Sage vs. Demon
Comments
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Mrvate - Heavens Tear wrote: »To only pick out one thing I disagree with because I don't want to type that much. Sage magic shell is useless... the time spent casting the skill negates pretty much any benefit. I hear ppl go sage specifically for that skill, and it honestly makes me cry a little inside.
+1 Very much agreed.Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
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"Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray0 -
Honestly Furries with every post you're making less and less sense, play cleric a bit more and then post since you're wrong in almost everything you say.
No, demon spirit's gift wont make your IH stronger than sage IH.
No, demon spirit's gift wont make you do 150% more damage.
No, sage magic shell isnt most useful skill.
No, wellspring doesnt give you chi fast enough (its only 12 chi instead of 10....actually sage will make chi faster with it than demon)
No, magic shell doesnt give you chi fast enough...especially considering mana cost.
Reaserch a bit and then post or at least lvl your cleric.
why dont you actually READ what demon spirits gift does...in addition to the 30 min 70% buff it gives you 10 seconds of +150% additional magic attack.
just as sage magic shells gives 10 sec of 20% increased channeling, which is pretty damn close to the 15 sec of 25% increase channeling demon spark gives. if your saying that's useless your crazy.Killing level 80's with a lvl 60 is a lot more fun than killing level 90's with a level 100.0 -
Increase the target's weapon magic attack bonus by 70%Furries - Dreamweaver wrote: »why dont you actually READ what sage spirits gift does...in addition to the 30 min 70% buff it gives you 10 seconds of +150% additional magic attack.
for 30 minutes and grants the caster 900 MP over 15 seconds.
Sage version grants the caster 900 MP over 15 seconds.
Here you go :P
You meant demon and its actually 1h buff not 30min and yes it gives you 150% additional magic attack...but thats not even close to 150% more damage.....even 3rd spark dont do additional 150% damage.Furries - Dreamweaver wrote: »just as sage magic shells gives 10 sec of 20% increased channeling, which is pretty damn close to the 15 sec of 25% increase channeling demon spark gives. if your saying that's useless your crazy.Mrvate - Heavens Tear wrote: »To only pick out one thing I disagree with because I don't want to type that much. Sage magic shell is useless... the time spent casting the skill negates pretty much any benefit. I hear ppl go sage specifically for that skill, and it honestly makes me cry a little inside.0 -
As someone who has two clerics, this one taking both the sage and demon path (thank you celestial fairy), you are highly misguided.Honestly Furries with every post you're making less and less sense, play cleric a bit more and then post since you're wrong in almost everything you say.
No, demon spirit's gift wont make your IH stronger than sage IH.
No, demon spirit's gift wont make you do 150% more damage.
No, sage magic shell isnt most useful skill.
No, wellspring doesnt give you chi fast enough (its only 12 chi instead of 10....actually sage will make chi faster with it than demon)
No, magic shell doesnt give you chi fast enough...especially considering mana cost.
Reaserch a bit and then post or at least lvl your cleric.
Yes demon SG will make you do 150% more damage but it's obviously not stacked on buffs, and it's treated much like the sage VS/demon SOR 100% phys defense and scaled, as any person who pays attention to magic attack "before" and "after" the buff would tell you.
Sage will not make chi faster, if by chi you mean a full three sparks, even with sage WS than demon with demon VS/MS. The gains by simply spamming VS/MS is around par to sage WS, then count the chi bonus one has a chance to get, which far surpasses sage WS. The only truth here is that it consumes a good amount of MP.0 -
I see some hilarious reasons for skill choice.
Its already fail right there if pple are mentioning CHI as any of the reasons to choose demon or sage. Anyone who hasnt 'noob leveled' up knows that in high levels, clerics 90% of the time have chi. In my 2 and a half years of playing i have only stumbled upon a handful of incidents when chi was scarce for purify/shell/whatever etc.
sage IH: "Sage IH give target 40-45% heal." (whichever it is)
demon IH: "Demon IH gives 35% heal and gives the target a lv20 mana pot per"
yes a lv20 mana pot cures 330mp.
i dunno >.> tbh, personally, mentioning IH demon as a reason to choose is somewhat embarrassing. (makes u sound kinda cheapo over a noob level pot)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
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...its actually 1h buff not 30min and yes it gives you 150% additional magic attack...
Huh? No, it's the 30 minute buff that has the +150% proc...Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
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"Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray0 -
I think he was getting at the fact that when you get your buffs to demon/sage they last 1 hour instead of 30min.0
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Mrvate - Heavens Tear wrote: »I think he was getting at the fact that when you get your buffs to demon/sage they last 1 hour instead of 30min.
Oops, I misunderstood him. Mea culpa.Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
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"Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray0 -
The cleric on my acct is sage.. but really was only intended for pve. Since then I've been playing with it in pvp a bit, and just figured I'd say what I've noticed. So the skills that really mattered to me were purify, silent seal, and res. When I was in some group pvp, I really wish I had sage purify.. as its one of the things I use more than anything. Doesn't matter how many heals you give someone.. purifying control skills/debuffs/amps etc are almost always going to be more effective way to keep them alive. They have charms and hp pots to keep them alive.. but the only way to self purify control skills is faith.. which isn't able to be spammed. I'm not saying I don't heal as well, but purify a stun so someone can start dropping or take a few steps back.. or use an apoth is my first priority. I've had times where I purify a stun, then like a split second later they get occulted.. gawd I wished I'd had lvl 11 purify for a situation like that. Also had times when I'm trying to keep more than one person alive where they both need a purify.. and sage version would be excellent for those situations.
When I first got silent seal, I figured the sage version would always be better. In group pvp I was using it to keep melees away from me and stop opponents from running.. so longer duration + me never atking meant sage was by far superior. When I started to do some 1v1s.. that half damage **** is annoying as hell.. and I generally just skipped the purify so I could get a couple skills off at least (I hate that silent seal has different lengths.. so you don't know how much time you have before they are on your *** again). So for a skill like this, silent imo is better for group pvp where you are all support, and demon would be better in 1v1 pk.
The last important skill was res. I thought sage res would be fantabulous in pve and TW because you could do it without really exposing yourself.. I still don't have this skill but seemed like it'd be fun. I realized that if the cleric needed that extra range to get the res off.. you'd probably be ressing right in the middle of the enemy.. so not quite as useful as I'd hoped. I think demon has almost a different use being that it is so fast.. you can res in the heat of the battle because you can get it off so quickly. Both res's are really good, but I'd probably go for demon just because it has so many more uses.
I don't think you can go wrong either way.. its just a different style of playing :PYoutube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
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Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »
sage IH: "Sage IH give target 40-45% heal." (whichever it is)
demon IH: "Demon IH gives 35% heal and gives the target a lv20 mana pot per"
yes a lv20 mana pot cures 330mp.
i dunno >.> tbh, personally, mentioning IH demon as a reason to choose is somewhat embarrassing. (makes u sound kinda cheapo over a noob level pot)
it might not sound like much but you have to take into account when im tanking i usually have 5 ih stacked, which, with demon ih equals 100 mp per second. that's nothing to scoff at...Killing level 80's with a lvl 60 is a lot more fun than killing level 90's with a level 100.0 -
+1Furries - Dreamweaver wrote: »it might not sound like much but you have to take into account when im tanking i usually have 5 ih stacked, which, with demon ih equals 100 mp per second. that's nothing to scoff at...
20 MP pot that stacks is really helps other spamming skills0 -
thats usually the mindset of someone whos tries to cheap out as much as they can, with as little effort as possibleFurries - Dreamweaver wrote: »it might not sound like much but you have to take into account when im tanking i usually have 5 ih stacked, which, with demon ih equals 100 mp per second. that's nothing to scoff at...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
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Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »thats usually the mindset of someone whos tries to cheap out as much as they can, with as little effort as possible
so you cant find any flaws in my statement so your going to attack ME.
Smooth...
fail troll is fail...b:byeKilling level 80's with a lvl 60 is a lot more fun than killing level 90's with a level 100.0 -
the flaw in your argument is that:
1) 10% healing difference is a difference
2)you want the cleric to waste 90+ mana/sec so you can regenerate 100mana/sec.
considering that you dont really need 100mana/sec it would be cheaper if the cleric gave you the mana pots. but nobody is cheap enough to ask for mana pots instead of demon IH, right?
all in all: if you just want mana from lvl11 IH, just ask for mana pots and a lvl10 IH.
if 10% more healing power doesnt make a difference, 5% isnt great either.you only purge once #yopo0 -
PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »the flaw in your argument is that:
1) 10% healing difference is a difference
2)you want the cleric to waste 90+ mana/sec so you can regenerate 100mana/sec.
considering that you dont really need 100mana/sec it would be cheaper if the cleric gave you the mana pots. but nobody is cheap enough to ask for mana pots instead of demon IH, right?
all in all: if you just want mana from lvl11 IH, just ask for mana pots and a lvl10 IH.
if 10% more healing power doesnt make a difference, 5% isnt great either.
and the flaw in your argument is
demon ih costs as much as sage ih does.
and demon ih costs 1/4th the mana of sage ih or 1/3 the mana of lvl 10 ih when selfcast.
idk about you my when i play my cleric i selfcast ih quite a bit.
and idk why im either bothering to you explain these errors of you logic when your posting form a lvl 9 barb. who starting playing less than month ago.
And if you did have any experience with the game and a higher lvl char the only logical reason why would post from it is you are spamming and you dont want to get your main banned or you already got ur main banned and had to start over.
so dont waste my time...Killing level 80's with a lvl 60 is a lot more fun than killing level 90's with a level 100.0 -
I agree with this, except there's been some different views of sage IH in terms of the %. Nobody should take demon path for demon IH. If lvl 11 IH is that much a high priority go with sage IH and sage SG for healing MP.Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »I see some hilarious reasons for skill choice.
Its already fail right there if pple are mentioning CHI as any of the reasons to choose demon or sage. Anyone who hasnt 'noob leveled' up knows that in high levels, clerics 90% of the time have chi. In my 2 and a half years of playing i have only stumbled upon a handful of incidents when chi was scarce for purify/shell/whatever etc.
sage IH: "Sage IH give target 40-45% heal." (whichever it is)
demon IH: "Demon IH gives 35% heal and gives the target a lv20 mana pot per"
yes a lv20 mana pot cures 330mp.
i dunno >.> tbh, personally, mentioning IH demon as a reason to choose is somewhat embarrassing. (makes u sound kinda cheapo over a noob level pot)
That being said, almost nobody in the last, oh, 6 months, has even uttered a peep about the fact that my cleric has had demon IH, especially any barbs or BM's that I'd be healing. If one wants recognition from that skill, they are in for a surprise.0 -
Dont blame me if you take things personally, i specifically didnt point a finger at you. You merely assumed that because you unconsciously saw connections with what i posted and yourself.Furries - Dreamweaver wrote: »so you cant find any flaws in my statement so your going to attack ME.
Smooth...
fail troll is fail...b:bye
dont call pple trolls b:bye
your the only one whos attacking someone here
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Furries - Dreamweaver wrote: »and the flaw in your argument is
demon ih costs as much as sage ih does.
i was comparing demon ih vs lvl10 ih.
demon ih offers mana and 5% more heal.
if u say that 10% more is pointless then surely 5% cant be much either.
the mana bonus compared to the mana cost doesnt look good, and even if self cast it's 100m.
so, my argument was, if you want to save mana, keep ur ih at lvl10. 15mil (at least) is 25,000 herbs = 125mil mana = 1.25mil self casted IH. that's over 1 year of spamming IH for 2h each day.
all in all, yes it gives mana. but, especially pvp-wise, mana is not really an issue and definitely not something i would base my culti on, imo.
/ignore ad homimemyou only purge once #yopo0 -
I'm fullsupport Cleric and went Demon. The quick revive is just useful in any situations. It saves time and trouble. For example, in FCC, Barb was lagging during magic pull and died. I quickly revived him and immediately set up BB. BM came to stun mobs, Barb revived and no squad wipe. Yay! Or, Wizard started to AoE too early at Dragoons in FCC and died. I quickly revived him and he was happy because he still got the exp for Dragoons (thanks to the quick revive). Demon Revive is one of the best reasons to go Demon. If you're fullsupport like me, you probably like to make your squad happy... just like me.
Also, melees (especially Barbs) LOOOOOOOOVVVEEEE my Demon IH. Not effective on magic classes, because it only heals 300 mana, but I can keep melee classes' mana on max all the time. People love it, seriously. They really love these 2 skills, but my favorite is Demon Chromatic, it heals ALOT. Stream gives a nice buff too so I can DD a bit, less healing. xD Demon Chromatic and Stream are way better than the Sage ones. I also got Wellspring for the lulz, but it's not as good as the Sage one, that's the only good Sage healing skill... I didn't bother getting attack skills, because I spend 99% of my life in squads. xD Purehearted is lvl1, not many Clerics use that skill... But yeah, I love being Demon and people love me for being Demon. b:laugh
This was helpful because it allowed me to learn about the different demon skills, thanks!0 -
I'm fullsupport Cleric and went Demon. The quick revive is just useful in any situations. It saves time and trouble. For example, in FCC, Barb was lagging during magic pull and died. I quickly revived him and immediately set up BB. BM came to stun mobs, Barb revived and no squad wipe. Yay! Or, Wizard started to AoE too early at Dragoons in FCC and died. I quickly revived him and he was happy because he still got the exp for Dragoons (thanks to the quick revive). Demon Revive is one of the best reasons to go Demon. If you're fullsupport like me, you probably like to make your squad happy... just like me.
Also, melees (especially Barbs) LOOOOOOOOVVVEEEE my Demon IH. Not effective on magic classes, because it only heals 300 mana, but I can keep melee classes' mana on max all the time. People love it, seriously. They really love these 2 skills, but my favorite is Demon Chromatic, it heals ALOT. Stream gives a nice buff too so I can DD a bit, less healing. xD Demon Chromatic and Stream are way better than the Sage ones. I also got Wellspring for the lulz, but it's not as good as the Sage one, that's the only good Sage healing skill... I didn't bother getting attack skills, because I spend 99% of my life in squads. xD Purehearted is lvl1, not many Clerics use that skill... But yeah, I love being Demon and people love me for being Demon. b:laugh
This.
My cleric went demon too. I wouldn't necessarily say that Sage has no good skills. It does irritate me when people badmouth demon clerics or say that demon is only for pvp though. Like.. I TW, but other than that, I don't pk at all. lol. My pk count is from the forced rooms in cube of fate. b:chuckle It's all about playing style and what feels better for you, but I love being demon.
The channeling time on revive is way too long, and demon revive has saved me and the squad in so many situations. Doing a TT one time with kinda bad aoe. Tank died, and then a DD died, but we lived and finished the boss because I was able to revive them practically immediately. If I hadn't had demon revive, I probably would've got aoed, other DDs would've went down before I could get the tank up, I would've pulled aggro, and then squad wipe. So the -chan on demon revive is a huge help. People are constantly commenting on how "quick" my revive is, and how I have good timing. b:laugh
People love my demon IH too. I tend to agree with them. XD When I have to spam it on myself, it's nice. People can say what they want about sage being support and demon being pk, but it's wrong. Demons are support clerics too, or tanks wouldn't want me around.JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »I agree with this, except there's been some different views of sage IH in terms of the %. Nobody should take demon path for demon IH. If lvl 11 IH is that much a high priority go with sage IH and sage SG for healing MP.
That being said, almost nobody in the last, oh, 6 months, has even uttered a peep about the fact that my cleric has had demon IH, especially any barbs or BM's that I'd be healing. If one wants recognition from that skill, they are in for a surprise.
You have squads that don't pay attention to their mana, or you have squads that don't care. I'm constantly getting complimented for having demon IH, so that's just you. b:shutup
I didn't take demon path simply for IH, but the assumption that people are "in for a surprise" if they expect recognition is so false. lol. Sins, BMs, and barbs always point out that I have demon IH. Hell, mage classes have noticed before too despite the fact that it barely heals any mana for them.0 -
There is only one choice for cleric, Demon.
10% extra heal on sage IH is not noticeable. Period.0 -
Think you could pass along who the people complimenting you are?Astaeria - Heavens Tear wrote: »This.
My cleric went demon too. I wouldn't necessarily say that Sage has no good skills. It does irritate me when people badmouth demon clerics or say that demon is only for pvp though. Like.. I TW, but other than that, I don't pk at all. lol. My pk count is from the forced rooms in cube of fate. b:chuckle It's all about playing style and what feels better for you, but I love being demon.
The channeling time on revive is way too long, and demon revive has saved me and the squad in so many situations. Doing a TT one time with kinda bad aoe. Tank died, and then a DD died, but we lived and finished the boss because I was able to revive them practically immediately. If I hadn't had demon revive, I probably would've got aoed, other DDs would've went down before I could get the tank up, I would've pulled aggro, and then squad wipe. So the -chan on demon revive is a huge help. People are constantly commenting on how "quick" my revive is, and how I have good timing. b:laugh
People love my demon IH too. I tend to agree with them. XD When I have to spam it on myself, it's nice. People can say what they want about sage being support and demon being pk, but it's wrong. Demons are support clerics too, or tanks wouldn't want me around.
You have squads that don't pay attention to their mana, or you have squads that don't care. I'm constantly getting complimented for having demon IH, so that's just you. b:shutup
I didn't take demon path simply for IH, but the assumption that people are "in for a surprise" if they expect recognition is so false. lol. Sins, BMs, and barbs always point out that I have demon IH. Hell, mage classes have noticed before too despite the fact that it barely heals any mana for them.
Didn't matter the squad.. FF, Nirvana, BH, only a couple people ever noticed without anything being said to hint them. Same thing also happened to my wife, who had demon IH for a few weeks long than myself, both of which being long before you ever even went demon. Can't merely be us.
If they are always pointing it out than surely you won't have issue with some evidence. 0 -
JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »Think you could pass along who the people complimenting you are?
Didn't matter the squad.. FF, Nirvana, BH, only a couple people ever noticed without anything being said to hint them. Same thing also happened to my wife, who had demon IH for a few weeks long than myself, both of which being long before you ever even went demon. Can't merely be us.
If they are always pointing it out than surely you won't have issue with some evidence.
<< Compliments my demon clerics regularly. I
demon IH. Its mana heals aren't much but when you only have 1800 mp it's basically like a delta aura. As long as you're being healed your mp doesn't run dry.
I just made a post on how the +10% heal on sage IH actually gives sages about 15-25% more heal than demon IH, but I agree with Saturday, It's really not noticable. If I feel their is a lack of heal I normally blame the weapon or the amount of vitality a cleric has, not their culti. In fact the majority of the time its sage clerics that seem to have weaker heals, even though the evidence points to them having the stronger ability. You can never tell if a sage cleric even has lvl 11 IH, whereas demon you can always tell. Maybe the general rule should be if you plan on having alot of vit or a weaker weapon go sage to compensate for lower heals.
The other thing is bloodpaint. It doesn't replace a cleric, but it takes all the pressure off of needing strong heals in most cases. Clerics are still needed for buffs but for most mobs they just need to supplement heal and can be more DDers. Maybe toss an IH on after the mobs dead to restore health to full before the next set of mobs. To maximize bloodpaint effect I might spam skills/aoe. If I'm doing this and run out of mana, I die from lack of paint heals. I can use mp pots, of course, but sometimes I don't notice its running so low until too late. With Demon IH I get full mana for skill spamming and keeping paint heals up, and I get supplemental healing. That's probably one of the two best situations for demon IH to shine.
The other situations is some barbs need to spam aggro skills to keep aggro on them. Hp is never the problem for them but keeping aggro is and when you only have 1400 mp as a barb you are literally spamming pots just to keep aggro with your hp bar never budging. Demon IH solves this problem and and can cause aggro switch if the barb can't keep up.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Sage IH is definitely noticeable over level 10 and demon lvl 11 IH. This I know first hand as a BM and a barb. Sage IH is a pretty huge bump in heals.Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »<< Compliments my demon clerics regularly. I demon IH. Its mana heals aren't much but when you only have 1800 mp it's basically like a delta aura. As long as you're being healed your mp doesn't run dry.
I just made a post on how the +10% heal on sage IH actually gives sages about 15-25% more heal than demon IH, but I agree with Saturday, It's really not noticable. If I feel their is a lack of heal I normally blame the weapon or the amount of vitality a cleric has, not their culti. In fact the majority of the time its sage clerics that seem to have weaker heals, even though the evidence points to them having the stronger ability. You can never tell if a sage cleric even has lvl 11 IH, whereas demon you can always tell. Maybe the general rule should be if you plan on having alot of vit or a weaker weapon go sage to compensate for lower heals.
The other thing is bloodpaint. It doesn't replace a cleric, but it takes all the pressure off of needing strong heals in most cases. Clerics are still needed for buffs but for most mobs they just need to supplement heal and can be more DDers. Maybe toss an IH on after the mobs dead to restore health to full before the next set of mobs. To maximize bloodpaint effect I might spam skills/aoe. If I'm doing this and run out of mana, I die from lack of paint heals. I can use mp pots, of course, but sometimes I don't notice its running so low until too late. With Demon IH I get full mana for skill spamming and keeping paint heals up, and I get supplemental healing. That's probably one of the two best situations for demon IH to shine.
The other situations is some barbs need to spam aggro skills to keep aggro on them. Hp is never the problem for them but keeping aggro is and when you only have 1400 mp as a barb you are literally spamming pots just to keep aggro with your hp bar never budging. Demon IH solves this problem and and can cause aggro switch if the barb can't keep up.
As for knowing about demon IH, I give you the benefit of the doubt because you are posting here, therefore far more likely to be in tune with cleric issues, but I did wish that the appreciation you exhibited was more commonplace. b:victory It was something I noticed rather quickly on my barb and BM. Hell, when bored, I used to randomly go to lowbie areas, find a wizard or psychic, and just demon IH them for a bit.0 -
I can usually spot somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about when it comes to demon/sage clerics.
Convo usually starts out with : " Sage rezz is only usefull in HH"
After that I don't know what they say, because I tune them out b:shocked0 -
those sage IH heals are only noticable when your either paying attention or you havnt convinced yourself already that its otherwise.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
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