mystic vs veno pet comparison
Barunaa - Heavens Tear
Posts: 420 Arc User
so i know mystic pets has potential to be stronger then most veno pets because there stats are effected by your gear. but how much is that potential? how much closer does that gap become?
i tried to compare my lvl 40 chiyu with lvl 34 crystal magmite. the magmite has 1.1k HP and 3.4k Pdef. lvl 40 chiyu has 1k HP and 1.6k pdef.
that is a significant gap in pdef which means you will have to spam heal chiyu alot in the early lvls-mid levels compared to a magmite for venos. and mystics are cheap with there MP either. the heal is faster then venos but it sucks up MP like a crack addict sucking up crack. so this is actually a bad thing and imo veno heal is slightly better just because they dont have to heal there pets as often unless there using a squishy pet.
i also compared there patks and chiyu has pretty much the same patk as the magmite... the only thing that makes chiyu better is the stun skill and the 4x atk skill. but again, u need to transfer ur own mana to chiyu to spam that which again drains mana faster then i can eat a snicker.
so with that all said, how do the summons really compare to veno pets in terms of tankability and DDing? (not including 3rd summon because that summon is a pure support/buff pet)
storm mistress does very good in the DD department when using her magic atk, but once again u got to spam transference. most of the time storm mistress with have more MP to spare for her skills then u would...
so lets find out, how do they stack up against veno pets? cuz from what i can see, it doesnt look good untill u get rank 8... and even at rank 8 a comparable veno will have a nix/herc.
i tried to compare my lvl 40 chiyu with lvl 34 crystal magmite. the magmite has 1.1k HP and 3.4k Pdef. lvl 40 chiyu has 1k HP and 1.6k pdef.
that is a significant gap in pdef which means you will have to spam heal chiyu alot in the early lvls-mid levels compared to a magmite for venos. and mystics are cheap with there MP either. the heal is faster then venos but it sucks up MP like a crack addict sucking up crack. so this is actually a bad thing and imo veno heal is slightly better just because they dont have to heal there pets as often unless there using a squishy pet.
i also compared there patks and chiyu has pretty much the same patk as the magmite... the only thing that makes chiyu better is the stun skill and the 4x atk skill. but again, u need to transfer ur own mana to chiyu to spam that which again drains mana faster then i can eat a snicker.
so with that all said, how do the summons really compare to veno pets in terms of tankability and DDing? (not including 3rd summon because that summon is a pure support/buff pet)
storm mistress does very good in the DD department when using her magic atk, but once again u got to spam transference. most of the time storm mistress with have more MP to spare for her skills then u would...
so lets find out, how do they stack up against veno pets? cuz from what i can see, it doesnt look good untill u get rank 8... and even at rank 8 a comparable veno will have a nix/herc.
Post edited by Barunaa - Heavens Tear on
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Comments
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Chihyu is decent for DDing if his chi bar is full, but for tanking...he can't hold aggro for ****. An archer 5 levels below me kept pulling aggro off of me last night when we were clearing some trash mobs in BH39. Chihyu's basic skill just doesn't hold aggro well enough, not like Bash does. A mystic will never be able to compare to a veno for that reason. Venos can (until high levels) hold aggro most of the time against other people their level. Chihyu, I don't see holding aggro against anyone unless you're 20 levels above them.
For a comparison, a level 100 mystic posted stats of her summons here. If you go to ecatomb, you can see that the pdef value on Chihyu doesn't even come close to GW or herc, and the patk is significantly lower. Granted, you could probably boost Chihyu's pdef a little higher depending on sharding and different gear, but it's still quite a large difference.
Cragglord's a different story when it comes to patk, of course, but he's not permanent. b:chuckle0 -
I think mystics pets are less tanks, more damage dealers. So they can't have a private 'semi-barb' like venos can. Theyir devil seems more like a 'semi-sin' and mistress like 'semi-wizz'.
I would be very interested in seeing stats of the 1st and 2nd summon at some mid/higher levels (60-90?) of an average/good geared player (I mean not rank/nirvana, but some TTs/legends/quests) so that we can compare it to glacey's or fatso's stats.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Mystics pets arent made to tank like a venos herc is. but i would say the DMG output is comparable, especially if you feed your pet MP so it can use its skills.
this IMG is taken from another topic:
http://i51.tinypic.com/bg42g8.jpg
as you can see, the defenses suck. as we know, pets are based off of the players gear, so im not sure how different a heavy user's pet will be.
but the pets arent totally worthless. though as said before, they cant hold aggro worth ****, but in instances like TT, they do max DMG, which could help them hold aggro in that way (if they would even be able to tank it), and also dish out nice DMG.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
vixter (101 Heavy Veno) ~ TT farmer
Peachie (102 Mystic) ~ Main character0 -
Ephemera - Raging Tide wrote: »Chihyu is decent for DDing if his chi bar is full, but for tanking...he can't hold aggro for ****. An archer 5 levels below me kept pulling aggro off of me last night when we were clearing some trash mobs in BH39. Chihyu's basic skill just doesn't hold aggro well enough, not like Bash does. A mystic will never be able to compare to a veno for that reason. Venos can (until high levels) hold aggro most of the time against other people their level. Chihyu, I don't see holding aggro against anyone unless you're 20 levels above them.
For a comparison, a level 100 mystic posted stats of her summons here. If you go to ecatomb, you can see that the pdef value on Chihyu doesn't even come close to GW or herc, and the patk is significantly lower. Granted, you could probably boost Chihyu's pdef a little higher depending on sharding and different gear, but it's still quite a large difference.
Cragglord's a different story when it comes to patk, of course, but he's not permanent. b:chuckle
so going off just that mystics lvl 100 pets, it seems they only have more HP over veno pets where as veno pets have significantly more pdef. even a magmite has alot more pdef then cragglord.
this isnt necessarily a bad thing tho since of course we cant have summons replacing veno pets, but venos are known for alot more then just there pets. a mystic on the other hand is alot more reliant on there pets then a veno is for DDing purposes.
cragglord is a special exception and it has more Pattack, and more HP then a nix, but cragglord is only 20seconds... so a nix will do infinity more DPS then a cragglord because of the simple fact that a nix is perm.
and idk about them being better DDs then veno pets either. devil chiyu seems to have less patk then a herc... infact ANY of the insect pets have a significantly higher patk then chiyu along with a significantly higher Pdef. oh and lets not forget the atks/second.... mystics are honestly starting to disappoint me more and more.
i think all of this can even out tho if they make it to wear gear affects pet stats alot more then it currently does.0 -
I'm only a level 30 mystic, but so far I have a hard time not stealing aggro from my summons. Nature's Vengency almost always steals agro, so the NV->Absorb Soul combo results in my taking a hit or two.
So far the mystic is a lot less fun (than my veno) when doing normal kill the mob quests. I've not done enough squadding to have an opinion about group play.0 -
Just a side note: Amancay's armor isn't refined too heavily (her r8 weap is +10, but her armor isn't past +5 iirc). Unless she went through a severe upgrade in her gear, those summons still have a lot of room for improvement.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Heavy Cash Shopping is the difference between understanding simple game mechanics at level 30, or level 101.0 -
they would only improve in HP though (except for be;t/necklace) with armor refined. even if the belt/neck was refined a little more, i dont think the defense on the pets would increase much.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
vixter (101 Heavy Veno) ~ TT farmer
Peachie (102 Mystic) ~ Main character0 -
o.o looking at those lvl 100 stats, that mystic must have awefully low hp. im not even lvl 70 yet and my chiyu is packing same hp.0
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Barunaa - Heavens Tear wrote: »a mystic on the other hand is alot more reliant on there pets then a veno is for DDing purposes.
I hope you mean end game reliability, this mystic is 70 atm and sometimes I dont even use my DD pets for pve simply cos I dont need to, my veno on the other hand, not having the pet out just totally cripples you, there only self heal has a 5 min cool down so they have to use pots if there going to be taking damage unlike a mystic which can just instantly heal, plus the venos basic attacks are much slower cast compared to the mystic, i spend my time 2 or 3 shoting mobs unlike my veno where it takes 3-4 hits from the veno at least while the pet is dealing its damage, unless like some of these lazy veno's i see that just let there pet do all the damage.
Either way, mystic isn't as pet reliant as a veno at all, I've never seen a veno in pve without there pet lol.0 -
Rieco - Raging Tide wrote: »there only self heal has a 5 min cool down so they have to use pots if there going to be taking damage
That's not completely true. Foxform's Leech recovers the veno's hp and it has a 6 second cool. It's not as convenient as mystic's heals since it's a melee attack.0 -
Rieco - Raging Tide wrote: »I hope you mean end game reliability, this mystic is 70 atm and sometimes I dont even use my DD pets for pve simply cos I dont need to, my veno on the other hand, not having the pet out just totally cripples you, there only self heal has a 5 min cool down so they have to use pots if there going to be taking damage unlike a mystic which can just instantly heal, plus the venos basic attacks are much slower cast compared to the mystic, i spend my time 2 or 3 shoting mobs unlike my veno where it takes 3-4 hits from the veno at least while the pet is dealing its damage, unless like some of these lazy veno's i see that just let there pet do all the damage.
Either way, mystic isn't as pet reliant as a veno at all, I've never seen a veno in pve without there pet lol.
I beg to differ, as I'm not pet reliant at all for a veno. I think herc's too bulky and I can't see my screen. You just answered why most venos are pet reliant. They use them ask tanks and they can't heal themselves. Mystic without heals will cripple them too. If not, worse than a veno. Self-heal is actually 3 minutes long but even then we have a skill that switches our HP/MP values.
About DDing, the cast time of Venomous Scarab compared to Nature's Vengeance isn't that far off to notice the difference. But then again, I currently have -51% chan to not notice any difference. Mystics have less attacking skills than a veno (not including pets). You forgot that we can go fox form to DD as well.
I don't see what "cripples" venos so easily without pets, though.
OT: Mystic pets aren't made for tanking but rather support. I personally use Storm Mistress a lot when doing AOEs. It does its job done. I do wish veno pets get magic damage too (asides from the elemental bashes). b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Myrrmidonna - Dreamweaver wrote: »I would be very interested in seeing stats of the 1st and 2nd summon at some mid/higher levels (60-90?) of an average/good geared player (I mean not rank/nirvana, but some TTs/legends/quests) so that we can compare it to glacey's or fatso's stats.
Took some screenies of my level 62 mystic's Devil stats vs. my level 62 GW / 61 Seamonster Guardian on my veno.
Devil Chihyu: Stats
Glacial Walker: Stats
Seamonster Guardian: Stats
Just to note, my mystic is in nearly full 3* gear, along with some mold gear, and an Ancient Arbor. Everything's sharded with citrines (though some slots I still have to add gems to) and I'm a pure mag build.
I'm sure the patk goes up more and more with higher level weapons (and refines), but the stats of Chihyu in comparison to veno pets are still pretty sad. The pdef would increase somewhat more at higher levels with better gear, especially when I start mixing in garnets, but it's still much, much lower than even a dps veno pet--at mid levels, anyway. Not only that, but the Seamonster is a mag res pet, so its pdef is pretty low for its level (and I thought that thing was squishy >_>).
Essentially, if a mystic wants their summons to come even remotely close to veno pets, they have to be pretty geared out for their level. Even with high refines/sharding at mid-levels, though, I don't think Devil would come close to a GW, and certainly not at all close to a herc.0 -
Myrrmidonna - Dreamweaver wrote: »I think mystics pets are less tanks, more damage dealers. So they can't have a private 'semi-barb' like venos can. Theyir devil seems more like a 'semi-sin' and mistress like 'semi-wizz'.
I would be very interested in seeing stats of the 1st and 2nd summon at some mid/higher levels (60-90?) of an average/good geared player (I mean not rank/nirvana, but some TTs/legends/quests) so that we can compare it to glacey's or fatso's stats.
Screenie
Lvl71 Mystic with Devil
The gear is...
Necklace of the Legion +1
Fiend's Ring +2
Fiend's Ring +4
Cloak of Valor +2 (2Flawless Cit)
Meditation's Flame Tome
Belt of Planets +1
Sleeves of the Cosmos +1 (1Flawless Cit)
Warsoul of Heaven +2 (2Immac Cits)
Driver Arcane Robe +2 (1Flawless Turq 2Flawless Cit)
Pants of Dragon Scales +1 (2Flawless Cit)
Snow Dance Boots +1 (2Flawless Cit)
Ashura's Sign +2 (1Immac Sapphire)
The Devil is the Level10 Summon. He did manage to tank Rankar at lvl 70, not sure if he could have done it at a lower level. And also not sure if it matters but the character has -21Channeling...-41Channeling with Rapid Growth.0 -
Maybe its too soon to compare summons to veno pets. Sage/Demon versions of the summons might increase summon stats further, if they don't then nevermind, but if they do, you never know it might make a significant difference.Also Known as Wylo.0
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Selvyn - Raging Tide wrote: »Maybe its too soon to compare summons to veno pets. Sage/Demon versions of the summons might increase summon stats further, if they don't then nevermind, but if they do, you never know it might make a significant difference.
I'm sure they probably would. Also, summons (except Cragg) get a 3rd skill when they reach level 11.
Chihyu gets a temporary p.atk buff
Storm gets a seal
Salvation gets an AoE Aegis Shell[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Heavy Cash Shopping is the difference between understanding simple game mechanics at level 30, or level 101.0 -
Selvyn - Raging Tide wrote: »Maybe its too soon to compare summons to veno pets. Sage/Demon versions of the summons might increase summon stats further, if they don't then nevermind, but if they do, you never know it might make a significant difference.
Very true, I just hope the lvl11 version has a more substantial mod with gear.0 -
VenoAtHeart - Dreamweaver wrote: »Very true, I just hope the lvl11 version has a more substantial mod with gear.
I want to see how badly a level 11 Cragg wrecks people in PvP with a highly refined weapon. b:chuckle[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Heavy Cash Shopping is the difference between understanding simple game mechanics at level 30, or level 101.0 -
mystics are a mana hog so i dont attack much and only heal my pet. they are a lazy version of venos cause u dont need to feed them nor level them which is cool.They really arnt pets but more like walkin spells. im tired of levelin pets and might go to mystics.
i havent tried those flowers yet but look very usesfull if u steel agro and the mob comes after u. plop a plant down and it will attack the mob when it hits it.
i did the int build for maximum mana but the spells cost way more to cast BUT the summons time is way faster.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The many sides of a Venomancerb:victory0 -
Nuku_Nuku - Raging Tide wrote: »mystics are a mana hog so i dont attack much and only heal my pet. they are a lazy version of venos cause u dont need to feed them nor level them which is cool.They really arnt pets but more like walkin spells. im tired of levelin pets and might go to mystics.
i havent tried those flowers yet but look very usesfull if u steel agro and the mob comes after u. plop a plant down and it will attack the mob when it hits it.
i did the int build for maximum mana but the spells cost way more to cast BUT the summons time is way faster.
To be honest with you, you waste more mana healing your pet than you would just attacking the mob yourself. Nature's Vengeance followed by Absorb Soul and the mob is dead 9 times out of 10.
At least that's the case with level 10NV, AS, and Heal Summon.0 -
ya mystic pets should atleast be several times more powerful then the overworld veno pets (not including nix/herc. just all the pets that are tammable by a veno) since theres only 2 pets a mystic use to atk with. the 3rd pet is a buff pet and the 4th pet is 20 seconds.
so there should be no reason to why there is THAT big of a gap in stats between a veno pet and a mystic pet. it should honestly be the vice versa.
again this can be fixed by adjusting how much mystic summons are effected by gear. maybe change it to where they get effect 50-60% of mystics gear?0 -
Barunaa - Heavens Tear wrote: »ya mystic pets should atleast be several times more powerful then the overworld veno pets (not including nix/herc. just all the pets that are tammable by a veno) since theres only 2 pets a mystic use to atk with. the 3rd pet is a buff pet and the 4th pet is 20 seconds.
You'd have a better argument if you just stuck to "I like mystics, we should be more awesome, and better summoners than the summoner class with anything short of the expensive CS pets".0 -
I don't like that whole "I'm better than you" argument.
![:\](https://forum.arcgames.com/pwi/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
Saying that their summons should be greater period over any other pet that most venos use anyway.. is just saying "Please reroll a Mystic, you are gonna suck at the end anyway."
Who's gonna purge on command now? Or do people not worry about purging in anything anymore?
My opinion; its the circumstance where the class is used that'll prove its worth.0 -
No idea how much strong can a mystic's pet reach with Mystic Full R9...0
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Cocobelle - Sanctuary wrote: »I beg to differ, as I'm not pet reliant at all for a veno. I think herc's too bulky and I can't see my screen. You just answered why most venos are pet reliant. They use them ask tanks and they can't heal themselves. Mystic without heals will cripple them too. If not, worse than a veno. Self-heal is actually 3 minutes long but even then we have a skill that switches our HP/MP values.
About DDing, the cast time of Venomous Scarab compared to Nature's Vengeance isn't that far off to notice the difference. But then again, I currently have -51% chan to not notice any difference. Mystics have less attacking skills than a veno (not including pets). You forgot that we can go fox form to DD as well.
I don't see what "cripples" venos so easily without pets, though.
OT: Mystic pets aren't made for tanking but rather support. I personally use Storm Mistress a lot when doing AOEs. It does its job done. I do wish veno pets get magic damage too (asides from the elemental bashes). b:surrender
Perhaps that explains why your not pet reliant? or you were just pro enough to play a veno in the early stages with your pet stowed, somehow.
I've used a veno for a hell of a long time my self, PW-MY, on harshlands and on RT and there definitely not reccomended to be in PvE not using your pet to the best of its ability's, the whole point of the veno in pve especially is to use the pet, perhaps not near end game with a **** load of -cast gear, but definitely earlyer on, you would have to be an ego fool to even try prove otherwise.
I still stand by the fact that as a mystic you don't even need the pet, which is basicly true, you don't, even if i didn't use absorb soul, i can get natures vengeance on a mob 3-4 times before it starts casting on me, use bramble tornado to repulse it back along with extra damage, hit it a couple more times and its dead and there we go, easy kill on a mob without being touched, if your a veno, your always going to get hit, hence my point a veno is more reliant on the pet, I'm not talking about whos got more chance of being pwned.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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*One week later*
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Ephemera - Raging Tide wrote: »
I noticed in the Screen shot of the Devil Chihyu that you did not have Verdant Shell on, can you do another one with the shell on and then can you do a third with, your buff, BM Bell, Barb HP buff and full Cleric buffs, would be interesting to see the stats on the Chihyu then.0 -
verdant shell doesnt change the pets defenses, neither do other class buffs.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
vixter (101 Heavy Veno) ~ TT farmer
Peachie (102 Mystic) ~ Main character0 -
Maithal - Harshlands wrote: »I noticed in the Screen shot of the Devil Chihyu that you did not have Verdant Shell on, can you do another one with the shell on and then can you do a third with, your buff, BM Bell, Barb HP buff and full Cleric buffs, would be interesting to see the stats on the Chihyu then.
Yeah, as Vixter said, buffs don't change summon stats
. It'd be nice if they did, but then I suppose with R9 the pets might be OP :P. 0 -
You'd have a better argument if you just stuck to "I like mystics, we should be more awesome, and better summoners than the summoner class with anything short of the expensive CS pets".
what? theres ALOT more to venos then just there pets.... mystics on the other hands? they have 2 skill trees dedicated entirely to pets. 1 skill tree dedicated entirely to support. and 1 small skill tree for atking. and idk if u ever played a mystic, but the only 2 atk skills on that tree even worth mention is thicket, absorbed soul, and bramble tornado. the rest are pets.
so as you can see, a mysti is heavily relieant on pets for both debuffing and DDing/tanking. a veno only needs a pet to tank.
so making mystic pets a bit more powerful then veno pets is not that far fetched of an idea. unless u fail that hard as a veno and relie on your pet for everything that you do and dont know what fox form/purge is.
again, the main reason venos use pets is simply to tank mobs and do a bit of extra DDing. now compare that to mystic pets that depend on pets to debuff+DD+tank+support+etc etc.0 -
Wolfixxxx - Lost City wrote: »the only 2 atk skills on that tree even worth mention is thicket, absorbed soul, and bramble tornado.
> 2 atk skills
> thicket, absorbed soul, and bramble tornado
> 2
> 3
Wut?
Besides, while NV isn't that powerful, it's still the classes spam spell, and it amps AS. Swirling Mist helps add a little more DPS to our attacks. And Gale Force, while it's chance to seal/freeze is fairly low, is a non-2spark AoE (and a fairly decent powered one at that), which are never useless.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Heavy Cash Shopping is the difference between understanding simple game mechanics at level 30, or level 101.0 -
Umivee - Dreamweaver wrote: »I don't like that whole "I'm better than you" argument.
Saying that their summons should be greater period over any other pet that most venos use anyway.. is just saying "Please reroll a Mystic, you are gonna suck at the end anyway."
Who's gonna purge on command now? Or do people not worry about purging in anything anymore?
My opinion; its the circumstance where the class is used that'll prove its worth.
Purging makes a difference, nonetheless. Whatever the situation is, if the boss can buff itself, purge saves a lot of time.Renza - Raging Tide wrote: »Perhaps that explains why your not pet reliant? or you were just pro enough to play a veno in the early stages with your pet stowed, somehow.
I've used a veno for a hell of a long time my self, PW-MY, on harshlands and on RT and there definitely not reccomended to be in PvE not using your pet to the best of its ability's, the whole point of the veno in pve especially is to use the pet, perhaps not near end game with a **** load of -cast gear, but definitely earlyer on, you would have to be an ego fool to even try prove otherwise.
I still stand by the fact that as a mystic you don't even need the pet, which is basicly true, you don't, even if i didn't use absorb soul, i can get natures vengeance on a mob 3-4 times before it starts casting on me, use bramble tornado to repulse it back along with extra damage, hit it a couple more times and its dead and there we go, easy kill on a mob without being touched, if your a veno, your always going to get hit, hence my point a veno is more reliant on the pet, I'm not talking about whos got more chance of being pwned.
I did not have any channeling gear until late 6x, and I'm still fine in PVE without my pet. Fox form + bramble + leech enough enables me to kill monsters easily and recover some HP (even if I miss often). I'm just saying how venos don't have to be pet reliant. It's how you play the class. Sure, I can't kill bosses without pets but normal mobs, a mix of fox form and human form does the trick. Plus even without channeling gear, I still pull aggro away from my pet so I barely had any uses for it (asides from debuffing, etc.). So I don't think it's anything egotistical, but rather my own point of view.
Plus, metabolic boost, soul transfusion and nature's grace helps venos a lot. All you need is a little bit of timing.
In comparison to mystics, as I mentioned, their pets are mostly for support, extra DD compared to being tanks. Plus it doesn't matter if you get hit, as long as it doesn't 1-shot you, lol.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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