Best r9 class for TW?

245

Comments

  • So_Sick_Er - Raging Tide
    So_Sick_Er - Raging Tide Posts: 85 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Yep those R9 nixes really hurt! R9 purge is also insanely powerful. Don't get me started on R9 bramble D:

    lol this made my day
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    R9 psy is hands down the hardest thing to kill in a TW...especially the highly refined ones. I kill r9 wizards in TW by myself....
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    R9 psy is hands down the hardest thing to kill in a TW...especially the highly refined ones. I kill r9 wizards in TW by myself....

    The main aim in TW is not 1v1 but 1v many. And there is wizard better than physic.
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  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    The main aim in TW is not 1v1 but 1v many. And there is wizard better than physic.

    It takes 3 squads to kill xCurse on my server there is no wiz that needs that many. I don't care how many of your wizards come on and say "no" I've seen him tank 3 squads by himself with my own eyes. I've never seen any wizard even come close to that survivability along with hitting me for nearly 50k.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Amour - Lost City
    Amour - Lost City Posts: 1,825 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    You need a balance in TW. R9 Psychics are f*cking annoying end game, nearly impossible to kill... but I can also imagine myself in a full +11 r9 set with 70+ defense level trying to be killed in TW, odds aren't that high.

    I think Wizards are the anti-psychic, half of their skills are reduced cause of earth barrier, and we have high DPH (SoS = dps trololololol), as well as a half fire half physical ulti of which they have no active buff to defend against.

    R9 Psy vs R9 Wiz in tw = purge and blade tempest, psy is going down.
    "Amour is better suited to rainbow text, because he is a classy lady." - Nakhimov
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  • Sirrobert - Dreamweaver
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,395 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    The main aim in TW is not 1v1 but 1v many. And there is wizard better than physic.

    Actually it's many vs many

    If you try to solo the TW, you fail
    9 out of 10 voices in my head say I'm not crazy... the 10th is singing the music of tetris
  • Burnout - Harshlands
    Burnout - Harshlands Posts: 2,585 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    You guys make it sound like Black Voodoo is actually useful once you get R9, when in reality it's just a 10% or so damage boost when you have 93 attack levels. The defense level reduction also makes those JoSD's less useful.

    IMO wiz and psy are mostly equal in terms of usefullness in TW. Wiz are stronger if they are fed chi and use chi pots, so they have the higher potential. I've NEVER been 1-shot by even +10 R9 psys, but I consistently get hit for 8-20k from wizards. Undine strike is just flat out amazing, especially with the insane gears popping up nowadays. That spell alone gives wizards the upper hand in pure damage. I mean, for gods sake, undine alone removes over 4k m. def from arcanes. That's more m. def than some barbs have total. Take off your shirt + pants, then see how much harder you get hit from magic spells.

    People also forget that the psy's aoe's take 3 seconds to cast, with little way to reduce that time through -channel. If you just stand there doing nothing for that entire 3 second casting time, then yeah, your group deserves to die.

    One last thing. 8 meters in TW is honestly a joke. Wizard's 12m aoe's don't sound that significant, until you realize that it covers over double the surface area than the average psy's aoe. BIDS both hits harder and catches significantly more people in it's radius, and with -chan gears only takes around 1 second longer than a weak psy aoe.
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    What the hell is going on? 3 squads of what to kill an R9 Psy? 3 squads of people blindly spewing attacks like *******? Or is there a shred of coordination at all? It doesn't even take 3 squads to kill a R9 cat barb.
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • OiOOio - Raging Tide
    OiOOio - Raging Tide Posts: 180 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    _VENDOR_ - Lost City wrote: »
    pressing a single button to kill someone doesn't really show skill though.....


    Not really since you will need skill to avoid dying before using the ulti skill. b:victory
  • ReMakaBo - Archosaur
    ReMakaBo - Archosaur Posts: 845 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    What the hell is going on? 3 squads of what to kill an R9 Psy? 3 squads of people blindly spewing attacks like *******? Or is there a shred of coordination at all? It doesn't even take 3 squads to kill a R9 cat barb.

    I'll assume they are talking from perspective of 3 sub-par geared squads IE 9x gears, lvl ranged from 9x to 101ish. A r9 mentalfish could easily wipe them, no matter how much coordination they bring. And 3 full squads in a TW, can mean a huge chunk of force being sent back to the pad, via one mentalfish. A pshyc that actually knows how to play their class, could be like a Boss in a TW against a faction of low-end geared people.
    re
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    So would any ranged DD in that case...
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Arenaceous - Lost City
    Arenaceous - Lost City Posts: 632 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    There are some points you people are missing.

    1.) R9 vs. Non R9: Psychics do have weaker AOEs. That's a fact. Sandburst Blast, Glacial Shards and Red Tide both have 200% Weapon Damage as modifier. Earth Vector has 100%. The reason R9 Psys dominate against non R9 players more than wiz is because they do not really need higher modifiers to one shot. What's the difference between getting one shot for twice your HP or three times your hp? This changes once you fight people with similar gear to theirs.

    2.) Aoe Radius: An important part of TW is area control. A wizards Ultimate covers 2.25 times the area of a psys Sandburst Blast, Glacial Shards, Red Tide or Stone Smasher and actually 4 times the area of their Earth Vector. (This also goes for the wizards AOE Stun, Mountain Seize. Most people severely underestimate that ultimate).

    3.) Psys have to play in Black Vodoo to actually kill well geared opponents. That makes them far from unable to be killed. Hard, yes. Unable, no. Wizards always have Stone Barrier, which gives them a pretty balanced defense. Psys Pdef will always be pretty low.

    4.) Wizard ultimates have really useful additions. Speaking from the point of view of a sage wizard: One ultimate has a very nice crit buff, one ultimate deals physical damage and adds the base magic attack twice (which is insane with R9) and one has a 95% 6 second stun in an area four times as large as Earth Vector.

    5.) "But, but Stone Smasher makes Wizzies useless" Yes it's a nice skill in addition to the Psys other Aoes. It may or may not do more damage than a wizards ult with Black Vodoo on (Idk about that, but stacking even more Attack Levels afetr a certain point becomes pretty ineffective). But it still covers only 44% of the area a wizard ultimate does, it channels just as long and the effect on it is meh.

    My conclusion is: Yes Psy is an awesome class, way better than wizards in one on one and yes they are useful as heck in TW. BUT they do not make wizards useless. It's always better to have both wizards and psychics in an effective TW setup because tehy fill different roles and can actually work together pretty awesomely. (How about Undine a cata barb for a psy?)
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  • Heartstone - Dreamweaver
    Heartstone - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,338 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    What the hell is going on? 3 squads of what to kill an R9 Psy? 3 squads of people blindly spewing attacks like *******? Or is there a shred of coordination at all? It doesn't even take 3 squads to kill a R9 cat barb.



    I'll assume he means the average egared normal R8's and +5 armor and up to +10 R8 only. but yes it does not take 3 squads kill xCurse. about 2 or 3 good DD is enough.( by that i mean full r9 +10 wep or more)
    I'm sorry for misspelling / mistyping and grammar b:surrender

    102 - Archer - Heartz
  • So_Sick_Er - Raging Tide
    So_Sick_Er - Raging Tide Posts: 85 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Lawl..imma laugh my *** off when they implement earthguards' rank 9..and it will make wizards n psychics look weak compared to them.

    try killing a rank 9 seeker with 95 def lvl 95 attack lvl with 20k hp with 24k phy def n 11k mag def.....good luck people xD

    oh and i forgot.....seekers r the only class who have mag attack and have god of frenzy on their sword .....imagine zerk critting with mag atacks and phy attacks to a mass group in TW. oh and i forgot...gemini slash hits like a truck to arcanes and requires no spark....n is spammable every 15 secs...oh and talk about its range...
  • endlesstorture
    endlesstorture Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    It takes 3 squads to kill xCurse on my server there is no wiz that needs that many. I don't care how many of your wizards come on and say "no" I've seen him tank 3 squads by himself with my own eyes. I've never seen any wizard even come close to that survivability along with hitting me for nearly 50k.

    xCurse is a pro on her Psy, i saw 3 all geared +10 5 APS Sins vs xCurse once and he pwned themm all xD, i think 1 of them was Sinsatious
  • Sirrobert - Dreamweaver
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,395 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    So_Sick_Er - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Lawl..imma laugh my *** off when they implement earthguards' rank 9..and it will make wizards n psychics look weak compared to them.

    try killing a rank 9 seeker with 95 def lvl 95 attack lvl with 20k hp with 24k phy def n 11k mag def.....good luck people xD

    oh and i forgot.....seekers r the only class tht have god of frenzy on their sword .....imagine zerk critting with mag atacks and phy attacks to a mass group in TW. oh and i forgot...gemini slash hits like a truck to arcanes and requires no spark....n is spammable every 15 secs...oh and talk about its range...

    Eehm buddy.
    You need to recheck the rank9 weapons. ALL phys rank9 weapons have god of frenzy (exept archer, who purges everything)

    The 30 def lvl from seeker buf is truely awesome. Until you get purged, and than your a barb with lower HP.
    If you don't get purged, a full rank9 wizzy can still 1shot you, cause they still have more attack lvl than you have defence lvl

    EDIT: @endlesstorture: Psy's are specially build towards killing psy's.
    ALL theyr soul shields are perfect for getting a psy.
    8 sec phys imume makes sin useles. Soul of silence makes sin useles. Soul of vengence hurts the sin more than the sin hurts you (same as bramble but than stronger. Why you think most sins avoid brambled targets in TW?)
    9 out of 10 voices in my head say I'm not crazy... the 10th is singing the music of tetris
  • ReMakaBo - Archosaur
    ReMakaBo - Archosaur Posts: 845 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    If you don't get purged, a full rank9 wizzy can still 1shot you, cause they still have more attack lvl than you have defence lvl

    Depends on the seeker's sharding route.
    re
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    What the hell is going on? 3 squads of what to kill an R9 Psy? 3 squads of people blindly spewing attacks like *******? Or is there a shred of coordination at all? It doesn't even take 3 squads to kill a R9 cat barb.

    You seem to not realize how **** all difficult a full +12 r9 psy with reflect seals and everything else takes to kill. I hit xCurse for less then most BMs and I have my r9 weapon.

    EDIT: might I add xCurse actually knows what the hell he is doing....which is even more of a pain in the *** since he has that kind of gear.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Sirrobert - Dreamweaver
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,395 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    ReMakaBo - Archosaur wrote: »
    Depends on the seeker's sharding route.

    Full JoSD = 24*2=48 defence lvl.
    Bonus from rank9= 20 def lvl
    Buf = 32 defence lvl (lvl11)
    Total = 100 defence lvl

    Attack lvl:
    Rank9 bonus= 30
    Rank9 weapon = 30
    Jones blessing = 30
    Total WITHOUT shards = 90 attack lvl
    With full attack shards = 114 attack lvl

    You were saying?
    9 out of 10 voices in my head say I'm not crazy... the 10th is singing the music of tetris
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Full JoSD = 24*2=48 defence lvl.
    Bonus from rank9= 20 def lvl
    Buf = 32 defence lvl (lvl11)
    Total = 100 defence lvl

    Attack lvl:
    Rank9 bonus= 30
    Rank9 weapon = 30
    Jones blessing = 30
    Total WITHOUT shards = 90 attack lvl
    With full attack shards = 114 attack lvl

    You were saying?

    Both of those are wrong. A sin can full out go 185-190 can't remember exact, and you forgot to add 3 extra def lvls from sage lvl 11 seeker buff so 35 also any extras from g16 cube neck/belt is another 10.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Sirrobert - Dreamweaver
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,395 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Both of those are wrong. A sin can full out go 185-190 can't remember exact, and you forgot to add 3 extra def lvls from sage lvl 11 seeker buff so 35 also any extras from g16 cube neck/belt is another 10.

    How the hell does a sin hit 185 attack lvl?
    I can add 35 from sage chill of the deep, but can't really imagine where the rest have to come from (ofcourse, G16 cube neck also adds 5 attack lvl. So that's adding 40 points, making 154?)
    What did I miss?
    9 out of 10 voices in my head say I'm not crazy... the 10th is singing the music of tetris
  • So_Sick_Er - Raging Tide
    So_Sick_Er - Raging Tide Posts: 85 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    so ur saying a wiz is gonna shard DOT just to have more attack lvl than their opponent's defense level? haven't seen a single wiz go full DOT on their rank 9 gears yet...n if u do that, tht leaves u vulnerable to seeker's own attack lvl vs ur low def lvl...

    and show me which mag class has rank 9 with god of frenzy on em? lol
  • ReMakaBo - Archosaur
    ReMakaBo - Archosaur Posts: 845 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Full JoSD = 24*2=48 defence lvl.
    Bonus from rank9= 20 def lvl
    Buf = 36 defence lvl (lvl11)
    Total = 100 defence lvl

    Attack lvl:
    Rank9 bonus= 30
    Rank9 weapon = 30
    Jones blessing = 30
    Total WITHOUT shards = 90 attack lvl
    With full attack shards = 114 attack lvl

    You were saying?

    Fixed... But by all means, go full attk lvls,,, Makes you a definate one shot by anything else b:laugh


    Building a character based on a freebie from PWI? wowzers, thats BOLD move.
    re
  • SaiyanGohan - Lost City
    SaiyanGohan - Lost City Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    I just wanted to say LOL at care bear servers that don't know how to pk. There are a bunch of Psys in Lost City with full JOSD and +11/12 , that can be easily taken out with purge, and a triple sparked sin. Also, I have had experiences killing a fully buffed psy with JOSD and +11/12 in white voodoo with myself, another wiz, and another psychic, all of us with JOSD and +12 weapons. I have also seen R9 +12 Sins destroy fully buffed psys by using triple spark and an immune pot. Carebear servers sure as hell don't know how to pk for what it's worth.
  • DaichiOni - Dreamweaver
    DaichiOni - Dreamweaver Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    _Leif - Lost City wrote: »
    I don't see how this is even a discussion.. the buffs on a +12 psy can seal you and deal 5k+ reflect damage if you so much as make eye contact with them. Yes, wizzies have a higher potential damage and wider aoes, but psy aoes are infinitely more spammable and have little in the way of channeling.

    BIDS is a giant blue neon arrow that says: stun me or i kill you all in the 30 minutes it takes for me to finish casting this skill. Wizzies in tw hide behind the masses and pretty much try to build up enough chi for ulti's. Psys can run up, immune pot, fire off 4 or 5 aoes and wipe a DD squad.

    This is all while not even mentioning that psychics are infinitely more difficult to kill than wizards. Veno's can't purge them, you get insta-sealed when attacking them, and inevitably end up taking more damage from their reflect than you deal. The only time I managed to solo kill a full +12 in tw involved me sparking and domaining to avoid his reflect and seal buffs..

    If GMs made psy buffs purge-able, it might be a different story..

    EDIT: I haven't done the math, but I'm pretty sure stone smasher in black voodoo can out damage a wiz ulti.. It at least comes close to BIDS. Red Tide is a 50k+ DOT over 9 seconds, conveniently shorter than the time it takes for your charm to tick. Earth Vector has a 6 second stun (longest ranged stun in the game) that costs one spark and has a 20 second cooldown (sage has 50% chance to consume no chi). Psy will > earth vector > stone smasher > red tide > 27 more aoes > ironguard > 32 more aoes > earth vector > white voodoo and start over again. Psys > wizzies

    Demon mountain seize is the longest ranged stun. 35 meters.
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  • ReMakaBo - Archosaur
    ReMakaBo - Archosaur Posts: 845 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    SaiyanGohan - Lost City wrote: »
    I just wanted to say LOL at care bear servers that don't know how to pk. There are a bunch of Psys in Lost City with full JOSD and +11/12 , that can be easily taken out with purge, and a triple sparked sin. Also, I have had experiences killing a fully buffed psy with JOSD and +11/12 in white voodoo with myself, another wiz, and another psychic, all of us with JOSD and +12 weapons. I have also seen R9 +12 Sins destroy fully buffed psys by using triple spark and an immune pot. Carebear servers sure as hell don't know how to pk for what it's worth.

    Lol at people assumeing everyone on a PvE server has never been on a PvP server.


    Also, l2read entire topics before jumping on the tail end of discussions spewing random words.
    re
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    So_Sick_Er - Raging Tide wrote: »
    oh and i forgot.....seekers r the only class who have mag attack and have god of frenzy on their sword .....imagine zerk critting with mag atacks and phy attacks to a mass group in TW. oh and i forgot...gemini slash hits like a truck to arcanes and requires no spark....n is spammable every 15 secs...oh and talk about its range...

    From what I understand Seeker mag attacks are not capable of zerking.
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  • Burnout - Harshlands
    Burnout - Harshlands Posts: 2,585 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    So_Sick_Er - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Lawl..imma laugh my *** off when they implement earthguards' rank 9..and it will make wizards n psychics look weak compared to them.

    try killing a rank 9 seeker with 95 def lvl 95 attack lvl with 20k hp with 24k phy def n 11k mag def.....good luck people xD

    oh and i forgot.....seekers r the only class who have mag attack and have god of frenzy on their sword .....imagine zerk critting with mag atacks and phy attacks to a mass group in TW. oh and i forgot...gemini slash hits like a truck to arcanes and requires no spark....n is spammable every 15 secs...oh and talk about its range...

    Except for their meh 3.3 sec cast time ult nuke, seekers get some pretty lackluster damage bonuses. I've dueled a couple R9 BM's with +10 cleavers, and they hit for around 1.5-2.5k without crits. A lot of the seeker skills have similar bonuses as axe. Hardest I've ever been hit was 8.5k from a zerk crit dragon, but then that skill gets fairly decent modifiers. And if I had barb buff, I would have survived it.

    Keep in mind I don't have a single piece of Nirvana or R9 gear.

    If you're not fist or dagger or bow as a melee endgame, you can gtfo.
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  • So_Sick_Er - Raging Tide
    So_Sick_Er - Raging Tide Posts: 85 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    From what I understand Seeker mag attacks are not capable of zerking.

    Hmm..r u sure bt this? cuz with TT90 berserk sword, i think i zerked a lot
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    At +12 with a zerk rank 9 seekers still only have 1/2 the phys attack of an archer

    your zerk+ crit = archer crit
    Gifs are hard to make work here

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