A recent Revelation

Infernia - Harshlands · May 2011

Ive given in and im trying out powerlevelling now.

Got me a BM I does, hes 70 (Just under a week. Powerlevelling but not at a stpid rate, also farming his 80 gear).

I can already play a BM (Gogo PServer), but I genuinely dont see how you can learn how to play a class if you FC. I mean, I only recently discovered how Glacial Spike is better than Heavens Flame if your opponent has buffs (double 200 damage or drop their def down to like 200 and hit for 500.......Yeah. Gogo Glacial!), and that was because I decided to stop FCing yesterday and just beat the **** out of things/people and "train".

~Basically my stance has changed, but not much.

Powerlevelling has ruined the game for people who dont know what they are doing, or dont know how to moderate themselves.
For people who can stop, learn, and then continue or already have experience (Say levelling a second Sin / BM up for more Nirvana, using a PServ etc) it has made the game much more enjoyable and less tepid upon "restart".

Personally, id drop a level 60 requirement on Hyperstones and have done with it. Itd solve it enough so that either you learn or you pay out the *** to level fast. (People running a second char could get to 60 without FC within a week with little effort im sure.) Then lets you sky rocket to 100 as you like.

Blaydewind - Raging Tide · May 2011

Honestly, the value of levels are gone now. I bet back then levels would tell you how well a person has developed their skills as a player, but nowadays, it's just how much a person can spend to make themselves look important (the same goes for some rank gear scenarios).

When I was doing FC runs in my late 80s to late 90s, I've seen way too many other seekers with expensive gear, unable to properly play their class. Sometimes, I would get asked to be a puller for a squad and find myself with another seeker who is higher level than me with better gear, and I would wonder why that seeker couldn't do pulls. I have 5 VIT base, using old TT90 armor from my bm and a TT90 gold zerk blade, and these seekers with warsoul helm and some other crazy pack items/rank gear I want cannot do pulls (even smaller ones)? b:shocked

If there's anything that really holds value these days, it's the individual player skills, which cannot be measured or developed through simple means. I used to blame FC heads and other methods of powerleveling, but really, the player that uses those methods irresponsibly will exist regardless of FC heads selling.

Kudos and thank you to the players out there that take time to responsibly develop their capabilities in the game. I hope to find many more. b:victory

TigerLily - Lost City · May 2011

And people who started this game in 2008/2009 was getting all agitated over how 3 BHs a day and cheap oracles turned everyone into a power leveled nub.

Than the BH generation got horrified over how new players leveled even faster in Frost on Hypers.

But clearing the entire FCC instance yourself was to much work and people started to pay for a spot in the actual exp room skipping rest of the instance to level even faster. This made the first FCC generation happy, now they could call people power leveled nubs to and join the gang of horrified oldies.

Wonder what happens next, exp cubes from the Boutique that gives you 10-20 levels? People who bought heads up to 9X needs a group to pick on as well

Aquilez - Sanctuary · May 2011

latissimus wrote: »

One of the most basic squad skills I see sadly lacking lately is how to keep the cleric alive.

When you DDers attract agro from multiple mobs, and the cleric gets heal agro then dies, the squad wipe is your fault more than it is the clerics.

The only clerics fault in that situation was in healing you.

a few days ago i was pulling fcc with archer, at the big pull before slash boss cleric healed me and died...how was that DD fault? any cleric should know that if someone get a group of mobs but dont hit them, that person cant be healled. better just let die, reset mobs and res

Graviora - Dreamweaver · May 2011

Daedallus - Sanctuary wrote: »

No offense to you personally, I'm sure you're a good player, but "I know what I'm doing" is what ppl usually say before a squad wipe IJS.

When I play barb, one thing that annoys me is a psy buffing me with SoV ( not sage/demon)

They buff me and what little mp I have goes *poof*, lol.

Then, when I explain why I don't want that buff, they reply "oh, I didn't know it sucked your mana" b:surrender

I was at school so I was unable to reply until now b:surrender

Like Samaela said, I've been playing for nearly two years and I know very well what I'm doing. I learn the basics of other classes from conversations with my friends who play the class, watching the classes in instances (really, when half the time all I have to do is IH, I watch the other classes), and practicing on the culti-quests.

I still stand that this game is simple. Its not difficult. Sure, powerleveled noobs exist, but they'll eventually learn it or quit the game. I always cast SoV on myself unless asked otherwise. Or if my husband asks for it before he runs to do TT (I pay for his MP food anyways... QQ)

SaiKun - Harshlands · May 2011

_Ink_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

I have to say..I kind of hate FC. If the person using it is 80+ it doesn't bother me as much, but I have just seen so many fail players who power leveled now that it's simply irritating. Maybe they would be fail anyway, whether they had played the game or just power leveled. But, seriously, level 90 sins with lame gear claiming they can tank Nob/Pole then trying to blame other people when they die? Venos who don't know what amp and purge are at 80+? It's kind of pathetic. But then again, I view PW like I do any other game. If you were to take games like Final Fantasy or Zelda and be able to skip through all the content, just automatically have all of the end gear yet miss the entire story, all of the quests and bosses along the way, what's the point of playing?

This is just my opinion though.

+1
Why would you want to get to level 100 so fast? To roflpwn everyone? Then what? Powerlevel another toon to do the same thing but with different visual graphics?

Guess being old-fashioned is...well...old-fashioned. b:surrender

_Ink_ - Raging Tide · May 2011

Blaydewind - Raging Tide wrote: »

Honestly, the value of levels are gone now.

This is what I've been discussing with some of my guildmates. When I joined, before I really knew much about the game, I thought that getting to level 100 would be a good accomplishment, a goal to look forward to and work towards. But obviously any idiot with a credit card can sell gold to pay for heads and hypers, so when I get to 100 it's not an accomplishment at all, really. I suppose, to me, PW is just taking all the value out of any goals in the game. But I can't complain too much, it happens in the majority of MMOs due to cash items.

KasTing - Raging Tide · May 2011

Annd I just got back from work.I agree that there will always be exceptions to the powerlevel=noob thing. (I should have stated this earlier) but If your JUST starting the game. Powerlevling could sound appealing. Yet it will only lead you to a harder end-game as you just dont know the basic squad mechanics from trial and error. I understand if you have a higher lvl player and know all that stuff already and you just dont want to go though all the hassle of finding low lvl bh squads and doing all those low lvl quests again I UNDERSTAND that and I'd do the same thing lol. But point being if its your first char......plz plz plz learn the basics of the game and do all this game has to offer. It will help you tremendously ...as well as not make you look like a complete idiot. To answer the statement (and i'm too lazy to quote) "try to find a bh29 and bh39 squad there aint any and there all ran by high lvls so how you going to learn anything"....annnd thats why we are here...because everyone is powerlevling

duh lol. I remember when those places were packed of people and you could find a squad in 5 min haha. Thats why I find a few friends a the beginning of the game to lvl with and learn together and you will never have to run random squads again. I usually have a couple barb and cleric friends all the time ready to go and DDs are easy to find. It's all common since. Plan ahead. Anyway its just a game ..and we all shouldn't get so worked up over itb:pleased.

Lesthar - Heavens Tear · May 2011

I am fine and happy about people that seek powerlevel and aim to learn about their class properly, or at least know the basic purposes of skills.

On the contrary, those who end being stuck at a high level (after powerleveling too), completely broke and unexperienced... and end ruining instances because they pretend they leveled by themselves and though effort... They are still completely lost (their inexperience gets revealed little by little) and still won't admit their failure when they cause a squad wipe... They are a joke, a big one at that.

latissimus · May 2011

Aquilez - Sanctuary wrote: »

a few days ago i was pulling fcc with archer, at the big pull before slash boss cleric healed me and died...how was that DD fault? any cleric should know that if someone get a group of mobs but dont hit them, that person cant be healled. better just let die, reset mobs and res

In the last BH I did, an archer attacked 1 mob and attracted a second. The cleric healed the archer without realising there was a second mob and got the second mob's agro. The archer kept on hammering the 1st mob instead of saving the cleric from the second mob. Those mobs drain manna so the cleric had no chance.

To add insult to injury, when the cleric returned, the archer insisted on being the 1st res then pked the cleric before she could res anyone else.

The archer was red-named, and when a cleric res red-named it also becomes red-named. In addition to shafting the rest of the squad the archer was trying to get drops from the cleric.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear · May 2011

yeah, if you want to level that fast, go to a pserver. do a little shopping of the ads, and find one that pops you up high, gives you special armour...in other words, you arent earning a bloody thing.

here, you are supposed to do quests as they are given....except for the FCC. for some reason i dont know, they give you those way back in your early 70s, i think, when you wouldnt have a chance at surviving, unless the squad was high levels, and babyed you all the way. and what would be the point, anyway?

jiq wrote: »

Yeah. That's why they shouldn't let people under 80 in FCC. And PQ mobs should give crappy exp, rewards for doing PQ should be increased. They could fix this easily but PWE doesn't care... This game is like a freaking private server now. -_-

Joshcja - Sanctuary · May 2011

I like how many of the "pro" power leveled players just let somone claiming a 50% base equipment debuff is better than a 100% amp on any target much less a buffed target slide.

Power leveling does cause a lack of skill. I've seen exactly 2 people on my server doublecast and aftercast cancle, the person who taught me and the person i taught it to. (figure out what i'm talkign about and you get 100 cool points) Neither are complicated and most peole do both accidentaly at some time or another. It just when you grind mobs over and over that you begin to figure out HOW to do the more complicated and obscure tricks of the game.

ColdSnow - Dreamweaver · May 2011

Lvl100 sin in Brim, 2 clerics in squad died already like 4 times of his idiocity. then as it wasnt enough at last boss "Fats", instead of letting me pull with my herc the boss he ran in and sparked. obviously rangers agro and aoe. both cleric died in this squad 8 times cause of his dumb behaviour knowing NOTHING about agro aoe, archers, killing and turning rangers.

again..lvl100 sin with rank 8, grats pwi.

and i love how people say "i love hf" even tho it was HF+amp that made the work. Not only HF alone.

Infernia - Harshlands · May 2011

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

I like how many of the "pro" power leveled players just let somone claiming a 50% base equipment debuff is better than a 100% amp on any target much less a buffed target slide.

Power leveling does cause a lack of skill. I've seen exactly 2 people on my server doublecast and aftercast cancle, the person who taught me and the person i taught it to. (figure out what i'm talkign about and you get 100 cool points) Neither are complicated and most peole do both accidentaly at some time or another. It just when you grind mobs over and over that you begin to figure out HOW to do the more complicated and obscure tricks of the game.

Ya ever seen Heavens Flame used on a buffed target vs Glacial? Holeen and similar bosses take way more damage while buffed under the effect of Glacial over Heavens Flame, not to mention the fact that in the ever so popular Nirvana more than half the bosses cannot be amped by HF.

Also I never said I was pro, I said that I at least stopped and took some time to learn. The amount of BMs I see use Heavens Flame the second the fight starts still amazes me. Its like they dont realise that its going to be (On average) about 4-5 seconds before anyone will really start hitting the damn boss. (Assuming Assassins use Powerdash / another BM drops Glacial on top, and making up for the inevitable delay in people actually sparking).

Feel free to look down on me more for having at least some knowledge of my PLevelled character, il just be redirecting you to the old-school BMs who still havent a **** damn clue about timing.

Letmeblossom - Dreamweaver · May 2011

_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »

I would blame oblivious stupidity more than powerleveling.

Abstractive - Archosaur wrote: »

If you guys don't stop rambling about "the good old days", I will have to find retirement homes for everybody.

_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »

Some people are fast learners and some are oblivious for life
stuff
I've seen it done. the "Plevel=bad player" conclusion is flawed because of the inherent assumption that all people lack the capacity to learn quickly. You cannot make such broad assumptions and expect the resulting conclusion to be accurate.

QFT.

Seriously. OP, i've seen this kind of playing BEFORE FC powerleveling came in. You guys just ignore how many bad players there are until you have something bad enough to blame it on. FYI: there's other ways to plevel that doesn't involve stepping into FC.

scarfaceclaw · May 2011

KasTing - Raging Tide wrote: »

So with the recent fad of buying FC to lvl chars real fast...people seem to not know what there doing is squad a whole lot more than in the past. I was in bh recently and barb was wearing lvl 30 armor o.O...and couldn't hold agro worth **** because the psy in the squad was spamming skills with her char that she bought and dieing every round of mobs we encounter as well as the sin. Both had rank gear and fash and really OP gears so it was apparent to me that they bought there chars considering there skill.I'm not trying to make this a oh QQ buying FC makes ****** thread again so my point being is, if u plan to play a game...learn to play your char rather than going into something and not knowing basic agro skills and control(seriously you learn this within the first couple bhs if not earlier). I've recently come back from a year and a half of not playing and I am saddened at the state of the players have become. I remember being able to go all out on squads and being able to trust the tank. But sadly today many people don't have a clue at all what there doing and ive left more squads (saving my exp) and went out to go do quests lol. I hope a lot of you sympathize with me rather than be immature and troll and flame at my expense b:surrender . Remember the good'ol days.

There were morons playing the game well before selling heads became popular.

Zenorx - Harshlands · May 2011

Lets get this straight, powerleveling DOES NOT make a bad player, stupidity does.

/thread

lizrau · May 2011

I've played this game for 2 years now, no powerleveled...I WOULD LIKE TO FREAKING POWERLEVEL ONE OF MY CHARS LOLOLOLOOLOL

Joshcja - Sanctuary · May 2011

Infernia - Harshlands wrote: »

Ya ever seen Heavens Flame used on a buffed target vs Glacial? Holeen and similar bosses take way more damage while buffed under the effect of Glacial over Heavens Flame, not to mention the fact that in the ever so popular Nirvana more than half the bosses cannot be amped by HF.

Also I never said I was pro, I said that I at least stopped and took some time to learn. The amount of BMs I see use Heavens Flame the second the fight starts still amazes me. Its like they dont realise that its going to be (On average) about 4-5 seconds before anyone will really start hitting the damn boss. (Assuming Assassins use Powerdash / another BM drops Glacial on top, and making up for the inevitable delay in people actually sparking).

Feel free to look down on me more for having at least some knowledge of my PLevelled character, il just be redirecting you to the old-school BMs who still havent a **** damn clue about timing.

Debuffs dont affect buffed stats

50% =/= 2x damage

Stopping sparking to debuff if theres a veno/cleric/barb in squad is just a waste of damage, 10% less phys def than sage IW is so worth that time and you lose the crit from CCing GS as well.

these are basic things most bm's learned by level 70 "back in the day". most we're still so terribad my level 7x bm would be picked over 9x's for tt, but sadly they still knew more about the class than you nubcake chances are those "pro" bm's are post pack fists I flame for fun.

Have some math nubbles, http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/mob/24844 Final frost bosses stats

vs a 100 oponent 2011 phys def is a 34% reduction, 1006 phys def = 20%

again buffs are not affected by debuffs unless the debuff stacks to over 100%. (bm marrows for example) again you will almost never have a squad without an existing phys debuffer.

Not calling it useless but GS dosent hold a candle to HF, even more so at 99 when HF gains 33% dureation and GS gets a buff so sexy it'll make your panties wet.

Michael_Dark - Lost City · May 2011

Infernia - Harshlands wrote: »

Ya ever seen Heavens Flame used on a buffed target vs Glacial? Holeen and similar bosses take way more damage while buffed under the effect of Glacial over Heavens Flame, not to mention the fact that in the ever so popular Nirvana more than half the bosses cannot be amped by HF.

lol

I'm actually agreeing with Josh on this one. The world must be coming to an end. b:chuckle

Joshcja - Sanctuary · May 2011

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

lol

I'm actually agreeing with Josh on this one. The world must be coming to an end. b:chuckle

*Noms popcorn as a pale rider passes*

Come back to the bm forum you were fun to flame folks with and troll at times.

(Full HA FTL!!! *waves hybrid pride banner*)

KasTing - Raging Tide · May 2011

lizrau wrote: »

I've played this game for 2 years now, no powerleveled...I WOULD LIKE TO FREAKING POWERLEVEL ONE OF MY CHARS LOLOLOLOOLOL

And your welcome to do so b:laugh

KasTing - Raging Tide · May 2011

Letmeblossom - Dreamweaver wrote: »

QFT.

Seriously. OP, i've seen this kind of playing BEFORE FC powerleveling came in. You guys just ignore how many bad players there are until you have something bad enough to blame it on. FYI: there's other ways to plevel that doesn't involve stepping into FC.[/QUOTE

Yes that was the only thing I mentioned as a powerlevling option, but have you noticed there are more of the morons these days compared to before FC powerleveling came in. You just butthurt because the fc powerleveling is the only thing you want and/or know how to do b:kiss. Lets hope your not one of em b:chuckle

Manostra - Harshlands · May 2011

Highlevel is part of PWI's Evolution. If enough level 100's are around you can not sell your game to someone and ask him to put a year or more into his Avatar to get on equal terms.

Some of you make good Points, level 100 isnt level 100 and even gear isnt always the factor if the player have no idea how to utilize his skill kit. But this is the new Way to tell whos good and whos bad. Everyone can become level 100 fast but not everyone knows what to do. Use a blacklist and your Friendlist to seperate the good from the bad people and your problem of frustrating Group activitys is considerly lowerd.

Pwi want clearly the vast majority of their playerbase around level 100. Ive been soloed a FB59 for a friend wined and i just shaked my head how empty the dungeon was. I can't remember how often i duoed my Bh's there with a bm and i remember some mobs had chain aggro and there was MORE MOBS in the way even wined. No chain aggro anymore , most mobs gone. Its getting more and more easy for Lowlevels to climb up. And it has to be because nobody give a **** anymore about his gear below level 80. b:angry

I leveld up the old way (including 3x bh each day!) until 93 after this i took hyper and FCCed. I did fcc before but without hypers and i remember the time where you had to BB almost every ****ing pull and no fancy sin cleared all shades to first boss. I remember squad whipes on the second boss too b:shocked. I had fun. After a break i came back and FCC is only a joke of instance now. Too easy, no challenge. But since i hit 100 finally i have a lot of new Dungeons i never botherd to explore. And lol i had my first TT runs ever after reaching 100 since i always took molds over TT or bought it from Ah and running a Catshop 24h/day put me in the position that i never had to grind for my gear. After all i needed close to 2 years to get where i am , other people archive that in hmmm 3 weeks ?
But IDC !

Right now i find pwi exciting, so much new Instances , people actually die again , i have to learn how to play the new dungeons to cause no squad whipe. I must say the game is only fun anymore after reaching level 100 because every dungeon below (expect TT and ,maybe bh pole without barb) is kinda too easy even with a full squad in level range.

If enough people reach level 100 they will raise the level cap and i can promise for the first year or so you wont have an easy way to get them and hypers will become pretty much a must have to make progress but thats another story

Abstractive - Archosaur · May 2011

Manostra - Harshlands wrote: »

Highlevel is part of PWI's Evolution. If enough level 100's are around you can not sell your game to someone and ask him to put a year or more into his Avatar to get on equal terms.

Some of you make good Points, level 100 isnt level 100 and even gear isnt always the factor if the player have no idea how to utilize his skill kit. But this is the new Way to tell whos good and whos bad. Everyone can become level 100 fast but not everyone knows what to do. Use a blacklist and your Friendlist to seperate the good from the bad people and your problem of frustrating Group activitys is considerly lowerd.

Pwi want clearly the vast majority of their playerbase around level 100. Ive been soloed a FB59 for a friend wined and i just shaked my head how empty the dungeon was. I can't remember how often i duoed my Bh's there with a bm and i remember some mobs had chain aggro and there was MORE MOBS in the way even wined. No chain aggro anymore , most mobs gone. Its getting more and more easy for Lowlevels to climb up. And it has to be because nobody give a **** anymore about his gear below level 80. b:angry

I leveld up the old way (including 3x bh each day!) until 93 after this i took hyper and FCCed. I did fcc before but without hypers and i remember the time where you had to BB almost every ****ing pull and no fancy sin cleared all shades to first boss. I remember squad whipes on the second boss too b:shocked. I had fun. After a break i came back and FCC is only a joke of instance now. Too easy, no challenge. But since i hit 100 finally i have a lot of new Dungeons i never botherd to explore. And lol i had my first TT runs ever after reaching 100 since i always took molds over TT or bought it from Ah and running a Catshop 24h/day put me in the position that i never had to grind for my gear. After all i needed close to 2 years to get where i am , other people archive that in hmmm 3 weeks ?
But IDC !

Right now i find pwi exciting, so much new Instances , people actually die again , i have to learn how to play the new dungeons to cause no squad whipe. I must say the game is only fun anymore after reaching level 100 because every dungeon below (expect TT and ,maybe bh pole without barb) is kinda too easy even with a full squad in level range.

If enough people reach level 100 they will raise the level cap and i can promise for the first year or so you wont have an easy way to get them and hypers will become pretty much a must have to make progress but thats another story

That's the last straw, grandpa. I'll get you away from all these young fancy 'sins. Come on, let's go. I hear the Byrd Haven nursing home in Arkansas is great. We'll miss you, 'pa. b:cry

Manostra - Harshlands · May 2011

Abstractive - Archosaur wrote: »

That's the last straw, grandpa. I'll get you away from all these young fancy 'sins. Come on, let's go. I hear the Byrd Haven nursing home in Arkansas is great. We'll miss you, 'pa. b:cry

That made me laugh HARD , Geez you wanna kill me ?
Seen my crutch ?

Abstractive - Archosaur · May 2011

Manostra - Harshlands wrote: »

That made me laugh HARD , Geez you wanna kill me ?
Seen my crutch ?

That was a refference to an earlier post of mine where I said I am offering retirement homes for "oldschool players" rambling about "the good old days". A haven, so to speak.

I don't want to kill anyone. Can't we all just get a bong ?

XYogiBearx - Sanctuary · May 2011

nothing wrong with powerleveling

Letmeblossom - Dreamweaver · May 2011

KasTing - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yes that was the only thing I mentioned as a powerlevling option, but have you noticed there are more of the morons these days compared to before FC powerleveling came in. You just butthurt because the fc powerleveling is the only thing you want and/or know how to do b:kiss. Lets hope your not one of em b:chuckle

Actually yeah I did plevel my sin, because after almost two freaking years of doing the same freaking quests 40 freaking times, I got freaking sick of it. So yeah, if I feel like spending my coins on buying fc heads, I'm allowed to do so. Also, there's no need for any trolling, since there was no trolling in my post... except for some facts.

Refer here for my full out opinion on you QQers about pleveling. It doesn't take 80 levels of grinding and BH's to figure out how to play your class, and if you can't grasp it within 2 weeks, uninstall.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · May 2011

Letmeblossom - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Actually yeah I did plevel my sin, because after almost two freaking years of doing the same freaking quests 40 freaking times, I got freaking sick of it. So yeah, if I feel like spending my coins on buying fc heads, I'm allowed to do so. Also, there's no need for any trolling, since there was no trolling in my post... except for some facts.

Refer here for my full out opinion on you QQers about pleveling. It doesn't take 80 levels of grinding and BH's to figure out how to play your class, and if you can't grasp it within 2 weeks, uninstall.

At least I gave them a month b:scorn

A recent Revelation

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