Possible 5 APS for Seekers?

13

Comments

  • Hexalot - Dreamweaver
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver Posts: 871 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    BeingSpencer - Raging Tide wrote: »
    On RT, I already maxed APS for seeker with one of my armor sets. It's 2.86, but in nirvana I out aggro 5.0.

    You mean you out aggro those 5.0s who have very little to no refines on their claws/daggers or while they are sparking (and hence not dealing damage to boss).

    It's pretty much a given that the best geared Seeker will not out aggro 5.0 Bms or Sins with highly refined G-13/15 weapons (and lets not even talk about those R9 daggers).
  • BeingSpencer - Raging Tide
    BeingSpencer - Raging Tide Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    You mean you out aggro those 5.0s who have very little to no refines on their claws/daggers or while they are sparking (and hence not dealing damage to boss).

    It's pretty much a given that the best geared Seeker will not out aggro 5.0 Bms or Sins with highly refined G-13/15 weapons (and lets not even talk about those R9 daggers).

    Hate to break it too you bud, but they had high refines as well. It was stated before, until you do the build yourself, until you attempt it yourself, you have no hard reasoning to say what you say / Back it up.


    And please don't take this as me raging, but seekers have the Dph and Dps in their attacks, Great PvE, and you still can go back in forth with Spike damage for pvp.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Unchallenged, Cool Story Bro.
  • ReMakaBo - Archosaur
    ReMakaBo - Archosaur Posts: 845 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    want to achieve more DPS? simple, get -chan gear. Cheaper too,
    re
  • Hexalot - Dreamweaver
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver Posts: 871 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    BeingSpencer - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Hate to break it too you bud, but they had high refines as well. It was stated before, until you do the build yourself, until you attempt it yourself, you have no hard reasoning to say what you say / Back it up.

    Right... so in Nirvana you as Seeker with 2.86 aps out damaged highly refined 5.0 Sins, am I right ?

    Well then with that kind of dps, people should be out there on WC literally begging Seekers to join their Nirvana squads. After all, who wouldn't want a Seeker in their squad with the ability to out damage a class that was understood up to now to have the highest single target damage per second in the game ?

    So when exactly was that title transferred to Seekers again ?

    And please don't take this as me raging, but seekers have the Dph and Dps in their attacks, Great PvE, and you still can go back in forth with Spike damage for pvp.

    Oh no doubt Seekers have great DPH. I've seen some screen shots of your damage and it truly is insane. You've basically put Wizzies on the unemployment line when it comes to things like Delta. :-)

    But the fact of the matter is that your DPS (even at 2.86) pales in comparison to well geared 5.0 melees. I'm a 5.0 aps Bm using Regicides (+12). And with the handy dandy damage calculation formula I've found over on the Archer forums, my average raw damage PER SECOND is roughly 145K. And since I'm perma-sparked, that means I can average that amount of damage every second INDEFINITELY.

    And just so you know, Sins with highly refined second cast daggers hit for upwards of 200K per second so by no means am I anything special in the world of "end game" 5.0 aps.

    So my point still stands. No way did you out aggro the 5.0 Sins and/or BMs in your squad (outside of 5.0 spark time/Sins & BMs getting sealed/random aggro by boss) unless the "highly refined" weapons they were carrying happened to be lvl 80's hook and Thorn/Gorenox.
  • Mor_Toran - Sanctuary
    Mor_Toran - Sanctuary Posts: 457 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Although a melee-type class, the majority of a seekers damage output is through the skills, not **** and slash like BM's and Sin's.

    Why? because we're more battlemage.

    Why would you even attempt to go APS? It does nothing to benefit the class.

    Quit trying to play everything like it's a damn BM and learn how to play the classes.
    "No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style." - Steven Brust, Yendi

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Yeah, I'm that good. b:chuckle
  • Randamu - Harshlands
    Randamu - Harshlands Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Mor_Toran - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Why would you even attempt to go APS? It does nothing to benefit the class.

    Quit trying to play everything like it's a damn SIN and learn how to play the classes.

    Yup yup.
  • Mor_Toran - Sanctuary
    Mor_Toran - Sanctuary Posts: 457 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    LOL yeah or that.
    BeingSpencer - Raging Tide wrote: »
    ....(I also have a pure spike damage Nirvana blade so I'm not just aps)

    Also, what the hell is a "pure spike damage nirvana blade"?

    What the hell is Spike damage? you talking about the Proc from Revenge?

    Or are we calling Crits "spike damage" now?

    How is it pure?
    "No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style." - Steven Brust, Yendi

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Yeah, I'm that good. b:chuckle
  • BeingSpencer - Raging Tide
    BeingSpencer - Raging Tide Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Mor_Toran - Sanctuary wrote: »
    LOL yeah or that.



    Also, what the hell is a "pure spike damage nirvana blade"?

    What the hell is Spike damage? you talking about the Proc from Revenge?

    Or are we calling Crits "spike damage" now?

    How is it pure?

    Forgive me for that, using a wow term. Anyways........ To the few posts after me, If you read my post completely took a moment to think about it, and then reply to it, you'd notice I said it's great for farming. I still play my seeker like any other seeker out there, as a matter of a fact I have multiple 9x seekers. I have a lot of builds, tbh I prefer this one over all else.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Unchallenged, Cool Story Bro.
  • CatManDoo - Dreamweaver
    CatManDoo - Dreamweaver Posts: 214 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    BeingSpencer - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Hate to break it too you bud, but they had high refines as well. It was stated before, until you do the build yourself, until you attempt it yourself, you have no hard reasoning to say what you say / Back it up.


    And please don't take this as me raging, but seekers have the Dph and Dps in their attacks, Great PvE, and you still can go back in forth with Spike damage for pvp.

    Can u please post your gear useing pwicalc (with both weps).

    also aps in pwe isnt fail at all, but for pvp/tw dph is much better. i personaly have only full r8 set, so no extar aps at all.
  • Mor_Toran - Sanctuary
    Mor_Toran - Sanctuary Posts: 457 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    BeingSpencer - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Forgive me for that, using a wow term. Anyways........ To the few posts after me, If you read my post completely took a moment to think about it, and then reply to it, you'd notice I said it's great for farming. I still play my seeker like any other seeker out there, as a matter of a fact I have multiple 9x seekers. I have a lot of builds, tbh I prefer this one over all else.

    I'm not knocking what you've said, aside from the fact that attempting to go APS on a class that wasn't designed for APS is kinda fail. I was really curious about what spike damage is, how it pertains to the nirvana blade in particular, and what defines it being pure?

    ~~~~~

    I've spent most of my MMO days playing either a Battlemage, Wizard, Rogue, or a Monk/Druid. I'm pretty familiar with the separation of classes and the need to play each of them differently.
    I'm also aware that the old days of Dungeon-mastering are pretty much over and today's generation only knows how to point and shoot, and has absolutely no appreciation for the finer art of actually playing a class the way it was designed. Much less learning how to play well and intermix with other classes.

    In the end, it's like CatManDoo says, and it's not just PvP, but PvE as well....
    APS doesn't matter one iota. It's DPS that you want to be concerned with, IF you're planning on being the tank. (Something that many Sin's, Psy's and Wizards have failed to realize). Plainly put, Seekers are built for massive DPS with near-arcane damage numbers using our skills.

    You can't use skills AND have APS, the two just don't work together. It's like mixing water with oil. Since the DPS of the seeker relies a lot on the skills, by attempting to go APS, you're effectively nerfing your damage output by trying to be a pure melee class and not using it. As it is, (at a mere level 44 with a limited number of the skills available), I do 2-4 times more damage with my skills than I do just sitting and whacking at something.
    What's the point of hitting for 1/3rd the damage barely twice as fast, when you don't use any of the debuffs or chains that make the seeker class what it is? I mean really, and I've said this before.... It's been shown that the max available APS Seekers can manage is around 2.33. AND that in order to do it, you have to go with a LA build that will lower your damage output. AND not only are you going to lower you damage output by nerfing your stats, but you're also going to nerf it even more by ignoring the skills that make this class what it is.

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Learn to play the class the way it was meant to be played and stop trying to make it something it isn't. Seekers aren't APS. Seekers aren't Sin's. Seekers aren't BM's. We are, however, quickly replacing barbs, but we don't yet have the aggro skills and definitely don't have the HP. (Word is, that's coming in a future patch, they are currently beta-testing an upgrade to Seeker and Barb aggro mechanics.)
    "No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style." - Steven Brust, Yendi

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Yeah, I'm that good. b:chuckle
  • CatManDoo - Dreamweaver
    CatManDoo - Dreamweaver Posts: 214 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    i,m pretty sure he outdamages any DPH build seeker with his APS one in nirvana/tt

    its very close-mind to say that that APS on seeker is usless or even bad. Just if u are going for APS build u loose bit def and dph damage, but with good ref lvls difference isnt much

    if i ever get r9 and i have maxed it, i think geting other APS gear set isnt so bad at all.
  • Allisandre - Sanctuary
    Allisandre - Sanctuary Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    CatManDoo - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    ... but with good ref lvls difference isnt much

    I love how people always throw this in.

    With the same refine levels, the gap becomes huge again. Sure, you can +10 a weap and armor so that you can beat a standard +5 and say, "look, I'm better and this does indeed work" all you want.

    But when the other matches your refines, you're still sucking just as much as you were before when you compare again.

    Have to agree with Mor there. Everyone needs to learn how to play their freaking class. Not just Seekers either. I run into venos my level that are totally clueless about Purge, Amp, and Lending hands, Clerics that can't purify, and so on. It's like everyone tries to make their toon fit into this little cookie cutter mold that doesn't fit their abilities.
    Take the time to look for your answer before you post like an idiot.

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  • CatManDoo - Dreamweaver
    CatManDoo - Dreamweaver Posts: 214 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    well he said, that he have sword for DPH also

    so only comparing armor:

    DPH buffed version: http://pwcalc.com/91b97566fc1982c4

    HP 18046
    Physical Atk. 1769-1769
    Critical Rate 23%
    Attack Lv. 39
    Defense Lv. 24
    Physical Def. 16020
    Elemental Def. 8289


    APS buffed version: http://pwcalc.com/6a6b2ccf4f7dd5c0

    HP 17931
    Physical Atk. 1763-1763
    Critical Rate 20%
    Attack Lv. 39
    Defense Lv. 15
    Physical Def. 14778
    Elemental 6915


    yes, DPH build is better for surviving, but u still have kick-*** stats with APS build + doing doing very well on PWE.

    so APS build isnt fail, specialy from PWE aspect
  • ProtocoI - Harshlands
    ProtocoI - Harshlands Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    CatManDoo - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    well he said, that he have sword for DPH also

    so only comparing armor:

    DPH buffed version: http://pwcalc.com/91b97566fc1982c4

    HP 18046
    Physical Atk. 1769-1769
    Critical Rate 23%
    Attack Lv. 39
    Defense Lv. 24
    Physical Def. 16020
    Elemental Def. 8289


    APS buffed version: http://pwcalc.com/6a6b2ccf4f7dd5c0

    HP 17931
    Physical Atk. 1763-1763
    Critical Rate 20%
    Attack Lv. 39
    Defense Lv. 15
    Physical Def. 14778
    Elemental 6915


    yes, DPH build is better for surviving, but u still have kick-*** stats with APS build + doing doing very well on PWE.

    so APS build isnt fail, specialy from PWE aspect

    He's partially right on this on, right now APS build is actually a good build to play with due to lower cost and whatnot but by the time R9 comes out for Seeker, this build will prove to be utter garbage, to say the least.

    But he's right, you could do that till 100, farm your stuff but dont buy books for demon (omg ew) switch up with after you farm your refines and shards for rank 9, switch to Sage and.... game over b:bye
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • supertroyman1
    supertroyman1 Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Allisandre - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I love how people always throw this in.

    With the same refine levels, the gap becomes huge again. Sure, you can +10 a weap and armor so that you can beat a standard +5 and say, "look, I'm better and this does indeed work" all you want.

    But when the other matches your refines, you're still sucking just as much as you were before when you compare again.

    Have to agree with Mor there. Everyone needs to learn how to play their freaking class. Not just Seekers either. I run into venos my level that are totally clueless about Purge, Amp, and Lending hands, Clerics that can't purify, and so on. It's like everyone tries to make their toon fit into this little cookie cutter mold that doesn't fit their abilities.

    lol might as well just let him play the way he wants. if it ends up comming back to bite him in the *** then he can deal with it then.

    to answer previous post the only reason alot of ppl arnt asking for seekers in nv is cuz there very close minded on how they do things. once they actually have a good experience in nv with seeker theyll change a bit. and i dont care about the 5 aps bm/sin is automatically faster run argument. the prospect of inviting a seeker is from a debuff standpoint not dps standpoint.
  • supertroyman1
    supertroyman1 Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Mor_Toran - Sanctuary wrote: »
    ~~~~~
    I mean really, and I've said this before.... It's been shown that the max available APS Seekers can manage is around 2.33. AND that in order to do it, you have to go with a LA build that will lower your damage output. AND not only are you going to lower you damage output by nerfing your stats, but you're also going to nerf it even more by ignoring the skills that make this class what it is.

    QUOTE]

    um max aps is 2.86. and wtf do u mean LA build only 2 peices of LA they would need r necklace and belt. and if u took to secondes to realise that he said he maid multiple 9x seekers with different builds ud reailize that that means hes seeing witch one works best for him and how each build affects gameplay. i think hes doing the smart thing and testing them all. if EVERYONE plays the game the exact same way then it gets boring and concepts like aps seeker become like the dark side of the moon.
  • Nockzk - Harshlands
    Nockzk - Harshlands Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Ok here I go, I have APS Gear and i like using it. I have not yet try it out in Nar. I would like too if would be fun to see if i coould keep my def bufs up and still do aps damg. Ok the dmag out put is about 7-8k with monsters that are 110 and crt with 16-21 k i am aps about 1.56 then go up to 2.26 i think with geine and i am sage. it works when i 3 spark and def buff 20 def lvls then genie skill to incer. my aps then for 10 sec i am a aps seeker that is amazing.

    I tried it out and i would tell you now it is just for fun to have aps not worth getting to use in pvp yet pve it works ok with. I one time took down a barb when i could not with my heavy gear. It is perrty cool when you go aps and they are like "wtf happen you just speeded up atking.

    So keep you gear and go aps just for fun and some thing with bosses to keep def buff on them.


    Nockzk, Seekers RULE!!!!!
  • Yuniryu - Raging Tide
    Yuniryu - Raging Tide Posts: 516 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    So even if seeker get 2.86 aps still wont get into nirvy because most players want 3aps +, so why waste time trying to get 2.86aps in the first place lol.b:cute

    Like Mor says, if you want aps make bm and sin, cause even with 2.86aps people wont take you for nivana, which is the whole point of aps in the first place.b:laugh.

    I cant believe this dumb thread is still up, and people trying. So funny!b:laugh.

    Till i still an actual difference and people searching for 2.86aps seeker its pointless for me to even consider lol.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Valkyrie_Sw - Archosaur
    Valkyrie_Sw - Archosaur Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    aps seekers...huh?
    if you're overly obsessed to aps whole craps then roll a sin
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
  • nerrizz
    nerrizz Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Pointles I thinkb:pleased
    I am great. So great, you won't even understand it(C)b:pleased
    **** you. That's it(C)b:shocked
    I Love My Pants(C)b:cry
  • GilgamCly - Raging Tide
    GilgamCly - Raging Tide Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    LordKeen - Archosaur wrote: »
    I was looking on PW Calc and there is a possiblity for a 5 APS for the Seekers:

    http://pwcalc.com/ea225601aa241a1a

    There's a slight chance to get interval between attacks with this sword...

    I do not think there is any equipment to make it possible to get 5 APS. Besides using the int gear you tried would weaken you to much for physical damage. That does not mean maximising APS is not a bad idea it just needs to keep a precise balance between attack and defence.
    Rise to Become Mighty so on the Wings of the Leviathan We will Soar....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun The frumious Bandersnatch!" He took his vorpal sword in hand: Long time the manxome foe he sought -- So rested he by the Tumtum tree, And stood awhile in thought. And, as in uffish thought he stood, The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame, Came whiffling through the tulgey wood, And burbled as it came!--Poem part by: Lewis Carroll
  • PheosNyx - Sanctuary
    PheosNyx - Sanctuary Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    -facepalms at topic-
    The shatters make seekers more designed for skill spamming and if you want to aps go roll a bm/archer/sin <.< x_X
    Ling__Tong 101 bm ~ PheosNyx 103 wiz ~ Arande 100 HArcher ~ xXxKuro 100 barb ~ AnselTyme 101 cleric ~ lukeFONfabre 96 seeker ~ Tori_Anzu 90 mystic ~ KateiiHimura 95 veno ~ Artemaeus 58 psy. Playing since April 2009.
  • Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver
    Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver Posts: 441 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    ^ and also, necro b:bye
    Ebrithalia -Sage Seeker
  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    PheosNyx - Sanctuary wrote: »
    -facepalms at topic-
    The shatters make seekers more designed for skill spamming and if you want to aps go roll a bm/archer/sin <.< x_X

    such a flawless argumentb:cute
    you only purge once #yopo
  • OontzOontz - Dreamweaver
    OontzOontz - Dreamweaver Posts: 782 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    such a flawless argumentb:cute

    Seems pretty fail to me. Seekers don't really lose power as casters while using 5aps gear. Archers do.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    OontzOontz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Seems pretty fail to me. Seekers don't really lose power as casters while using 5aps gear. Archers do.

    well, aps gear would prevent a seeker from going full r9 (not that he cannot switch); anyway, it was sarcasm: design or lore is irrelevant to maximising dps
    you only purge once #yopo
  • Geshwur - Raging Tide
    Geshwur - Raging Tide Posts: 570 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Get at me bro.

    Albeit an EXTREMELY expensive option (that's beyond unlikely to all reasonability...)

    Still possible.
    Current Gears
    pwcalc.com/90f636550cbd5beb
  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Geshwur - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Get at me bro.

    Albeit an EXTREMELY expensive option (that's beyond unlikely to all reasonability...)

    Still possible.

    on my way!
    you only purge once #yopo
  • Geshwur - Raging Tide
    Geshwur - Raging Tide Posts: 570 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    on my way!

    Please dear god tell me that's not your actual gear... o.o
    Current Gears
    pwcalc.com/90f636550cbd5beb
  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Geshwur - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Please dear god tell me that's not your actual gear... o.o

    no... i changed my mind
    you only purge once #yopo
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