APS Making casters obsolete in high instances

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

thumbs wrote: »

-That ability was discovered after. The result of aps was intentional. It was capped at 5 long before we even got there.

This is interesting. How you could know that, when 5 APS was unable to get? Only archer with rank 8 could have 5 APS none else. And without packs and sale rep. a few people would have rank 8 even today.
200000k rep is extremely hard to get in normal way.
And pls don't tell 5APS was able to get for other classes before packs, because is not true.
If you want to know what gear was possible to get. Here is the page with old gear in PWI.
http://janelh.wikidot.com/dusk-equipment You can browse all gear what was available at that time.
5APS could be capped any time later, because we don't know what is in patches.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Revenge - Raging Tide wrote: »

because barbs dont get -int on their r9.

Yes we do.



Barb can have 5.0 while using R9 chest, legs, wrist, boots. 2 TT99 pdef orns, scroll of tome, and TT100 fists/nirvana claws. Oh and lunar cape ofc.



Which brings me to my other point, I dunno why people are saying barbs and clerics. Barbs can easily get 5.0 and compete in the DPS arena.





Aps makes casters useless in high instances.


Casters make aps users (other than sins) useless in high PK

Sins are just OP

I also remember wizards being left out of old TT squads when herc veno's would squad with each other, sometimes a cleric. I love how wizards complain about APS as if people really wanted wizards before for farming.

This x 10


I see so many mages talking about how back in the day they were able to farm. News flash, they weren't. No one wanted a mage. No one.


TT squads before packs make high APS viable TT squads consisted of a bunch of venos with hercs. One of the most common TT squads was 5 herc venos and an archer with level 10 sharptooth.


Mages were considered useless.

BMs were considered useless.

Barbs we're considered useless and only taken if the TT had a boss that couldn't be tanked by a herc (like 2-3)

Clerics were only taken if the TT had a boss that did significant AOE damage or had a boss that couldn't be tanked by a herc




Venos were king of TT. Squads were 5 herc venos and one archer. If a barb + cleric was needed due to a boss that herc couldn't tank then it was barb, cleric, archer, 3 herc venos. BMs and mages were considered useless.


The ONLY REASON a mage or BM was ever taken to TT was because back then leveling was slow and so you didn't have a lot of people to choose from all the time, so if no one else was available you would take a mage or BM.

Okeano - Harshlands

angel_spawn - Sanctuary wrote: »

why Obsolete, What Doesn`t Allow Casters To Make A Squad Themselves + A Barb? The

Answer Is Casters Want Also To Finish The Instance Faster With Apsers!

+9001

Escorian - Dreamweaver

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This is interesting. How you could know that, when 5 APS was unable to get? Only archer with rank 8 could have 5 APS none else. And without packs and sale rep. a few people would have rank 8 even today.
200000k rep is extremely hard to get in normal way.
And pls don't tell 5APS was able to get for other classes before packs, because is not true.
If you want to know what gear was possible to get. Here is the page with old gear in PWI.
http://janelh.wikidot.com/dusk-equipment You can browse all gear what was available at that time.
5APS could be capped any time later, because we don't know what is in patches.

the ability to get 5 aps has been here since lunar times. you could get all the gear almost that we have now by just farming it.

Revenge - Raging Tide

Dethprowl - Raging Tide wrote: »

I know I can build another set of gear to have -int. I just really dont want to spend the coin to build it, that's why I made the flip suggestion that they add int to barb gear. But you are right, for the amount of tanking a Barb does after 100, a smart person should just build the light armor with int bonuses built in and go farming.

your missing my point entirely, you can build your MAIN gears, as in TT99wrists boots/nirvana pants and chest with cube neck and warsong belt get a love up and down tome and guess what if u get deicides or better your 5aps at demon. and still use an axe as your primary weapon without even adding for the claws and get more than enough hp. im not saying use that as secondary armor but as PRIMARY. hell u can even use r9 pieces if you wanted and still have the option of switching to claws for the aps if u wanted to. (not that you have to.)

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yes we do.

i know you do. it was sarcasm. my point was the guy was saying barbs dont have -int for end game. i was pointing out barbs get -int on r9 whereas bm's do not. and r9 is end game.
its called sarcasm lolb:chuckle

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

the ability to get 5 aps has been here since lunar times. you could get all the gear almost that we have now by just farming it.

Lunar glade is not so old as you can think.
http://fw.perfectworld.com/news/?tag=patch-preview
This patch with lunar changes came out. 20-01-2010

Aubree - Dreamweaver

Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

the ability to get 5 aps has been here since lunar times. you could get all the gear almost that we have now by just farming it.

SoT is pack only item, you cannot make it in game. Readily available Best Lucks & red mat packs (forget what they are called) made TT100 fists available. Lunar was very hard to farm, so until packs no one had farmed the deicides. Has since been modified.Trophy mode made LG capes available without packs, but you can't complete it without -int anyway. We now have rep sales but before packs no one had r8. Tokens made that possible.


I do agree that 5aps was supposed to be obtained, but not as easily as it is right now.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

SoT is pack only item, you cannot make it in game. Readily available Best Lucks & red mat packs (forget what they are called) made TT100 fists available. Lunar was very hard to farm, so until packs no one had farmed the deicides. Has since been modified.Trophy mode made LG capes available without packs, but you can't complete it without -int anyway. We now have rep sales but before packs no one had r8. Tokens made that possible.


I do agree that 5aps was supposed to be obtained, but not as easily as it is right now.

SoT may be pack only but Pan, Gu Creator isn't and can be farmed in game. Several lunar weapons (usually bows) had been farmed prior to the pack release and even if packs didn't come out then farming lunar weapons would be a piece of cake these days thanks to the lunar remake. TT99 chest + boots HA, TT99 wrist + belt LA, Pan Gu, creator tome, Even if you can't farm lunar trophy mode you can get a -int cape from FB79 trophy mode, lunar claws and you got a 5 aps BM without any pack items.

HellWariorB - Raging Tide

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

SoT may be pack only but Pan, Gu Creator isn't and can be farmed in game. Several lunar weapons (usually bows) had been farmed prior to the pack release and even if packs didn't come out then farming lunar weapons would be a piece of cake these days thanks to the lunar remake. TT99 chest + boots HA, TT99 wrist + belt LA, Pan Gu, creator tome, Even if you can't farm lunar trophy mode you can get a -int cape from FB79 trophy mode, lunar claws and you got a 5 aps BM without any pack items.

As Rawrgh said 5 APS was possible even before and don't forget there were at the beginning the TT100 fists with -0.1 int, 69 trophy mode cape, TT99 bonuses, and Up and Down, Pan Gu tome but before the aps craze, Lunar WTLG, Lunar Claws, all these items were expensive as hell.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

SoT may be pack only but Pan, Gu Creator isn't and can be farmed in game. Several lunar weapons (usually bows) had been farmed prior to the pack release and even if packs didn't come out then farming lunar weapons would be a piece of cake these days thanks to the lunar remake. TT99 chest + boots HA, TT99 wrist + belt LA, Pan Gu, creator tome, Even if you can't farm lunar trophy mode you can get a -int cape from FB79 trophy mode, lunar claws and you got a 5 aps BM without any pack items.

Except that pre-packs, you couldn't make Pan Gu, Creator.

The forges only had tomes up to Level 5.

Pannelo - Heavens Tear

It's not their intended job.

To say that a Barbs intended job is not to tank is rediculous. That's like saying a Clerics intended job is not to heal.

If you look at any game it basically comprises of the same make up and classes. Tank, Healer, Damage (phys) and Damage (Nuker.) Every class would fall into one of those catagories in every online game and PWI would have been no different when it was launched. These lines have now been blurred by PWI with APS and making some classes less popular to play or being played as not intended.

To fill this shortfall they release new classes to try and make up for the shortfall (seeker as new tank and Mystic as new healer) neither of which can do the job of their predecessor classes and gives them even less of an end game role. Would you rather have a Barb or a Seeker? A Mystic or Cleric? I'm not saying that Seeker and Mystic suck only they are jack of all trades and master of none.

Rather than the 4 categories I mentioned earlier, PWI basically has 3. DD (phys) which are now the tanks, DD (Nuker) and Healer. The only way to play as a tank is to play as a DD. Whether it is better or worse this way doesn't matter. The fact still remains that it is no longer a balanced game.

Ophida - Dreamweaver

I say PWI need to throw a physical immune mob randomly into nirvana Before you attack, I took the "if you can't beat them, join them" approach to this **** and made an assassin. The caster's role in the game is less and less these days. Fun to play, as useful as a chocolate teapot in most instances though - Rebirths/TW/FC aside. And the icing on the cake? Bloodpaint is the new cleric 8D!

Lorann - Raging Tide

lol interesting. I can already see the kinda response i'll get to this if i get one... so here goes. I'm a caster ... born and bred. always have been always will be. I honestly don't understand the need for APS, as in, why was it put in game? x.X I personally feel it's pretty damn arrogant of the copious amounts of APS DD's who only want APS DD's in their squads for whatever objective because - well it's arrogant, they don't give a **** about who needs what, just so long as they get what they want in the shortest time possible. Yes QQ, I have a hard time getting into super fast APS squads QeffinQ. I really don't care so long as i get a squad -.-

Anyone else find it dead boring going into a boss fight only to see it's millions of HP chomped down in under a minute (or w/e)??? Call me old fashioned but i wouldn't mind a bit of tactic there, maybe someone has to survive something, maybe there's enough time in the fight to notice that certain members have cast or recieved debuffs or nearly died or idk... APS seems a big-money/no-brainer thing that doesn't particularly appeal to me, please explain why i'm wrong here if I am. Guess that's an arrogant PoV but hey ho.

Now let's say the max possible APS will always be 5.0. Let's also say they put in something like... CPS (2 casts per second? xD) then raised the lvl cap to... 150? Stuffed the game full of ridiculously hard content... THEN i would understand this APS ****.

Wow rant yay. APS doesn't make casters obselete but it does put us to shame some what, especially with the mindset of many of the people holdin' APS toons...

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Except that pre-packs, you couldn't make Pan Gu, Creator.

The forges only had tomes up to Level 5.

This.
People forget very easily when they want support their mistaken theory.
Here is what you could get. NO more tomes than lv. 5. So NO !!!! PAN GU tome.
http://janelh.wikidot.com/charms

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

5.0 before pack sale



http://www.pwcalc.com/f36c376b4bde4f41

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

5.0 before pack sale



http://www.pwcalc.com/f36c376b4bde4f41

I don't think trophy mode was available back then but there is a Lunar gold cape you could farm with -int.

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

Lorann - Raging Tide wrote: »

I honestly don't understand the need for APS, as in, why was it put in game?

It's actually not intended... more like a mistake.. b:laugh
But it makes money, so probably they think it doesn't have to be fixed.

Lythianaa - Dreamweaver

moonusagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

it's Actually Not Intended... More Like A Mistake.. B:laugh
But It Makes Money, So Probably They Think It Doesn't Have To Be Fixed.

Packspackspackspackspackspackspackspackspackspackspackspackspackspackspackspackspackspackspackspackspackspackspackspackspackspackspackspacks

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

5.0 before pack sale



http://www.pwcalc.com/f36c376b4bde4f41

You kidding right?
1. No cape was possible to obtain. Didn't exist.
2. Did you check chest armor? It's for ASSASSINS ONLY. Rank armor. So NO other class could use it.
3. The first pack come out exactly on first anniversary of PWI. When come out tideborn expansion? I think after packs.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=547522
Check date.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I don't think trophy mode was available back then but there is a Lunar gold cape you could farm with -int.

Lunar cape come out far later.
Check date on patch.
http://fw.perfectworld.com/news/?tag=patch-preview

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You kidding right?
1. No cape was possible to obtain. Didn't exist.
2. Did you check chest armor? It's for ASSASSINS ONLY. Rank armor. So NO other class could use it.
3. The first pack come out exactly on first anniversary of PWI. When come out tideborn expansion? I think after packs.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=547522
Check date.

1. You could get The lunar one.
2. Armor of the Assassin is Archer Rank 4 armor. For an Assassin, it's called Counterstream Armor.

The problem with getting 5 aps would be TT100 and the Lunar Cape.

And even without that, you COULD still reach a fairly high APS. Heck, a BM with just TT99s and TT100 fist is looking at 3.33 aps. An Archer could obviously reach even higher: Rank 8 chest, TT100 fist, TT99 LA wrist + boots, TT99 HA ornaments = 5 aps.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You kidding right?
1. No cape was possible to obtain. Didn't exist.
2. Did you check chest armor? It's for ASSASSINS ONLY. Rank armor. So NO other class could use it.
3. The first pack come out exactly on first anniversary of PWI. When come out tideborn expansion? I think after packs.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=547522
Check date.

http://www.pwdatabase.com/items/12663


God you're stupid. That's the rank 4 chest for archers.



As for the link you keep posting to patch preview. That's for the REWORK of lunar. Lunar was out since day 1, it was just insanely hard to run. I remember some archer in CQ got the first lunar weapon in the game I believe.





Link fixed, 5.0 sparked before packs were released


http://www.pwcalc.com/f30e972eb80c0cb4

Decus - Dreamweaver

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

God you're stupid.

I just ignore everything he says, he's a moron. Kinda wish he would pack up and leave already. I may not like the state the game is in, but I cannot stand people that repeatedly "leave" only to come back and whine for attention.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

http://www.pwdatabase.com/items/12663


God you're stupid. That's the rank 4 chest for archers.



As for the link you keep posting to patch preview. That's for the REWORK of lunar. Lunar was out since day 1, it was just insanely hard to run. I remember some archer in CQ got the first lunar weapon in the game I believe.





Link fixed, 5.0 sparked before packs were released


http://www.pwcalc.com/f30e972eb80c0cb4

Did you read all my posts? I said EXCEPT ARCHER. None except archer could get 5 APS. So no BM, no Barbs.
Ok my bad I didn't recognize archer armor, because assasin has the same just other name. But as I said no other class except archer could get 5 APS. Archer could get 5 APS with rank 8 armor. None1 else.

Also read this patch. Lunar cape was NOT available when game started it was ADDED later.

From patch Patch Preview (01/20/10)
Trophy Mode - New modes for the Lunar Glade have been added. Players must complete Frigoris Valley, Insularum Valley, and Nubium Valley to gain access to Trophy Mode.

Single Player Mode - Players can attain shards, fragments, and crystals through this mode. No quest pre-requisites are necessary to enter.

Team Mode - This mode now has three options. Players can choose from Imbrium Valley, Smythii Valley, or Cognitum Valley. All three instances contain different bosses.

- Team Mode requires 3,000,000 coins to enter. The party leader must pay this fee before the team can begin.

- Monster difficulty in Team Mode has been reduced. Monster drops have been modified as a result.

- Removed the hidden boss.

- Soulgems will no longer drop from this instance.

- Removed Neo-Deity Mode.

- Two new Level 13 robes have been added to Lunar Glade. Both can be manufactured using Lunar Glade molds and materials.
This is the cape what you posted.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I just ignore everything he says, he's a moron. Kinda wish he would pack up and leave already. I may not like the state the game is in, but I cannot stand people that repeatedly "leave" only to come back and whine for attention.

And I "love" betrayers who's changing their char, just because of game unbalances. The players who just give up their character and pick 5APS because it apparently easier.

Decus - Dreamweaver

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And I "love" betrayers who's changing their char, just because of game unbalances. The players who just give up their character and pick 5APS because it apparently easier.

Gave up my cleric due to RL (and cause I suck as a cleric anyway), not aps, my good sir. Do not think to know my intentions b:bye

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Did you read all my posts? I said EXCEPT ARCHER. None except archer could get 5 APS. So no BM, no Barbs.
Ok my bad I didn't recognize archer armor, because assasin has the same just other name. But as I said no other class except archer could get 5 APS. Archer could get 5 APS with rank 8 armor. None1 else.

Also read this patch. Lunar cape was NOT available when game started it was ADDED later.

From patch Patch Preview (01/20/10)
Trophy Mode - New modes for the Lunar Glade have been added. Players must complete Frigoris Valley, Insularum Valley, and Nubium Valley to gain access to Trophy Mode.

Single Player Mode - Players can attain shards, fragments, and crystals through this mode. No quest pre-requisites are necessary to enter.

Team Mode - This mode now has three options. Players can choose from Imbrium Valley, Smythii Valley, or Cognitum Valley. All three instances contain different bosses.

- Team Mode requires 3,000,000 coins to enter. The party leader must pay this fee before the team can begin.

- Monster difficulty in Team Mode has been reduced. Monster drops have been modified as a result.

- Removed the hidden boss.

- Soulgems will no longer drop from this instance.

- Removed Neo-Deity Mode.

- Two new Level 13 robes have been added to Lunar Glade. Both can be manufactured using Lunar Glade molds and materials.
This is the cape what you posted.

LUNAR MODE WAS AVAILABLE FROM DAY 1, THAT CAPE WAS AVAILABLE FROM DAY 1.

- Two new Level 13 robes have been added to Lunar Glade. Both can be manufactured using Lunar Glade molds and materials.

-interval lunar cape DOESN'T USE MOLDS

using Lunar Glade molds and materials.

The 2 mentioned were completely different.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

LUNAR MODE WAS AVAILABLE FROM DAY 1, THAT CAPE WAS AVAILABLE FROM DAY 1.





-interval lunar cape DOESN'T USE MOLDS





The 2 mentioned were completely different.

Indeed, the cloaks mentioned would be any two out of Buddha Light Cloak, Solar Flash and Phoenix Dance, all of which can be turned into Nirvana capes for LA, HA and AA. The -interval cape is Lunar: Mantle of Radiance. Then again, none of those use "Molds". They use Armorcores.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

LUNAR MODE WAS AVAILABLE FROM DAY 1, THAT CAPE WAS AVAILABLE FROM DAY 1.





-interval lunar cape DOESN'T USE MOLDS





The 2 mentioned were completely different.

OMG read official patch notes. And NO they weren't from day 1.
http://fw.perfectworld.com/news/?tag=patch-preview
Also you can check here what capes were obtainable.
http://janelh.wikidot.com/moon-valley-manteau
It has just different names. The lunar cape from beginning were pretty crappy.

Quilue - Sanctuary

What's the big deal? You can permaspark with 4.0 anyway.