How to solo PvE with a wizard?

Adroit - Lost City · September 2011

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »

How could someone ever doubt that?

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »

wiz in OHT

How could someone that lives for pve not know that slows override (glacial snare -> gush over and over and over.. lawl)

How could someone that relies on slows forget to use paralyze (hailstorm) to slow a mob/boss from moving into range?

How could someone that talks about efficiency and mana pools think that letting their charm get ***** instead of using hp pots/apoth/genie is a good idea?

How could someone that tries to avoid using mp pots by using sutra and triple spark forget to use pyrogram for the extra chi (more mp back from using sutra/sparks more often)?

How could someone that talks about efficiency and mana pools forget that using pyrogram in place of crown of flame or pitfall would increase dps?

How could someone with a join date of Feb 2010 still not know how to avoid a duplicate row of hotkeys?

I dunno, I guess nobody is perfect to answer your question.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide · September 2011

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

How could someone that lives for pve not know that slows override (glacial snare -> gush over and over and over.. lawl)

I facepalmed when I saw her using gush right after GS lmao

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver · September 2011

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

How could someone that lives for pve not know that slows override (glacial snare -> gush over and over and over.. lawl)

...

1. Duration of the slow effect being set by Glacial Snare is 6 sec. maximum.

2. If Wizard cast Glacial Snare and then run from mob during few seconds, he/she has full rights to cast Gush during 1 sec. of cast time, so slow effect will be set again.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

...
How could someone that talks about efficiency and mana pools forget that using pyrogram in place of crown of flame or pitfall would increase dps?
...

During attack of the boss Crown of Flame cast once per 15 sec has better dps than pyrogram .

Crown of Flame
Lvl 10: causes fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 50% of weapon damage plus 3012.9 over 15 seconds
Sage: causes fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 65% of weapon damage plus 5693.0 over 15 seconds
Demon: causes fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 50% of weapon damage plus 5693.0 over 10 seconds

Pyrogram:

Level 10:
Range 28.5
Mana 141
Channel 1.5 seconds
Cast 0.8 seconds
Cooldown 3.0 seconds
Using the force of the Raging Flame, cast out onto the enemy a blazing pyrogram. Inflicts Fire damage equal to 100% of weapon damage plus base magic damage plus 1379.6.

Sage:
Range 30.0
Mana 265
Channel 1.5 seconds
Cast 0.8 seconds
Cooldown 3.0 seconds
Using the force of the Raging Flame, cast out onto the enemy a blazing
pyrogram. Inflicts Fire damage equal to 100% of weapon damage plus base magic damage plus 3620.0. Has a chance to regain Chi.
Sage version grants a 20% chance to gain 30 Chi on a successful hit.

Demon:
Range 30.0
Mana 265
Channel 1.2 seconds
Cast 0.8 seconds
Cooldown 3.0 seconds
Using the force of the Raging Flame, cast out onto the enemy a blazing
pyrogram. Inflicts Fire damage equal to 100% of weapon damage plus base magic damage plus 3620.0.
Demon version reduces channeling time by 1.2 seconds.

And

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

...

I dunno, I guess nobody is perfect to answer your question.

I have answers.

Adroit - Lost City · September 2011

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

1. Duration of the slow effect being set by Glacial Snare is 6 sec. maximum.

2. If Wizard cast Glacial Snare and then run from mob during few seconds, he/she has full rights to cast Gush during 1 sec. of cast time, so slow effect will be set again,

1. Duration of the slow effect being set by Glacial Snare is 6 seconds. It is always 6 seconds.

2. Sure, let's use gs to slow the target by 80% for 6 seconds.. then override the 80% slow with a 45% slow 3 seconds in. Beautiful. So using a slow effect to keep a mob out of range only to override it with a lesser slow so that the mob/boss gets back in range faster.. sounds like a brilliant plan to me.

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver · September 2011

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

1. Duration of the slow effect being set by Glacial Snare is 6 seconds. It is always 6 seconds.

2. Sure, let's use gs to slow the target by 80% for 6 seconds.. then override the 80% slow with a 45% slow 3 seconds in. Beautiful. So using a slow effect to keep a mob out of range only to override it with a lesser slow so that the mob/boss gets back in range faster.. sounds like a brilliant plan to me.

It is possible to cast different slowing spells without being catch by the mob.

To do this one such spell must be cast after another with interval to run away from the mob.

Edit:
At level first Glacial Snare has slow duration 4.2 seconds by 80%.
At high levels it is more (up to 6 seconds by 80%).

Adroit - Lost City · September 2011

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It is possible to cast different slowing spells without being catch by the mob.

To do this one such spell must be cast after another with interval to run away from the mob.

Edit:
At level first Glacial Snare has slow duration 4.2 seconds by 80%.
At high levels it is more (up to 6 seconds by 80%).

LAWL

1. I am referring to the video which uses sage glacial snare.. just because you're a lowbie doesn't mean everything and everyone else is.

2. Crown of flames does not have any weapon multiplier, nice pulling that out of your ***.

3. Besides the fact that pyrogram has a weapon multiplier, and that dots are not affected by attack levels.. the extra chi alone is reason enough to use it over crown of flames.

4. I can't believe your first comment in this post, have you ever fought blackhole? (probably not.. I'm wasting my time with some idiot lowbie) Have you even watched the video?

Get back to leveling, you might learn something n00b.
Joy, we've got lowbie BLOODMYSTIC amoungst us now.

amingwati · September 2011

Plz don't fight.. b:beg

I don't realize (don't even know before) that she make some mistake about glacial snare in that vid. but somehow she managed to survive and beat that monster in the end. So I think it's still ok.. I think it's really nice even if it's not perfect..

But I'll keep in mind not to overwrite glacial snare with gush when I get that skill.. b:thanks

currently I'm level 38, somehow my wizard feels stronger, it can kill a melee monster with 5k HP without kiting anymore.. But if Gush failed to slow the monster then I still need to run.. b:avoid

Fulcanelli - Raging Tide · September 2011

amingwati wrote: »

Plz don't fight.. b:beg

they do it all the time, don't worry, it's called sexual tension, they just need to spend some quality time alone and release their stress... if you know what I mean b:sin

good to know that your wizzie is becoming stronger! b:victory

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur · September 2011

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I guess mobs do have a same element penalty.. lmao

noob

/char

Adroit - Lost City · September 2011

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

noob

/char

Ah, I was wondering where you went to. I almost thought you had ragequit for good that time.. I guess it was just a few months b:chuckle I wonder how long you'll last this time?

DaKillanator - Raging Tide · September 2011

Is that lowbie seriously arguing the merits of overriding a 6second slow with a 3 second slow...? Nevermind the difference in slow %, I'm just stuck on the fact that he thinks 3 = 6...

Fulcanelli - Raging Tide · September 2011

everybody is picking at the lowbie, I'm the lowest and I'm gonna defend him!!! (just because you love when lowbies dare to give an opinion b:chuckle)

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

Is that lowbie seriously arguing the merits of overriding a 6second slow with a 3 second slow...? Nevermind the difference in slow %, I'm just stuck on the fact that he thinks 3 = 6...

I really don't think he is talking about overriding GS, he is saying that you can "extend" the slow effect by casting gush after an interval of running (= GS slow wears off), because you know there is something called... cooldown... but what should I know... I'm just a lowbie.

PS: if you were just trolling, please ignore this post tyvm.

Adroit - Lost City · September 2011

Fulcanelli - Raging Tide wrote: »

everybody is picking at the lowbie, I'm the lowest and I'm gonna defend him!!! (just because you love when lowbies dare to give an opinion b:chuckle)

I really don't think he is talking about overriding GS, he is saying that you can "extend" the slow effect by casting gush after an interval of running (= GS slow wears off), because you know there is something called... cooldown... but what should I know... I'm just a lowbie.

PS: if you were just trolling, please ignore this post tyvm.

What we don't care for is lowbies giving end game advice.

If you had ever tried to solo blackhole, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Blackhole is ranged and moves very quickly (as well as slows us). The 80% slow from glacial snare is almost as good as a paralyze.. it ain't going anywhere w/ that 80% slow on. So after a FoW.. he is out of range, and a glacial snare will keep him out of range for the entire duration of the slow (6 seconds). Using gush will actually speed him up and get him into range before he otherwise would have. Not only that, but his base speed is so far above ours that even with the slow from gush.. you won't be able to kite him by just running. It's like running from a cop car on your bicycle and thinking that slowing them by 45% will matter.. you'd be far better off stopping them for 10 minutes than slowing them by half for the entire day. A car at half speed ain't going to have any trouble keeping up with a bicycle. Same principle applies for kiting blackhole.

Fulcanelli - Raging Tide · September 2011

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

What we don't care for is lowbies giving end game advice.

If you had ever tried to solo blackhole, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Blackhole is ranged and moves very quickly (as well as slows us). The 80% slow from glacial snare is almost as good as a paralyze.. it ain't going anywhere w/ that 80% slow on. So after a FoW.. he is out of range, and a glacial snare will keep him out of range for the entire duration of the slow (6 seconds). Using gush will actually speed him up and get him into range before he otherwise would have. Not only that, but his base speed is so far above ours that even with the slow from gush.. you won't be able to kite him by just running. It's like running from a cop car on your bicycle and thinking that slowing them by 45% will matter.. you'd be far better off stopping them for 10 minutes than slowing them by half for the entire day. A car at half speed ain't going to have any trouble keeping up with a bicycle. Same principle applies for kiting blackhole.

I see your point (you couldn't make it more clear b:chuckle) but...

just to make my point:

there was no GS override on magicsaber's argument so... be nice.

I rest my case.

Adroit - Lost City · September 2011

Fulcanelli - Raging Tide wrote: »

I see your point (you couldn't make it more clear b:chuckle) but...

just to make my point:

there was no GS override on magicsaber's argument so... be nice.

I rest my case.

He quoted my comment about using gush right after glacial snare being ****.. and then went on trying to say there is no problem with it (along with saying using crown instead of pyro somehow increases dps.. lawl). I have no problem with opinions, but saber is just another lowbie that thinks he knows better than everyone else. I try to be nice to people, but someone trying to correct what I say (when I'm right) and is rude about it? I don't feel obligated in the least to be nice back. I suck it up when I'm wrong, but this slow argument just isn't one of those times.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide · September 2011

and have you watched the vid Harmonie posted? She wasn't waiting for the cd on GS. I can understand gushing after GS because everything helps, but Harmonie was gushing immediately after GS.

Fulcanelli - Raging Tide · September 2011

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

He quoted my comment about using gush right after glacial snare being ****.. and then went on trying to say there is no problem with it (along with saying using crown instead of pyro somehow increases dps.. lawl). I have no problem with opinions, but saber is just another lowbie that thinks he knows better than everyone else. I try to be nice to people, but someone trying to correct what I say (when I'm right) and is rude about it? I don't feel obligated in the least to be nice back. I suck it up when I'm wrong, but this slow argument just isn't one of those times.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

and have you watched the vid Harmonie posted? She wasn't waiting for the cd on GS. I can understand gushing after GS because everything helps, but Harmonie was gushing immediately after GS.

ok, ok... I've been defeated b:surrender

not need for a post actually but I think I finally figure it out the multi-quoting thing and I want to test it.

last time I post here I promise, unless it's topic related... do you remember the original topic don't you? lol

EDIT: yay! it worked!

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver · September 2011

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

LAWL
...I am referring to the video which uses sage glacial snare.. just because you're a lowbie doesn't mean everything and everyone else is...

Sorry, you can't see (are you blind ?) that this is topic for level 30+ Wizard ?

My words are more valuable to him, than your, because we are (not you ) have low level.

Your only valuable addition can be: "Level up to 100+ and you can do same as at video".

I do comparison with current level of OP and said, that he has not GS with 6 seconds slow effect yet.

... Removed since too complex for you may be...

But you can calculate yourself what is difference between two starting spells in damage (if you had completed school).
Edit:
As you can see I not use "*" words, so all can understand me.

DudeLupus - Raging Tide · September 2011

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sorry, you can't see (are you blind ?) that this is topic for level 30+ Wizard ?

My words are more valuable to him, than your, because we are (not you ) have low level.

Your only valuable addition can be: "Level up to 100+ and you can do same as at video".

I do comparison with current level of OP and said, that he has not GS with 6 seconds slow effect yet.

... Removed since too complex for you may be...

But you can calculate yourself what is difference between two starting spells in damage (if you had completed school).
Edit:
As you can see I not use "*" words, so all can understand me.

lolwut b:surrender

rgog · September 2011

Start a Veno, much more fun and great survivablity. You have a built in group at all times (pet tank) and you can DD, regen your own mana and heal yourself and your pet tank.

I played a wizzy till the mid 30's but also got tired of not being able to kill many monster types and even when I did I would have to med or pot.

If you don't want to give up your wizard, you are now allowed to duo log so make a veno and then you can team up with your wizzy to make things easier.

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver · September 2011

Here is proof that Pyrogram has less dps than Crown Of Flame (Adroit - look at it there are pictures).

Pyrogram do 10466 damage after 1.5 of channeling time and 0.8 of cast time :

DPS of Pyrogram= 10466/(1.5+0.8)=10466/2.3=4550

Crown Of Flame do 7299 damage after 1 of channeling time and 1 of cast time, also 465 every 2 second during 15 seconds :

DPS of Crown Of Flame= (7299+7*465)/(1+1)=10554/2=5277.

Fulcanelli - Raging Tide · September 2011

rgog wrote: »

Start a Veno, much more fun and great survivablity. You have a built in group at all times (pet tank) and you can DD, regen your own mana and heal yourself and your pet tank.

I played a wizzy till the mid 30's but also got tired of not being able to kill many monster types and even when I did I would have to med or pot.

If you don't want to give up your wizard, you are now allowed to duo log so make a veno and then you can team up with your wizzy to make things easier.

you offend me sir! wizards are perfectly able to do all the normal questing and grinding, of course it's allways easier and funnier to do it in squad.

About wizard's partners I'm not sure about the veno as the best choice, my cleric with his only two spammable DD skills can kill normal mobs faster than a veno ten levels higher.
It's kinda annoying actually to match melee with ranged classes on regular questing/grinding.

I think the best partner for a wiz it's a cleric: free buffs, the two are ranged, clerics have a phys DD skill for the freakin "increased magic resistance" mobe type and of course all the good healing wich is awesome to wizards that love to DB (like op).

with all my love,

Fulcanelli b:thanks

Kagizyu - Heavens Tear · September 2011

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Here is proof that Pyrogram has less dps than Crown Of Flame (Adroit - look at it there are pictures).

Pyrogram do 10466 damage after 1.5 of channeling time and 0.8 of cast time :

DPS of Pyrogram= 10466/(1.5+0.8)=10466/2.3=4550

Crown Of Flame do 7299 damage after 1 of channeling time and 1 of cast time, also 465 every 1 second during 15 seconds :

DPS of Crown Of Flame= (7299+15*465)/(1+1)=14274/2=7137.

Invalid, for 1... I think i see a magic sword yur holdin thar.
Test bare handed... or even with a wand if you dont want to bare.

Two, pyrogram can crit the damage, while crown cannot crit the DoT.

Three, only if your that poor to have zero channel... e.e

Fulcanelli - Raging Tide · September 2011

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Here is proof that Pyrogram has less dps than Crown Of Flame (Adroit - look at it there are pictures).

Pyrogram do 10466 damage after 1.5 of channeling time and 0.8 of cast time :

DPS of Pyrogram= 10466/(1.5+0.8)=10466/2.2=4757

Crown Of Flame do 7299 damage after 1 of channeling time and 1 of cast time, also 465 every 1 second during 15 seconds :

DPS of Crown Of Flame= (7299+15*465)/(1+1)=14274/2=7137.

I'm realize that I'm hell of a noob but allow me to intervine here:

you are confusing dps = damage per second with dph = damage per hit
the numbers you posted are the dph of the skills EDIT: actually I'm the one confused my bad lol, I'm not sure how should be consider it for the DoTs tbh, but I think you have to "spread" the total damage of crown of flames over all the 15 seconds + chan + cast times, if you do that (and doing the same for pyro):

pyro dps > crown dps

Never the less I do agree that placing crown in between the "standard" skill chain increase the overall dps when fighting bosses and you have the time for crown's DoT makes it's full dmg.

Just a though, feel free to flame me b:surrender

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver · September 2011

Kagizyu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Invalid, for 1... I think i see a magic sword yur holdin thar.
Test bare handed... or even with a wand if you dont want to bare.

Two, pyrogram can crit the damage, while crown cannot crit the DoT.

Three, only if your that poor to have zero channel... e.e

I had done about dozens of images.

Sorry, but those are average results.

If you want I will post all of them.

Edit:

My crit rate now 3%

Channeling about -15%, but I had removed bonuses from calculation.

Fulcanelli - Raging Tide wrote: »

I'm realize that I'm hell of a noob but allow me to intervine here:

you are confusing dps = damage per second with dph = damage per hit

the numbers you posted are the dph of the skills, I'm not sure how should be consider it for the DoTs tbh, but I think you have to "spreed" the total damage of crown of flames over all the 15 seconds + chan + cast times, if you do that (and doing the same for pyro):

pyro dps > crown dps

Never the less I do agree that placing crown in between the "standard" skill chain increase the overall dps when fighting bosses and you have the time for crown's DoT makes it's full dmg.

Just a though, feel free to flame me b:surrender

Ok, here is how it can be calculated:

Total damage of Any skill/ (Time to Channel and Cast this skill) = Damage per second of skill.

It is common formula.

And again dps of Crown of Flame is more than dps of Pyrogram .

dph of Pyrogram is more than dph of Crown of Flame.

Adroit - Lost City · September 2011

@Saber - If you quote me, you are responding to me.. not the thread in general. Don't even try to make it sound like you were talking about anything other than the video (glacial snare -> gush).

And you conveniently forgot to include attack levels, crit, channeling, the weapon you were using in the calculation, and the extra chi that sage pyro gives. I've done the calculations.. and I'd ask you to do the same but I doubt you are even capable of dealing with so many variables. In the video, using crown instead of pyro was ****. But you wouldn't know about end game crit/channeling/sage + demon effects on skills etc etc.. a lowbie like you has no business offering advice for anything over your level. You just have no idea what you're talking about.

Fulcanelli - Raging Tide · September 2011

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ok, here is how it can be calculated:

Total damage of Any skill/ (Time to Channel and Cast this skill) = Damage per second of skill.

It is common formula.

And again dps of Crown of Flame is more than dps of Pyrogram .

dph of Pyrogram is more than dph of Crown of Flame.

yeah you are right I don't know what was I seeing... for the pyro example.

Again I think that crown's dps should be spreaded to the full lenght of the DoT, like this:

crown dps = 7299/(1+1) + 465 = 4114 EDIT: this doesn't look right either

otherwise it's kinda missleading, you don't get the full damage till the 15 second DoT is done.

EDIT: tbh I don't know what the hell I'm doing anymore... all I can say is: freaking DoTs!!!! >:(

EDIT 2: forgeting the formulas used and just sticking to the definition of dps and logic it seems that crown of flames have two different dps: one is 7299/(1+1) for the first two seconds and then 465 the last 15 ones, the thing is how the hell you get the skill overall dps.

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver · September 2011

Fulcanelli - Raging Tide wrote: »

yeah you are right I don't know what was I seeing... for the pyro example.

Again I think that crown's dps should be spreaded to the full lenght of the DoT, like this:

crown dps = 7299/(1+1) + 465 = 4114

otherwise it's kinda missleading, you don't get the full damage till the 15 second DoT is done.

You are looking at damage per hit.

I am looking for total damage and for every second that I need to do such damage .

Because time to do and time when done are different things.

Time to do or time to channel and cast skill is less than time when done total damage DoT (15 seconds later), but I know, that it will be done.

Fulcanelli - Raging Tide · September 2011

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You are looking at damage per hit.

I am looking for total damage and for every second that I need to do such damage .

Because time to do and time when done are different things.

forget about that I'm writting faster than my thinking b:surrender

I'm gonna go with this as my final thought about it:

Fulcanelli - Raging Tide wrote: »

EDIT 2: forgeting the formulas used and just sticking to the definition of dps and logic it seems that crown of flames have two different dps: one is 7299/(1+1) for the first two seconds and then 465 the last 15 ones, the thing is how the hell you get the skill overall dps.

and I'm not gonna think about it anymore!!!!! b:infuriated

amingwati · September 2011

uh oh.. this thread gonna overlap the stickied threads..
ok guys, feel free to discuss anything about PvE wizard here, about skills, damage etc.. b:thanks
but plz don't fight.. b:beg

Yesterday I managed to reach lv 39, have finished the cultivation too, thx to the nice barb that killed krixxix for me.. those damn krixxix killed me easily when I tried to solo it..
I already learned WoP now.. It's not as easy as seen on the vid.. -_-
If I started it too far, my wizard run to the monster before start casting, but if it's too near then the monsters able to hit me before being knocked back..
And I don't know if it's just my feeling, but sometimes the monsters seems to "run faster" right after being knocked back, as a result in a blink they are already standing in front of me again.. b:shocked

rgog wrote: »

Start a Veno, much more fun and great survivablity. You have a built in group at all times (pet tank) and you can DD, regen your own mana and heal yourself and your pet tank.

I played a wizzy till the mid 30's but also got tired of not being able to kill many monster types and even when I did I would have to med or pot.

If you don't want to give up your wizard, you are now allowed to duo log so make a veno and then you can team up with your wizzy to make things easier.

b:chuckle that is what I heard from some veno ingame too, she help me kill elder turtle for my quest back then, and she said that a veno can solo kill bosses easily.. she also suggest me to make a veno.. -_-
I interested in veno too, and will make it someday.. but for now I'll do my wiz first.. b:victory

How to solo PvE with a wizard?

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