APS Making casters obsolete in high instances

Why obsolete, what doesn`t allow casters to make a squad themselves + a barb? The

answer is casters want also to finish the instance faster with apsers!

What others have said are true, also a lot of casters don't like aps, some like the speed at which Nirvana goes due to the aps people in squad. Also in FCC, casters are very useful in my opinion.

WangZi - Dreamweaver wrote: »

also a lot of casters don't like aps

If this were true, why do I see casters forming Nirv, FF, and BH squads asking for APS DD's? It seems they only don't like it when they aren't the beneficiaries. Nonsensical QQ.

Its not that they are obsolete. Its the fact that they are unwilling to change their strategy to suit the situation.

I almost never see a barb in an FF because no one wants to go with them. They are so thick headed and unwilling to accept a sin or bm are perfectly capable of tanking a boss that they continue to futilely juggle agro with their inferior skills causing the healer to split their attention. When the barb could just as easily be a team player by switch to DD and just use Devour/PA letting the physical DD's tear the bosses to shreds making the boss fight actually go faster and just as smooth. Don't even remember the last time I seen a barb use Poison Fang either.

And what #3 said, what stops a caster or barb from making a squad with each other if its such a problem for them?

caster are just like any aps user... they want a fast instance also... so they try to roll with aps squads... casters get told NO b/c they are not friends and they get butt hurt and QQ why aps wont let them in the squad... but they dont wanna make a squad and run it themselves... the game worked fine before aps so why cant caster make thier own squad is beyond me...

There was a post about squad with barb + caster squads.
#1 Barb isn't a class that is liked by many people and sometimes it's just hard to find a barb.
#2 Find a barb who is willing to go only with casters.

hiddenmonkey wrote: »

Its not that they are obsolete. Its the fact that they are unwilling to change their strategy to suit the situation.

I almost never see a barb in an FF because no one wants to go with them. They are so thick headed and unwilling to accept a sin or bm are perfectly capable of tanking a boss that they continue to futilely juggle agro with their inferior skills causing the healer to split their attention. When the barb could just as easily be a team player by switch to DD and just use Devour/PA letting the physical DD's tear the bosses to shreds making the boss fight actually go faster and just as smooth. Don't even remember the last time I seen a barb use Poison Fang either.

LOL, while that is true of some barb, its not that one sided. You rarely see an undergeared Sin who should NOT be tanking hold back any DD or manage aggro so a more proper tank can do his job. Instead they go all out, making the cleric work twice as hard to keep him alive because of low defences, low HP and poor BP returns. Or ends up dying/causing a squad wipe. Unfortunately some people get a couple pieces of interval gear, slap on bloodpaint and think they are an insta-tank.
Granted many Sins can tank, but its not quite as one-sided as you made it sound.

I wouldnt say Barbs are obsolete in endgame but if you go into an instance with aps players thinking your going to be the aggro magnet you used to be youre crazy. To be truthful I cant believe I even bothered getting the demon Flesh Ream book, its probably my least used skill anymore because its useless. I spend more time in manform using hammers so I can build chi faster and spark to do better damage. Ill let the aps sin, bm and archer bounce the aggro and **** off the cleric, at least if they bite it I can go kitty and at least have a chance of finishing up.
If the game isnt going to fix Barbs so they can do their intended job throughout the span of the game they could at least build -int into their endgame equipment so we can at least choose to stay axe/hammer or go claw with our currently broken toons without spending the millions of coin to keep their mistake a viable character.

turg14 wrote: »

Now answer me another question: Its true that APS dont need healers anymore on NV?
b:surrender(Again dont be rude newcomer here :P)

That really depends on the party and peoples refines. Just saying "APS" doesn't really mean anything. Squads where people have 3.33-4.0 APS pretty much always brings a cleric. But if everyone have around +10 refines on weap and 5.0 APS its pointless to bring a healer. You dont need heals for NV if you kill bosses in 15-30 sec and have Blood Paint.

If the party is somewhere in between than its really up to the guys that will have the most aggro - do they wanna tank without heals or not.

When i use to run NV i was on 5.0 Sin/BM and there was no cleric in party. Haven't logged in-game in 5-6 months but i doubt it changed much.

Dethprowl - Raging Tide wrote: »

I wouldnt say Barbs are obsolete in endgame but if you go into an instance with aps players thinking your going to be the aggro magnet you used to be youre crazy. To be truthful I cant believe I even bothered getting the demon Flesh Ream book, its probably my least used skill anymore because its useless. I spend more time in manform using hammers so I can build chi faster and spark to do better damage. Ill let the aps sin, bm and archer bounce the aggro and **** off the cleric, at least if they bite it I can go kitty and at least have a chance of finishing up.
If the game isnt going to fix Barbs so they can do their intended job throughout the span of the game they could at least build -int into their endgame equipment so we can at least choose to stay axe/hammer or go claw with our currently broken toons without spending the millions of coin to keep their mistake a viable character.

because barbs dont get -int on their r9. bm's dont yo :O fact is, you can build a barb with -int for the same cost as a bm, and have insane hp at the same time. and use axes if you chose. hell i know a barb who transfers his bm's -int gear to his barb, uses tt100 axe instead of fists and still has 35k hp in tiger form. it's all about how you want to do your equips tbh.

Pannelo - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I think there is always a place for casters in this game. Yes there are broken classes or classes that aren't being played the way they were first designed (Barb and Archer spring to mind) but I can't see this whole DD APS craze ending. It's not because they can't change it because they could change the bosses, mobs or the interval gear so it couldn't be acheived. The fact is though that they don't want to. Also could you imagine the out cry that this would create and the possibility of losing a whole lot of players.

I don't have any issues with it being a Veno though. I was more bothered when they introduced Genies giving everyone the ability to lure and taking some of our squad role away from us.

It's like they say though. If you can't beat them, join them. Role a BM or Sin and see what all the fuss is about.

I think people assume they know what was intended for each class rather than realize the developers planned that classes would evolve to do more. For instance; Venomancers weren't intended to be lurers. -That ability was discovered after. The result of aps was intentional. It was capped at 5 long before we even got there. Despite the aps boost of Demon Eruption; people still roll aps sages. The discussions that ensue make it clear there is no clear winner. -That shows that the devs knew exactly how valuable aps would be.

I also have rolled an Assassin. I still prefer my veno for most things and have even rolled a cleric, and gone back to playing my wiz a little. Each offers decent profitability and variety in play / abilities / opportunities.

Dethprowl - Raging Tide wrote: »

If the game isnt going to fix Barbs so they can do their intended job throughout the span of the game they could at least build -int into their endgame equipment so we can at least choose to stay axe/hammer or go claw with our currently broken toons without spending the millions of coin to keep their mistake a viable character.

-It's not their intended job. They increased the aggro on your aggro skills slightly recently. If it was your intended job: they would have gone all the way with it.

We as squishies used to learn how to control our aggro because we used to be hella squishy. We don't generally learn this anymore, and like some wiz's on Stygean; some never could learn.

There are still people that are clueless about range tanking with mages. We're all tanks, and all DDs. As you point out: You're best equipped to save the day and you have buffs/ debuffs to compensate for lower dps. With the cost of repairs, why would anyone want to tank anyway? Barbs are awesome and I don't expect them to tank all the time.

Kreuz - Raging Tide wrote: »

Person A = Lvl 80 - 90 player, Person B = highlevel who can solo fc.

Just an example:

Person A logs online: "me wantz duo fc nao..... plz."
Person B: sorry busy atm
Person A: Bleh, not in the mood to do the normal way
Person A logs off.

few Hours later

Person A logs online: Duo fc?
Person B (who is still there): sorry needs to go afk.
Person A: -.- *logs offline*

and so on.



Glad you asked Timmy.

A really large group of people only want it the easy and fast way. If they don't get what they wanna they get depressive and accusing others for their own lazyness.

Either progress really fast or don't progressing at all. That's the motto nowadays ;s

The End

brutikusiv wrote: »

Read between the lines. It's simple. The game needs a serious rework. APS brought melee's into endgame bliss. Everyone else got cookies . Oh wait no cookies...

Where's my cookies ?

I legit thought this **** was a necro.

Did you hear that a black man is president of the US now, too?

Revenge - Raging Tide wrote: »

because barbs dont get -int on their r9. bm's dont yo :O fact is, you can build a barb with -int for the same cost as a bm, and have insane hp at the same time. and use axes if you chose. hell i know a barb who transfers his bm's -int gear to his barb, uses tt100 axe instead of fists and still has 35k hp in tiger form. it's all about how you want to do your equips tbh.

I know I can build another set of gear to have -int. I just really dont want to spend the coin to build it, that's why I made the flip suggestion that they add int to barb gear. But you are right, for the amount of tanking a Barb does after 100, a smart person should just build the light armor with int bonuses built in and go farming.