QQ About Stealth

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  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    _Leif - Lost City wrote: »
    Stop whininggg

    I'd say at least 80% of the 'endgame' sins on our server have less than 6k pdef and 4k mdef, as the most common EG build is centered around 5 aps. Rank wizards hit me for 6k+ with non-ulti's, rank archers hit in the 3-4k range with normal attacks, and barbs/bms zerk crit in the 7k+ region. Focused Mind is not the most OP thing in the world, it only has a 25% proc rate. The chances of it activating 4 times in a row (as per your example) is less than .4%. Deaden Nerves works once, and after it procs our charm is also in cooldown. When I say a class 'can oneshot me repeatedly' I mean they can repeatedly do enough damage that is greater than my hp without sparking or using an ulti.

    Fighting Stealth 101
    Mystic plants have continuous aoe debuffs over a decent area that will unstealth sins. If you're continually moving you become a much harder target for the obvious headhunt + auto attack routine. Awareness pots exist for a reason. Long channel attacks (take aim, divine pyrogram, wield thunder) will unstealth sins if you start channeling them as the sin stealths.

    As for the whole "rank 9 sins are OP" argument... ALL RANK 9S ARE OP. Its well known that rank 9 gear is massively geared more to offense than to defense. Sins inherently benefit more from this as in 9/10 cases they can decide the first hit of the fight. In 1v1 pvp you're screwed (sins are the gods of 1v1 stealth or no stealth). That said, I have seen rank 9 barbs beat rank 9 sins on a few occasions (good barbs vs bad sins), though those are rare occasions. Assassins are meant to annihilate in single target situations but blow chunks in large scale pvp. Get used to it b:shutup

    Wow, what the ****, I already get to 6.5k PDef buffed, and 5k Mdef buffed. o.O And my sin is level 75.

    Hmm... Idea... HA Sage 22k HP cata sin. interesting idea... probably won't bother with it though.
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    truekossy wrote: »
    Yep. Condensed thorn is very useful for that psy will/expel.
    That's ****ed up. Well, at least now I can Bash through Expel.
    _Leif - Lost City wrote: »
    Stop whininggg

    I'd say at least 80% of the 'endgame' sins on our server have less than 6k pdef and 4k mdef, as the most common EG build is centered around 5 aps. Rank wizards hit me for 6k+ with non-ulti's, rank archers hit in the 3-4k range with normal attacks, and barbs/bms zerk crit in the 7k+ region. Focused Mind is not the most OP thing in the world, it only has a 25% proc rate. The chances of it activating 4 times in a row (as per your example) is less than .4%. Deaden Nerves works once, and after it procs our charm is also in cooldown. When I say a class 'can oneshot me repeatedly' I mean they can repeatedly do enough damage that is greater than my hp without sparking or using an ulti.

    Fighting Stealth 101
    Mystic plants have continuous aoe debuffs over a decent area that will unstealth sins. If you're continually moving you become a much harder target for the obvious headhunt + auto attack routine. Awareness pots exist for a reason. Long channel attacks (take aim, divine pyrogram, wield thunder) will unstealth sins if you start channeling them as the sin stealths.

    As for the whole "rank 9 sins are OP" argument... ALL RANK 9S ARE OP. Its well known that rank 9 gear is massively geared more to offense than to defense. Sins inherently benefit more from this as in 9/10 cases they can decide the first hit of the fight. In 1v1 pvp you're screwed (sins are the gods of 1v1 stealth or no stealth). That said, I have seen rank 9 barbs beat rank 9 sins on a few occasions (good barbs vs bad sins), though those are rare occasions. Assassins are meant to annihilate in single target situations but blow chunks in large scale pvp. Get used to it b:shutup

    So it's a double edge sword? You either not in stealth and "get one shotted repeatedly" or in stealth and kill someone before the game tells them you appeared. That tells you a lot about the thought they put in to make this class. But there's the fact that Sin is using the same armor and same build as Archer. Archer's got Wings of Grace, that's about it. They got range, but range doesn't really matter when you can tele 35 meters to someone for infinite amount of times with no cooldown. There's no question that your damage output is much more than Archer. So why are Archers even alive in PK without stealth instead of getting one shotted repeatedly? They don't even get a second chance to react with Deaden if someone BIDS them for 20k. So please, keep trying to convince me that Sins need stealth for it to be fair but Archer doesn't, even with twice as much disable skills as Archer and more damage output.

    As for group PvP, it depends on the fight. No, you can't AoE a bunch of people to death in one go so you are not an effective DD in group PvP. But when you are vastly out numbered, let's say... 5 to 1, to the degree that no other class should even bother trying to fight, you can still pick people off one at a time slowly, where as other classes will just have to sit and watch in SZ.
  • _Leif - Lost City
    _Leif - Lost City Posts: 369 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    So it's a double edge sword? You either not in stealth and "get one shotted repeatedly" or in stealth and kill someone before the game tells them you appeared. That tells you a lot about the thought they put in to make this class. But there's the fact that Sin is using the same armor and same build as Archer. Archer's got Wings of Grace, that's about it. They got range, but range doesn't really matter when you can tele 35 meters to someone for infinite amount of times with no cooldown. There's no question that your damage output is much more than Archer. So why are Archers even alive in PK without stealth instead of getting one shotted repeatedly? They don't even get a second chance to react with Deaden if someone BIDS them for 20k. So please, keep trying to convince me that Sins need stealth for it to be fair but Archer doesn't, even with twice as much disable skills as Archer and more damage output.

    As for group PvP, it depends on the fight. No, you can't AoE a bunch of people to death in one go so you are not an effective DD in group PvP. But when you are vastly out numbered, let's say... 5 to 1, to the degree that no other class should even bother trying to fight, you can still pick people off one at a time slowly, where as other classes will just have to sit and watch in SZ.

    I didn't really follow your argument..

    "Sins need stealth to pvp"
    First off, I never said sins NEED stealth to PVP (if you scroll a couple of posts up you'd see I'm a huge advocate of pvping without stealth in 1v1s).

    "Sins have the same survivability as archers"

    I don't know about your server, but I see far fewer archers in world pvp than I do other classes. The reason for this is non-event geared archers suck endgame. LA is by far the worst armor, and is only viable when you're full rank 9 or stacked in event gear. Very very few sins are full rank 9, as most prefer to have an -int build. Sure you can have two sets of armor and ornaments, but the majority of sins do not. Endgame gear for a sin is generally considered to be full int (with or without rank 9 daggers). Endgame gear for an archer is rank 9 or full nirvana.. You don't see pro archers pvping with hh 99 gear. If it weren't for our buffs, most sins would have the exact same survivability as crappy geared archers.

    BTW, with EG gear, winged shell can prevent oneshot skills quite effectively. The wiz would have to deal 5x the archers hp with one skill in order to kill him with an ulti.

    Picking off one person at a time and force stealthing is lame. If it ever comes to that point I just kill the one person I dislike most and then leave.

    Overall, sins DO NOT need stealth to pvp, but it's stupid that other classes continually complain about it when there ARE tactics to combat it. Sins are OP but lack survivability in anything but 1v1s. They have an extremely specific role in pvp. Everyone just needs to realize that and stop the QQ
  • YOURLIEZ - Archosaur
    YOURLIEZ - Archosaur Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    Because my BM existed long before Sins came out? And being an annoying a**hole in PK doesn't suit my style? I made the Sin on HL right when RT came out and no one knew what the class was going to be. Whatever you do on a Sin, whoever you kill, won't count because it's a broken class. It's a lot more fun to PK on BM than on Sin. If you want to play the easy mode of PK, that's your choice, but not my style.

    its not really THAT broken, i can make a genie (for an archer) that will counter just about everything a sin dose.o o ijs
    Duke: Let it be know that YOURLIEZ has rerolled to TF2
    Rest of the sever:.....Wait, what?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    YOURLIEZ - Archosaur wrote: »
    its not really THAT broken, i can make a genie (for an archer) that will counter just about everything a sin dose.o o ijs

    You can counter dying before knowing the Sins' there? You sure your Archer isn't a Psychic?
  • YOURLIEZ - Archosaur
    YOURLIEZ - Archosaur Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    You can counter dying before knowing the Sins' there? You sure your Archer isn't a Psychic?

    > > .....there a genie spell called expel.....it saves lifes....if you have an alt archer maybe you should get it b:victoryb:victoryb:victory
    Duke: Let it be know that YOURLIEZ has rerolled to TF2
    Rest of the sever:.....Wait, what?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    YOURLIEZ - Archosaur wrote: »
    > > .....there a genie spell called expel.....it saves lifes....if you have an alt archer maybe you should get it b:victoryb:victoryb:victory

    So you can expel someone 1-shotting you out of stealth before you're even aware they're there?

    Hot damn I want your pre-emptive reflexes!


    Oh and FYI, condensed thorn + stunlock > expel. If you have a brain, maybe you should consider it. (smileyspamgoeshere)
  • Angelstealth - Harshlands
    Angelstealth - Harshlands Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    RioNHale - Archosaur wrote: »
    R9 sin dosent even count in pvp, its a complete joke, everyone knows that the 4billion attack levels, gof and crits mean rarely any target survives an occult ice, or HH.

    R9 sin is always always expected to win, due to the fact that even R9 armour dosent match the weapon in any way.

    You a complete idiot if u think a sin is a one shot, considering they are the only class with dead nerves, and the 1, 1, 1, 1 damage taken skill, anti 1 shot skills.

    with equivelant geared classes, sin always has the upper hand due to stealthing, first hits, and retarted game mechanics/lag, allowing them to usually kill from stealth without damage even being tracked.


    what this game needs forreals is...

    A GODAMN GENIE DETECTION SKILL.



    Wiz is a 1 shot to sins, cleric is a 1 shot to sins, veno is a 1 shot to sins (unless ha, and we all know sins cut through that pretty damn fast), mystic is a 1 shot to sins.

    Seeker, bm and barb, are usually based on how many seconds of 2.86-5aps they can tank, usually R9 sins kill anything in under 5 seconds, not even the time of 1 of their multiple, different stuns.

    i've seen a r9 barb with a r8 weapon vs a r9 sin. both triple sparked, barb>sage and sin>demon. now i don't wanna qq but the barb easily face planted the sin.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Angelstealth - Harshlands wrote: »
    i've seen a r9 barb with a r8 weapon vs a r9 sin. both triple sparked, barb>sage and sin>demon. now i don't wanna qq but the barb easily face planted the sin.

    Because it was a fail Sin. He was too busy facerolling his spark button to stunlock the Barb. Sin is a class that just breeds failness.
  • Sneakret - Heavens Tear
    Sneakret - Heavens Tear Posts: 618 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Hate the player, don't hate the game

    Hate the game, not the player

    Hate em both and find something else to do, (you voted this option)



    You guys must have far too much time on your hands to be still bringing this up. Leif I'm with ya though on the pvp aspect of not using stealth (when I was still active on here). Just more fun that way I suppose. More of a rush to fight on equal grounds, in my case it was no stealth, no charm, and +3/4 gear with some apoth at times for gank survival.

    Never cared particularly for the must always win pvp aspect, that's why I was on a PvE server. I just liked having a good fight against another player where I might not win. \
    @Reds, welcome back I suppose. Hope you had a nice break after the last meltdown here
    I can see what you see not,
    Vision milky, then eyes rot.
    When you turn, they will be gone,
    Whispering their hidden song.
    Then you see what cannot be,
    Shadows move where light should be.
    Out of darkness, out of mind,
    Cast down into the Halls of the Blind.

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