Gorenox or Deicide for Archer

Daodark - Sanctuary
Daodark - Sanctuary Posts: 10 Arc User
edited July 2011 in Archer
ok since majority of the time physical classes(except seekers) are required to have mid-high aps now days, i would like to post this and ask some opinions on fists/claws for archers. I've read a few other threads and some say Gorenox Vanity is the better way to go, but it seems everytime i try to get in FCC, people ask if i have Deicides.

So....Gorenox Vanity or Deicides? b:surrender

I'm planning on restatting at 100 to restat to whichever fist/claws and using the r8 bow to sell my HS for the coins for Deicide or Gorenox.

Thanks to all who post their opinions and its greatly appreciated.
Post edited by Daodark - Sanctuary on
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Comments

  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    GV. Not only does it take less str to use it, but the proc helps with healing you AND can potential out-damage Deicides depending on the refines.

    Plus, it's fairly cheaper and with Deicides, you have no control of the HP reduction/EXP loss effect... not to mention that said effect doesn't matter when you do want it because, y'know, sharptooth/blood vow and all.

    The only real drawback to GV is you need an extra 0.05 int compared to Deicides to get the same APS with it.
  • HexOmega - Dreamweaver
    HexOmega - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,342 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    i always thought deicide outdamage the **** fc fists
    taking into consideration that you have more str as well = more damage? idk



    ..get striking dragons or g15 fists without any int attribute,
    you dont even need a -int tome and still have 5.0 without -int on fists

    how about sage "r6" fists? http://pwcalc.com/7db54241e53a75b8 (dont look at the character str, i was lazy)
    150~mil?

    OH TEH $HITTY FIST ARCHER OF DOOM (ok i just like the name of them, they suck actually)
    i like potato
  • Saay - Sanctuary
    Saay - Sanctuary Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Heres where im confused.So if i give up almost 3 lvls of dex for str,im gonna hit harder?(no sarcasm,confused)this is if i give up my vanities for deicides.i really want to hear other archers opinions on this.it seems like evry archer on my server is getting deicides at 95.to me it doesnt make sense.
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=915992
  • Daodark - Sanctuary
    Daodark - Sanctuary Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Saay - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Heres where im confused.So if i give up almost 3 lvls of dex for str,im gonna hit harder?(no sarcasm,confused)this is if i give up my vanities for deicides.i really want to hear other archers opinions on this.it seems like evry archer on my server is getting deicides at 95.to me it doesnt make sense.

    Well...Dex adds atk to your bow and Str adds atk to your fist/claws so the more dex, the harder your bow hits and the more str, the harder ur fist/claws hit. Since all physical classes are being switched to aps classes due to fast vana runs at 100+, your required to have deicides or GV, although most ppl prefer Deicides.

    This is why i put up this post, to get some opinions on GV and Deicides.
  • fuzzywuzz
    fuzzywuzz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Daodark - Sanctuary wrote: »

    So....Gorenox Vanity or Deicides? b:surrender

    Fuzzy must be out of touch with the times....


    Who ever heard of an archer using a bow!! b:shocked
    Need to talk to Fuzzy?
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  • Daodark - Sanctuary
    Daodark - Sanctuary Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    FuzzyWuzz wrote: »
    Fuzzy must be out of touch with the times....


    Who ever heard of an archer using a bow!! b:shocked

    b:chuckle
  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    FuzzyWuzz wrote: »
    Fuzzy must be out of touch with the times....


    Who ever heard of an archer using a bow!! b:shocked

    fuzzy playing the wrong game then b:bye
  • _blood_rain - Sanctuary
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    FuzzyWuzz wrote: »
    Fuzzy must be out of touch with the times....


    Who ever heard of an archer using a bow!! b:shocked
    Imo,These kinds of posts are really unnecessary in these kind of threads where an archer is trying to adapt to the state of the game and simply seeking advice.

    Anyway I have encountered this argument as well in planning what to do for my fists/claws. Personally I decided I'll go for deicides in the future. Why? Well it is more economical. Because of deicides higher -int bonus, you will need less pieces to be 5.0, and I do plan to leave that space open for better ornaments :]. With GV it's a bit harder to hit 5.0, however, If money came more easily for me, I would probably go with GV considering how helpful the theoretical near-perma proc is for a class that doesn't get BP.

    Also fyi, you don't actually have to restat too many points into strength to wear fists if you get rings(band from heavens jail for example)/tome with strength adds. All depends on you. I would suggest playing with calc and asking knowledgeable archers on your server whom you trust :o Then deciding based on your own resources/situation/priorities/ etc.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Personally I liked the greater gear flexibility with the deicides and the option of recasting them into Nirvana G13 or G15. Deicides have somewhat higher damage but not significantly so. The heal proc on GV is nice but I don't feel it is really a replacement for having well-refined pdef ornaments. The biggest downside with deicide is a higher str requirement though it needs less str than tt100 fist or g13 claw.

    Deicides probably do get you more respect than GV since BMs use deicides and 5.0 archers are thought of as BM substitutes.

    There are pros and cons on both sides and it comes down to preference. Hopefully one day daggers will be all-class weapons and we can throw away the stupid fish alts.
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  • Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear
    Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,681 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »
    fuzzy playing the wrong game then b:bye

    he plays the correct game , just others are lazy and greedy
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  • CraistiniRO - Raging Tide
    CraistiniRO - Raging Tide Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    all archers use deicide cuz of APS,geronex hit harder but whit a difference of 1APS i say deicide
  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    CraistiniRO - Raging Tide wrote: »
    all archers use deicide cuz of APS,geronex hit harder but whit a difference of 1APS i say deicide

    Most archers use :

    TT99 boots
    TT99 wrists
    TT99 HA neck
    TT99 HA Belt
    R8 chest
    Lunar TM cape.

    That by itself with either weapons is 5.0 sparked, unsparked claw/fists damage sucks anyway.
  • SashaGray - Heavens Tear
    SashaGray - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,765 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    CraistiniRO - Raging Tide wrote: »
    all archers use deicide cuz of APS,geronex hit harder but whit a difference of 1APS i say deicide

    how did you get in here >:O
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  • Amup - Raging Tide
    Amup - Raging Tide Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    FuzzyWuzz wrote: »
    Fuzzy must be out of touch with the times....


    Who ever heard of an archer using a bow!! b:shocked

    No, you just seem "old school" like me.


    -- Archers used bows/crossbows/slingshots

    -- Barbs used heavy wep and have a lot of vit and str

    Won't start a debate as it is my personnal opinion, but almost 1/2 server (if not more) is now with the mentality : Faster is better, saves time, make money faster, get OP faster, get bored faster...
  • _blood_rain - Sanctuary
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Amup - Raging Tide wrote: »
    No, you just seem "old school" like me.


    -- Archers used bows/crossbows/slingshots

    -- Barbs used heavy wep and have a lot of vit and str

    Won't start a debate as it is my personnal opinion, but almost 1/2 server (if not more) is now with the mentality : Faster is better, saves time, make money faster, get OP faster, get bored faster...

    Fuzzy is trolling. There's no debate here except for the one the OP brought to question which is : deicides or gorenox?

    He's asking for advice on which weapon to choose. An innocent question. If people do not like archers adapting to make themselves more efficient in pve, they can go to general section and post with the daily QQ's. This is the archer subforum ffs.
  • Decus - Dreamweaver
    Decus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Fuzzy is trolling. There's no debate here except for the one the OP brought to question which is : deicides or gorenox?

    He's asking for advice on which weapon to choose. An innocent question. If people do not like archers adapting to make themselves more efficient in pve, they can go to general section and post with the daily QQ's. This is the archer subforum ffs.

    +1

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  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    In theory vanity's are nice for an archer because they have a major disadvantage being LA and not able to be given the 'sin BP buff, and the vanity's do have the heal proc, but using it on my archer for a while it doesn't proc enough to be able to heal enough to where it means anything. If a boss is going to kill you the procs aren't going to be enough to save you. I will second whoever said getting enough defence and HP is going to be a better idea, but also add that because of -int on fists plus their bonuses any fist archer might as well go sage for the reduction, especially if they are already 5 APS unsparked. Also, killing the thing faster will certainly help. Deicide claws obviously do more damage than vanity's, or you can just go with the TT100 fists. Vanity's are also for an archer who doesn't have as much strength -- therefore, if you're one of the few archers who is statted just about entirely dex with bare min str requirements and can make up the strength for vanity's then by all means.
  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Deicide claws obviously do more damage than vanity's

    Actually no, even at +10 Vanitys are still pretty similar to Deicides
  • _blood_rain - Sanctuary
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Actually no, even at +10 Vanitys are still pretty similar to Deicides

    similar but still more :)
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Actually no, even at +10 Vanitys are still pretty similar to Deicides
    At minimum damage they come fairly close, but "actually no" is wrong, because Deicide claws are more damaging, especially at peak damage, and we get to +11/+12 and whoops, also have more interval to boot, before factoring in soul infect. Please don't even try to make these two weapons on par. I have a preference for Vanity's myself on my archer over Deicide and TT100 that I pair with them when doing Nirvana/BH/RB, but being realistic, it isn't going to kill a boss any faster, and it doesn't proc enough to heal of much significance at all, which was the point of that post.
  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    At minimum damage they come fairly close, but "actually no" is wrong, because Deicide claws are more damaging, especially at peak damage, and we get to +11/+12 and whoops, also have more interval to boot, before factoring in soul infect. Please don't even try to make these two weapons on par. I have a preference for Vanity's myself on my archer over Deicide and TT100 that I pair with them when doing Nirvana/BH/RB, but being realistic, it isn't going to kill a boss any faster, and it doesn't proc enough to heal of much significance at all, which was the point of that post.

    This is the archer forums, soul infect does not matter since we have STA.

    The proc heal might not be significant enough, but the proc damage is. Revenge is on for 8 seconds? During that time all your attacks are given an extra 50% weapon attack.
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »
    This is the archer forums, soul infect does not matter since we have STA.

    The proc heal might not be significant enough, but the proc damage is. Revenge is on for 8 seconds? During that time all your attacks are given an extra 50% weapon attack.
    You would lose 5-7 seconds of attacks switching to bow to STA. This is the archer forums.
  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    You would lose 5-7 seconds of attacks switching to bow to STA. This is the archer forums.

    In what situation would soul infect proc be a massive advantage?

    Boss fights should begin with STA/BV...
    Mob fights doesn't last long enough with rank and Jone's for them to get into melee range
    PvP should not require fists, and anyhow, 16%(20% sage/18% BV)>10%
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »
    In what situation would soul infect proc be a massive advantage?

    Boss fights should begin with STA/BV...
    Mob fights doesn't last long enough with rank and Jone's for them to get into melee range
    PvP should not require fists, and anyhow, 16%(20% sage/18% BV)>10%
    Who said it would be an advantage? "Before factoring in soul infect" was the iteration. I didn't put soul infect on some grand pedestal, it seems this is something you're trying to use to make into a strange point that Vanity's will kill a boss faster than Deicide's.
  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Who said it would be an advantage? "Before factoring in soul infect" was the iteration. I didn't put soul infect on some grand pedestal, it seems this is something you're trying to use to make into a strange point that Vanity's will kill a boss faster than Deicide's.

    I think Vanitys will not be slower at killing a certain boss unless it's above +10.

    The way you were marketing Soul Infect proc seemed like you were suggesting somehow it would benefit in a fight.
  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Deicide > Vanity, i've no idea why you're still talking about it. "but it comes clos-" No.
  • homerthekinguk
    homerthekinguk Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Why do all you archers thing you need to go APS, OMG really if you want to do APS go do a bloody BM, and ARCHER uses Bows, NOT bloody fist/claws. If you really want to go aps and havey armur just do a bloody BM, if you not willing to use the bow What the hel is the point in even have ARCHER in the game? ARCHERS use arrows not ******* Fist/claws, and before you all go QQ. I dont care, due to the fact BM's are used for claws/fists.

    ALL of the fist/claw archers are FAIL dont care if you 105 or lvl 1. you ARE FAIL. Ow im so looking forward to everyone try to expalin the reason. BUT at the end of this if you want aps go do a bloody BM Not and archer. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

    Common then lets here your season for moaning at me and saying im QQ. See if you can change my mind. Ummmmm thats just not going to happen.
  • homerthekinguk
    homerthekinguk Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Just use a bloody BOW, what archers use, look at the old time, archers shooot arrows, not punch people Grrrrrrrrr
  • Decus - Dreamweaver
    Decus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    homerthekinguk wrote: »
    Common then lets here your season for moaning at me and saying im QQ. See if you can change my mind. Ummmmm thats just not going to happen.

    No one will try to change the mind of someone so obstinate. Archers use fists/claws to make themselves more viable in PvE. If you don't like it, um, tough cookies?
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
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