Sins

DeathenShada - Archosaur
DeathenShada - Archosaur Posts: 82 Arc User
edited September 2011 in Archer
As a archer sins are like our nemesis they use our bows, have same rate, and generally **** me off. They're also pretty good at kicking my *** in duels/TW etc.

So to get to the point whats the best way to kill sins? at close range (after they tele-stun) and when you have the advantage at long range.

Thanks for your input :)
Post edited by DeathenShada - Archosaur on
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Comments

  • apdragon
    apdragon Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Archers use fists because of omfg5aps, so why does it **** you off when sins use bows? Ijs. b:cute
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    In 1v1 with equal gear and skill, an archer does not beat a sin unless the sin has horrible luck while the archer has far better luck.

    In mass PvP, sins are **** and easy picking for archers to focus fire if/when they pop out of stealth.
  • MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear
    MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,377 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    DeathenShada - Archosaur wrote: »
    As a archer sins are like better version of us, they use our bows, have same rate, didn't need str to fight in melee (unlike us using fist), and generally **** me off. They're also pretty good at kicking my *** in duels/TW etc.

    So to get to the point whats the best way to kill sins? at close range (after they tele-stun) and when you have the advantage at long range.

    Thanks for your input :)

    Pray or just hope you got lucky. b:victory
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  • DeathenShada - Archosaur
    DeathenShada - Archosaur Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    wow thanks for the input -sarcasm- was super helpfull - more sarcasm -
  • Anelyn - Sanctuary
    Anelyn - Sanctuary Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    If the sin has equal gear and equal sin you can't win. Broken class is broken.

    Your only chance is if the sin is an idiot and for you to have vastly better gear. Try using expel, wings of grace, kiting and metal attacks. Hope for the best.
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Tidal protection means stunning arrow will only work half the time.

    Also, trying to kill a sin up close is stupid. Daggers > Fists/claws, even if a bm was using them, so there's no way an archer with low str and LA is going to win that battle.

    And if you can find a way to kite sins and their 2 tele stuns, stealth, and 9 sec paralyze, please tell the rest of us because we'd love to hear it.
  • Anelyn - Sanctuary
    Anelyn - Sanctuary Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Tidal protection means stunning arrow will only work half the time.

    Less than that, it can still miss (since sins have same evasion as archer) and still has a chance to fail even if it lands.
  • VipertheElf - Sanctuary
    VipertheElf - Sanctuary Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    DeathenShada - Archosaur
    Sins
    As a archer sins are like our nemesis they use our bows, have same rate, and generally ****
    me off. They're also pretty good at kicking my *** in duels/TW etc.
    Pvp/duels yes.TW it's different story, archers are more useful in battleground
  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    In 1v1, fish are the broken class that will dominate.

    We have every locking skill in our skill list. in terms of demon, 2 teles to get close to you, with one of them being a 5 second stun, 9 second freeze via tackling slash, 4 second silence/seal via throatcut, 5 second stun via headhunt, 5 second sleep via deep sting, and insanely high dps. not to mention a 30 meter 100% chance to interrupt skill, high amounts of chi, relatively low cooldowns on said skills, tidal protection that has a 50% chance to avoid any debuff you throw at us (demon having a separate 10% chance to make your attacks do 1 damage).

    add in our high dps that relies on high dex, high crit rate, high evasion, both stealths, and you get the broken class of 1v1 pvp.


    but, in terms of group pvp, such as TW, sins are only there to take out key targets assigned to them. if you see one, they're easy to kill if they're not aiming for you. even if we can use archer's bows, archers have a much higher range of attack and skills, so us using bows is quite limited.
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  • Evinerre - Lost City
    Evinerre - Lost City Posts: 167 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Well, the secret is in pro kiting. Unlike seekers you have a reliable anti stun, and a reliable immobilize and stun. A well equipped genie will help kiting immensely, and surviving. Badge of courage and holy path are like...sex. Domain or expel help with surviving the first attack. Yeah it's a lot of precaution to take for 1 class, but like 80% of my fights are against sins. Like 18% BMs, and 2% the others b:chuckle

    Broken class is broken but killable with some skill.
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    What's special about a Sin using a bow?

    My Archer, at 93, with a Windcatcher, 1 socket, +2, was pulling aggro off a sin last night using a Vast Lands 2 socket +10 on harpies in FCC. First hit and I had aggro, even if it was half dead.

    Sins using bows is great. It means that ****ty sins can kill the hands at the boss right before heads so I can DD. Or, if frozen, they can pull aggro off the cleric if a bishop is meleeing them on Runewolf (Knife Throw, then use bow until unfrozen).

    Bow is nothing but a mob-killer for stuff you can't stab on a Sin. My Sin gets my TT80 Gold bow simply because I can stash it and my Archer doesn't really have any use for it anymore.

    So, your complaint is... utterly pointless.

    Granted, I've pulled aggro off Archers with my bow in FCC on harpies on my Sin... I generally regard them as fail. >_> (I have 90 base vit on my Sin, no Bow mastery on my Sin [workin on it, I swear], the only thing that's really good about using bow on my Sin is the bow is 2 sockets with immacs +4).
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • Decus - Dreamweaver
    Decus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    using a Vast Lands 2 socket +10

    Wow... =/
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray
  • Shandelzare - Sanctuary
    Shandelzare - Sanctuary Posts: 732 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Best way to beat a sin in a 1v1 is to cash shop r9 and pray that the sin doesn't have just as much money as you.
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  • Evinerre - Lost City
    Evinerre - Lost City Posts: 167 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Wow... =/

    I've seen +12 Calamitys before.
  • Sint - Harshlands
    Sint - Harshlands Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Evinerre - Lost City wrote: »
    I've seen +12 Calamitys before.

    i can explain that .-. Someone had way too much money back when calams were pro.
  • Shandelzare - Sanctuary
    Shandelzare - Sanctuary Posts: 732 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Sint - Harshlands wrote: »
    i can explain that .-. Someone had way too much money back when calams were pro.

    I have a better explanation. There was another noob on the servers.
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  • Evinerre - Lost City
    Evinerre - Lost City Posts: 167 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Shandelzare - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I have a better explanation. There was another noob on the servers.

    I got a better one, it was arch server.
  • MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear
    MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,377 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Shandelzare - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Best way to beat a sin in a 1v1 is to cash shop r9 and pray that the sin doesn't have just as much money as you.

    This, i approve.
    + hope the AssAssIn connection are **** or slower than you
    + hope AssAssIn real life location got bad weather
    + hope someone bugging the AssAssIn in real life
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  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Evinerre - Lost City wrote: »
    I got a better one, it was arch server.

    +11 Mirage Sword beats your +12 calamities.... and this was from before we had ocean orb sales.
  • Decus - Dreamweaver
    Decus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    truekossy wrote: »
    +11 Mirage Sword beats your +12 calamities.... and this was from before we had ocean orb sales.

    The worst I ever saw was a +10 TT90 xbow (long before orb sales and packs) and +10 calamities (around the same time).
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Speaking of +10 TT90 bows... I remember, This thing. Shame he edited the images later on. b:chuckle
  • Decus - Dreamweaver
    Decus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    truekossy wrote: »
    Speaking of +10 TT90 bows... I remember, This thing. Shame he edited the images later on. b:chuckle

    I was thinking the same thing. +7 isn't as bad as +10 though I suppose it's mitigated by the fact that it's a 2* newb weap.
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Hey... I have a TT90 dagger that's +7.

    I've spent ~3 mil putting Perfect shards in it, other than that, it was given to me in it's current condition for free. :3

    I oneshot an Archer in TW with it, and just about killed a Seeker through his charm with it twice (R9 Cleric ended up oneshotting him right after I ticked his charm XD).

    Most of my 90's gear is +3. >_> Some is +4.

    But... You CAN find Hook's that are +10. And my TT90 dagger does about the same DPS as they do. Worst thing is, with my current gear, if I were demon, Hooks would demon spark to 2.22, and TT90 would demon spark to... 2.22. D:
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear
    Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,681 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    2 Socket immaculate garnets +7 Unicorn. Yes it is true
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  • achard
    achard Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    well first off personally i feel assassins aren't broken class >_>. They do exactly what they are intended to do. Hit fast, hit hard, and have high crit with debuff attacks. low hp and light armor is their biggest downfall so i dont really think an assassin has much of an advantage on an archer, especially in large or mid group PvP, considering other teammates, the archer's stuns, immobs, knockback, if you have it equipped, genie knockback (i think the skill's earthquake or something?) looots of elemental skill atttacks. and generally a better use of a bow, and as people mentioned before 1) fists are great for archers in CQC, and bows on assassins are really more just a PvE thing, its just so we can reach the dumb little mobs that run away or use ranged : \. and for killing that stupid *** kun kun thing x__x.

    i do agree in one on one if they DO get close to you though they can be a pain in the ****, but again there's things you can do for this. (fists, knockback, earthquake)

    just my opinion on the matter : )
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    achard wrote: »
    i do agree in one on one if they DO get close to you though they can be a pain in the ****, but again there's things you can do for this. (fists, knockback, earthquake)

    just my opinion on the matter : )

    You don't really have much credibility if you think knockback skills and earthquake work in pvp.
    Why are you posting on a topic you don't know anything about?
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  • Decus - Dreamweaver
    Decus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    achard wrote: »
    just my opinion on the matter : )

    Your opinion is based off lots of inaccuracies. Fists in PvP?
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray
  • Aznking - Dreamweaver
    Aznking - Dreamweaver Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    OMG imagine if u could use knockback.... all a sin would have to do is use a telly skill and poof they are in your face again... unless of course u run xD
  • Vindis - Dreamweaver
    Vindis - Dreamweaver Posts: 614 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Sins really aren't that challenging unless its in a gank. They sort of have to stick to a similar strategy and to be honest, several other classes are alot worse off than archers are (we have 2 antistuns afterall). Given a good sin *should* always beat a good archer, but it doesn't always happen like this. If its in a straight up duel the following skills are your friend:

    Wings of Grace (Less damage AND antistun; Plus immune to damage while casting)
    Winged Shell (Prevents you from being one shot)
    Stunning Arrow and Aim Low (Because you can also use control skills)
    Thunder Shock/Lightning Strike (Because they too have trash ele defenses)

    If the above fails, I recommend jumping and flying, especially if your skills are on cooldown. Dropping and stunning them in the air also works wonders. Using terrain to your advantage can also work, for example get a tower or wall between yourselves and shoot through it. If all else fails, you are basically dead. If still alive, run for your life. b:chuckle

    In TW or pvp I recommend the use of crabs/other apoth items to help give you an edge. Phys defense charms can also help if you know you are about to be ganked.
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  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Sins really aren't that challenging unless its in a gank. They sort of have to stick to a similar strategy and to be honest, several other classes are alot worse off than archers are (we have 2 antistuns afterall). Given a good sin *should* always beat a good archer, but it doesn't always happen like this. If its in a straight up duel the following skills are your friend:

    Wings of Grace (Less damage AND antistun; Plus immune to damage while casting)
    Winged Shell (Prevents you from being one shot)
    Stunning Arrow and Aim Low (Because you can also use control skills)
    Thunder Shock/Lightning Strike (Because they too have trash ele defenses)

    If the above fails, I recommend jumping and flying, especially if your skills are on cooldown. Dropping and stunning them in the air also works wonders. Using terrain to your advantage can also work, for example get a tower or wall between yourselves and shoot through it. If all else fails, you are basically dead. If still alive, run for your life. b:chuckle

    In TW or pvp I recommend the use of crabs/other apoth items to help give you an edge. Phys defense charms can also help if you know you are about to be ganked.

    1: They can stealth during grace assuming they don't cancel it. Congrats, you're down a spark and have the skill on cooldown.
    2: Your controls have a 50% chance of working.... except they have a 10% chance of failing on their own and a chance of missing. On top of that, sins have a normal anti-stun too and Aim Low isn't a factor due to their teleports.
    3: Terrain doesn't work. Teleports, remember?



    In a 1v1 with equal gear and skill, the sin will always win unless the sin has horrible luck compared to the archer having godly luck. Your biggest defense against a sin would be greater skill than the sin and the gear to back it up. Otherwise, you don't have a chance regardless unless the sin is an utter moron..... and fortunately for us, most sins are utter morons, so many 1v1s we experience don't give a good idea of what a Sin can really do. That plus the fact that archers beat sins hands down in mass PvP and... well... yeah.

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