A perishing class???

Yorkin - Dreamweaver · July 2011

Not that I mean disrespect to other Psychics and Seekers, but... it has been a while since these two classes have been introduced to PWI. With Psys having fast channeling, they really overan the Wizards. I don't know much about Earthguard since I quit shortly after the release of Genesis, but I have been wondering...

With Psy fast channel and Seekers have those... something-like pets... are Wizards (and perhaps Venos) going to be... flushed out???

CORRECTION:

Third option should be "Not sure". - missing "t" there, sorry.

Aurores - Heavens Tear · July 2011

Yorkin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Seekers have those... something-like pets..

I lol'd so hard at this.

Yorkin - Dreamweaver · July 2011

Aurores - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I lol'd so hard at this.

I apologize if I insulted you b:surrender... I am just not into game that much b:shutup. Thou... I was considering of coming back.

Aurores - Heavens Tear · July 2011

Yorkin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I apologize if I insulted you b:surrender... I am just not into game that much b:shutup. Thou... I was considering of coming back.

Nah, you didn't insult. I just found it amusing that you confused the Seeker class with Mystic. b:chuckle

QueenOfNukes - Heavens Tear · July 2011

A properly geared wiz with -54% channeling is a terrorist in TW. The top people in TW factions are usually wizards, followed by clerics and BMs. Of course, we're talking about people who know their skills and stuff.

I honestly don't think any class would die out. They would become very rare. Just look at wrld chat and how people spam teles looking for clerics and barbs. The APS craze is strong.... Some classes are going to be cast aside, but if played right, anyone is wanted.

Yorkin - Dreamweaver · July 2011

Aurores - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Nah, you didn't insult. I just found it amusing that you confused the Seeker class with Mystic. b:chuckle

Right... LOL. Dumb me... Too long have I not played. And what you, O Queen ^^, say might be just right. Perhaps, I should've asked question, how frequently do new players choose wizard class.

Adroit - Lost City · July 2011

QueenOfNukes - Heavens Tear wrote: »

A properly geared wiz with -54% channeling is a terrorist in TW. The top people in TW factions are usually wizards, followed by clerics and BMs. Of course, we're talking about people who know their skills and stuff.

I honestly don't think any class would die out. They would become very rare. Just look at wrld chat and how people spam teles looking for clerics and barbs. The APS craze is strong.... Some classes are going to be cast aside, but if played right, anyone is wanted.

you need -54% channeling to be "properly geared"? News to me

flamesofblue · July 2011

Wizards will never die out completely, you have people like Adroit who will stick around forever it seems.

VoItaire - Harshlands · July 2011

I don't think it's really possible for a class to die out, but wizard has always kinda been one of the less popular classes, at least since I have been playing(two days after tide expansion, go figure). Really, I don't think psychics or seekers(or perhaps you meant mystics?) are the reason that the class has become more scarce. I think it's because wizards are probably the most defenseless class to assassins, which just happen to be the class that populates the game most b:surrender At least that's the reason I switched from my wizard to my mystic...

But sins aside, wizzies can be very scary in pvp, aside from the couple fail ones I've noticed in pvp areas lately who just poke out of sz to cast an ulti, and when it fails to one shot, they shrink back to sz or die... Wtf is up with that? b:lipcurl

Menarin - Dreamweaver · July 2011

VoItaire - Harshlands wrote: »

I don't think it's really possible for a class to die out, but wizard has always kinda been one of the less popular classes, at least since I have been playing

Playing a wizard without hyper babying it is like playing PWI on hard mode. That's why most people don't play wizards and those that do hyper baby are usually (90%) not that great at the class and end up quitting.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver · July 2011

what do you do as a wizard when u reach 10X?

zyean · July 2011

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

what do you do as a wizard when u reach 10X?

Make a 5.0APS char or a veno and earn money for your wizard

thumbs · July 2011

zyean wrote: »

Make a 5.0APS char or a veno and earn money for your wizard

5aps isn't cheap: Playing a wiz is.

I just bid ~10m coin for Sage Mountain's Seize on HT and won. -Starting bid was 5m. Unlikely we'd be paying so much for a dead class. I'm fairly negative towards wiz's, but still felt S.MS was worth it.

VoItaire - Harshlands · July 2011

Menarin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Playing a wizard without hyper babying it is like playing PWI on hard mode. That's why most people don't play wizards and those that do hyper baby are usually (90%) not that great at the class and end up quitting.

I don't think this is very true anymore. I never hypered at all on my wizzy till 8x when I started doing FC, and honestly, it wasn't much harder than lvling my cleric. Mobs are a non-factor especially if you actually kite. And the lower lvl instances I'm sure are much more difficult for the tanks and healers, cause they have to put up with more ****.

It really isn't very hard to lvl in this game even with just bh, crazy stone, tide quests, etc. And pvp at low lvls isn't recommended for most classes anyway.

Noelarg - Lost City · July 2011

i hav a 76 wizard and i agree... i cnt do bh's, fcc(frost), and finding a gamma squad is really hard b:surrender, wizards cnt do things they used to do anymore becoz they hav been replaced!!! and archers hav the same problem as wizards since assasins came...

ITS UNFAIR!!!!!!!b:angry

Yorkin - Dreamweaver · July 2011

Noelarg - Lost City wrote: »

i hav a 76 wizard and i agree... i cnt do bh's, fcc(frost), and finding a gamma squad is really hard b:surrender, wizards cnt do things they used to do anymore becoz they hav been replaced!!! and archers hav the same problem as wizards since assasins came...

ITS UNFAIR!!!!!!!b:angry

now that you mention archers, i don't remember seeing them so often as well. if they would just re-balance the classes somehow. althou, i haven't got a single idea how that re-balancing should be done.

thumbs · July 2011

Lol@ not getting into BHs. I get in for about half the WC's I see which is pretty close to how it is with my Assassin. I'd bet it's harder for an Assassin to get into a full RB squad than it is for a Wizard to get in a BH.

Many people seem clueless on this APS fad. Not everyone with Claw, Daggers, Fists is a great DD. There are so many fails out there like Claw Assassins. I was just on my veno and ran C2D Abaddon with 2 Assassins, a Barb, and a Wiz. 2 Assassins and I needed MP pots for last boss as a VENO because they're dd was so bad! Not everyone can afford the high cost of 4 base aps.

There are some AoE oriented Barbs around that WC for BH SoT/Aba. Casters are the best lurers for BH Metal as long as the melee classes know they need to jump on the Dinos right away. -Forget that lure runners 1 by 1 ****: they are 1-3 hit kills and easily tanked by range classes.

If you really want to get into squads: Impress people! Don't be the annoying range DD that pulls mobs away from melee while they're sparking, or the one that grabs aggro on AoE bosses. -That stuff gets you on my **** list. There's one wiz that I'd prefer to Nirvana with over a random squad. He's a wiz at the chests on the last boss using distance shrink. More reliable for the pups than BMs on the other boss. Doesn't cause squad wipes or interrupt melee's perma spark by moving bosses (random aggro). -That's the kind of wiz you want to be! -(I'm not that great a wiz btw but I know how it is being a priority for people on my other toons).

DaKillanator - Raging Tide · July 2011

Oh look, another person that thinks they know our class. Let's break it down.

QueenOfNukes - Heavens Tear wrote: »

A properly geared wiz with -54% channeling is a terrorist in TW.

Lolwut? If you have that much -chan then it's because you've sacrificed your phys ornies for mag def -chan ones. In which case you die if a r8 archer even targets you.

QueenOfNukes - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The top people in TW factions are usually wizards, followed by clerics and BMs

Clerics are important, and I don't know what your thought process was for bm to come in 3rd, but the next most important players would either be cata barbs or psys/archers if you wanna stick to the game changing DD theme.

QueenOfNukes - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I honestly don't think any class would die out. They would become very rare. Just look at wrld chat and how people spam teles looking for clerics and barbs.

Also not true. Let's do some math sha'll we?
A squad consists of 6 people. A barb and a cleric take up 2 spots in the usual squad, so that leaves 4 people. These 4 people are going to be DDs, and because there is 4 times as many DD classes as there is barb/clerics, there's going to be a lot of squads that can fill up on DDs, but not enough barbs and clerics to join every squad.
For instance- clerics and barbs are faaaar more popular than wizards, but you wouldn't know that at first because a wizard is hardly missed if they're not in a squad- simply replace them with a psy/seeker.

QueenOfNukes - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The APS craze is strong.... Some classes are going to be cast aside, but if played right, anyone is wanted.

You got this one right. Even though casters (wizards) might never be especially wanted in 5aps squads, we can still get into good Nirv squads if we prove to be skillful.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver · July 2011

thumbs wrote: »

Lol@ not getting into BHs. I get in for about half the WC's I see which is pretty close to how it is with my Assassin. I'd bet it's harder for an Assassin to get into a full RB squad than it is for a Wizard to get in a BH.

in 80% of the cases im the BH host, 2-3 spots are either faction or worldchat, worldchat class taken will be the class with a useful buff squad doesnt have yet (barb /bm /cleric) next in order are wizards for me xd last be sins and venos ( i dislike singletargeting)

Many people seem clueless on this APS fad. Not everyone with Claw, Daggers, Fists is a great DD. There are so many fails out there like Claw Assassins. I was just on my veno and ran C2D Abaddon with 2 Assassins, a Barb, and a Wiz. 2 Assassins and I needed MP pots for last boss as a VENO because they're dd was so bad! Not everyone can afford the high cost of 4 base aps. its 3.33 xd

There are some AoE oriented Barbs around that WC for BH SoT/Aba. Casters are the best lurers for BH Metal as long as the melee classes know they need to jump on the Dinos right away. -Forget that lure runners 1 by 1 ****: they are 1-3 hit kills and easily tanked by range classes. BH warsong and Aba are fun on wizard , very hard to get killed in BH Warsong as wizard, "NO PULLING! AOE ONLY!" *channeling BT before BB is setup* *sin dies* success!
(...)

pie 10chars

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver · July 2011

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

Oh look, another person that thinks they know our class. Let's break it down.

Lolwut? If you have that much -chan then it's because you've sacrificed your phys ornies for mag def -chan ones. In which case you die if a r8 archer even targets you.

He won't die to a r8 archer...

DaKillanator - Raging Tide · July 2011

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

He won't die to a r8 archer...

That's true.

But then if your spending that much on gear you're going to own in TW, irrespective of your channeling time.

thumbs · July 2011

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

pie 10chars

ingrish pl0x

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver · July 2011

Well the problem is people who play wiz should know that

a) the class is really expensive because you have to invest a lot in your gear to reach
at best the average performance of other classes

b) there is nothing special about wizards anymore because wiz doesnt do highest DPH nor has it the best constant aoe nor is it good for solo play. In 1v1 pvp wiz highly relies on genie in aoe pvp psychics can replace the wiz. So i guess one reason why people wont roll the class is that once they reached endgame they want to have a class that is usefull to some extent. I am not talking about people who want to be the best class I am talking about the average player who wants an answer on the question where are wiz best at and unfortunately the answer to this question is nowhere since every single application for a wiz can be done by other classes too so people say well i rather go with a class where the benefits and drawbacks are ok.

Personally i dont think that wizards will perish since there will always be people who got bored with their 105 sin who reroll for another class with sufficient funds to equip an endgame wiz just for fun. But the way it looks atm is that wiz has become a 2nd choice class and this wont change if PWI doesnt boost the old classes.

greetz harm0wnie

Adroit - Lost City · July 2011

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Well the problem is people who play wiz should know that

a) the class is really expensive because you have to invest a lot in your gear to reach
at best the average performance of other classes

b) there is nothing special about wizards anymore because wiz doesnt do highest DPH nor has it the best constant aoe nor is it good for solo play. In 1v1 pvp wiz highly relies on genie in aoe pvp psychics can replace the wiz. So i guess one reason why people wont roll the class is that once they reached endgame they want to have a class that is usefull to some extent. I am not talking about people who want to be the best class I am talking about the average player who wants an answer on the question where are wiz best at and unfortunately the answer to this question is nowhere since every single application for a wiz can be done by other classes too so people say well i rather go with a class where the benefits and drawbacks are ok.

Personally i dont think that wizards will perish since there will always be people who got bored with their 105 sin who reroll for another class with sufficient funds to equip an endgame wiz just for fun. But the way it looks atm is that wiz has become a 2nd choice class and this wont change if PWI doesnt boost the old classes.

greetz harm0wnie

We do have the highest magic dph due to our debuffs (undine + genie spark). Our aoes are also the best as you've admitted in the past. Wizards may not be as versatile as sins, but we do have our niche (although I'll admit it is narrow).

Yorkin - Dreamweaver · July 2011

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

We do have the highest magic dph due to our debuffs (undine + genie spark). Our aoes are also the best as you've admitted in the past. Wizards may not be as versatile as sins, but we do have our niche (although I'll admit it is narrow).

Yeah like whenb:angry ??? A sin once told me he is only impressed by high level wizziesb:sad

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver · July 2011

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

That's true.

But then if your spending that much on gear you're going to own in TW, irrespective of your channeling time.

b:surrenderWell geared...54% chan...I met the requirements.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide · July 2011

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

b:surrenderWell geared...54% chan...I met the requirements.

okay okay you got me :P

but tbh I havnt seen many wizzies geared like that, most have some **** ele def ornaments to get the chan as I'm sure you've seen

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver · July 2011

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

okay okay you got me :P

but tbh I havnt seen many wizzies geared like that, most have some **** ele def ornaments to get the chan as I'm sure you've seen

most chan based DW wizzies look like that or have r6 instead of r9 or nirvana weapon with 10% chan, 3% chan, 100 mag atk with 2 stone of savant :<

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver · July 2011

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

We do have the highest magic dph due to our debuffs (undine + genie spark). Our aoes are also the best as you've admitted in the past. Wizards may not be as versatile as sins, but we do have our niche (although I'll admit it is narrow).

I dont add undine in here because when i am in a party the psy benefits from undine the same way that I do. Furthermore a 12s defense reduction skill which is not aoe and therefore cant be applied to multiple targets can not be compared with 25att lvls passive working on every single attack aoe attack. Spark is nice for wiz that's right but it is still unfair when 1 class has to use a genie skill and burn stamina while the other class can reach the same dmg boost from passive skills. I simply remind you on your post about the awesome benefits from seekers debuff where you told us about your 300k dmg but at the same time you had to admit that the psy did 600k in the same situation.

For the aoes the ultis are not the problem but our non chi aoes especially hailstorm and will of the phoenix are because they have relatively long cooldowns. so when i got multiple mobs approaching me will of the phoenix -->hailstorm -->will of the phoenix --> hailstorm still in CD + will of the phoenix in CD A psy can more or less use aoe attacks without a break for chi or CD. I said our aoes have largest aoe range and the sideeffects are ok but come on for a 2 spark skill they have to. Even worse that psy 1 spark skills get compared to them.

Wizards are very versatile but the problem is that in todays pwi the "hidden strengths" of the wiz are not needed anymore. I mean who cares that i can tank easily elemental mobs in warsong with the elemental resistances and shells -->5 aps + bloodpaint also works. Have you ever tried to kill a normal mob solo in lets say SoT with a wiz? Even on lvl 100 you will have problems doing that uncharmed while a 90+ phys class can do it without problems and charmtick.

So please tell me more about that "niche" and answer me the question what can a wiz do that can't be done by another class ? ( except the larger range on the ultis)

greetz harm0wnie

Adroit - Lost City · July 2011

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I dont add undine in here because when i am in a party the psy benefits from undine the same way that I do. Furthermore a 12s defense reduction skill which is not aoe and therefore cant be applied to multiple targets can not be compared with 25att lvls passive working on every single attack aoe attack. Spark is nice for wiz that's right but it is still unfair when 1 class has to use a genie skill and burn stamina while the other class can reach the same dmg boost from passive skills. I simply remind you on your post about the awesome benefits from seekers debuff where you told us about your 300k dmg but at the same time you had to admit that the psy did 600k in the same situation.

For the aoes the ultis are not the problem but our non chi aoes especially hailstorm and will of the phoenix are because they have relatively long cooldowns. so when i got multiple mobs approaching me will of the phoenix -->hailstorm -->will of the phoenix --> hailstorm still in CD + will of the phoenix in CD A psy can more or less use aoe attacks without a break for chi or CD. I said our aoes have largest aoe range and the sideeffects are ok but come on for a 2 spark skill they have to. Even worse that psy 1 spark skills get compared to them.

Wizards are very versatile but the problem is that in todays pwi the "hidden strengths" of the wiz are not needed anymore. I mean who cares that i can tank easily elemental mobs in warsong with the elemental resistances and shells -->5 aps + bloodpaint also works. Have you ever tried to kill a normal mob solo in lets say SoT with a wiz? Even on lvl 100 you will have problems doing that uncharmed while a 90+ phys class can do it without problems and charmtick.

So please tell me more about that "niche" and answer me the question what can a wiz do that can't be done by another class ? ( except the larger range on the ultis)

greetz harm0wnie

You're seriously talking about pve? You've been around long enough you should know 99.99999999% of what I'm talking about is pvp related. Wizard's are USELESS in pve, stop trying to use your wiz for that. In the seeker buff discussion, we were comparing a +10 1st cast nv (with 50 vit and with pyrogram) vs a +12 r9 (pure int and with glacial shards). If I was comparing my damage to a level 30 psychic, you could also come to the conclusion that wizards do a ridiculous amount more damage than psychics. If you are going to compare, you need to use equivalent gear. Besides, nirvana bosses have hardly any mdef anyway.. so reducing horribly low resists to a little lower is hardly worth mentioning.

If you compare our single target DPH to that of a psychic.. you'll realize at end game we gain the edge. The big draw to psychics is that attack level, but when you have 100+ atk level with r9 gear, that extra 30 atk level in black voodoo for psychics ends up giving them closer to a 15% boost in damage, as opposed to the 30% when looking at 0 base atk level. Psychics can benefit from undine if they are on your side, but it's very limited being that they can't use the skill themself. Add in genie spark and they don't do the same damage as we do, or even remotely close. If you looked at my genie spark page you'd see that undine + genie spark (90 dex) will generally give between a 40% and 200% amp depending on the target.. FAR more of an increase in damage than black voodoo provides. We also don't lower our defenses to increase our damage.. which is a nice perk. As I've said over and over, wizards are for ranged aoe DPH, and have great single target DPH with our amazing debuffs.

thumbs · July 2011

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

You're seriously talking about pve? You've been around long enough you should know 99.99999999% of what I'm talking about is pvp related. Wizard's are USELESS in pve, stop trying to use your wiz for that.

3 Highly profitable instances where Wizards are useful: Warsong Metal, Rebirth, and Trophy Mode runs. I can't understand some of these melee toons that are still pulling runners 1 by 1 in Warsong Metal, and then ignoring the dinos when they should be melee tanking them and ignoring the runners. Of course any mage class can pull the groups to the Regeneration Aura, but wiz has a nice weak aoe (Hailstorm) to use as well as many fire spells (good against metal). What do aps have? -Nirvana? -Sorry but it's not as profitable as people make it out to be, and it's highly dependent on others.

A perishing class???

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