killing me...even close range...so yeah, not all archers suck...get full R9 with +10 refines and you're almost invincible lol"Care Bear" b:chuckle
Proud member of Drakon - forever !! RAWR0 -
I had an archer of the same level range 2-shot my full vit barb. Granted, I wasn't turtled and the archer sported a rank 9 bow. So...great story man.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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