QQ About Stealth
BloodFeast - Harshlands
Posts: 7 Arc User
Aright, some of you might know me and some might not, but I want to address an issue people have about assasins.
Everytime (well most times), i end up pking a person whose supposedly meant to be indestructable due to the amount of money he/she spent, they always use the punch line "GO HIDE IN STEALTH MORE". Now im not sure how many of you sins heard this lol... but i figured im gonna take the time to understand something...
Now an assasin with lets say good refines, good gear... has about 5-6k pdef (im saying in general).... our mdef is garbage and normally around 3-4k....
our hp is worst, and a FEW sins have over 10K hp...
My point is... we are mostly all 1 shots when facing op targets...such as a r9 archer, mage, cleric etc...so why the hell do ppl qq when we hide? They have more hp, they have heavy armour, they have r9 (talking about the very op ppl) i dont need stealth for most...so does anyone have a reason here that proves me wrong? cause seriously, lol "QQ much"?
Everytime (well most times), i end up pking a person whose supposedly meant to be indestructable due to the amount of money he/she spent, they always use the punch line "GO HIDE IN STEALTH MORE". Now im not sure how many of you sins heard this lol... but i figured im gonna take the time to understand something...
Now an assasin with lets say good refines, good gear... has about 5-6k pdef (im saying in general).... our mdef is garbage and normally around 3-4k....
our hp is worst, and a FEW sins have over 10K hp...
My point is... we are mostly all 1 shots when facing op targets...such as a r9 archer, mage, cleric etc...so why the hell do ppl qq when we hide? They have more hp, they have heavy armour, they have r9 (talking about the very op ppl) i dont need stealth for most...so does anyone have a reason here that proves me wrong? cause seriously, lol "QQ much"?
Post edited by BloodFeast - Harshlands on
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Comments
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Sins don't need stealth to be OP, they have many other benefits, such as buffs that prevent 1 shots(so no you are not mostly 1 shots at all), and buffs that make us do 1 damage on you....
And I could go on, but this topic is old and tired and best not to bring it up here anymore :<
It's kind of troll fodder b:shocked0 -
People whine because they lost. No other reason. Use whatever resources you have to gain whatever advantage you can. People just complain because they hope you will listen and gimp yourself. DON'T DO IT! Crush them into the dust and laugh. When they call you newb for stealthing, just ask them how does dirt taste![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks to Silvy for the awesome sig!0 -
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....I will sit and watch this....[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
People complain that you can hide because....they can't
Looks simple to meIam Segreta,Queen of the Chicken Kingdom,proud owner of the legendary Blue Chicken,BEHOLD Mortals o,o^
Current # Chickens:
^,^ <- My Cleric
o,o <- My Veno
n_n <- My Bm
=,= <- My Barb *Used as Mount*
>,o <- My Sin(Stealth all the time for no reason)0 -
Segreta - Sanctuary wrote: »People complain that you can hide because....they can't
Looks simple to me
FINALLY, a post from you that I actually like, Segreta. b:cute[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Bodyguard for Secret Passage at your service, now accepting daily installments of just 2.5m for your leisure.0 -
Actually caster's HP are worst, and Sins are obviously one shot with Deaden on.
5k-6k p def and 3k-4k m def? In general right? In general Sins can't kill someone before the server can react yet. With your DPS and refine, you are building your argument with stats of Sins with +3 gears?0 -
Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »Actually caster's HP are worst, and Sins are obviously one shot with Deaden on.
5k-6k p def and 3k-4k m def? In general right? In general Sins can't kill someone before the server can react yet. With your DPS and refine, you are building your argument with stats of Sins with +3 gears?
Not really, you see the ppl who QQ to me are players a +3 sin would not kill, and I have never actually seen a sin with +12 even kill these players in 1 v 1s... im talking about names like wolfo, Banzzork (with a huge list), players that 1 shot me...but when i do take them on, and even when they die without me doing it from stealth, same line "Yeah you need stealth"... thats what I mean...is it just me? or QQ much> lol0 -
BloodFeast - Harshlands wrote: »Not really, you see the ppl who QQ to me are players a +3 sin would not kill, and I have never actually seen a sin with +12 even kill these players in 1 v 1s... im talking about names like wolfo, Banzzork (with a huge list), players that 1 shot me...but when i do take them on, and even when they die without me doing it from stealth, same line "Yeah you need stealth"... thats what I mean...is it just me? or QQ much> lol
Yup. http://files.sharenator.com/04_Haters_Gonna_Hate-s600x349-62660.jpg[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Bodyguard for Secret Passage at your service, now accepting daily installments of just 2.5m for your leisure.0 -
Idk what you want people on here to say. The class is annoying by its nature, of course people will QQ about stealth. No other class decides when the fight starts and when it ends, unless you are talking about SZ hugging.0
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Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »Idk what you want people on here to say. The class is annoying by its nature, of course people will QQ about stealth. No other class decides when the fight starts and when it ends, unless you are talking about SZ hugging.
if its annoying why did you start one Divine_Death?
nevermind that. 0 -
Because my BM existed long before Sins came out? And being an annoying a**hole in PK doesn't suit my style? I made the Sin on HL right when RT came out and no one knew what the class was going to be. Whatever you do on a Sin, whoever you kill, won't count because it's a broken class. It's a lot more fun to PK on BM than on Sin. If you want to play the easy mode of PK, that's your choice, but not my style.0
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Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »Because my BM existed long before Sins came out? And being an annoying a**hole in PK doesn't suit my style? I made the Sin on HL right when RT came out and no one knew what the class was going to be. Whatever you do on a Sin, whoever you kill, won't count because it's a broken class. It's a lot more fun to PK on BM than on Sin. If you want to play the easy mode of PK, that's your choice, but not my style.
I like this guy
Iam Segreta,Queen of the Chicken Kingdom,proud owner of the legendary Blue Chicken,BEHOLD Mortals o,o^
Current # Chickens:
^,^ <- My Cleric
o,o <- My Veno
n_n <- My Bm
=,= <- My Barb *Used as Mount*
>,o <- My Sin(Stealth all the time for no reason)0 -
When a sin is doing total stealth spam its fun to just run out on AD cooldown and laugh at their inability to kill somone yelling "bm stealth" as i flee like a whipped dog to safe zone
because thats more or less what stealth is in pwi, running to your own portable safe zone
(no i do not do this constantly...just on sins who try to stealthspam camp with gear 3-4x better than my own.)Gifs are hard to make work here0 -
Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »Because my BM existed long before Sins came out? And being an annoying a**hole in PK doesn't suit my style? I made the Sin on HL right when RT came out and no one knew what the class was going to be. Whatever you do on a Sin, whoever you kill, won't count because it's a broken class. It's a lot more fun to PK on BM than on Sin. If you want to play the easy mode of PK, that's your choice, but not my style.
^ This...
But just to let you know, not all sins are annoying jerks when it comes to pking, it's just the people with big egos and thinking they are "all that" and act like jerks when it comes to pking... others are not like that.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
✰The Nostradamus of PWI ✰
★ A not so Retired Veteran of PWI ★
✰ ~SilverCleric~ ✰0 -
In my experience the vast majority of sins escape to stealth the second their target expels/domains/sparks/manages-to-not-die-in-half-a-second. THAT is total BS, and is likely the basis for most people's complaints.
To put it in perspective, think of all the times a higher level sin was just totally bum ***** you from stealth, or force stealthed as soon as you expel/domain. How you feel about that sin is pretty much how the entire server feels about ALL sins.
That said, it's really not that hard to beat any melee class 1on1 without stealthing. Learn2kite when BMs pop will of bodi or barbs turtle. Considering that we have 2 teleport skills, 2 speed buffs, and 478 control skills, it really shouldn't be an issue.
Whenever I fight a RANGED player tho (archer/mage), it can be tough to avoid force stealthing. High refines on archers and mages can oneshot me repeatedly, and there's really not a lot you can do about it considering they can always buy a few seconds of immunity. In this situation, damage reduction / immune pots are a good option.. although whoever you're fighting will probably just say "immune pot more" as opposed to "stealth more".
So pretty much.. kill people 1v1 without using stealth..
(Any time I force stealth or start from stealth in a 1 on 1 I feel like a lousy fishy b:surrender )0 -
What about high refined R8/R9 Psys? They pretty much... Oneshot everything that moves.101 Sage Sin*/Archer
100 Demon BM*/Barb
96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
95 Demon Wiz/
94 Sage Veno
85 Psy/80 Mystic
And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
*Pre RB level0 -
R9 sin dosent even count in pvp, its a complete joke, everyone knows that the 4billion attack levels, gof and crits mean rarely any target survives an occult ice, or HH.
R9 sin is always always expected to win, due to the fact that even R9 armour dosent match the weapon in any way.
You a complete idiot if u think a sin is a one shot, considering they are the only class with dead nerves, and the 1, 1, 1, 1 damage taken skill, anti 1 shot skills.
with equivelant geared classes, sin always has the upper hand due to stealthing, first hits, and retarted game mechanics/lag, allowing them to usually kill from stealth without damage even being tracked.
what this game needs forreals is...
A GODAMN GENIE DETECTION SKILL.
Wiz is a 1 shot to sins, cleric is a 1 shot to sins, veno is a 1 shot to sins (unless ha, and we all know sins cut through that pretty damn fast), mystic is a 1 shot to sins.
Seeker, bm and barb, are usually based on how many seconds of 2.86-5aps they can tank, usually R9 sins kill anything in under 5 seconds, not even the time of 1 of their multiple, different stuns.★Immunity is an Arch Server TW Faction. If you want to join Apply @ immunity.shivtr.com★ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
-Inactive 19 Sept 2011-0 -
pretty much sin without stealth = easy mode
sin with stealth = easy mode + cheat codes
I mean I can kill probably 90% of lvl 100+s with lvl 5 daggers in a 1v1 without using stealth.
Any sin should be able to win at least 90% of the times against other classes that have similar gear without using stealth. With stealth it better be close to 99%. It's so big of a handycap it's kinda a joke to pk on a sin. It's only fair when it's like 1v2 at least or fighting someone with at least double your refines.0 -
I feel like that logic doesn't entirely apply to sin vs psychic, where pretty much the only way for a sin to not get wtfpwnt is to force stealth during psychic will duration....but it seems rather valid for every other class.Look at your post, now back at mine. Now back to your post, now back at mine. Sadly, yours isn't mine, but if you stopped trolling and started posting legitimate comments it could look like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You're scrolling through posts, reading the posts your posts could look like. Back at mine, it's a reply saying something you want to hear. Look again, my reply is now diamonds. Anything is possible when you think before you post.0
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Pyroatheist - Lost City wrote: »I feel like that logic doesn't entirely apply to sin vs psychic, where pretty much the only way for a sin to not get wtfpwnt is to force stealth during psychic will duration....but it seems rather valid for every other class.
Tele stun and Occult Ice is plenty for Psy Will's duration.0 -
Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »Tele stun and Occult Ice is plenty for Psy Will's duration.
or sleep, seal, headhunt all works just fine as well.0 -
Cheze - Lost City wrote: »or sleep, seal, headhunt all works just fine as well.
Those land trough Will if you have water damage?0 -
Cheze - Lost City wrote: »pretty much sin without stealth = easy mode
sin with stealth = easy mode + cheat codes
I mean I can kill probably 90% of lvl 100+s with lvl 5 daggers in a 1v1 without using stealth.
Any sin should be able to win at least 90% of the times against other classes that have similar gear without using stealth. With stealth it better be close to 99%. It's so big of a handycap it's kinda a joke to pk on a sin. It's only fair when it's like 1v2 at least or fighting someone with at least double your refines.
Cheze, how about those lvl 1 dags? b:laugh To change things up a bit, I have started going for people out of stealth. They can see me coming and I usually still kill them. Going at targets out of stealth IMO takes away a major QQ factor. Though it generally is not fun to get ganked by two or more sins who are a higher lvl than you. A well timed AD can save you at times, but against 5.0's you are done most of the time unless you have good refines and a well timed AD as previously stated. I have found fun in " Non Stealth " killing, instead of just APSing something to death, use some skills and have fun.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »Those land trough Will if you have water damage?
Yep. Condensed thorn is very useful for that psy will/expel.0 -
QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ omfg I hate stealth it sucks QQQQQQQQQQQQQQ0
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RioNHale - Archosaur wrote: »R9 sin dosent even count in pvp, its a complete joke, everyone knows that the 4billion attack levels, gof and crits mean rarely any target survives an occult ice, or HH.
R9 sin is always always expected to win, due to the fact that even R9 armour dosent match the weapon in any way.
You a complete idiot if u think a sin is a one shot, considering they are the only class with dead nerves, and the 1, 1, 1, 1 damage taken skill, anti 1 shot skills.
with equivelant geared classes, sin always has the upper hand due to stealthing, first hits, and retarted game mechanics/lag, allowing them to usually kill from stealth without damage even being tracked.
what this game needs forreals is...
A GODAMN GENIE DETECTION SKILL.
Wiz is a 1 shot to sins, cleric is a 1 shot to sins, veno is a 1 shot to sins (unless ha, and we all know sins cut through that pretty damn fast), mystic is a 1 shot to sins.
Seeker, bm and barb, are usually based on how many seconds of 2.86-5aps they can tank, usually R9 sins kill anything in under 5 seconds, not even the time of 1 of their multiple, different stuns.
Stop whininggg
I'd say at least 80% of the 'endgame' sins on our server have less than 6k pdef and 4k mdef, as the most common EG build is centered around 5 aps. Rank wizards hit me for 6k+ with non-ulti's, rank archers hit in the 3-4k range with normal attacks, and barbs/bms zerk crit in the 7k+ region. Focused Mind is not the most OP thing in the world, it only has a 25% proc rate. The chances of it activating 4 times in a row (as per your example) is less than .4%. Deaden Nerves works once, and after it procs our charm is also in cooldown. When I say a class 'can oneshot me repeatedly' I mean they can repeatedly do enough damage that is greater than my hp without sparking or using an ulti.
Fighting Stealth 101
Mystic plants have continuous aoe debuffs over a decent area that will unstealth sins. If you're continually moving you become a much harder target for the obvious headhunt + auto attack routine. Awareness pots exist for a reason. Long channel attacks (take aim, divine pyrogram, wield thunder) will unstealth sins if you start channeling them as the sin stealths.
As for the whole "rank 9 sins are OP" argument... ALL RANK 9S ARE OP. Its well known that rank 9 gear is massively geared more to offense than to defense. Sins inherently benefit more from this as in 9/10 cases they can decide the first hit of the fight. In 1v1 pvp you're screwed (sins are the gods of 1v1 stealth or no stealth). That said, I have seen rank 9 barbs beat rank 9 sins on a few occasions (good barbs vs bad sins), though those are rare occasions. Assassins are meant to annihilate in single target situations but blow chunks in large scale pvp. Get used to it b:shutup0 -
_Leif - Lost City wrote: »Stop whininggg
I'd say at least 80% of the 'endgame' sins on our server have less than 6k pdef and 4k mdef, as the most common EG build is centered around 5 aps. Rank wizards hit me for 6k+ with non-ulti's, rank archers hit in the 3-4k range with normal attacks, and barbs/bms zerk crit in the 7k+ region. Focused Mind is not the most OP thing in the world, it only has a 25% proc rate. The chances of it activating 4 times in a row (as per your example) is less than .4%. Deaden Nerves works once, and after it procs our charm is also in cooldown. When I say a class 'can oneshot me repeatedly' I mean they can repeatedly do enough damage that is greater than my hp without sparking or using an ulti.
Fighting Stealth 101
Mystic plants have continuous aoe debuffs over a decent area that will unstealth sins. If you're continually moving you become a much harder target for the obvious headhunt + auto attack routine. Awareness pots exist for a reason. Long channel attacks (take aim, divine pyrogram, wield thunder) will unstealth sins if you start channeling them as the sin stealths.
As for the whole "rank 9 sins are OP" argument... ALL RANK 9S ARE OP. Its well known that rank 9 gear is massively geared more to offense than to defense. Sins inherently benefit more from this as in 9/10 cases they can decide the first hit of the fight. In 1v1 pvp you're screwed (sins are the gods of 1v1 stealth or no stealth). That said, I have seen rank 9 barbs beat rank 9 sins on a few occasions (good barbs vs bad sins), though those are rare occasions. Assassins are meant to annihilate in single target situations but blow chunks in large scale pvp. Get used to it b:shutup
What kinda sorry *** sins are you talking about?
Also... a long channel attack doesn't unstealth a sin if you use it as they stealth, it just damages them. If it doesn't kill them they don't unstealth, if it does.... well, you know.. they're dead so yeah...0 -
Dakuken - Dreamweaver wrote: »What kinda sorry *** sins are you talking about?
Also... a long channel attack doesn't unstealth a sin if you use it as they stealth, it just damages them. If it doesn't kill them they don't unstealth, if it does.... well, you know.. they're dead so yeah...
Average Endgame Sin
Being 5.0 doesn't leave a lot of room for mdef/extra pdef. You can switch around refining CV rings or CoA rings but the end result is still shoddy survivability.
Sage sins / non aps builds really win out in terms of survivability... but the majority of sins don't fall into this category
And long channel attacks do knock sins out of stealth. Try it.0 -
_Leif - Lost City wrote: »Average Endgame Sin
Being 5.0 doesn't leave a lot of room for mdef/extra pdef. You can switch around refining CV rings or CoA rings but the end result is still shoddy survivability.
Sage sins / non aps builds really win out in terms of survivability... but the majority of sins don't fall into this category
And long channel attacks do knock sins out of stealth. Try it.
.... What moron of an endgame sin wouldn't have a different set of gear/ornaments for PvP? Your setup is fine for PvE I suppose, but for PvP? No way in hell.0 -
The new trend I'm seeing is rank 9 belt and cube neck.. but again, the majority of sins i see in pvp are some small variation of this build.0
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